SPOILERS! Mysteries and Conspiracies of Pokemon

[DrPumpkinz]

Corphish's pokedex entry from Ruby reads:

"Corphish were originally foreign Pokémon that were imported as pets. They eventually turned up in the wild. This Pokémon is very hardy and has greatly increased its population."

This detail of Corphish not being native to Hoenn is a rather interesting one, and the Bulbapedia trivia notes it as the first instance of an exotic Pokemon in the series (although I would argue that stuff like Clefairy being rumored to come from the moon should count). But this begs the question: where is Corphish from?

Pokemon's tendency to reuse Pokedex entries makes this a weirder question than you might think, because while we don't know for sure where Corphish is from, we know for sure where it isn't from. FireRed and LeafGreen, HeartGold and SoulSilver, Ultra Sun, Shield, and Scarlet all state it as being invasive, so we know it's not from Kanto, Johto, Alola, Galar, or Kitikami. It also doesn't appear in Paldea so it's probably not from there either.

The regions where it appears and isn't stated to be invasive are: Sinnoh, Unova, and Kalos. Sinnoh seems unlikely as its place of origin, as it's not included in either Sinnoh Pokedex and doesn't appear at all in Hisui. Unova and Kalos both have some issues (being absent from BW1 outside of White Forest, not being found in ZA despite Lumiose being in Central Kalos) but they're our most compelling options so far, and frankly Corphish and Crawdaunt's two possible regions of origin being the United States and France seems fitting for an animal so iconic to Louisiana.

 

[Genuine_Angus_B33F]

This detail of Corphish not being native to Hoenn is a rather interesting one, and the Bulbapedia trivia notes it as the first instance of an exotic Pokemon in the series

That's extremely funny to me given the Gen 1 Safari Zone mons, Gen 2 Murkrow / Slugma / Houndour etc, mons only obtainable by trade / gift in both games, and so on. I feel like it would be super fun to wonder about the region of origin for mons like the Nidoran, Togepi, and Riolu. Y'know prior to Gen 5 when they just completely fucking gave up on consistency of any kind in this regard

 

[Hugin]

Corphish's pokedex entry from Ruby reads:

"Corphish were originally foreign Pokémon that were imported as pets. They eventually turned up in the wild. This Pokémon is very hardy and has greatly increased its population."

This detail of Corphish not being native to Hoenn is a rather interesting one, and the Bulbapedia trivia notes it as the first instance of an exotic Pokemon in the series (although I would argue that stuff like Clefairy being rumored to come from the moon should count). But this begs the question: where is Corphish from?

Pokemon's tendency to reuse Pokedex entries makes this a weirder question than you might think, because while we don't know for sure where Corphish is from, we know for sure where it isn't from. FireRed and LeafGreen, HeartGold and SoulSilver, Ultra Sun, Shield, and Scarlet all state it as being invasive, so we know it's not from Kanto, Johto, Alola, Galar, or Kitikami. It also doesn't appear in Paldea so it's probably not from there either.

The regions where it appears and isn't stated to be invasive are: Sinnoh, Unova, and Kalos. Sinnoh seems unlikely as its place of origin, as it's not included in either Sinnoh Pokedex and doesn't appear at all in Hisui. Unova and Kalos both have some issues (being absent from BW1 outside of White Forest, not being found in ZA despite Lumiose being in Central Kalos) but they're our most compelling options so far, and frankly Corphish and Crawdaunt's two possible regions of origin being the United States and France seems fitting for an animal so iconic to Louisiana.

This would make for an absolutely hilarious regional variant. Make a Water/Fighting(or whatever) version in a region and name it the default, while all other Corphish are labeled Corphish-H.

 

[Esserise]

I feel like it would be super fun to wonder about the region of origin for mons like the Nidoran

I always kinda assumed that the Safari Zone wasn’t necessarily all exotic species. The Nidoran family can also appear on Route 22 in the original games, and then on several more routes in Yellow, so they could just be Kantonian. If not that, then Johto would likely be the prime candidate since they can show up there in the wild with no special conditions.

Togepi

This one is interesting because they gave Prof. Elm a bit of dialogue in HGSS explicitly stating that Togepi isn’t found in Johto as far as he knows.

