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Metagame Champions OU Metagame Discussion

I think people are sleeping on Curse Rest Talk :Feraligatr-Mega:

- HP and Spe Def Investments
- Curse
- Rest + Sleep Talk
- Thrash

Thrash literally becomes a 144 BP Outrage with Dragonize, coming from a base 160 Attack, no need of Attack investments to overkill targets after 1-2 boosts.

Thrash also has the advantage of not locking or confusing yourself when you roll it via sleep talk, so it really is the perfect move in a rest talk set.

Rest Grants Both Status Immunity and Recovery which is very valuable for a Mega Evolution that is locked out of items.

- Dragon Water typing has very few weaknesses (Only Fairy and Dragon)
- the Special Bulk is very respectable with investments
- the physical Bulk is already disgusting after 1 Curse

Only real weakness of this set are :
- Fairy Types which obviously wall it
- Draco Meteor Revenge Killers (Hydreigon, Dragapult...)
- a few Iron Defense Users who can match the set up and go for a first-to-crit battle

Edit : I also considered Facade as an alternative to Thrash but sadly it doesn't work with sleep status.
 
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I think people are sleeping on Curse Rest Talk :Feraligatr-Mega:

- HP and Spe Def Investments
- Curse
- Rest + Sleep Talk
- Thrash

Thrash literally becomes a 144 BP Outrage with Dragonize, coming from a base 160 Attack, no need of Attack investments to overkill targets after 1-2 boosts.

Thrash also has the advantage of not locking or confusing yourself when you roll it via sleep talk, so it really is the perfect move in a rest talk set.

Rest Grants Both Status Immunity and Recovery which is very valuable for a Mega Evolution that is locked out of items.

- Dragon Water typing has very few weaknesses (Only Fairy and Dragon)
- the Special Bulk is very respectable with investments
- the physical Bulk is already disgusting after 1 Curse

Only real weakness of this set are :
- Fairy Types which obviously wall it
- Draco Meteor Revenge Killers (Hydreigon, Dragapult...)
- a few Iron Defense Users who can match the set up and go for a first-to-crit battle

Edit : I also considered Facade as an alternative to Thrash but sadly it doesn't work with sleep status.
I don't know but if you are running 3 status move on a pokemon which is suppose to damage it just feels like a gimmick + fairy type
 
I think Champions needs more Ground types, and I am so sad that GF could not add Swampert into the meta. I get they might be saving the Hoenn starters for future releases, but its profile can help against other meta staples like Garchomp and Slowking-G (still loses to Meganium though )
 
Something I've been curious about as Regulation M-B approaches: How does the Champions OU Council plan to handle varying regulation rulesets?

Assuming some previously released pokemon become illegal under new VGC/BSS rules, will they remain legal in Champions OU?

How about mechanic shifts? We know from pre-release information that different seasons will use different "gimmicks". What happens when Dynamax is in and Mega Evolution is out? Will Champions OU keep Megas available?

If the answer is that Champions OU is going to retain everything that has ever been available in Champions, what really distinguishes it from NatDex in the long run? Is it just movesets?

If the answer is that Champions OU is going to mirror the current constraints of Champions, then what's the plan for managing tiering decisions in an environment that potentially shifts drastically every few months?

Obviously, y'all reserve the right to change your minds, but would be good for the community to know what to expect.

Unrelated, I've been quite enjoying this Mega Lopunny Set:

:xy/lopunny-mega:
Lopunny-Mega @ Lopunnite
Ability: Scrappy
Level: 50
EVs: 32 HP / 4 Atk / 15 Def / 15 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- Drain Punch
- Quick Attack

Mega Lopunny has surprisingly usable bulk, and its speed and attack are high enough that Lopunny doesn't need much investment to pose a threat. 15 Speed EVs with a neutral nature outruns Chomp. 4 Attack EVs + Adamant is sacrificing less than 10% damage compared to 32 EVs with a neutral nature.

The benefit is that you have a much easier time setting up, and after a single SD, you're in a really good position to clean late game, with +2 Quick Attack rocking pretty much anything faster than you for at least 50%.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9championsou-2626617809?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9championsou-2623623503?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9championsou-2626017311
 
Something I've been curious about as Regulation M-B approaches: How does the Champions OU Council plan to handle varying regulation rulesets?

Assuming some previously released pokemon become illegal under new VGC/BSS rules, will they remain legal in Champions OU?

How about mechanic shifts? We know from pre-release information that different seasons will use different "gimmicks". What happens when Dynamax is in and Mega Evolution is out? Will Champions OU keep Megas available?

If the answer is that Champions OU is going to retain everything that has ever been available in Champions, what really distinguishes it from NatDex in the long run? Is it just movesets?

If the answer is that Champions OU is going to mirror the current constraints of Champions, then what's the plan for managing tiering decisions in an environment that potentially shifts drastically every few months?

Obviously, y'all reserve the right to change your minds, but would be good for the community to know what to expect.

Unrelated, I've been quite enjoying this Mega Lopunny Set:

:xy/lopunny-mega:
Lopunny-Mega @ Lopunnite
Ability: Scrappy
Level: 50
EVs: 32 HP / 4 Atk / 15 Def / 15 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- Drain Punch
- Quick Attack

Mega Lopunny has surprisingly usable bulk, and its speed and attack are high enough that Lopunny doesn't need much investment to pose a threat. 15 Speed EVs with a neutral nature outruns Chomp. 4 Attack EVs + Adamant is sacrificing less than 10% damage compared to 32 EVs with a neutral nature.

The benefit is that you have a much easier time setting up, and after a single SD, you're in a really good position to clean late game, with +2 Quick Attack rocking pretty much anything faster than you for at least 50%.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9championsou-2626617809?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9championsou-2623623503?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9championsou-2626017311
This reminds me of a funny Mega Lopunny set I ALMOST ran but came back to reality:
Lopunny-Mega @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
Level: 50
EVs: 32 HP / 13 Atk / 3 Def / 4 SpD / 14 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Facade
- Swords Dance
- Cosmic Power

The idea was to run it kind of like Cosmic Power Clefable and eventually try to sweep with Facade in case you get statused but it never took off. If someone actually tried to make this work that would be hilarious.
 
