• Follow our Instagram!
  • Curious about what we're currently doing about bots? Check out the latest updates from staff in this thread.

Suspect Trademarked Suspect #1: Who Let The Dogs Out (Zacian + Zacian-Crowned)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Clas

Other Metagames Mashups
is a Pre-Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
:zacian::sv/zacian::sv/zacian-crowned::zacian-crowned:
Trademarked is suspect testing Zacian and Zacian-Crowned!​

:zacian-crowned:
In a format where moves are abilities, a one-time Howl and no item slot is pretty pathetic. This can be pretty obviously shown by Zamazenta-C's UR ranking while Zamazenta base is banned thanks to Howl + STAB Close Combat alongside a Choice Band and extremely affluent coverage enabling it to unhealthy degrees. While Zacian-C obviously has a much better base ability in Intrepid Sword, this one-time nature is still very limiting and its Steel and Fairy STABs are much weaker. Not just this, but the Trademarked format sports an unholy number of ways to slow Zacian-C down. Defensive abilities are at the forefront of the metagame, with Reflect Corviknight defining the meta due to its ability to effectively halve the power of all Pokemon on the opposing side, alongside the likes of Withdraw Pecharunt, Iron Defense users like Galarian Slowking and Skarmory, Sinistcha with both its Strength Sap and Iron Defense sets, and the ever-respectable Dondozo also existing. There's also a very present speed control metagame present currently, with the likes of Shift Gear Revavroom, Scary Face Pokemon like Gouging Fire, Ursaluna-BM, and Kyurem, and the litany of Choice Scarf Pokemon like Landorus-T, Great Tusk, Gholdengo, Enamorus, Iron Valiant, Sandy Shocks, and Thundurus-T. This hasn't even taken account the fact that Zacian-C is playing without both an item and an ability if it switches out. The extreme 4MSS Zacian-C has should not be understated, either, with Play Rough being a near-requirement on sets in order to actually make progress. The final point to make is the current state of the tier - Darkrai, Iron Valiant, and Iron Crown are all extremely difficult to answer, and Zacian-C performs excellently into all three as a general rule, although these three all have some way to punish it.

However, there are some obvious issues. For one, it's still Zacian-C, a Steel/Fairy 700BST monster with incredible stats to boot. Not just this, but Zacian-C is able to ignore stat raises and remove screens thanks to its access to Sacred Sword and Psychic Fangs. The real kicker, though, is its access to Swords Dance alongside a 148 Speed stat, something that only Deoxys-Speed, Revavroom, and the niche Hisuian Lilligant, Regieleki, and Oricorio formes outspeed without a Choice Scarf or speed-lowering ability. This access to Swords Dance alongside great bulk and a phenomenal typing can easily make up for its lack of item and heavily awkward ability, letting it set up on most of the format and easily sweep unprepared teams. It shouldn't be ignored that Zacian-C is a phenomenal user of Terastallization, either, being able to either boost its Play Rough to crazy levels, turn Sacred Sword into a real STAB move, or simply run a defensive Tera like Dragon, Ghost, or Water to flip the script on would-be answers.

:zacian:
While Zacian-C excels at sweeping games, Hero Zacian is more well-rounded. A high but not unsurpassable 138 Speed, item and Ability freedom, access to Howl, and a mono-Fairy typing keeps Zacian in the role of a breaker, and the tier certainly has the tools for it. Almost all of Zacian-C's answers apply to Zacian-H, excluding the likes of Ursaluna-BM, Sandy Shocks, and Kyurem, and the mono-Fairy typing is actually very exploitable defensively. While Zacian certainly has access to a litany of moves like Sacred Sword, Psychic Fangs, Crunch, Wild Charge, Crunch, and Swords Dance, it, much like its Crowned variant, struggles with coverage. Pecharunt and Sinistcha both heavily shut down Zacian, Reflect Corviknight really limits the output of Zacian, Galarian Slowking effectively hardcounters, Revavroom can generally use Zacian as a free switch-in, and more. Most of Zacian-H's checks are the same as Zacian-C, just without the Steel typing, so explanations are less necessary. The main changes are that Dragapult, the tier's most prolific progress maker, can outspeed and potentially remove or neuter Zacian and Deoxys-Speed can outright OHKO Zacian.