The only other places where Togepi appears in the first four generations are as a gifted egg on the Sevii Islands in FRLG and in Eterna City from Cynthia in Platinum, and then in the wild on Sinnoh’s Route 230 via Poké Radar in DPP. If I had to pick a native region based on that, I’d probably say Sinnoh.

and Riolu. Y'know prior to Gen 5 when they just completely fucking gave up on consistency of any kind in this regard

To be fair, and this is where Riolu runs into a wall, if we assume that nothing after Gen 4 is worth counting by virtue of them having given up on consistency (not that I think they were ever super consistent about this before), then the options literally boil down to just Kanto, Johto, Hoenn, Sinnoh, or “a far-off region we’ve never heard of.” Which strikes me as a lot less interesting with regard to speculation — I think the exercise is made far more creatively viable by embracing the inconsistencies and having fun trying to navigate those.

 

[Genuine_Angus_B33F]

The only other places where Togepi appears in the first four generations are as a gifted egg on the Sevii Islands in FRLG and in Eterna City from Cynthia in Platinum, and then in the wild on Sinnoh’s Route 230 via Poké Radar in DPP. If I had to pick a native region based on that, I’d probably say Sinnoh.

To be fair, and this is where Riolu runs into a wall, if we assume that nothing after Gen 4 is worth counting by virtue of them having given up on consistency (not that I think they were ever super consistent about this before), then the options literally boil down to just Kanto, Johto, Hoenn, Sinnoh, or “a far-off region we’ve never heard of.” Which strikes me as a lot less interesting with regard to speculation — I think the exercise is made far more creatively viable by embracing the inconsistencies and having fun trying to navigate those.

When I say Gen 5 gave up on the idea, that thought mostly comes down to the tradeoff between having a consistent thematic reasoning for the presence of something implied to be exceedingly rare vs just making everything easy to access naturally in the name of fan service.

In Gen 2-4, Togepi and Riolu are both pretty strongly implied to be rare and unavailable in the wild through normal means. Togepi does have its appearance on the Pokeradar in DPPt - I totally forgot about that and assumed it was a part of the Trophy Garden which would be a much more solid explanation - and Riolu is found in HGSS in the Safari Zone through very obscure item placement combos. Both of those two encounter methods are already meant to provide a lore light and option dense way of expanding the number of obtainable pokemon in the game, a fan service first function basically. You could reasonably dismiss those as situations where the game is bending over backwards to find an excuse to make the options available, and frankly that's not a bad thing for anyone not being hyper analytical about lore. But it's clearly a very purposeful bending of an established rule - Togepi and Riolu are rare enough that they can't be found in the wild through normal means.

When you get to BW1, you get the devs committing to a very bold choice in making only new pokemon available for the main story, and then backing up that choice in lore by... having all the older pokemon shuffle in from backstage as though they were just waiting in the wings for you to flip a story flag. The entire right upper portion of Unova, the nooks and crannies of places you've already seen like the Dreamyard and Challengers Cave, hell fishing was actually prohibited the entire time so you didn't accidentally stumble upon a Magikarp or a Dratini at Dragonspire Tower which was always there!!! I understand the need for fan service with everything (and let's be clear having played the games as they were released I am extremely thankful we did not live in the timeline where the Dream World was the only way to access older pokemon) but the way it was executed, the removal of older pokemon from the game was rendered a gimmick, and any narrative / flavor consistency in where pokemon came from kind of flew out the window.

By BW2, where Riolu used to be enigma from places unknown, they're now just wherever in the grass at a fairly low rate. Sure, the answer we were really pining for on the origin of Riolu wasn't that they were from some faraway place, or even that they were from the permanently arid and sandy desert ruins directly adjacent to New York City, they just vibe with... the farm. I hadn't mentioned it before, but this also tracks with Eevee being available early in BW2, in the wild no less, and subsequently being less and less interesting for being constantly present. The way the presentation of these pokemon is changed is so blatantly altered by factors like popularity, things far outside the desire to create an ecology or write a compelling world, it's hard to continue investing in that fiction.

It's not just the rare stuff either. By the time you get to XY, you have The Largest Regional Dex Known To Man, which just stuffs in as much as humanly possible, and then you get the relatively secluded and isolated archipelago of Alola which just so happens to contain ~70% of the pokemon that had ever existed at the time within its ecology, a rate further games have tended to reach when accounting for DLC. When you ask the question "where is X Pokemon originally from?" and you use game encounter data from Gen 5+ to answer that question, the answer seems to be that they're everywhere, all the time, except when they didn't yet exist in our world. There's fun to be had in speculation, but with game data often having to be parsed through a layer of considering how convenient it was meant to be to access the pokemon in the game at all, it's all fanfiction with a somewhat unstable basis. (I love fanfiction! That's not a diss!)