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Something to note is that Base and Mega Chesnaught have the ability Bulletproof. When Raichu-Y is added to the game, Chesnaught can use Body Press to target Raichu-Y; however, it is a check, not a counter, and here are a few reasons why.

1. M-Raichu-Y can use Thunder over Zap Cannon. Thunder has similar power but a lower paralysis rate, but it has the upside of hitting M-Chesnaught. It can then follow up with an alluring voice. A heavily invested special defense, careful Mega Chesnaught can survive Thunder and can live alluring voice from Modest Raichu Y, but will be incredibly crippled, barring two crits. Imagine if the spread on Chesnaught is more tuned for physical defense, most likely scenario is that Modest Raichu-Y has much better odds of 2HKOing M-Chesnaught.

Relevant Calculations for M-Chesnaught versus Raichu-Y: (Let’s assume that both M-Chesnaught and Raichu-Y have no stat boosts and only invested in specific points, i.e., 2-Point Neutral to 32-Point Careful for -M-Chesnaught)

Modest Raichu-Y vs 2-point neutral investment M-Chesnaught:
32+ SpA Raichu Alluring Voice vs. 32 HP / 2 SpD Chesnaught-Mega: 102-122 (52.3 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
32+ SpA Raichu Thunder vs. 32 HP / 2 SpD Chesnaught-Mega: 53-63 (27.1 - 32.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
32+ SpA Raichu Volt Switch vs. 32 HP / 2 SpD Chesnaught-Mega: 33-40 (16.9 - 20.5%) -- possible 5HKO


32-point investment with Impish & Careful:
32 SpA Raichu Alluring Voice vs. 32 HP / 32 SpD Chesnaught-Mega: 78-92 (40 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
32 SpA Raichu Thunder vs. 32 HP / 32 SpD Chesnaught-Mega: 39-47 (20 - 24.1%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
32 SpA Raichu Volt Switch vs. 32 HP / 32 SpD Chesnaught-Mega: 25-30 (12.8 - 15.3%) -- possible 7HKO
32+ SpA Raichu Alluring Voice vs. 32 HP / 32+ SpD Chesnaught-Mega: 78-92 (40 - 47.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO


Timid Raichu-Y vs 2-point neutral investment M-Chesnaught:
32 SpA Raichu Alluring Voice vs. 32 HP / 2 SpD Chesnaught-Mega: 94-112 (48.2 - 57.4%) -- 90.2% chance to 2HKO
32 SpA Raichu Thunder vs. 32 HP / 2 SpD Chesnaught-Mega: 48-57 (24.6 - 29.2%) -- 99.7% chance to 4HKO
32 SpA Raichu Volt Switch vs. 32 HP / 2 SpD Chesnaught-Mega: 30-36 (15.3 - 18.4%) -- possible 6HKO


2. Boosting Options Raichu has Lightning Rod before evolving to Y. If it gets a SPA boost from an electric move, it can use the move substitute to have a much safer opportunity for Chesnaught, and if your grounds like Garchomp or Excadrill are crippled or fainted, Substitute on Raichu-Y is all the more terrifying. Nasty Plot is Raichu-Y's main way to overcome Chesnaught, as if it can get a Nasty Plot off, it will surely tear a hole through teams as an electric sweeper. +2 Alluring Voice clearly OHKOs both base and mega alike without SPDEF investment, allowing for Raichu to run Timid to help with speed benchmarks against Modest Raichu-Y. If Chesnaught is in while Raichu-Y has boosted up to +2, it's in big trouble, especially if it gets worn down during the course of the game. You need to rely on Scarf Garchomp or Sand Rush Excadrill to outspeed Raichu-Y and find an opportunity to switch them in, and revenge kill Raichu-Y; otherwise, you have to do a song and dance trying to make sure not to lose your mons to Paralysis from Raichu-Y’s Zap Cannon/Thunder. Forgoing Mold Breaker means that Excadrill has a worse matchup against Wash & Heatom, as its only way to hit it super effectively as a Sand Rush User is Stone Edge, which is a damage roll that can also miss the target. Alternatively, you can run Scarf on Excadrill for the revenge kill and keep Mold Breaker for Wash & Heatom, which might happen in the first few days of Reg M-B in Champions OU before Raichu-Y gets quickbanned or suspected. The former is very likely for Raichu-Y, as it will be similar to other quickbans like Eleki, Flutter Mane, Marshadow, and Houndstone back in SV OU.

3. Scouting and Prediction. Despite Zap Cannon being useless in the Chesnaught Matchup, M-Raichu-Y can predict the switch into Chesnaught by using Alluring Voice for a 2HKO on M-Chesnaught due to its faster speed. Unless it has synthesis and the aforementioned special defense spread, it's going to at least try to use synthesis to recover its HP and switch into a resist or Ground Type or lay spikes. This is going to most likely be Chesnaught’s standard unless Raichu-Y, which, in any case, Chesnaught would be free to invest in defense and Impish nature to try and get a stronger body press to try and use against Raichu-X and other targets like fighting weak mons like Excadrill and Tyranitar, frail mons that aren’t immune or resist body press, while also being a physical tank for all slew of physical attacks. 32 defense unboosted Body Press OHKOs Raichu-Y from full health. It doesn’t want to run EQ for the matchup, since Iron Defense and Body Press are better and can OHKO Raichu at +2 guaranteed without defense investment, and it leaves Chesnaught with issues of not having a crucial move for an important matchup. Synthesis is near-ubiquitous on Chesnaught, and if you replace it with EQ, while it can deal damage to Zard-X and Ceruledge, it would be worse off trying to use Body Press, especially if you decide to use its mega form. Same thing with Spikes and Knock Off, as removing them from its moveset leaves Chesnaught without options to set tempo in the game, or to remove a crucial item like Leftovers, which the rest of the team would enjoy having.

