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Unpopular opinions

Absolutely none of this applies to doubles though, where the concept of spread moves makes it so you are forced into inaccurate moves
Not all spread moves are inaccurate (Earthquake is the most notable) and Singles still encourages running stuff like Stone Edge and Focus Blast way more.

and the game is so quick that a single freeze can straight up make the game unwinnable with nothing you could've done around because the options are so much more limiting that playing around it feels impossible.
Doubles being faster means you can run Bo3 like in tournaments and that greatly helps reduce the effects of hax.

Singles, again, is also not immune to bad luck screwing you over. I recently just lot a BSS match because of a single flinch from a Maushold's Bite.
 
It might be weird that I think that Pokemon is much better suited for doubles at a casual level, while being absolutely atrocious for doubles at a competitive level. The luck mechanics are perfectly fine and suitable for both casual playthroughs, and competitive singles where you are given multiple opportunities to also get a lucky opportunity to even things out due to the longer turn count, where multiple moves are viable so you can choose fully accurate moves, and critical hits serve as a means to pressure stall and other strategies that would otherwise be far above the curve.

Absolutely none of this applies to doubles though, where the concept of spread moves makes it so you are forced into inaccurate moves, and the game is so quick that a single freeze can straight up make the game unwinnable with nothing you could've done around because the options are so much more limiting that playing around it feels impossible. I really enjoyed stuff like Battle Revolution's draft and the Gamecube titles in doubles and wish they focused more on it rather than 4v4 VGC format which implements luck based elements that are okay in casual gameplay abyssmal.
I also think this is true for the higher-end challenge runs ingame. You can play around the possibility of one crit per turn, but very rarely two, while baiting moves for a switch is also less effective with the opponents using multiple types of moves simultaneously So while even setup sweep Nuzlocke strategies can vary a lot in terms of what on your side can set up can set up against what on the enemy side and how to arrive at that position, most doubles fights start and end with a low-HP mon with Protect to take both attacks.

Multi Battles with NPCs are an even bigger divide. They're pretty hype causally, but awful to actively plan around. I keep thinking of how in Run and Bun, the standard approach for the main Multi Battle is to just Explode the entire field. Several times.
 
Not all spread moves are inaccurate (Earthquake is the most notable) and Singles still encourages running stuff like Stone Edge and Focus Blast way more.


Doubles being faster means you can run Bo3 like in tournaments and that greatly helps reduce the effects of hax.

Singles, again, is also not immune to bad luck screwing you over. I recently just lot a BSS match because of a single flinch from a Maushold's Bite.
It's not perfect, and let me be clear I'm not a fan of the higher tiers in modern day either since the powercreep has gone rather absurd. You can see this philosophy work it's most in gen 2 and gen 3 where hax is a legitimate aspect of the game but usually evens out to the point where they are considered by most of the playerbase the most skill intensive generations out there. Even formats like gen 4 OU which I'm not a huge fan of engage with hax in a mathematical sense where paralysis, while extremely annoying, is indeed skill testing and has strategies around stalling games until it becomes mathematically in your favor to get the upper hand. Hax doesn't work that way in VGC because it's impossible for games to last that long in the first place because getting ganged up on and the lack of Pokemon count makes it unusably bad. 6v6 doubles might be substantially better as an experience but the official doubles experience definitely makes the aspects that are appropriate for an in-game playthrough (and can argued to still provide skill expression in singles) completely miserable as a competitive experience.
 
Here's my unpopular opinion: Pokemon BW are perhaps glazed more than their writing content warrants, but we have now reached the point where many critics come across as obtuse and contrarian in presenting their arguments and barely engage with the positive reception to debate the merits. Example: Ghetsis being a bluntly villainous antagonist somehow means there is no nuance to N or Team Plasma as an entity, as if N being groomed by a self-serving dirtbag leaves nothing to say about his perception, or that the debate itself is the point with nothing to espouse on like "how do you explain this idea everyone takes for granted as true"

Like at this point, saying "Black and White are a bad story" is not unpopular anymore than saying they're a good story. And if I can throw another in, I think SM gets significantly more praise/forgiveness for its story pitfalls, when personally I find them more glaring because where BW aims for the top of a hill and kind of gets there, SM aims for the sky while wearing cement shoes with how much it existing as a Pokemon game kneecaps its "potential" story

Hmmmmmmmm...... It's very curious how Lusamine's signature Pokemon is a giant bear that tries to be nice and caring by hugging people but does so in such a reckless and overbearing way that it ultimately hurts those it loves....
Bewear is barely Lusamine's signature mon beyond being her final sent out in her boss battles (Cynthia doesn't always end on Garchomp in Gen 4). The anime more heavily pushes her Clefable and NONE of her Masters EX alts use it (electing for Lilligant and Milotic from her in-game mons). Not to mention the comparison is borked: Bewear is varied between snapping friends with hugs and making shows of intimidation, but how do you apply either interpretation to SM Lusamine's character? The defining reveals for Lusamine pertain to how her "love" is conditional on obedience/adoration and she views others as owing their love to her regardless of what she does, given she disowns her children for trying to escape her. Bewear is a toddler who gets rough with their playmates or pets, Lusamine is a damaged adult who sees those she "loves" as hers to possess.
 