This similarity to Zac-C does cross over to its problematic elements, though. Not having a Steel typing is, in some ways, a very minor tradeoff, with Zacian's item freedom letting it skyrocket past Zacian-C's damage and ability freedom letting it limit its checks and counters. Swords Dance Life Orb sets are absolutely terrifying, especially when considering Zacian's access to Iron Defense as a sidegrade, letting it be a very deadly threat that can quickly snowball out of control if not respected at the cost of significantly less power, bulk, or both. The combination of Play Rough, Sacred Sword, and Psychic Fangs is also very difficult to answer, with only the likes of Galarian Slowking, Sinistcha, and Dondozo safely countering these. Once again, there is also Terastallization to consider, although Zac-H has fewer solid options due to Fairy being a fairly easy type to hit neutrally.

In the end, it comes down to the perspective of you, the player. Do you believe that Zacian and Zacian-Crowned are healthy enough to introduce to the tier? Or do you believe that they are too oppressive to be legalized?


SUSPECT REQUIREMENTS​

The instructions to participate in this retest are as follows:
  • Create a new account on PS. You do not have to follow any specific naming convention, but your suspect account must have never played a game in SV Trademarked before this suspect test went up or you will not receive valid requirements (resetting W-L does not count for this—the account you use must never have played Trademarked before the test, full stop.)
    • You can use /rank to check if your alt is allowed to get requirements. Whenever in doubt, type /rank and it will tell confirm if you are eligible or not
  • At any point on your new account, use the command /linksmogon on Pokemon Showdown! You will receive instructions on what to do once you run this command
  • Double check that you're listed as a voter here! If you aren't listed as a voter despite having valid reqs, please contact dhelmise, Giagantic, or any other OM Staff member
  • If you have any questions about this new process, feel free to PM dhelmise!
The requirement to vote in this suspect test is a COIL value of 2850 (with a B value of 2). The deadline for getting requirements will be <t:1787803140:R>.

Voting:
Once the suspect period is over, everyone who has obtained reqs will be tagged. The post will contain the link for blind voting. For now, follow the above "Suspect Requirements" subheading to ensure that you have achieved requirements and linked your account.

A majority of 60% unban votes are required to unban Zacian and Zacian-Crowned in Trademarked!

TL;DR:
- Zacian and Zacian-Crowned are being suspect tested
- The needed COIL value is 2850, with a B value of 2
- You can ladder on any name, as long as you have never laddered Trademarked with it.
- You must link your suspect alt with your Smogon account using /linksmogon
- You have untill <t:1787803140:R> to get reqs
 
Last edited:
First reqs achieved!

Screenshot 2026-08-12 221556.png

:zacian-crowned: :sinistcha: :Sandy-Shocks: :Deoxys-speed: :ceruledge: :Darkrai:

I played all of my games with Zacian-Crowned to feel it out, and I stand with my gut feeling. This mon feels incredibly strong. Despite having a one-time howl for an ability, it's got an excellent 150 attack and a blistering speed tier at 148. A coveted Fairy/Steel typing alongside 92/115/115 natural bulk means speed control like Scarf Valiant and Darkrai or Deoxys-Speed struggle to revenge kill Zacian-Crowned without lots of chip damage (Healthy Zacian-crowned can live Modest Specs Earth Power from Kyurem!).

Zacian has a wide movepool and despite not being able to fit answers for all its checks its numerous sets can take advantage of many of its checks.
I chose Substitute + Tera Ghost to take advantage of the fact that Zacian-Crowned resists Corviknight's Brave Bird, turning Brave Bird Corviknight into set-up fodder. Tera Ghost turns the tides on Iron Defense + Body Press Corviknight, again using it as setup fodder. Tera Blast Ghost has excellent coverage along side Play Rough, and its non-contact nature means Corviknight can't chip Zacian with Rocky Helmet.

