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Defog: not so useless, after all?

linksage

I apologize if folks here already know about this--I just happened upon it PBR and hadn't seen it ever mentioned before.

For those 2v2 battlers out there, it may not be so important to have one of the few and far between rapid spinner anymore!

Defog also has the following useful effects:
-gets rid of 'mist'
-breaks reflect and light screen barriers (possibly safeguard as well)
-Has the potential to rid yourself of stealth rock and spikes in 2v2 battles; the only negative being lowered evasiveness as well.
 
Unless it's different in 2v2 battles, last I checked, Defog clears the secondary debris that *you* set up.
 
The idea is to use Defog on your partner in 2v2 to get rid of the entry hazards on your field. Of course, it would also get rid of YOUR screens, YOUR Mist, and YOUR Safeguard, but not having to rely on Rapid Spin seems like a decent proposition. (coming from someone with no 2v2 experience)

...Wait, am I understanding it right? The move description is a little misleading.
 
It really isn't worth it. If, somehow, there were two pokemon on the other player's team that could not be hit by Rapid Spin, just use it on your own team member. That's a worst case scenario. Defog always eliminates something helpful for your team.
 
Since SR exists with only 1 turn of Set-up!

Also, since there is alot of switching in 2v2 (Switch in Ground types/Water Absorbers/Flash Fire Users/Flying types, etc.) it seems only worthy that SR would be used in 2v2.

But I see your point that Spikes/TSpikes takes too long to set up.
 
Um...did anyone actually read the 2v2 article that was posted on Smogon? Because it details the fact that switching can be very, very bad in 2v2. And that therefore, less people do it, which means that entry hazards matter less.
 
tgva8889 said:
Um...did anyone actually read the 2v2 article that was posted on Smogon? Because it details the fact that switching can be very, very bad in 2v2. And that therefore, less people do it, which means that entry hazards matter less.
Click to expand...

This and Exploding being the main method of doing anything in 2v2.
 
Why would you want to remove the Stealth Rocks that you set up?

Defog really seems like a waste of a move to me.
 
Thats why People may begin using Perish Song, Immune to Protect, and hits Ghosts. Also capable of KOing all pokemon on the field. Consider Psong.
 
It also forces yourself to switch, and your opponent will likely do the same as well (unless you waste more valuable time trapping them). Basically, you use one turn to do "nothing" at that point, and then later, everyone switches, and all other turns are the same.

I'd use Stealth Rock in 2v2 to nerf Focus Sashers my opponent has in the wings, but that's about it. I wouldn't waste a turn Spinning or Defogging in 2v2 if I could be Protecting or attacking.

I don't find the description of Defog to be misleading at all, it's perfectly clear.
 
...this discussion is actually quite amusing to read. It's obvious that a lot of you have little to no experience in double battles.

Granted you are right that people don't switch much and spikes would be fairly useless (though stealth rock isn't all that uncommon), there's a contradiction. You're concerned defog will blow away things you set up on your opponent, but if you're not setting any entry hazards on your opponent to begin with, it's still a liable way to break annoying barriers should you be lacking a brick-breaker at the time.

And heck, the lowered evasiveness could come in handy as a bonus. It'd at least lower the possibility that you'd get haxed and miss that game-breaking round of stone edge or hydro-pump.

As for explosion and perish song, I've rarely seen those used in 2v2 since this generation.

Perish song might work, but since people tend to leave wobba for last in doubles, celebi (and maybe even its replacement) would be gang banged to a faint before it takes effect, while wobba just kind sits and flails its arms around uselessly for two turns.

Wobba's actually pretty darn pathetic in 2v2; while it's considered uber (by most, anyway) in singles, it's actually laughable to see it used in doubles. It basically turns the match into a 2 to 1 scenario.
 
I agree with you that Defog is not entirely useless in double battles. The evasion drop does make a difference and getting rid of Safeguards will sometimes be useful. However, I'd be hard pressed to fit it onto a team. Sweet Scent is better for the evasion drop because it hits both opponents and Brick Break can take care of Reflect and Light Screen. If I were playing PBR in the Courtyard arena with a chance of fog, I'd consider it.

I've only seen Perish Song used once in doubles, but it was in PBR so I knew it was coming before the battle started. Coincidentally, it was probably the best Pokémon match I've ever had. That's neither here nor there, though.

The main reason I'm posting is to put in my two cents about Wobbuffet in doubles. I'm of the opinion that Wobbuffet should not be consider Uber in singles or doubles, but it is far from worthless in doubles. First of all, there's the deadly Encore/Disable combo. Once an opponent uses a move, Wobbuffet Encores it and its partner Disables it. The target can't switch and has to Struggle until it KOs itself. It's not foolproof because it requires you to let the opponent move first, but it's still very powerful.

Even without this particular combo, Wobbuffet's power to Encore and prevent switching should not be taken lightly. If your Pokémon gets Encored into a stat-up move or something similar, it's dead weight. Even if it gets Encored into a damaging move, it can no longer choose a target for the move. It's very true that switching is less frequent in doubles, but Encore is probably the worst stat problem to have in doubles that can be fixed by switching.
 
Id say its useful because stuff that learns rapid spin may not be as useful in 2v2 as something that uses defog. That said, 2v2 is much more offensive based so im not sure if its that viable.
 
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