...but we have now reached the point where many critics come across as obtuse and contrarian in presenting their arguments and barely engage with the positive reception to debate the merits
There is a reason...
This is to, return to the early 2000s status quo/dominating opinion. In Pokemon's context back then, Gen Wunners were king, many romhacks were just attempts to recreate Kanyo or expand on Kanto, cofeaturing everybody's fav Gen 4 game, HGSS. And ofc Gen 5 was hated. Years later after a similar shaken up game (Gen 7 USUM and later Gen 8), this opinion shifted. Kanto nostalgia is more despised, Gen 5 got heavily popular as an anti 3D game, Gen 2's flaws are finally addressed. The former status quo was shaken, and forums decay has meant that opinions flitter and get copied on Ytube/Twitter way more easily. Some want to return to the former status quo, and relegate to more controlled spaces online. Otherwise are just hardwired to instigate shit, especially during Covid. So now we have major squabbling where both sides have admittedly, not actually played the games, and are just regurgitating old points with no context, now them getting exaggerated. It's a cycle that'll repeat next major game, as the fandom is too fragmented this point + nostalgia underdogs coming in front. TLDR, Enjoy Gen 9 praise in a few years, and annoying people hating the praise to come out
 
i do not in fact think my critiques of bw are unfounded or obtuse and i dont like the implication that people somehow just didn't play the games i guess

Pokemon Black was my first Pokemon Game. Period. It was the first Pokemon game that I beat. It is the first Pokemon game I replayed. It was the Pokemon game that all the let's players were playing because it was new, and I also watched them. I have replayed the game.

I replayed B2W2 twice to refresh my opinion due to my nostalgia for it, and find it ages well. I do not think BW1 has aged well, and therefore find the constant glaze for it On The Line to be not actually likely founded in people playing it and coming to their conclusions, but instead being like me as a kid except never challenging their nostalgic beliefs again and again.

My opinion on the Sinnoh games has been shifting as of late to a more positive direction as my own personal understanding of the series and what I love and value the most in them as games is tested, despite first having played Pokemon Diamond in 2012 (though not finishing it at the time).

i am and many are capable of independent thought that includes the idea bw1 is overrated and not actually good at some of the things people praise it for

like the reason i think b2w2 is great is because it puts less emphasis on major mistakes of bw1 and instead is like "lets just be really good at being a basic pokemon game" and its arguably the best one

i also think bluntly people already are in the "grr too many people praise alola's story time to take it down a peg" and lowkey half the arguments for it are either "Pokemon fans can't read" or make me recall the forbidden discourse phrase m##i# ##t##ac#
(had to censor it its too much)

no sun and moon does not get too much praise because people are saying it is good at things and acknowledging it isnt good at other things at times

many of us have had to grit and bare the most dumb glazing of xyz pokemon title for 15 years. i also think in the glazing/bashing cycles there were also correct broad realignments in the discourse (like people realizing wait a minute unova's dex fucking rocks, johto level curve, etc)

but also ive had to listen to people bash every single pokemon game after the year 2012 as ruining the franchise and their childhood and everybody that likes any of them is The Problem so idk maybe we can grit and bare some pretty basic critique of the game from 2011 sometimes

nothing being said is really that much of a stretch its only shocking if you are in a media diet where generation 5 are 10/10 masterpieces that mark the end of creativity in the franchise which was never a true reality. that was never actually the case. it was a fabrication, no game in the series is like that. every other game is allowed people shitting on aspects of it. people shit on almost every team in the series including the aether foundation and skull, people shit on the balance of many games in the series, people say some pokemon characters are faux deep because many of them are (a few months ago i did a little write up in one of these threads about how giovanni/team rocket, too, have been seen as way more serious in fan media than they ever were originally)

bw1 are the games that larp as being super serious the most while having the easiest shit to poke fun at despite that so people do that
 
listen you can call it disingenuous but it is so hard to take a game that was made for gamefreak to pose people who talked about the sort of contrast of a series made to be fun while its main theme being Cock Fighting as stupid idiots, seriously. and to shadowbox an organization no one took seriously anymore when it released of all things.
it wants to be deep but its overly insecure because gamefreak Needs you to understand that pokemon battles are a flawless concept at the end of the day. bc if they dont it might hurt the brand(tm) and the brand(tm) must be defended at all costs. it refuses to actually grasp the question the entire game is supposed to be based on because it doesnt actually have an answer to why pokemon battles are good other than it just is

AND THE THING IS THAT ITS FINE. ITS FINE. EVERYONE GOT IT. EVERYONE HAD THEIR SUSPENSION OF DISBELIEF CAPS ON WE ALL ACCEPTED THAT IT WAS JUST HOW ITS!!! THEY DIDNT NEED TO DO THIS LOL

seismitoad rules tho
 
i do not in fact think my critiques of bw are unfounded or obtuse and i dont like the implication that people somehow just didn't play the games i guess

Pokemon Black was my first Pokemon Game. Period. It was the first Pokemon game that I beat. It is the first Pokemon game I replayed. It was the Pokemon game that all the let's players were playing because it was new, and I also watched them. I have replayed the game.

