I actually like "there is a counter to the gym available nearby" as a design move, at least compared to "there is no available counters to the gym". Diglett Cave and Kalos Route 13 are rather blatant examples of sticking ground-types near an electric gym, but compared to Wattson in RSE, where the only ground types are the Water starter(wut), Nincada(lol), or Geodude(10% encounter on 1 floor of 1 cave), yes, give us an obvious way to find a counter. Or don't, I'd be fine with "there are no counters, train your team better", but that relies on not giving 1/3 of players a win button. And if the gym falls apart due to a counter-type being available, that's more about poor boss design than the encounter locations needing a rework.
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Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter antemortem
- Start date
i mean im already team monotype trainers are bad
ive argued in the past that Cheren is one of the best gym leaders of all-time for being type agnostic and not having any direct counter because even though it's monotype, without obscene grinding there isn't anything that just blows him up by clicking attacks over and over
i simply do not think major bossfights should be that easy or trivialized by walking to the side of the boss
i dont like that in other games either since this isn't necessarily exclusively a pokemon thing
i think trivializing a boss should come from like doing something else of equal weight
Bro really said "what about Kanto"...
I feel like fanfics would do better for immediacy at this point, people will negatively compare to PokeSpe just for it killing it, regardless how flawed post Em PokeSpe is
I feel like the first 3 gyms should be monotyped, then it should break that and be more diversified after, with the E4 or equiv returning to hyper tailored monotypes, then the Champion is diverse
abort that thing NOW!!!
I have seen absolutely zero indication that there is enough of a hardcore fanbase for Pokespe past, like, Diamond & Pearl to where this would be an even vaguely controversial move. If anything about my proposal would irritate people it's starting with Kanto yet again but if suddenly comments sections are swarmed with people mourning that we'll never get Kusaka's take on Winds & Waves I'm just assuming it's 99.9% LARP
My unpopular solution for 90% of "do something with every region" media proposals is to start anywhere but Kanto and then go through in whichever order fits. Start the story in Alola because we can justify the WW mons showing up there, then go to Kalos because that makes a good break from water and the environmentalism themes can be a running throughline, etc. And this works for manga, anime, sidegames, the theoretical "all regions" game, etc. Just pick an order and don't start with Kanto because everyone expects you to.
I am in full agreement!
I just say Kanto because realistically the licenseholders would not allow for anything else
LGPE's decision to simplify the mechanics was a smart one.
I once played the ROM hack Fire Red Rocket Edition, where you play as a talented Rocket grunt rising through the ranks. TR are actually the good guys, rebelling against the corrupt "heroes" that just get involved in illegitimate experiments and conquest. It had a nice story, but swapping the morality of both sides is such a fanfic/comic book cliche that it was a bit off-putting.
This hack also features fairly modern (Gen 6/7) mechanics such as the physical/special script, the fairy type, Gen 6-appropriate learnsets and stat buffs. It only lacks mega stones, but what it has is enough to break the game in half in the typical Kanto environment. Case in point, Butterfree, widely known as a weak Pokemon, becomes genuinely broken with special bug and flying moves as well as Quiver Dance, because sleep is huge even with the nerfs it received, psychic moves are OP, and psychics are the ones to beat in such a poison-heavy region. It also means that fairies become liabilities. And even if megas existed, it would have been even more imbalanced.
It's very hard to balance a Kanto remake with the same mons but new mechanics, which this hack badly failed at, because Kanto was designed with Gen 1 mechanics in mind. FRLG worked because it didn't have a whole lot to introduce, and LGPE worked because it ignored some. You can introduce new mons designed based on more modern mechanics, like adding Starly to the routes with Spearow or Doduo, but it's hard to pick which one would be a better fit, and people will get annoyed because they might dislike the new mon, or that the old mons are made rarer. And now that we have Dexit, it's easy to accept that some mons can only live in certain regions, and even back then it wasn't really a foreign concept in remakes considering Kanto is a heavily urbanized region, making pollution more severe. It's a very difficult balancing act, so I don't think the devs' decision was that wrong.
I once played the ROM hack Fire Red Rocket Edition, where you play as a talented Rocket grunt rising through the ranks. TR are actually the good guys, rebelling against the corrupt "heroes" that just get involved in illegitimate experiments and conquest. It had a nice story, but swapping the morality of both sides is such a fanfic/comic book cliche that it was a bit off-putting.