4. It can pivot to Volt Switch to get out of the bad MU against Mega Chesnaught. Chesnaught is rather weak to special hits from stronger mons like M-Floette, Zard-Y, M-Froslass, M-Delphox, etc. Also, Raichu-Y can pair up with mons that can deal with Ches, like Volcarona, which can set up Quiver Dance and can burn Ches with Flame Body and Will-O-Wisp, and Slowking-Galar, whose Regenerator and Chilly Reception allow Raichu-Y to come in safely. The opportunity cost of Raichu means that mons like Zard Y, M-Froslass, and M-Delphox can’t be used to deal with Mega Chesnaught, but since M-B is coming out on the 17th, players are going to gravitate to the new options, especially Raichu-Y.

The same can’t be said for base Chesnaught, who’s more of a niche spiker, which makes the matchup against M-Raichu-Y much more terrifying for Chesnaught to handle, which means that Chesnaught might have to slot in a Mega to survive these hits, which leads to opportunity costs over other megas like Meganium and Floette. Both of them have high special defense stats, better typings for the metagame, and can handle other relevant threats well. Unfortunately, 100% Zap Cannons both make these megas liable to paralysis, which is problematic not only for these two but for the rest of the metagame and would most likely get Raichu-Y quick-banned, meaning that Chesnaught might have to find its footing in Ubers to deal with Raichu-Y. Roseli is too specific for Chesnaught to run, since it excludes Leftovers. It needs the passive healing it can get. And if you are trying to run Assault Vest to deal with Raichu-Y? Well, you’re going to have to run AV on another mon instead of Chesnaught for that role if it releases this regulation. Also, it makes Iron Press, Spikes, Spiky Shield, and Synthesis unusable, making Chesnaught worse for the metagame as a whole.

Still, Chesnaught does have some options to its name; it can use Spiky Shield to scout Alluring Voice/Volt Switch/Thunder/Zap to switch to a Ground or Steel type. Sometimes Raichu-Y can run a different coverage option depending on its MU and team specifications. If it doesn’t have Alluring Voice, Chesnaught has better odds to check Raichu-Y, especially as M-Chesnaught. If it has Focus Blast and/or Surf, even better, as it gets more of a leg up on Raichu-Y, as the former is blocked by Bulletproof, while the latter can be tanked just like Thunder, allowing for Ches to check Raichu-Y much more safely. Even so, Alluring Voice is going to be the common option on Raichu-Y as it wants to use it to smack Dragons, Fighters, and Dark Types, and its STAB Moves hit hard with the 160 Special Attack, either on All-out Attacking or Nasty Plot Sets. Surf is fine, but if Zard-Y is around to set up the drought or if Ttar gets Sand Stream, then Surf is weakened. Focus Blast does help with the latter weather setter, but if running a sub or volt switch, you may have to deal with ghost types and fighting resists, but it can be useful to bait in Electric weak mons or neutral targets with STAB Thunder/Zap Cannon. Plus, Zap Cannon’s Paralysis rate is going to be brutal no matter what, and 160 special attack is so high that it doesn’t matter if you resist these moves; you’re going to be guaranteed to be para-hax unless you run a ground-type choice scarfer or a bulky special wall that can deal with paralysis and resists electric, which are none in the current metagame besides the afforementioned Meganium and Floette, both of them don’t want to deal with Raichu-Y’s Zap Cannon despite them having high special defense themselves. T-Tar is another option, but it has the same pitfalls as the former two and is also bad against Alluring Voice, Surf, and Focus Blast if Raichu-Y keeps up the offensive pressure. Which is why I had to scrounge up Chesnaught as the only somewhat decent check to deal with Raichu-Y, as it doesn’t have to deal with 100% paralysis, but only 30%, resists Surf, Volt Switch, is immune to Focus Blast, and has good special defense to deal with Alluring Voice. Raichu-Y has no reliable counters due to No Guard Zap Cannon, Nasty Plot, and coverage. All it needs is a good supporting crew to set it up online, and it can shred meta teams easily.

Despite these reasons, M-Chesnaught does have a slight edge as long as M-Raichu racks up spikes damage. Stealth Rock works too. The Careful Spread will make Chesnaught a bit more useful, despite it currently being at C Rank. If it can deal with Y, even after its ban, then it can deal with the much weaker X as well, though it will still be a niche pick unless there are other mons in regulation M-B that Chesnaught has a good matchup for to become much more viable in Champions OU, though the cost is still going to be there as meta picks like Mega-Floette, Glimmora, Lopunny, and Meganium maybe a bit too much to justify slotting on a team over the other meta mega picks. And I think that it's going to be that way. 100% paralysis chance on No Guard Zap Cannon is going to be too much. Even as the metagame expands more and more in the coming months with potential additions like Raging Bolt and Ting-Lu to deal with Raichu-Y’s Zap Cannons, no one is going to justify it going back to OU anytime in the future.
 
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Since we're still in the part of sharing :lopunny-mega: sets, I'll throw my own hat in the ring before the topic drifts away. After seeing the priority spamming core of :lopunny-mega: :samurott-hisui: in the good cores thread, I got intrigued enough to try it out...which says a lot, considering I'd like to use new mega only on this format. Before anything else, here's the paste:

https://pokepast.es/761632380f43d9ac

I knew right away that I wanted to pair this core with tspikes support, for lopunny's fake out synergizes perfectly with the racking poison that boots-less grounded mons have to go through. :glimmora: was thus a no-brainer, and can spread poison in multiple ways while providing some level of hazard control. While its efforts can largely be negated by :corviknight: :slowking-galar: :excadrill: that's where :samurott-hisui: comes in, with its swords dance set overpowering even corv with good plays (especially since after taking a c.edge, they're put in a checkmate position: if they roost, the spike is up and you can now 2hko with boosted hits; if they defog, they've not healed so you can attack again to either finish it off, or bring it down super low; if they attack, you live any hit and they're chipped while the spike is down; if they iron defense RUN!!!!! you can't win this....well you theoretically could if you replace your water stab with encore, but getting off big damage on :tyranitar-mega: :kingambit: :floette-mega: is way too valuable to pass up.