I replayed B2W2 twice to refresh my opinion due to my nostalgia for it, and find it ages well. I do not think BW1 has aged well, and therefore find the constant glaze for it On The Line to be not actually likely founded in people playing it and coming to their conclusions, but instead being like me as a kid except never challenging their nostalgic beliefs again and again.

My opinion on the Sinnoh games has been shifting as of late to a more positive direction as my own personal understanding of the series and what I love and value the most in them as games is tested, despite first having played Pokemon Diamond in 2012 (though not finishing it at the time).

i am and many are capable of independent thought that includes the idea bw1 is overrated and not actually good at some of the things people praise it for

like the reason i think b2w2 is great is because it puts less emphasis on major mistakes of bw1 and instead is like "lets just be really good at being a basic pokemon game" and its arguably the best one

i also think bluntly people already are in the "grr too many people praise alola's story time to take it down a peg" and lowkey half the arguments for it are either "Pokemon fans can't read" or make me recall the forbidden discourse phrase m##i# ##t##ac#
(had to censor it its too much)

no sun and moon does not get too much praise because people are saying it is good at things and acknowledging it isnt good at other things at times

many of us have had to grit and bare the most dumb glazing of xyz pokemon title for 15 years. i also think in the glazing/bashing cycles there were also correct broad realignments in the discourse (like people realizing wait a minute unova's dex fucking rocks, johto level curve, etc)

but also ive had to listen to people bash every single pokemon game after the year 2012 as ruining the franchise and their childhood and everybody that likes any of them is The Problem so idk maybe we can grit and bare some pretty basic critique of the game from 2011 sometimes

nothing being said is really that much of a stretch its only shocking if you are in a media diet where generation 5 are 10/10 masterpieces that mark the end of creativity in the franchise which was never a true reality. that was never actually the case. it was a fabrication, no game in the series is like that. every other game is allowed people shitting on aspects of it. people shit on almost every team in the series including the aether foundation and skull, people shit on the balance of many games in the series, people say some pokemon characters are faux deep because many of them are (a few months ago i did a little write up in one of these threads about how giovanni/team rocket, too, have been seen as way more serious in fan media than they ever were originally)

bw1 are the games that larp as being super serious the most while having the easiest shit to poke fun at despite that so people do that
Oh no I'm not talking about you, you actually explain your points well and have an actual opinion. I'm talking about the greater fandom in general

This is an issue in many fandoms
 
My BW1 story take is that is a better written, better constructed plot than Dragon Ball's Android arc, which is bad and a mess. At least TPCi upper brass did not force the developers to change the main villain twice and at least the climax is not based around a recurring character suddenly becoming a pacifist when this was never the case or previously hinted at. Also Bianca and Cheren remain reasonably competent opponents and keep having character arcs and don't become jobbers who only serve to dump exposition and die after your first fight with them
 
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and to shadowbox an organization no one took seriously anymore when it released of all things.

I’m just not really convinced that PETA or people who label the series as fantasy cockfighting had anything to do with the development of BW. There is no evidence I’m aware of that these things were on Game Freak’s radar, or if they were, that Game Freak felt so vulnerable to their exaggerated criticisms that they felt the need to defend themselves.

I’ve remarked a few times now about how Masuda is an artsy nerd who takes on the themes and the philosophy of Pokémon with a completely straight face, and really wants the games to Say Something despite them ultimately just being games about cool battle monsters that don’t necessarily call for any deeper thought, so I think it’s perfectly plausible that the story of BW could emerge organically out of his personal pontification on the nature of human and Pokémon relationships.
 
Tbf Buu saga is just Toriyama on fumes + I'm still mad Goku did not visit Grandpa Gohan during the 7 years wait, or even acknowledge it. Also despite only taking a few days, it's almost as long as the Cyborg/Cell saga for chapters

The Gohan thing is less him being a pacifist (TFS fucked up), more him feeling like he's uncontrollable when fully mad, which is valid. He's afraid of hurting close others during his rage (again valid), and he's using perma SS1 training as a coping mechanism to not fully release his emotions. Ofc this backfires cuz Cell doesn't give a shit, and it just leads Gohan on his other crutch: to cower and (fail to) run away

It's still a mid af arc, but the Gohan thing isn't my issue

Oh right, pokemon, uhh...