 

[Ironmage]

Postgames have been doing that since we've had postgames. Emerald had the off to the side underground bit with Ditto and whatever was supposed to happen with Altering Cave alongside the Safari Zone expansion. DPPt is honestly probably the most egregious: In addition to outbreaks now containing mons not in the regional dex, the poke radar, and locking the Super Rod to the postgame, there's also the dual-slot mode. Why is this section of grass that you've already been through before suddenly spawning Zangoose? Because of a story flag and fourth wall shenanigans. HGSS locking encounters behind what music you're playing is probably a flavour improvement.

 

[12-XVI]

This would make for an absolutely hilarious regional variant. Make a Water/Fighting(or whatever) version in a region and name it the default, while all other Corphish are labeled Corphish-H.

Hisuian Corpfish?

 

[R_N]

Hisuian Corpfish?

Hoennian, I assume

Or as the fandom would rush to call it, Corphish-Ho

 

[DaddyBuzzwole]

so as we all know, legends za added a bunch of little worldbuilding tidbits that provide a more realistic and fleshed-out picture of life in a world of pokemon than we've had before. that's nice and all, but why do we never hear anything, in the entire span of the official pokemon ip as far as i can tell, about anyone having a pokemon allergy? i vaguely remember like one mention of some character having a pollen allergy and not being able to go near some grass-type or other but that's not like a pokemon-specific allergy. in the real world, a shit ton of people are allergic to animal fur or dander of some kind. you can hardly swing a cat without hitting someone who's allergic to cats. so why do we hear nothing, among the literal thousands of humans we're introduced to over the span of various canons, about anyone who's allergic to some specific species of pokemon, or a whole category like cat pokemon in general? are human immune systems in this universe somehow better equipped to handle pathogens they don't recognize without causing noticeable symptoms?

 

[Cool Baton]

Allergies exist as Vileplume is known for triggering them. That's maybe not the best example, since everyone has allergic reactions to its pollen — but the fact that it's identified as allergenic and not just some unique trait of Vileplume implies that more normal allergies exist. There's also an anime character who is allergic to Grass powder/spore moves and a manga character with a Grass-type allergy.

 

[BlackButterfree]

Corphish's pokedex entry from Ruby reads:

"Corphish were originally foreign Pokémon that were imported as pets. They eventually turned up in the wild. This Pokémon is very hardy and has greatly increased its population."

This detail of Corphish not being native to Hoenn is a rather interesting one, and the Bulbapedia trivia notes it as the first instance of an exotic Pokemon in the series (although I would argue that stuff like Clefairy being rumored to come from the moon should count). But this begs the question: where is Corphish from?

Pokemon's tendency to reuse Pokedex entries makes this a weirder question than you might think, because while we don't know for sure where Corphish is from, we know for sure where it isn't from. FireRed and LeafGreen, HeartGold and SoulSilver, Ultra Sun, Shield, and Scarlet all state it as being invasive, so we know it's not from Kanto, Johto, Alola, Galar, or Kitikami. It also doesn't appear in Paldea so it's probably not from there either.

The regions where it appears and isn't stated to be invasive are: Sinnoh, Unova, and Kalos. Sinnoh seems unlikely as its place of origin, as it's not included in either Sinnoh Pokedex and doesn't appear at all in Hisui. Unova and Kalos both have some issues (being absent from BW1 outside of White Forest, not being found in ZA despite Lumiose being in Central Kalos) but they're our most compelling options so far, and frankly Corphish and Crawdaunt's two possible regions of origin being the United States and France seems fitting for an animal so iconic to Louisiana.

I definitely understand your reasons for not considering it native to Sinnoh, but IDK I've always considered Corphish as native to Celestic Town. And it should be noted that in Hisui, we actually can't explore the part of Sinnoh that becomes Celestic Town. The closest we can get to there is Cogita's Ancient Retreat, and judging by its position on the map, and proximity to the coastline, I'd actually argue that's Route 210 in the modern day. Specifically, near Grandma Wilma's house, if not the actual plot of land.

 

[chroma_2903]

you know it wasn't until i saw this neat lil thread that it really set in: i am really really happy that game freak didn't lean super hard into the xy ghost girl in za. the only direct reference to it that i remember is the dlc npc dialogue where, at the end of the marshadow quest, the requester remarks if the hex maniac channel was being legit about "that ghostly woman haunting the building on north boulevard". if there's any other direct nods to it, and there may well be, i can't remember them.
there's also the justice dojo. i'm pretty certain that it's located not too far from the building that, in xy, a collective of lumiose residents were trying to turn into a dojo (and that a certain ghostly woman seems to be haunting). the justice dojo also has a pretty prominent figure known for using ghost types in gwynn; while this is almost 100% a coincidence i could be persuaded that it was an added layer of homage to an infamous easter egg like the ghost girl.

i think this is the best way it could have gone! not having the answers to an easter egg turns it from an unsettling, peculiar little detail into something closer to a spooky campfire story. having the details reinforced is a cool way to keep it mysterious. i'm quite grateful that it wasn't turned into the chekov's gun of a one off side quest or something. it would have given more concrete info, maybe, but that kind of defeats the purpose of a creepy easter egg. would have made it a lot less entertaining. good job za!