This core is insanely weak to fairy and :charizard-mega-y: so I added a spdef :rotom-heat: to temporarily stave off these threats while providing volt switch pivoting, your primary offensive measure against :corviknight: :scizor-mega: and also an additional status spreader to both get freely chipped by lop's fake out but also get smacked by hex pult. As much as I didn't wanna go mainstream like this, adding a corv of my own to the team team improves the main core significantly type chart-wise, as well as provide additional slow pivoting and -reliable- hazard removal support. Defog may seem like lunacy alongside so much hazard stacking, but considering how easy it is to get hazards back up ( :samurott-hisui: just by attacking, :glimmora: just by getting attacked) it doesn't usually hamper progress that much; and it's also vital to avoid your own main core get attacked by (toxic) spikes/your pivots getting affected by rocks. Especially if it gives :glimmora: a chance to use sash (even though you should just switch to your ground move immunities for the most part, but I digress). As for your attacking move, while body press would be nice to not be walled by opposing :excadrill: :kingambit: its stab moves are simply more valuable to the team. I originally had (and generally reccommend) brave bird on the set in order to threaten :sneasler: :volcarona: :meganium-mega: some fire types, more effectively, but iron head is better at wearing down :floette-mega: which can be one of the worst matchups for the team depending on its healing moves; brave bird does 2hko it, but only barely and it can spam synthesis while you keep taking brave bird recoil until it can attack to kill you (or you roost and give it MORE setup opportunities...).

Lastly there's a dragon type; I originally had scarf :garchomp: for "volt switch blocking" and "speed control" but it just kept doing little to nothing in most matches so I axed it. This might sound unfathomable to many, especially with :charizard-mega-x: being a massive threat to the team even now, but...the team for the most part, can cover all sorts of threats both fast and slow. You don't need a scarfer when not only is lop generally fast enough, both it and samu have such powerful priority that also have near-perfect coverage alongside one-another, that most threats can't keep up with and will eventually succumb - ESPECIALLY if they're poisoned. Your bulky/pivoting core can also soft-check most of the meta, and bring back these offensive threats over and over again to cycle priority if need be. Glimm has a sash to live a hit if you can preserve it for long enough, too (even though it should prioritize above all else, poisoning as many things as physically possible above even setting up rocks). In any case, in order to still keep a fast guy around :dragapult: was added last to provide its valuable resistances/immunities from its typing, provide specially-attacking breaking power, and even just a bit more pivoting if need be. Since rotom is covering wisp, pult is free to explore twave as its status spreading move of choice, crippling fire types as well as threats like floette. With 3 mons on the team spreading status like candy, its hex will often be at full power in many circumstances. And ofc draco nukes most things under neutral conditions, while allowing for full spatk investment. Colbur berry allows you to take a hit from :sneasler: :kingambit: :samurott-hisui: in a pinch, though sitrus berry could also be used for recovery (I wonder if I should give that to either rotom or corv instead though...).

Another item option that I now think about it, would be haban berry to live scarf :garchomp: outrage from full and revenge kill; it's only now downed on me that said mon, alongside :floette-mega:, :primarina: and :charizard-mega-x: are probably the biggest threats to the team; however, it's gonna be hard to cover for these threats without making significant changes to the team. The biggest one I had in mind was giving rotom discharge>pain split to attack prim without switching out (it can live an unboosted surf from full) while having decent odds at fishing for para vs the other threats, but...idk. I've never actually clicked pain split with it. I might also give it more speed to cover offensive mega scizor, but idk how much would detract too much from its bulk. All things considered though, really proud of how far the team has gone on the ladder up until this point: getting to 1569, no.60 on the ladder is insane considering my general skill level and REALLY speaks levels to the team's general strengths. If need be/possible, I'd also like to make a sample team submission for this team, due to how well-rounded and effective it generally is.

1781174909339.png

EDIT: I forgot to mention that physdef cm :clefable: (regular not mega) is also a giant threat, being able to setup on most mons while also having the physdef to live most hits as it snowballs out of control. That'd be another reason for iron head on corv, although it doesn't even 2hko...but you can fish for some sort of hax to disrupt its momentum at least.

Also since I'm here again, I decided to dig up some replays to showcase the team:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9championsou-2623276806-x0ngrefxvq9bke8wr84dgm6n78ltdlwpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9championsou-2623338757
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9championsou-2623346115 (espathra moment, tbh I played too recklessly around it but still prevailed anyway)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9championsou-2623361415
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9championsou-2623452530 (the nightmare floette matchup I alluded to up above, twave pult really saved me there...)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9championsou-2623461045-i8q4u19rhwa31040namx5rkc4exftaypw

Also I really wanna emphasize how powerful/potent the priority spamming core is: Lopunny's fake out+mach punch stab combo reaches an effective free 80 bp-same power as extremespeed! Backed up with an adamant nature, the mon can really push the limits against all sorts of offensive threats - notably, you can freely trigger ceruledge's weak armor, and it in turn can't even use shadow sneak against you. Fake out also lets you chip opposing glimm leads' focus sash, to then have your own glimm absorb its tspikes and finish it off with earth power next turn (living with sash if it loses speed ties). Samurott's sucker punch with blackglasses exceeds even 80 bp and becomes a really powerful tool to prevent would-be rkillers after a boost - it's especially valuable since the move isn't always expected on the mon. Together, the fighting and dark type priority moves are only resisted by fairy types; they require careful maneuvering around, but as shown in the above replays and in general, aren't impossible to beat. I DID consider adding :aegislash: somewhere on the team, but I'm unsure where it'd best fit at, and what exact set it would run; especially since iron head seems indispensible against the cm fairies.
 