This hack also features fairly modern (Gen 6/7) mechanics such as the physical/special script, the fairy type, Gen 6-appropriate learnsets and stat buffs. It only lacks mega stones, but what it has is enough to break the game in half in the typical Kanto environment. Case in point, Butterfree, widely known as a weak Pokemon, becomes genuinely broken with special bug and flying moves as well as Quiver Dance, because sleep is huge even with the nerfs it received, psychic moves are OP, and psychics are the ones to beat in such a poison-heavy region. It also means that fairies become liabilities. And even if megas existed, it would have been even more imbalanced.
It's very hard to balance a Kanto remake with the same mons but new mechanics, which this hack badly failed at, because Kanto was designed with Gen 1 mechanics in mind. FRLG worked because it didn't have a whole lot to introduce, and LGPE worked because it ignored some. You can introduce new mons designed based on more modern mechanics, like adding Starly to the routes with Spearow or Doduo, but it's hard to pick which one would be a better fit, and people will get annoyed because they might dislike the new mon, or that the old mons are made rarer. And now that we have Dexit, it's easy to accept that some mons can only live in certain regions, and even back then it wasn't really a foreign concept in remakes considering Kanto is a heavily urbanized region, making pollution more severe. It's a very difficult balancing act, so I don't think the devs' decision was that wrong.
that's not a bad take because your reasoning is wrong but because the idea LGPE made that decision for "balancing" is not really accurate
like we know from junichi masuda's own mouth he wanted that shit to be made for babies. like people say every pokemon game is for kids but he was like "I want this to be a kid's first Pokemon game and be easy" in interviews
LGPE is a game where you can make any Pokemon have better stats than Arceus and your starter is almost as good as a Mewtwo with their unique moves
and now for my opinion on the matter regardless of what masuda said
I also think that removing mechanics to be baby's first Pokemon game has ramifications to be honest. Poison is already a type that has less obvious counters, but you might learn Koffing is weak to Ground. Then you play a regular Pokemon game and that doesn't work and it's not really intuitive at all. I saw this happen watching a 12-year old beat LGPE -> try SWSH
In general he didn't really learn how to play Pokemon from LGPE and found SWSH *too hard* to play without just overleveling. Not making that up he went to grind Max Raids for candies because of the like third gym
Its a case where LGPE has no trial by fire so players are never going to learn anything. And the game isn't good enough to get most hooked to become nerds like us and learn the mechanics and look shit up. I think LGPE is overall a failure
like we know from junichi masuda's own mouth he wanted that shit to be made for babies. like people say every pokemon game is for kids but he was like "I want this to be a kid's first Pokemon game and be easy" in interviews
LGPE is a game where you can make any Pokemon have better stats than Arceus and your starter is almost as good as a Mewtwo with their unique moves
and now for my opinion on the matter regardless of what masuda said
I also think that removing mechanics to be baby's first Pokemon game has ramifications to be honest. Poison is already a type that has less obvious counters, but you might learn Koffing is weak to Ground. Then you play a regular Pokemon game and that doesn't work and it's not really intuitive at all. I saw this happen watching a 12-year old beat LGPE -> try SWSH
In general he didn't really learn how to play Pokemon from LGPE and found SWSH *too hard* to play without just overleveling. Not making that up he went to grind Max Raids for candies because of the like third gym
Its a case where LGPE has no trial by fire so players are never going to learn anything. And the game isn't good enough to get most hooked to become nerds like us and learn the mechanics and look shit up. I think LGPE is overall a failure
Actually that brings me to a new unpopular take which is, of the Popular Kanto Lines/Mascots, Eevee has the most claim to being organically created. The Eevee line never had as much media attention from TPC as Pikachu, Psyduck, Charizard, Gengar, etc. until it was so popular it got to a point where Eevee sits right under Pikachu.
Eevee's rise was significantly organic. If you want to see the actual TPC Attempted Plant, look at Piplup in 2021 when they made it a media objective to make it the third mascot.
Eevee's rise was significantly organic. If you want to see the actual TPC Attempted Plant, look at Piplup in 2021 when they made it a media objective to make it the third mascot.