Mega Starmie is a meme, but the design is lazy
 
BW1 makes sense in that there's a charismatic cult leader who can brainwash a bunch of people into mistakenly believing using Pokémon in battle is evil or all trainers inevitably end up being abusers. It's not that they had a good point that suddenly got undercut by Ghetsis being a manipulator. I don't think the developers ignored all their own past material that suggested Pokémon enjoyed challenging each other and reached their full potential much more easily with a human's training. I used to believe the story was just an example of "debate and switch" like many critics who felt cheated, but it's not really that.

Still somewhat deeper than mobsters, reckless villains who messed with forces they didn't understand, or a caricature of Spock who believed emotions are evil. The fact that a decent portion of the members are misguided believers and some are just cynical hypocrites along for the ride makes the team seem more compelling. N struggling with his moral beliefs (not just his way of raising Pokémon like with Silver or Hau) also goes against the grain.
 
My BW1 story take is that is a better written, better constructed plot than Dragon Ball's Android arc, which is bad and a mess.
I'm pretty sure that's a brand-new sentence.

No, seriously, what's the parallel here?

Tbf Buu saga is just Toriyama on fumes + I'm still mad Goku did not visit Grandpa Gohan during the 7 years wait, or even acknowledge it. Also despite only taking a few days, it's almost as long as the Cyborg/Cell saga for chapters

The Gohan thing is less him being a pacifist (TFS fucked up), more him feeling like he's uncontrollable when fully mad, which is valid. He's afraid of hurting close others during his rage (again valid), and he's using perma SS1 training as a coping mechanism to not fully release his emotions. Ofc this backfires cuz Cell doesn't give a shit, and it just leads Gohan on his other crutch: to cower and (fail to) run away

It's still a mid af arc, but the Gohan thing isn't my issue

Oh right, pokemon, uhh...

Mega Starmie is a meme, but the design is lazy
Namek Gohan was peak Gohan and most people aren't ready for this discussion. Cell Saga Gohan was borderline character assassination.


As for my criticism on BW1's story... N is just not interesting. Sorry. N is literally a dude touching grass for the first time. I don't even have a problem with Ghetsis, his weaponized hipocrisy makes perfect sense considering his end goal.

N is not interesting enough as an antagonist to drive the story forward, the Sages are borderline faceless mooks that aren't really worth mentioning. N trying to sell himself as "the King of Team Plasma" is just hilarious.

His whole deal is about as transparent as Lysandre being the villain in XY. Game Freak really wants you to get hooked to the story, and take it seriously, but then do this:
1785181598995.png


r/I'm14andThisIsDeep ahh story. It breaks immersion as often as Deadpool and people want to use it as the gold standard to this day. It's just awful.

BW1's story would be infinitely better with just Team Plasma and Ghetsis playing soccer with Munnas and going all in on their grift.

Edit:
Still somewhat deeper than mobsters
Speaking of which, Kanto's story is underrated. Simple, effective goals with the Rival and Team Rocket. Things that make relative sense. (For the most part, Blue ambushing you in Silph is insanely petty lol)
 
Blue dealing with the fact his Grandpa casually forgets his name, then gasses up the player constantly, then gaslit guilt trips Blue in not caring for his mons even though nothing suggested that he mistreated them or regarded them as mere tools:

1785188003280.jpeg


One of the earliest Pokemon mangas directly called out Prof. Oak for that shit
1785188292611.png

1785188309439.png


This is why Gary went loco for Red after Gen 2, smh...
 
Here's my unpopular opinion: Pokemon BW are perhaps glazed more than their writing content warrants, but we have now reached the point where many critics come across as obtuse and contrarian in presenting their arguments and barely engage with the positive reception to debate the merits. Example: Ghetsis being a bluntly villainous antagonist somehow means there is no nuance to N or Team Plasma as an entity, as if N being groomed by a self-serving dirtbag leaves nothing to say about his perception, or that the debate itself is the point with nothing to espouse on like "how do you explain this idea everyone takes for granted as true"
High key, really do have to agree.
This entire anti-Gen 5 deal feels less like genuine criticism and more like some Twitter thread full of misinformation and a personal dislike of Gen 5 being so popular that then got big, and now everyone is regurgitating that same opinion everywhere else.
A concerningly common problem a lot of internet spaces have been having for the past almost decade now.

I won’t say Gen 5 is this grand masterpiece that stand at the pinnacle of writing, but in a franchise that, lets be honest, has had incredibly barebones stories since forever (Bad guys show up for 5 minutes, stop them 6 more times, their evil plan happens all over a timeframe of several hours has been the story of the series for a long time) that when they decided to do something different that does stand out pretty well it was inevitably going to get a lot of praise.
And personally, I think it’s well warranted, I like Gen 5s story and its major characters like the Rivals respective arcs learning about their place in it, and N going from a manipulated pawn of Ghetsis into his own independent person is really nice.