...and to this day, no one really knows the truth of that strange apparition. it could be anywhere by now; what's keeping it confined to north boulevard? or lumiose? what's stopping it from going wherever it pleases? what's that behind you? so many questions, yet not a single answer...

 

[R_N]

you know it wasn't until i saw this neat lil thread that it really set in: i am really really happy that game freak didn't lean super hard into the xy ghost girl in za. the only direct reference to it that i remember is the dlc npc dialogue where, at the end of the marshadow quest, the requester remarks if the hex maniac channel was being legit about "that ghostly woman haunting the building on north boulevard". if there's any other direct nods to it, and there may well be, i can't remember them.

There is!

Zach: Say, have you heard about the ghost here in
Lumiose?
The story goes that there’s an elevator in a certain
building... Ride it up to the second floor, and as
you get off, a girl suddenly appears behind you
and says, “No, you’re not the one...”
Then she vanishes!
Used to be that I’d hear that story all the time, but
me and my cabbie buddies were saying that we
haven’t heard about it since all the Pokémon
started living here.
Then again, I’ve heard another story these days...
One about a girl who’s somehow riding your cab
without you ever having let her on.
I hear all she says is, “You’re not the one, either...”

But almost no one is going to see it because it's one of several random stories Zach can tell if you specifically take his cab somewhere.

 

[Hugin]

But almost no one is going to see it because it's one of several random stories Zach can tell if you specifically take his cab somewhere.

Here's a mystery: Why do the cabs exist? This is a game with a fairly impressive fast travel system, why are they expecting players to use taxis at all?

 

[R_N]

Here's a mystery: Why do the cabs exist? This is a game with a fairly impressive fast travel system, why are they expecting players to use taxis at all?

Flavor

 

[Esserise]

Here's a mystery: Why do the cabs exist? This is a game with a fairly impressive fast travel system, why are they expecting players to use taxis at all?

It’s an under-advertised benefit and it runs out its usefulness rather quickly, but the cabs can take you to fast-travel points you haven’t manually unlocked yet.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

So it's kind of surprising this has never really occurred to me before, but... it's funny Nincada and Surskit haven't ever really been treated as counterparts in any of the usual ways.

The whole land/sea dichotomy comes up a lot in Hoenn's roster of Pokemon (it's even in the default names of the protagonists - Landon&Marina); and there's a whole bunch of Pokemon who embody both in their design like Armaldo, Cradily, Wailord, Relicanth, Walrein, Pelipper, Ludicolo, Swampert, and Whiscash. And if you look at things that way, Nincada and Surskit have a bit of that going on - both rare Bug-types, one part-Ground, one part-Water, though strangely each loses their unique typing when they evolve (such a missed opportunity, but that's another conversation).

On paper that sounds like they could be version-exclusives or even species Team Magma/Aqua respectively might use and yet... nope. They're not used by counterpart NPCs in the same manner as Solrock/Lunatone, Plusle/Minun, or Seedot/Lotad; they aren't even commented on by NPCs in the way some other Pokemon with evolutionary quirks are, like Combee and Burmy in DPP (actually, come to think of it, does anyone in Hoenn ever comment on Wurmple's evolution method? I have a vague recollection of there being someone in Hoenn who says something to the effect of "my Wurmple evolved into a Cascoon! But my friend's evolved into a Silcoon! I wonder why?" but I may be getting mixed up with a boy who says something similar about Eevee in GSC).

Even though they aren't a version-exclusive pair in RS, several titles in the series have made version-exclusives out of pairings that previously weren't (Caterpie and Weedle, Gulpin and Baltoy, Bagon and Larvitar, Houndour and Elekid) but nope, never happened with these two. Maybe I'm just overthinking their parallels (probably) but it's weird that these two have never been considered a pair when IMO there's every bit as much linking them as, say, Spinarak and Ledyba, and far more than, say, Ekans and Sandshrew. Just struck me as odd, though.

 

[pika pal]

And if you look at that way Nincada and Surskit have a bit of that going on - both rare Bug-types, one part-Ground, one part-Water, though strangely each loses their unique typing when they evolve (such a missed opportunity, but that's another conversation).

Funny thing here is both acquire the same type on their (conventional) evolution by becoming Flying types... like the Hoenn Trio Master vs the Titan Duo.