While this set is extremely tera-reliant, it has performed quite well, abusing defensive staples like Alomomola and Corviknight, and was able to blast past defensive pokemon like Sinistcha and Slowking-Galar.

Other sets using different coverage or tera types muddy the water even more, and Zacian-Crowned has felt incredibly opressive for offense due to its great speed and bulk.

While I haven't used Zacian-Hero as extensively, it appears also trememdously threatening. Lower attack and speed balance it out, but the ability to hold an item lets it make up for much of its attack drop with Choice Band or Life Orb.

Many of its checks fear a boosted Crunch, especially if boosted by Tera Dark, with Withdraw Pecharunt dropping to two Tera Dark choice band crunches.
Strength Sap Sinistcha can scout Choice Band variants quite well, but get trucked by Swords Dance variants.
Corviknight is an effective wall to many of Zacian's sets, but Magnezone or pressure by other threats like Ogerpon-Wellspring can force it to tera and lose a lot of its effectiveness.

While I haven't used it myself in favor of the Zacian-Crowned variant, I'm sure Substitute + Swords Dance sets with Play Rough and Tera Blast Ghost would also be incredibly effective and would love to see others try it out. As a bonus, Zacian-Hero can use Iron Defense as a Trademarked jackings its physical bulk to great levels, letting it more easily duel Great Tusk that has terad for example.
Leftovers are also amazing, letting it recoup lost health from Substitutes.

Overall, Zacian's great speed, power, and movepool make it a prime Tera candidate that lets it take advantage or blow up of many its checks and I will be voting to keep it banned, perhaps if Tera is banned I would reconsider, but at the current state I believe it is far too oppressive.
 
1786591246530.png


Here is the team I used for suspect reqs:
:meowscarada::zapdos::alomomola::great tusk::landorus::deoxys-speed:

I hate both Zacian and Zacian-Crowned. I believe that the only thing both of them do is just further centralize the usage of Reflect and Corviknight, yet even those can easily be muscled past. The Zacians can easily pick and choose what type of wall they want to defeat. You want to wallbreak? Use Choice Banded Howl Play Rough, 2HKOing Alomomola and having Tera Blast Ground to destroy Pecharunt. You want to be a setup sweeper? Use Swords Dance Zacian-Crowned and easily surprise your opponent with a secret Tera Blast, Close Combat, or whatever coverage move you choose. It might not even be Choice Banded Zacian, but Swords Dance Zacian with Heavy Duty Boots carrying Wild Charge getting ready to absolutely destroy your Alomomola. The only Pokemon that can probably stop most of Zacian's ridiculous sets is Corviknight, and even that gets goobed by Tera Blast Ghost, as pointed out by sleepyfwog.

+1 252 Atk Choice Band Zacian Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 259-306 (48.5 - 57.3%) -- 91.8% chance to 2HKO
+1 252 Atk Choice Band Tera Ground Zacian Tera Blast (80 BP) vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Pecharunt: 192-228 (50.5 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Zacian-Crowned is also immune to Poison and resists rocks, making hazard gameplay nearly ineffective against it. This is a massive issue when the vast majority of offensive Pokemon are both weak to Zacian and slower than it. The same could be said for Iron Valiant, but Zacian doesn't have to deal with Assault Vest healers like Milotic or Fezandipiti or Light Screen Blissey/Slowking-Galar. In addition, Iron Valiant itself is in constant competition with Darkrai, who is faster but has worse coverage, and can be checked by Meowscarada. Compare that to Zacian-Crowned, whose best counter is Reflect/Iron Defense Corviknight, doesn't have to face instant healing Pokemon, is only checked by Deoxys-Speed (and maybe Revavroom I guess? Choice Banded Gunk Shot can easily be abused, though), and still has the best offensive type in the game.

This dog can go straight back to the Ubers animal shelter. I'm voting ban, and if Tera is banned, I'm still voting ban.
 