I'd argue that the organic side wasn't about Eevee specifically. Being able to easily represent nine types across four generations is a unique advantage, and it also makes Eevee a natural choice for when a game like XD or Conquest only has one starter option. Eevee as a gen 1 single mon, as Let's Go used it, is missing the point so hard I've completely dropped Eevee from the list of mons I like being mascots.
people like eeveelutions...
and they like eevee, broadly
its not that complicated. i and many many people bought Let's Go Eevee > Pikachu for Eevee lol
in the 2020 pokemon poll eevee was top 5 in kanto. it was 20th in the general poll, right under pikachu, with both being only 300 votes apart!
people love eeveelutions and they love eevee and they like what eevee represents as well it can all be true
lmao I've never heard it be described like that that's staying in the brain forever
look at what society is doing to our eevees........
I think the GBA Era of the series is the most overrated era of the series if I'm being completely honest.
This isn't me trying to be contrarian or trying to flip off jaded fans for the 386th time, after beating Emerald, I just think the era is just really overhyped.
Like yeah, the addition of abilities, natures, the reworked IV and EV system, the updated box system, and double battles were nice, but besides that the era just feels like the Gameboy era with a fancier coat of paint and a little bit less jank.
You still have limited bag space, you still have no Physical/Special Split, the wild Pokémon are still like 10 levels below your team, the trainer rematch system is still inconsistent (except for the Vs. Seeker in FRLG).
I honestly think if Emerald didn't have the Battle Frontier and/or the cutscene with Rayquaza telling Groudon and Kyogre to fuck off, I think it and the GBA era as a whole would just be viewed by the community as a necessary step forward but dated.
This isn't me trying to be contrarian or trying to flip off jaded fans for the 386th time, after beating Emerald, I just think the era is just really overhyped.
Like yeah, the addition of abilities, natures, the reworked IV and EV system, the updated box system, and double battles were nice, but besides that the era just feels like the Gameboy era with a fancier coat of paint and a little bit less jank.
You still have limited bag space, you still have no Physical/Special Split, the wild Pokémon are still like 10 levels below your team, the trainer rematch system is still inconsistent (except for the Vs. Seeker in FRLG).
I honestly think if Emerald didn't have the Battle Frontier and/or the cutscene with Rayquaza telling Groudon and Kyogre to fuck off, I think it and the GBA era as a whole would just be viewed by the community as a necessary step forward but dated.
Thing about RSE and FRLG is that RSE followed GSC, which were arguably the worst mainline games in the franchise*. RSE both completely revolutionized the mechanics in a way the series wouldn't ever see again, they also avoided the huge list of problems people had with GSC. Of course they were considered remarkable. And then they were followed by DPPt, and DP at least are also remembered as being plagued by issues. Meanwhile, FRLG remade the popular Kanto games, fixed many of the problems with them, and expanded the world/story. The next set of sequels were HGSS, and fixed nothing.
I can see people saying Hoenn fans glaze the GBA games too much, but considering what else the series did in that era, the Hoenn games were legitimately 10x better than anything else the games were doing.
*Debatable, I know, but there are significant issues with the games that overshadow everything else about them.
I can see people saying Hoenn fans glaze the GBA games too much, but considering what else the series did in that era, the Hoenn games were legitimately 10x better than anything else the games were doing.
*Debatable, I know, but there are significant issues with the games that overshadow everything else about them.
I prefer Hoenn over the other Gen 1-4 regions, but it did sadly exemplify an issue of GF being behind graphical and mechanics standard compared to other RPGs. 4 locked directions still, 24/7 clock that on OG GBA isn't visually noticeable AND not properly accounting nat dex trade is bad. The leaks showing the sudden cold feet for Team Aqua being underdogs actually being good to them being equally idiotic like Magma just to prop up a legendary on boxart AND reducing Wally's role for a middling rival makes me sad. Gen 2 and 4's evil teams are whatever, but 3's is just sad
Unfortunately it is better than DP regressing dex count just to be a fucking Gen 1 ref + DPPt map design in general being a downgrade for land terrain. It's awkwardly boxier like Gen 1, and I know the dev vid they said they wanted it to be like a popup book for sprite layering, but I find that an excuse cuz they're too used to tiled map design. The early 3D tests for DP were legit modeled terrain. HGSS is prettier, but still limited, and Gen 5 is visually up to par of other DS titles, but still 4 direction locked. And Gen 5 sadly is aggressively based on Gen 1 again to try to respark interest
I guess in a way, RSE are the most unique of the classic era, before FRLG locked in on Gen 1 nostalgia... :/
Unfortunately it is better than DP regressing dex count just to be a fucking Gen 1 ref + DPPt map design in general being a downgrade for land terrain. It's awkwardly boxier like Gen 1, and I know the dev vid they said they wanted it to be like a popup book for sprite layering, but I find that an excuse cuz they're too used to tiled map design. The early 3D tests for DP were legit modeled terrain. HGSS is prettier, but still limited, and Gen 5 is visually up to par of other DS titles, but still 4 direction locked. And Gen 5 sadly is aggressively based on Gen 1 again to try to respark interest
I guess in a way, RSE are the most unique of the classic era, before FRLG locked in on Gen 1 nostalgia... :/
Taking this bait like its my life's work to bite hooks. I'll get a better hobby someday.