And at this point what criticisms with the story that actually had a leg to stand on have long since had said leg pulled out from underneath them because of time or have long since been talked about by old and new(-ish) fans.
Like the comparison to cock-fighting is a dead horse that’s as old as the franchise itself is and has long since been dealt with by every facet of canon and the fans.
 
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unsure if this is unpopular but im gonna say it anyway. Palworld is probsbly the greatest survival game I've ever played. Game rocks and I think the biggest negative is the lack of pal balancing making competitive teams very predictable. Looking at you orserk.
 
i also think bluntly people already are in the "grr too many people praise alola's story time to take it down a peg" and lowkey half the arguments for it are either "Pokemon fans can't read" or make me recall the forbidden discourse phrase m##i# ##t##ac#
(had to censor it its too much)
Fucking Excuse me?

Gen 7 is finally starting to get the glaze it deserves and people are already starting to pull an "HGSS is overrated" with it?

(also WTH is "m##i# ##t##ac#"?)
 
No Angus, Brendan doesn't have white hair
Bullseye Hit Callout. Still wish it was so but that doesn't crack my top 30 nitpicks on ORAS.

This is the only part of your list I disagree with, largely cuz that aspect leads to heavy misinterpretation or toxic nostalgia. Headcanoning based on limited info (graphical or writing) ...

...Otherwise I agree with your list mostly, but I don't like "vagueness to headcanon" being romanticized. "Imagination left to the player" has unfortunately become a crutch for some writers just not worldbuilding, though the inverse of overly explaining also is true. That said, Pokemon games kind of are just too basic to have the latter largely cuz the player is cardboard + railroaded game design until SV
There's a degree of caution to be used with being too invested in headcanons when looking at shared experiences where they won't apply, but I don't agree with the idea that leaving space for imagination is poor writing. Crafting things with a mind for where players will fill in the blanks on their own is a talent. It only really runs into issues with iteration, where reexaminations can draw harsh lines where fuzzy indecision was deliberately chosen before, which is a problem I don't believe designers should think too hard about.

With all that said, imagine if N in BW1 actually helped the player and strike back at Ghetsis after realizing how evil he is? Instead of the player generically finishing the big bad. Would make him less passive after the climax
Yep. Multi Battle Climax against Ghetsis standing alone, with both Dragons in tow? I'd even accept the player being able to lose to Ghetsis alone and then have N clap back in a cutscene battle or something. Maybe even have Alder do something!

---

here are the main things that plague BW1's design:

1. Stat Creep

...Excadrill...

Yep this one is hard to ignore. Feels like there were some wires crossed on this mon for ingame, it is absurdly strong and also breaks a cardinal gameplay design rule - making it blatantly better to just wait to catch the Evolution later in the game rather than grab the unevolved form and train it up. Getting Drilbur in Twist Mountain at levels 28-31 to evolve it at Level 33 with earlier Earthquake is the optimal way to use the mon by such a wide margin compared to leveling up a Drilbur from Wellspring Cave that it's sort of hard to fathom. (I'd argue the only other case so blatant is Tentacruel in RSE via Surf vs via Old Rod in Dewford Town)

Movepools in BW1 range wildly between dogshit and excellent. Many, again, have movesets that feel reminiscient of Generation 1 design, which really just means weaker and more specific.

This is also true, even if I do think it applies broadly. I'd say that there aren't anywhere near as many of misses in BW1 vs the older games, but they absolutely do exist. Some mons that already would struggle do even worse with shallow level up movepools. (Watchog, Unfezant, Liepard, Accelgor, Maractus)

As for the Grass types, yeah they have a pretty low ceiling in BW1 with just how hostile endgame gets toward them. Elesa being so hostile to Grass types in BW1 is a big deal for their utility in the midgame, and after Clay they do stop having fights to contribute to. It's basically just the spammed Krokorok throughout the Plasma Grunts in Relic Castle and Dragonspire Tower for advantageous matchups. Then Shauntal has a few things worth targeting with Grass moves and there's Carracosta and Seismitoad in the final head to head but those really are the few bright moments among a lot of tough foes.

I do think most of the game's Grass types get just enough to work with to make them worthwhile despite these issues, especially when not playing with high efficiency. The Grass Type association with Scaling is especially strong, as most Grass types in Unova get a strong tool to setup with, be it Growth / Coil Serperior, Curse Ferrothorn, Quiver Dance Lilligant, or Growth + Draining Move combos which several Grass types get very early on. Tools like Leech Seed also help a lot in letting Grass types play into opponents that resist them but don't hit especially hard back - opposing Steel and Dragon types get pretty scary towards endgame and Grass types don't exactly beat them but can often contribute more than other types that get stonewalled by them. Leavanny is the Grass type in the game that takes the longest to gain access to one of these mechanics, not getting Leech Seed at all and waiting until Level 46 for Swords Dance, but funny enough I'd probably agree with you that it does relatively well as an ingame option because it evolves relatively early and has a much better lategame than most Grass types due to its surprisingly solid offensive potential into the E4.