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contemplating investing in Defense with Mega Raichu Y
12 Def / 22 SpA / 32+ Spe
you live a Flower Trick from a Choice Scarf Meowscarada
maybe investing more or less into Defense is a possibility? however much power could be given up before it really starts hurting Mega Raichu Y
 
contemplating investing in Defense with Mega Raichu Y
12 Def / 22 SpA / 32+ Spe
you live a Flower Trick from a Choice Scarf Meowscarada
maybe investing more or less into Defense is a possibility? however much power could be given up before it really starts hurting Mega Raichu Y


It's not the worst idea, per se. But it isn't that reliable, IMO. To break it down:

1. How much attack are you actually losing? We know from the damage formula that every SP ≈ 0.5-0.6% of damage. This means roughly a 6-7% damage reduction at -12 SP, which by itself may not flip anything at all. You're guaranteed to live the Flower Trick & win the interaction w/ Zap Cannon. This is good.

2. How consistent/substantial is it? You obviously need Raichu to be healthy since you're just barely out of OHKO range. Hazards & premature damage ruin your plan. Then, there are people (me being one of them) who use Adamant instead of Jolly (Turning FT into a 50% OHKO with your spread). You'll need 3 extra points in defense (you'll have the slightest chance to not 2HKO w/ Zap Cannon if you drop Spa for it), for a 25% chance of surviving a Flower Trick or 8 (20 SPs) if you want to remain clear from chance OHKOs. Even then, this tech leaves you vulnerable to priority (or entry hazards should you switch & fail to remove them), so you have to be sure the tradeoff is actually worth it on the off chance you even get the Meowscarada interaction you're planning for.

3. How Important is Raichu To You & Your Opponent's Team? I wouldn't put my offensive anchor at risk for such a niche interaction. It's optimizing for one type of opponent, which requires one specific line, which is a fragile thing to build a spread around. It could cook as an anti-meta option in a Tournament, but I prefer consistency when building for ladder, tbh.
 
It's not the worst idea, per se. But it isn't that reliable, IMO. To break it down:

1. How much attack are you actually losing? We know from the damage formula that every SP ≈ 0.5-0.6% of damage. This means roughly a 6-7% damage reduction at -12 SP, which by itself may not flip anything at all. You're guaranteed to live the Flower Trick & win the interaction w/ Zap Cannon. This is good.

2. How consistent/substantial is it? You obviously need Raichu to be healthy since you're just barely out of OHKO range. Hazards & premature damage ruin your plan. Then, there are people (me being one of them) who use Adamant instead of Jolly (Turning FT into a 50% OHKO with your spread). You'll need 3 extra points in defense (you'll have the slightest chance to not 2HKO w/ Zap Cannon if you drop Spa for it), for a 25% chance of surviving a Flower Trick or 8 (20 SPs) if you want to remain clear from chance OHKOs. Even then, this tech leaves you vulnerable to priority (or entry hazards should you switch & fail to remove them), so you have to be sure the tradeoff is actually worth it on the off chance you even get the Meowscarada interaction you're planning for.

3. How Important is Raichu To You & Your Opponent's Team? I wouldn't put my offensive anchor at risk for such a niche interaction. It's optimizing for one type of opponent, which requires one specific line, which is a fragile thing to build a spread around. It could cook as an anti-meta option in a Tournament, but I prefer consistency when building for ladder, tbh.
I think most Raichu-Y are going to have the 32 SPA stat to hit hard. Since its defensive stats are unchanged, I believe it isn’t wise for Raichu-Y to invest in defense enough to warrant avoiding a revenge kill on Meowscarada, as it needs to deal damage through as many threats as possible. Choice Scarf is going to be on ground types like Excadrill and Garchomp, and other mons are going to afford Scarf to get through Raichu-Y’s Zap Cannon. Raichu prefers consistency over niche interactions like this anyway; it's not like a Thundurus Incarnate, where its bulk is good enough to run bulk investment to be a bulky pivot.

Addendum: if it decides to afford 12-15 points in defense, Raichu-Y is worse off, as its lower special attack in exchange for this interaction wouldn’t help with Excadrill, Garchomp, and Hippowdon dealing OHKO damage anyway. Plus, the lower special attack would make some calculations worse off for Raichu-Y despite the 100% Zap Cannons. The main thing that Raichu-Y has going for it is to hit and spread paralysis as hard as possible.
 
Glowking is ground weak as well, but it is for sure a good balance pivot for Raichu-Y. I find it that it’s going to go there before going into HO structures as well. The main thing is that Raichu-Y has cost for focus sash and its slightly lower speed and less bulk might make it worse than M-Delphox in said structures unless it uses Zap Cannon.
 
Clodsire is not in the game yet and Runerigus' bum is currently sitting in UU
+2 252 SpA Raichu-Mega-Y Surf vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Runerigus: 318-376 (99.3 - 117.5%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
fraud doesn't even eat a +2 Surf without Passho
+2 252 SpA Raichu-Mega-Y Alluring Voice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Garchomp: 326-384 (77.6 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Alluring Voice chunks Garchomp but it's not an OHKO so that's something I suppose

assuming we do not get any new metagame additions, I believe offensively checking Mega Raichu Y is going to determine whether it stays or goes as at the moment I do not see much of anything that could answer it defensively, let alone anything like Dragonite if it's forced to eat one Zap Cannon
didn’t know scarfchomp wasn’t a thing here but sure
don’t remember saying it was in the game yet either, just pointing out

I see this thing being suspected at least twice if we get a good pokemon to answer it in the new season otherwise it might be banned
 
I do see the vision with Clodsire, though. It might be a good counter to Raichu-Y. 130 HP and 100 Special Defense are naturally good with its typing and Water Absorb to shore up Surf from not only Raichu-Y but water type attackers from the bevy of water types in Champions OU like Samurott, Greninja, and M-Greninja. It might also hold up against other special attackers, like M-Floette, Charizard-Y, Glimmora, and M-Meganium, with Unaware. Even after Raichu-Y gets banned, it's going to see some niche in Champions OU, though its role might lend itself to stall teams, as Glowking is a good pivot on balance teams. Though it may find itself on a more bulky balance structure, like in Scarlet and Violet OU and UU.