CEC0CC98-BD5A-4829-A9F9-E722FB61635E.jpeg

this was not fun

i think zacc isnt broken like period every zacc ive ran into and every single time ive ran zacc it was always very underwhelming especially without tera. shes also super easy to cheese with one of the 5 million random scarfers, or shift gear revavroom, or even just classic defensive guys like mola/reflect corv/sap sinistcha (zacc can beat those but it comes down to 4mss or getting rk'd by some guy right after in my experience). easy dnb for me on her. i think there are worse things that should be banned right now such as shift gear revavroom. this guy is the most ridiculous pokemon ive used in any meta and it genuinely just outclasses zacc in terms of raw wallbreaking. recovery moves as trademark is also stupid btw what the fuck do you mean sinistcha just walls roaring moon and meowscarada
i think zac-h is better because she can actually trademark some bullshit move like howl or idef or whatever and have an item but i didnt encounter any during my run so i dont really have an opinion on her

btw ban accuracy reducing moves and evasion items i dont fucking care if "they're bad just switch out" or "just knock the item off" theyre cheese and i want them gone
 
1786632586077.png

Used a bunch of teams, Zac-C is giga fish and tera-reliant while Zac-H is just fair. Also faced TB Ghost Zac-C like 3 times and always won, you just gotta respect it.

:zacian::iron-crown::iron-moth::roaring-moon::corviknight::palossand: SDLO Zac-H TSpikes Bulky Balance (kinda shit)
:walking-wake::ogerpon-wellspring::slowking-galar::zapdos::ting-lu::great-tusk: Growth Wellspring Balance (example of how to synergise breakers, even if its an imperfect team)
:zacian-crowned::ceruledge::latios::great-tusk::milotic::corviknight: Zac-C Ladderslop (also kinda bad BUT CERULEDGE IS NOT)
:regieleki::blissey::clodsire::alomomola::corviknight::zapdos-galar: GZap Eleki Hazstack Fat (goated team, gzap 2hkoes most of the tier and all w/ spikes supp but blissey is kinda do-nothing)
:zacian::iron-crown::iron-moth::roaring-moon::corviknight::palossand:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9trademarked-2664017261?p2

:walking-wake::ogerpon-wellspring::slowking-galar::zapdos::ting-lu::great-tusk:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9trademarked-2664029743
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9trademarked-2664024770-vrpdkwn4a2j9guocs4spkorervkv9h2pw?p2 lost bc bad zap tera (changed to steel now) and poor glowking sac w/ no way to make progress left

:zacian-crowned::ceruledge::latios::great-tusk::milotic::corviknight:
i forgot to get some LMAO but ceruledge was doing numbers and zac-c was sometimes there too ig

:regieleki::blissey::clodsire::alomomola::corviknight::zapdos-galar:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9trademarked-2664274400?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9trademarked-2664272540-hslgkycgkmq6r2jljmf5u22cvuiq0d1pw?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9trademarked-2664277602?p2 (final game for reqs)

:zacian:
This one feels fine and actually pretty flexible. The issue is that it's got the worst 4MSS ever to be seen, including within the same move typing. Play Rough is required, PFangs lets you actually remove screens which is super important, CC is stronger than SSword but doesnt ignore stat rises, Wild Charge hits Alo and Corv but also chips you for god knows how much, Crunch specifically targets Glowking and Sinistcha, and Tera Blast is there too but I don't respect it on SD Howl sets.

The issue that Zacian faces is that it's pathetically easy to chip. You don't need a particularly sturdy defensive core for Zacian because Play Rough is such a horrible solo STAB to have that it doesn't matter. It doesn't get Knock Off, it doesn't get a second STAB, and it's entire kit is contact. It can easily succeed with the right support, mind you, but it's very similar to CB Meow in that you'll find other things are better at breaking. SDLO sets are decent, but they are still reliant on predictions and the 4MSS is even more present - this is not a good thing for an SD user.

:zacian-crowned:
This guy is even worse, but at least it has a better base typing and Speed stat. The only good set for breaking/sweeping is Tera Blast Ghost Substitute. You can run other sets, but this set is the only one that does anything that isn't clean up games. Behemoth Blade would be nice to run, but it physically hits nothing on SD sets that you would want to hit. I'd only ever splash Zac-C on if a team needs a cleaner with good bulk and defensive typing, because it's honestly good at that.