I think teambuilding is really not fun when half the Pokemon need to work 5x harder to be useful in any context than the rest.

This is the place where we diverge because I don't feel like the split is quite this stark. Outside of the pokemon which don't arrive until extremely late into the game, I don't think anything in BW1 struggles so much to feel unusably bad. Patrat and Pidove are pretty bad, but both are kept afloat somewhat by the Return TM. Purrloin is dreadfully bad if used from the start of the game but using Liepard from the midgame on it's just regular bad and at least has some half decent E4 matchups. Maractus mentioned earlier has some extremely unfortunate boss matchups outside of Clay but gets very early access to Giga Drain and has the tools to scale past some of its poor matchups. Yamask, Trubbish, and Cottonee are all very inefficient ingame but between Eviolite and their damage over time tools they have plenty of ways to contribute to difficult fights even when underleveled. A few of the really bad late evolution level cases like Vanillish, Klang, and Mienfoo have been discussed plenty before and in context aren't terrible if they can monopolize Eviolite.

With the best choices, with the exception of Excadrill grabbed during midgame, I think there's an adequate amount of barriers to using the best ingame options. Darmanitan and Archeops might be somewhat ridiculous as glass cannons, but they're still definitely glass cannons and will shatter when played poorly. Haxorus and Scrafty are absurd sweepers but have late evolution levels, are fairly underwhelming until they hit those levels even with Eviolite, and require more favoritism or grinding than many Pokemon that are just OK.

This is a design element most of the boss fights in this game have, they deliberately put the counter right next to the boss. Ever been playing RBY and been like, shit, I don't really have a Pokemon that can resist Electric, lemme go to "Ground Type Cave" and catch Ground Type? Diglett's Cave, I mean.

Almost every single bossfight in BW is like this, made worse that the game's fucking tutorial tries to teach you type advantage with "Explore to the right side of the gym to get a free counter!"

This is a thing BW1 does. Striaton has the Dreamyard Monkey, Nacrene has Throh / Sawk, Castelia has Darumaka, Nimbasa has Sandile, and Mistralton has Zebstrika.

I want to highlight Sandile. While the others do fit the Dugtrio for Surge model closely, Sandile definitely doesn't - and I do specify Sandile because the grinding it needs to get to Krokorok at Level 29 - Elesa's Zebstrika is Level 27 - is a high enough bar of investment to make it not ridiculous for the evolution to solo the fight. For Sandile, a Volt Switch immunity is fantastic and the 50% with Intimidate slowing down Emolga damage is nice, but even with Eviolite Sandile is just too fragile to sustain itself in the face of the neutral hits it needs to deal with, and can't solo the fight without items in battle or some luck. But there's a wrinkle I don't often see mentioned in the form of an effective but unlikely "solution" Pokemon - Dwebble! Stealth Rock at Level 24 is well within the game's expectations for the player, and with the Emolga spamming Volt Switch so often, surviving just one attack to get them up is a very strong set up for the rest of the fight. In fact, for this very kind of strategy, Grass types that can withstand repeated Volt Switches are super important. They can work as a part of an AI bait loop where you pivot the Grass type in on Volt Switch which baits out Aerial Ace / Flame Charge which can easily be handled by most things with decent physical bulk, then in turn baiting another Volt Switch.

Outside those cases, the examples sort of break down. Clay having Grass types available outside his gym isn't especially relevant in this setting because, well, Excadrill is kind of overpowered. Ferroseed and Foongus don't even resist Ground and Rock Slide slams Ducklett and Swadloon. (I don't think it's real to count a 5% swirling grass encounter as a boss exploit though Leavanny would count if you do) Even Deerling which you mention just doesn't do notably well into the fight, as it relies on the Grass Knot TM to do any Grass type in the first place and that barely 2HKOs Paliptoad if you have good IVs. I don't think the other cases quite fit as low investment - Pawniard is just a bit too weak to really take on the Dragon Gym and all of the Druddigon have Revenge anyway, while Brycen is sort of a wet paper towel for most teams that reach him regardless. You mention Durant for the E4 but with how frail it is specially it only really does numbers against Grimsley.

More importantly, I think the design sense around these sort of easy bake solutions does hold some water with the kinds of decision making the designers wanted to influence. A big problem prior games had was that players would very often fall into play patterns of brute forcing their Starter through every challenge. BW introduced some negative reinforcement to this play pattern in the form of the changes to EXP that give penalties when overleveled, but I think supplementing that with positive reinforcement to push players to add Pokemon to their team to take on specific challenges they're struggling with was a smart decision, especially for the early game.