For Modest 32 SpA Raichu-Y Focus Blast:

32+ SpA Raichu-Y Focus Blast vs. 32 HP / 2 SpD Clodsire: 43-51 (18.1 - 21.5%) -- possible 7HKO
32+ SpA Raichu-Y Focus Blast vs. 32 HP / 32+ SpD Clodsire: 31-37 (13 - 15.6%) -- possibly the worst move ever

For Modest 32 SpA Raichu-Y with Surf against Unaware/Poison Point Clodsire:

32+ SpA Raichu-Y Surf vs. 32 HP / 2 SpD Clodsire: 130-154 (54.8 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
32+ SpA Raichu-Y Surf vs. 32 HP / 32+ SpD Clodsire: 96-114 (40.5 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
 
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as many a person has touched on, clodsire isn't even in teh game but provided it is lets take a look at the calcs rq

vs unaware: 252 SpA Raichu-Mega-Y Surf vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Unaware Clodsire: 166-196 (35.8 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
this is pretty sizeable chip and means you need to be constantly at high health or else one wrong predict and your wall is 2shot

vs water absorb: +2 252 SpA Raichu-Mega-Y Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 220-259 (47.5 - 55.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
now this is a nasty calc, let it get a plot and your dying in 2, it must be said that grass knot isn't always gonna be on raihcu but its still something worth noting definitely

another thing is that raichu gets knock off, so if you switch in thinking its a plot set but its really 4a with knock then your clodsire is crippled for the rest of the game

what's worse then these calcs is that one of the premier raichu partners will undoubtedly be corviknight (slow pivot to let it in safely, ground switch in, can bait electric attacks to proc lightning rod pre-mega), a mon that completely and entirely blanks clodsire, it quite literally cannot do anything to it at all and corv just uses it for free momentum and can defog away hazards. so clodsire is struggling immensely into raichu comps anyways.

so this check isn't as sutrdy as you may think, and even if it was a perfect check to every set ITS NOT IN THE GAME YET and also its a very difficult mon to fit on a team, as can be seen in gen 9 ou. if you need a fringe mon to check (not counter) raichu y on every team then its clearly an unhealthy metagame. while the teams that clod can naturally fit on (most notably stall) would be pretty decent into most raichu sets (tho knock + volt switch with hazards support would be pretty nasty). but even if it was a perfect check the above still applies, otherwise we would have zacian crowned in ou cause dondozo/quagsire walls it. (this is not to say raichu is as broken as zacian)

this is not to say that raichu y is a mon without flaws, most obviously being its abysmal bulk. finding set up opportunities is fairly tricky but not impossible as many defensive mons can't hit it too hard and it can also be supported by screens or w/e, while it doesnt need set up and can be just as deadly with 4a. the bulk also leaves it vulnerable to revenge killing, but due to its insane speed stat this is limited to the small amount of naturally faster mons (tho dpult can't ko it without damage amplification), some scarfers (which themselves thud into the common defensive backbones that would support raichu like scarf chomp into corv) and priority (which is unreliable, see:
252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 1 ally fainted Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Raichu-Mega-Y: 229-271 (87.7 - 103.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Raichu-Mega-Y: 158-187 (60.5 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Ceruledge Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Raichu-Mega-Y: 205-243 (78.5 - 93.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Lopunny-Mega Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Raichu-Mega-Y: 109-130 (41.7 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (fake out + mach isnt a ko from full) (yes it dies to cc im aware just for examples sake / if its paraed)
and most of these potential revenge killers arent exactly keen to switch into a zap cannon

so lets stop with these discussions of "this mon will be checked by [mon not in the game yet] except maybe except not really and that looks like the only counter, so its not broken" please
 
as many a person has touched on, clodsire isn't even in teh game but provided it is lets take a look at the calcs rq

vs unaware: 252 SpA Raichu-Mega-Y Surf vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Unaware Clodsire: 166-196 (35.8 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
this is pretty sizeable chip and means you need to be constantly at high health or else one wrong predict and your wall is 2shot

vs water absorb: +2 252 SpA Raichu-Mega-Y Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 220-259 (47.5 - 55.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
now this is a nasty calc, let it get a plot and your dying in 2, it must be said that grass knot isn't always gonna be on raihcu but its still something worth noting definitely

another thing is that raichu gets knock off, so if you switch in thinking its a plot set but its really 4a with knock then your clodsire is crippled for the rest of the game

what's worse then these calcs is that one of the premier raichu partners will undoubtedly be corviknight (slow pivot to let it in safely, ground switch in, can bait electric attacks to proc lightning rod pre-mega), a mon that completely and entirely blanks clodsire, it quite literally cannot do anything to it at all and corv just uses it for free momentum and can defog away hazards. so clodsire is struggling immensely into raichu comps anyways.

so this check isn't as sutrdy as you may think, and even if it was a perfect check to every set ITS NOT IN THE GAME YET and also its a very difficult mon to fit on a team, as can be seen in gen 9 ou. if you need a fringe mon to check (not counter) raichu y on every team then its clearly an unhealthy metagame. while the teams that clod can naturally fit on (most notably stall) would be pretty decent into most raichu sets (tho knock + volt switch with hazards support would be pretty nasty). but even if it was a perfect check the above still applies, otherwise we would have zacian crowned in ou cause dondozo/quagsire walls it. (this is not to say raichu is as broken as zacian)

this is not to say that raichu y is a mon without flaws, most obviously being its abysmal bulk. finding set up opportunities is fairly tricky but not impossible as many defensive mons can't hit it too hard and it can also be supported by screens or w/e, while it doesnt need set up and can be just as deadly with 4a. the bulk also leaves it vulnerable to revenge killing, but due to its insane speed stat this is limited to the small amount of naturally faster mons (tho dpult can't ko it without damage amplification), some scarfers (which themselves thud into the common defensive backbones that would support raichu like scarf chomp into corv) and priority (which is unreliable, see:
252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 1 ally fainted Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Raichu-Mega-Y: 229-271 (87.7 - 103.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Raichu-Mega-Y: 158-187 (60.5 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Ceruledge Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Raichu-Mega-Y: 205-243 (78.5 - 93.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Lopunny-Mega Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Raichu-Mega-Y: 109-130 (41.7 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (fake out + mach isnt a ko from full) (yes it dies to cc im aware just for examples sake / if its paraed)
and most of these potential revenge killers arent exactly keen to switch into a zap cannon