I don't know how hot a take this is but assurances about how good a game is because of the cool things it added to a formula that stuck with that formula are things I do not care for when it comes to analysis on how good games are. Aside from maybe the updated box system, none of these game elements are so clearly positive in and of themselves that they are the kind of thing to sell a game on.
So it's probably no surprise that I am super sour on players who turn their nose up at the Type-Attack / Non-Phys/Spec Split games for simply being as such. I do think the Physical / Special Split was an important change to make for the series in the long term in allowing for the game to expand the scope of potential gameplay designs, but frankly I don't think the Type-Attack system itself makes the games it was a part of lesser in any way. I think the kinds of folks that genuinely get confused about what moves do what are the most baffling to me because if there is any true advantage the Type-Attack system has its making it abundantly simple what attacks use what stat as opposed to the Split system where every attack has an additional binary attached to it. There's even the Eeveelutions + Dragon mnemonic.
And this is a weird angle because aside from the consistent Elite Four difficulty spike there's seldom situations in these games where grinding is encouraged. In particular, I suspect that misapplying Level Caps has done irreparable damage to how these games are perceived. Bosses in these games do not tend to play as intended when players bring a team of Pokemon that are around the same level as the Boss's Ace Pokemon, they tend to play as intended when players just fight a reasonably high quantity (~80%) of the generic enemy trainers they can. There are some wrinkles that can come up, if you try to build a full team of 6 out the gate or use multiple Pokemon with a Slow EXP Group (Ralts + Aron in Gen 3 is a plainly common example I see) you will likely struggle a bit with EXP and especially without a starter will struggle in the early - midgame. That's really about it. RSE are so well tuned that until you start hitting the true bottom of the barrel with things like Goldeen, Slugma, or Nosepass you can get away with using anything as far as EXP is concerned so long as you don't mind some things being incredibly inefficient.
I think this in return does justify noting types that were not strictly intuitive for Type-Category damage, such as Poison, Ghost, and Flying, and that the Eeveelution + Dragon grouping is better to remember once you know the types but does not make the choices more easily guessed on their own beforehand.
Dragon and Dark only add to the confusion because at this time, despite the types having been established for multiple prior Generations, Gamefreak continued to design Mons around the stat their types could not use: Dragonite/Salamence are Physical Attackers with very limited Flying moves and Special Dragons, Gengar line and Misdreavus were special focused with Phys STAB, the bulk of Dark Attackers were Physical if they were not even mixed (which is more confusing when both STABs are special like Cacturne), and Dark moves introduced prior to G4 ALL became Phys despite a Special type.
Heck a really confusing example is Dragon Dance, a Dragon-typed buff move, would not boost Dragon type moves for the offense it increased, or Phys Shadow Ball debuffing Sp Def.
Gamefreak was VERY bad about intuitive mechanical design on the old system regardless of its own merits, as many of these examples present contradictory or opposite signposts to figure the type-stats out. They weren't just weak or deliberately mediocre Pokemon like your Arboks or Victreebels that weren't meant to be optimized swingers, these Pokemon were statted so opposite their toolkit it can convey incorrect ideas about the type system to an out-of-the-know player
I do somewhat agree with the theory(no clue if leaks support or disprove it) that Phys/Special split was at least being discussed/considered before Gen 3 and they decided not to implement it for various reasons. Gen 3 has a lot of mons with biased attacking stats and either mixed STABs or, like Cacturne, both STABs opposed to their good stats. And a decent supply of moves that would swap category next gen. It just seems like a lot of design decisions make a lot more sense if the PS split was being considered while stuff like Salamence were being developed.