Zebstrika into Skyla is actually the case that I think is the most unwarranted and is pretty weak design in practice. The training wheels are well off at this point, but the solution here is even more simple than it was for fights prior. Even the least impressive Zebstrika caught in Route 7 will be able to use Spark or the mandatory Volt Switch TM to fry Skyla. And it's a shame as well with how many good but less complete solutions there are alongside Zebstrika - Joltik is comparable to Darumaka against Burgh but is even more fragile prior to evolving, while Emolga takes a fair bit more effort to acquire and doesn't always have the raw Speed to escape danger turn by turn. We all kind accept that Brycen is incredibly easy but him aside, Skyla is the boss fight in BW1 that most often feels like a speed bump rather than a meaningful challenge, and I do think that's somewhat of a shame.

It isn't the most elegant solution, and for experienced players the cases for Gyms 1-3 + 5 will stick out like sore thumbs. (I don't even think Darumaka is that bad with how inconsistent and fragile it is but I digress.) But I don't think that it ends up as an invasive design choice for those who don't need it while it comes with some very real benefits for beginners.

Onto the actual world itself, it's mostly bland and carried by Generation 5's excellent art direction and artstyle. People shit on Sun and Moon's linearity and to be fair, I think it is worse than Unova, but Unova is a circle with sometimes "oooh there's twooo paaathhssss", which is my least favorite type of RPG level design, anyways.

BW1's sheer linearity is overwhelming and is a really big hit or miss point with the game. Unlike other games in the series that are linear, BW1's biggest fault isn't so much the lack of other things to do off the main path like in SuMo, it's way more that the way the world map is designed causes the main path's sheer gravity become so intense that it's hard to break off from it without shattering the game's pacing. Contrasting Unova's map where every node has at most 2 connections with no overlapping areas with the interweaving level designs of Kanto, Hoenn, and Sinnoh paints a stark contrast that does not come out favorable for Unova. Consider just how much faster it is to get from Fortree to any part of the left half of Hoenn compared to the absolute slog that is going all the way from Mistralton to Numeva on foot prior to getting Fly. The main reason it doesn't entirely sink the ship to me is that BW1 takes great advantage of being within such a constricted system to provide exceptionally well tuned challenges for the bulk of the game.

Still, with the world design choices and the actual level design choices (removing most forms of mechanical level design from the overworld, greatly simplifying puzzles, removing almost all navigational challenges from the game) it's very clear how deprioritized Overworld Gameplay design was in Gen 5, and so on this...

...but ultimately I think I like the aesthetic of Unova more than it is interesting to explore.

... I agree with wholeheartedly. And it is worse in BW1 than in BW2.

B2W2 has significantly better level design and despite giving up the insular Pokedex, actually way better balancing in my opinion. Yeah, the dogshit Pokemon are still dogshit, but at least the best Unovan Pokemon are now in competition with old good Pokemon, and finding some of them feels more like a dedicated task.

Assuming I'm correctly reading "level design" in reference to the design of areas in the overworld, my gut reaction was to think that BW2's Overworld Design isn't really any better than BW1's. As far as the larger world design is concerned, I still don't think BW2 really improves much with its changes, but as far as Level Design within the overworld is concerned, I didn't realize how much better a lot of BW2 areas got until thinking on it. Virbank Complex, Castelia Sewers, the Strange House, and Route 22 are genuinely a lot better than comparable areas like Wellspring Cave, Cold Storage, The Moor of Icirrrus, and Route 10.
 
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Yep this one is hard to ignore. Feels like there were some wires crossed on this mon for ingame, it is absurdly strong and also breaks a cardinal gameplay design rule - making it blatantly better to just wait to catch the Evolution later in the game rather than grab the unevolved form and train it up. Getting Drilbur in Twist Mountain at levels 28-31 to evolve it at Level 33 with earlier Earthquake is the optimal way to use the mon by such a wide margin compared to leveling up a Drilbur from Wellspring Cave that it's sort of hard to fathom. (I'd argue the only other case so blatant is Tentacruel in RSE via Surf vs via Old Rod in Dewford Town)
This just kind of seems like it was just the result of Wellspring Cave not originally having the dust cloud encounters.
 
Outside those cases, the examples sort of break down. Clay having Grass types available outside his gym isn't especially relevant in this setting because, well, Excadrill is kind of overpowered
this is not really true for the pokemon I was specifically thinking of, Deerling gets Jump Kick by level up, a 100 Power 95 Acc Fighting Move before the gym, and is caught right next to the gym, to be a strong answer into Excadrill. It's a full counter to Clay's team, seemingly on purpose

now its stats aren't great, so the validity of it is somewhat debatable, Clay 100% falls into the "Here is your level designer hand-crafted answer to the gym right next to it"

if you did pick up a deerling and struggled on the gym a bit it'll also evolve (level 34 is just barely above clay), and earlier than that level 32 it gets Energy Ball

thank you for the good reply post i agree w some of your points, disagree with some but yeah i think we mostly agree (your take on level design is basically what i meant, early B2W2 and late B2W2 just feels significantly better in that)

and now back to yapping about story in Pokemon
I won’t say Gen 5 is this grand masterpiece that stand at the pinnacle of writing, but in a franchise that, lets be honest, has had incredibly barebones stories since forever (Bad guys show up for 5 minutes, stop them 6 more times, their evil plan happens all over a timeframe of several hours has been the story of the series for a long time) that when they decided to do something different that does stand out pretty well it was inevitably going to get a lot of praise.
And personally, I think it’s well warranted, I like Gen 5s story and its major characters like the Rivals respective arcs learning about their place in it, and N going from a manipulated pawn of Ghetsis into his own independent person is really nice.
this is gonna be a long ramble but I swear it goes somewhere