so lets stop with these discussions of "this mon will be checked by [mon not in the game yet] except maybe except not really and that looks like the only counter, so its not broken" please
Checks and counters are two different things, there is absolutely no reason to crash out over this
 
thats the point, its just a check, this mon has little to no actual counters and thus quoting clodisre as a reason it would be balanced is just wrong
you cannot be real here
I didn’t say once it would be balanced, I said it could be argued that it could stay in ou because of clodsire, and I especially said if it comes. I’m not making assumptions, I’m stating that if we get clodsire it could pass the suspect test (because it’s happened before) and even then I don’t think that would be enough.
I really shouldn’t have to sound this out it’s clear as day if you read my messages like damn
 
firstly id like to say this wasnt a personal attack on you as i have seen many people talking about this, and i wanted to cover generally the sentiment of clod walling it which is not something that you alone have been pioneering. i can see why you think it was about some of your points but relaly my intention wasnt to attack any one person just to show how i dont believe that raichu is balanced, and that using clodsire or something similar as an argument for its potential balance is flawed.
you cannot be real here
I didn’t say once it would be balanced, I said it could be argued that it could stay in ou because of clodsire, and I especially said if it comes. I’m not making assumptions, I’m stating that if we get clodsire it could pass the suspect test (because it’s happened before) and even then I don’t think that would be enough.
I really shouldn’t have to sound this out it’s clear as day if you read my messages like damn

There's a reason I say maybe buddy. If people start running spdef chomp or rune then it could stay. If we get a check in the new wave of mons then it would stay too. This thing is frail enough to die to espeed from dnite at +1 with silk scarf. Don't be jumping to conclusions when this thing is a Clodsire victim
now, you said "if we get a check it would stay" and "dont be jumping to conclusions when this thing is a clodsire victim" this implies quite heavily that clodsire would allow it to stay, and even if your piont it is clodsire came it could stay, my post still covers that point in that clodsire is neither a splashable mon nor an enitrely reliable answer and even if it was, one mon is not enough to keep a mon balanced. throughout your messages here your opinions and point change like every second so i cant be bothered to argue further, think what you want about raichu-y we'll see when it drops
 
vs unaware: 252 SpA Raichu-Mega-Y Surf vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Unaware Clodsire: 166-196 (35.8 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
this is pretty sizeable chip and means you need to be constantly at high health or else one wrong predict and your wall is 2shot

vs water absorb: +2 252 SpA Raichu-Mega-Y Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Clodsire: 220-259 (47.5 - 55.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
now this is a nasty calc, let it get a plot and your dying in 2, it must be said that grass knot isn't always gonna be on raihcu but its still something worth noting definitely

I think these discussions are genuinely interesting. For me, it's not so much figuring out whether a Pokémon is ban-worthy, but "is this Pokémon as untouchable as my opponent thinks & how can we exploit that overeliance to our advantage?"

Most of the arguments presented are an issue of poor piloting, if anything else. "Your wall dies in 2 shots if you don't keep its health up!" isn't any more of a point than "if you switch your check in at the wrong HP, at the wrong time, or into the wrong move, it dies." That doesn't make a check inadequate; that's just improper play. In many of my games, Mega Scizor was a check to my Clefable until I set up cosmic power & KO'd it with Flamethrowers...Corviknight walls Garchomp until it's low enough to get KO'd by Fire Fang or 2-shot by it at +2 from a bad predict. Is this whole argument: "Yes, but a check isn't a check if you misplay"?

Regarding Grass Knot calc, if you're running Water Absorb Clod, how do you let a Raichu get 2 attacks off at +2 if you're playing singles? As soon as you throw out Raichu, Clodsire is coming in the turn you set up Nasty Plot. In a scenario where Raichu swaps in, you do something weird on the nasty plot turn, it goes +2, THEN, you HARD swap into Clod (cause even at +2, you don't 1-shot it), the only reason your check didn't work is that you don't know what you're doing. Even then, you're just quoting specific, niche sequences, not guaranteed outcomes. Same scenario as the Corviknight + Garchomp interaction from earlier. The supposed strategy is merely hoping your opponent misplays an open-book interaction.

another thing is that raichu gets knock off, so if you switch in thinking its a plot set but its really 4a with knock then your clodsire is crippled for the rest of the game

The Pokémon that needs to have Nasty Plot + Zap Cannon + Surf is gonna risk getting hard countered by Bulletproof Chesnaught & Kommo-o, Goodra, Archaludon, etc, because it decided to have Knock Off (which doesn't do any meaningful crippling if the Pokémon still neutralizes it) instead of Focus Blast or Alluring Voice for its last move? 4 slot syndrome is more of a burden than we give credit for.
what's worse then these calcs is that one of the premier raichu partners will undoubtedly be corviknight (slow pivot to let it in safely, ground switch in, can bait electric attacks to proc lightning rod pre-mega), a mon that completely and entirely blanks clodsire, it quite literally cannot do anything to it at all and corv just uses it for free momentum and can defog away hazards. so clodsire is struggling immensely into raichu comps anyways.