I don't think BW1 is even top 3 in terms of giving a shit or trying in its writing. you kind of have to just ignore every game that came out after BW1 besides like SWSH (which is unfinished) to say it's a standout in writing

there are now pokemon games I'd say are genuinely pretty well-written the bar has raised significantly

i'd also disagree that N becomes his own independent person in the context of BW1 because really what happens is he just dips out to go think about things, which is valid, but I would argue he is a straightforward pawn for 99% of the game's runtime. there is no N "character development" he's always got the same motivations and opinions until the very last moment when the rug is pulled from under him

the reason people shit on BW1 for not doing well with the pokemon training ethics shit is because the game's stakes require you to buy-in that this is a real issue but does nothing to actually make it a real issue.

can you remember a single NPC that has an abusive relationship with their Pokemon? can you remember any Pokemon abuse happening on screen? Oh yeah there is one it's fucking Team Plasma in the first hour of play

its not that it doesn't do a good job of beating the allegations it's that it's larping that it is interested in addressing the allegations

in terms of non-N rivals: It doesn't matter Uncle Ben, Silver is better than all of them, though I think Cheren is a bit underlooked as a character. Bianca is very Potential Man and not bad either. I wouldn't say the rivals are particularly bad for the series, but I don't think they're anything crazy.

significantly better than the gender swap rivals and barry, lower than Gary/Silver, better than Kalos ones that came after and better than Hugh. I love B2W2 but Hugh when I replayed it I realized he's such a Nothing character lol

one character I wish we saw more of is Alder. he has a bit of a reputation for being a weak champion and isn't as iconic as the others but I think he actually has a lot of juice and the fact BW1 didn't squeeze it is imo kinda bad.

like, if Alder talked with N in more cutscenes I might like N more since they have something to talk about. Alder had a Pokemon die in his care, N is all about Pokemon training ethics shit

they're both traveling the world thinking about their beliefs but N thinks he has everything figured out while Alder is older and learning things again. Both pursued strength and then at a point in their journeys (Alder after his Pokemon died, N after the rug is pulled by Ghetsis), and I think they would have a lot of character chemistry

part of why I shit on N is because he is talking to YOU, the PLAYER, and yapping. There isn't much to talk about because he's just explaining his beliefs and talking poetically about truths and ideals but not really deeply

i think N has a lot of potential! I do! I don't think the way he was written is good at all! Having a rival be more like the protagonist and antagonistic is very cool, and the things he believes in could be cool to explore.

but that there what I did with Alder? That's just making fanfic. I see the lines from Potential Man to Potential Man and Potential People and my brain goes "Wow I could make a good story out of this!", and while I talk about Alder that is by no means me saying "they needed to do this", it's "Wow wouldn't it be cool if they did something like this".

Generation 5 is the easiest one to make a fanfic about in your head or make lines between everybody because so many characters talk a big game and then don't bring snacks to the party.

that isn't unique, obviously

every pokemon game since generation 4 besides like B2W2/SM/ORAS is basically Potential Man and BW1 is no different except it's put on a pedestal by many as being better than the games after it and being the beginning of the end of pokemon. which yeah. is a reason why people will critique it more directly, and shit, the first few gens barely tried at story at all since we're mostly focusing on that, and Cyrus is a dogshit nothingburger villain!

but more than that it makes me annoyed because I can see where it could've gone better so much. I can fix her: the game. X and Y? Nah I don't think I can fix her. That shit's fucked. It has ideas but almost none of them are good. BW1 is a game I wish I could fix which is why I know so many ways to critique it and do so consistently. It is the most fixable mid Pokemon game and if we're gonna psychoanalyze people's reasons for their opinions, I still think most audiences did mentally fix BW1 in their heads.
 
this is gonna be a long ramble but I swear it goes somewhere
[...]
I said this in a thread a couple months ago or some such but stuff like this is why I really would love a rebooted Pokemon comic series. Put Pokespe out of its misery and start over from Kanto with a completely new creative team. That way they can take their own path completely unchained from the main series' schedule, give each arc as much breathing room as they feel is needed and even incorporate stuff from later games (new DP and XY arcs built as two-parters with their respective Legends games and RS with ORAS elements naturally weaved into the story from the beginning >>>>). I want to see more of these stories fully realized with modern artists at the helm
 
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