Granted, this is an implicit concession since a Pokémon that needs pivot support to function optimally is a different conversation (Boosted Char X, for reference, doesn't fold under anything ;-;). In these scenarios, such pivots create their own exploitable patterns, as you'll flat out lose to a prediction Mega Delphox Substitute/Nasty Plot, or some other read, so I wouldn't bank on it.
its a very difficult mon to fit on a team, as can be seen in gen 9 ou. if you need a fringe mon to check (not counter) raichu y on every team then its clearly an unhealthy metagame. while the teams that clod can naturally fit on (most notably stall) would be pretty decent into most raichu sets (tho knock + volt switch with hazards support would be pretty nasty). but even if it was a perfect check the above still applies, otherwise we would have zacian crowned in ou cause dondozo/quagsire walls it. (this is not to say raichu is as broken as zacian)

Teambuilding is subjective, so I'm not gonna speak on the 1st point. The "optimal team" could be a form of Raichu anti-meta for all we know. As you already stated, the Zacian/Dondozo comparison doesn't scale. We're comparing a Legendary with both near-perfect offensive and defensive stats across the board. The difference of "fringe" here is how Raichu Y has 60/55/80 bulk, so it's extremely easy to remove offensively, even if checking it defensively requires specific tools. A Pokémon can be strong in the metagame without being broken simply because its defensive answers are specific. Remember the Mega Delphox & Char X I mentioned earlier? Almost every top-tier threat has a narrow defensive answer pool.

the bulk also leaves it vulnerable to revenge killing, but due to its insane speed stat this is limited to the small amount of naturally faster mons (tho dpult can't ko it without damage amplification), some scarfers (which themselves thud into the common defensive backbones that would support raichu like scarf chomp into corv) and priority (which is unreliable, see:
252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 1 ally fainted Kingambit Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Raichu-Mega-Y: 229-271 (87.7 - 103.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Raichu-Mega-Y: 158-187 (60.5 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 Atk Ceruledge Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Raichu-Mega-Y: 205-243 (78.5 - 93.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Lopunny-Mega Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Raichu-Mega-Y: 109-130 (41.7 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (fake out + mach isnt a ko from full) (yes it dies to cc im aware just for examples sake / if its paraed)
and most of these potential revenge killers arent exactly keen to switch into a zap cannon

so lets stop with these discussions of "this mon will be checked by [mon not in the game yet] except maybe except not really and that looks like the only counter, so its not broken" please

I never understood admitting to something's counterplay just to dismiss them as unreliable, as if we don't know how to play Pokémon (or just dismiss them entirely with Pult. Dragon Fang is not out of left field, nor is Black Glasses on Gambit). If I were to use your argument from earlier & say your Raichu needs to be at constantly high health for it to even work against priority, what then? Same with your chip argument...Stealth Rock is a pretty sizable chip for Raichu, too. If we are to frame isolated calcs for Raichu to form a justification, we should stand on that for Clodsire & Raichu's other answers. Raichu is taking Stealth Rock damage, potential prior chip, and facing multiple priority users simultaneously, too. The cumulative pressure from Hazards + Sucker Punch + Priority + Focus/Choice Scarf across different Pokémon means Raichu Y's revenge killing pool is broader than "a small amount of naturally faster mons." It's not just one priority user; it's the aggregate.
 
:malamar: Mega: Contrary.
Mega Malamar is just a larger Malamar. And maybe that's all it needs. Malamar had the massive glaring issue of having a really bad stat spread. It would always lose on out something wherever it invested. Usually it was power, but even its special bulk was poor and left it prone to wallbreakers. 86 / 120 special bulk is so much better and even an 88 Speed stat is just enough to pass the 299 threshold. Just being able to rely on its raw stats gives it so much more room to breathe. No OU superstar, but I think that's okay.

:scolipede: Mega: Shell Armor.
Sure? I suppose? Being able to boost Speed even once in base form while having a massive Attack stat and great Defense is awesome. Having severe 4MSS syndrome though is not. Poison / Bug is horrible offensively and you will need to settle on moves like Swords Dance, Protect, STAB, and Earthquake. Protectless is really risky, but possible I suppose. I guess it'll be better than Scolipede, maybe. Probably stuck in midtier Hell.

:barbaracle: Mega: Tough Claws.
Bigger Barbaracle, but now it punches shit. Again, that might just be enough. 88 Speed is so much better and its Attack is much higher too, further compounding that Barbaracle often runs White Herb. Shell Smash sweeper with big numbers. Thing is going to be scary.

:falinks: Mega: Defiant.
Another Pokemon who needed fatter numbers. 135 Attack and 100 Speed on a +1 boost is so much more impressive. Mono Fighting isn't fun, it still retains its poor special bulk pre No Retreat, severe 4MSS with all the Fighting resistances. Still a mile better than its base form though.

:scrafty: Mega: Intimidate.
Look at all these Pokemon that are just bigger versions of their base selves. Scrafty's base 90 Attack stat was very underwhelming uninvested, so kicking it to 130 is so much better. Double Intimidate makes accruing Bulk Up buffs so much easier. Going to be a solid mid tier Pokemon.

:staraptor: Mega: Contrary.
On one hand, defensive teams might be a problem. 8 PP on Close Combat and Brave Bird recoil isn't super fun. On the other, I can easily see this thing plowing through offensive teams. 110 is a very good Speed tier and eventually Mega Staraptor just becomes impossible to revenge kill if it gets up too many Close Combats. Respectable natural bulk and Intimidate on top of that with solid power. Is going to be good. Will be surprised if I don't see it in OU.

:dragalge: Mega: Regenerator.
help
 
1000052453.jpg

Mega Staraptor: Contrary
Mega Scolipede: Shell Armor
Mega Scrafty: Intimidate
Mega Eelektross: Eelevate (Levitate+Beast Boost)
Mega Pyroar: Fire Mane (50% boost to fire moves)
Mega Malamar: Contrary
Mega Barbaracle: Tough Claws
Mega Dragalge: Regenerator
Mega Falinks: Defiant

- Sceptile now learns Earth Power
- Scolipede now learns Leech Life and Trailblazer
- Annihilape lost Final Gambit and Rage Fist was nerfed to losing it's boosts on switch and locking at 350 Max
- Grimmsnarl lost False Surrender and Thunder Wave
- Scrafty lost parting shot
- Overqwil lost Mortal Spin
- Swampert gets Wave Crash
- Metagross loses Heavy Slam and Knock Off
- Pyroar loses Earth Power, but gets Scorching Sands
- Staraptor loses Knock Off
- Gholdengo keeps Surf from Z-A
- Mawile loses Focus Punch

1000052452.png

Well I'm glad M-Scep has a special move to punch steel types without flipping a coin, now GF give it Nasty Plot, please??

Edit:Gholdhengo's Make it Rain was nerfed, it now has a 95 acc and lower it's special by 2 now.
 
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