I do want to talk about Tera Blast Zac-C though. It feels a little unhealthy? Like it's not that good a set but it really feels like matchup fish turned up to 11. I'm still voting unban, but I'd like to at least see Tera Blast go. I've felt that way on a few Pokemon now (especially Regieleki and Shocks), and it makes the game much harder to play. I think Tera itself is a healthy presence overall; being able to play flexibly depending on the matchup feels like skill expression in the game and builder. I just don't like the whole "actually you don't answer me" thing that comes from Tera Blast.


Anyway, I want to talk about some actually good breakers and cleaners to compare Zac-C to. Namely, these guys:
:ceruledge::cinderace::zapdos-galar::infernape::dragapult::ogerpon-wellspring::iron-valiant::darkrai::walking-wake::iron-crown::deoxys-speed::revavroom::thundurus-therian:

Group 1: Pure breakers (:ceruledge::zapdos-galar::ogerpon-wellspring::darkrai::iron-crown::thundurus-therian:)
These guys actually are able to remove walls. Ceruledge and GZap are the most extreme of these, where they aim to deal as much damage as possible, boosted further by STAB Tera if they so choose. Wellspring has Growth + Focus Energy, letting it stallbreak incredibly effectively but also it can pair with Rain to be completely unwallable without Disable support. Iron Crown is the best Psyshock user in the tier for pure wallbreaking, 2HKOing Blissey through Light Screen and blasting Ting-Lu and friends without issue. Darkrai and Wake are more of a middleground between Wellspring and Crown, using their access to Knock Off to weaken walls first before demolishing them later on. Thundurus is pretty similar to Darkrai and Wake, but can start ripping holes from the get-go if it chooses to since most teams don't actually have a good matchup into it outside of setting rocks early.

Group 2: Wallbreaking cleaners (:iron-valiant::infernape::revavroom::deoxys-speed::dragapult:)
These guys can wallbreak if necessary, but they're here to primarily revenge kill or clean games up. Iron Valiant, Deoxys-Speed, and Revavroom are the most well-known of these, with them all having good priority access or great Speed alongside good boosting moves, although CB is not the best set on Revavroom. Infernape is very similar to Scarf IVal, but it has a better typing for the meta in Fire/Fighting which lets it succeed as a respectable mixed breaker as long as there's something for Alomomola. Dragapult might be a surprise to see, but its standard mixed LO set is incredibly hard to answer thanks to Infiltrator ignoring screens.

Now, where would I put Zac-H and Zac-C? Group 2. They're both fast but comparatively weak as pure breakers, but can really cause problems in the late-game. The real kicker is, again, the STABs are so weak that any coverage is really doing the heavy-lifting, and that coverage has its own problems. They're good, yes, but not overwhelmingly so.


TL;DR Zac-C is either fishy or mediocre until endgame and Zac-H is generally healthy. Voting unban for both.
 
Last edited:
First time getting reqs for a suspect bcz I just love the Metagame so much

:ceruledge: :corviknight::milotic: :revavroom: :iron-valiant: :great-tusk:

:ceruledge: is a mon that I'm actually shocked that we don't see way more often, there's like no non normal non :ting-lu: mon that can comfortably switch into Tera Ghost Poltergeist, even if you are using Haze it's still chunks whatever is coming making sure it can't come in again

252 Atk Life Orb Tera Ghost Ceruledge Poltergeist vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 161-192 (53.1 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The first set was Band but Protect Disable spam is getting on my nerves lately and Life Orb allows flexibility of moves,
Standard defensive core of Reflect :corviknight: and Regenvest :milotic:, Disable :iron-valiant: bcz Disable is just broken slop (you can't convince me otherwise) and ofc :revavroom: bcz it's just that good.

What do I even say about :zacian: ? Bro is so tera reliant to break literally anything, I have ran Revavroom on literally every team since the start of the month so there's bias but if your stupid heal spam team is struggling with Zacian then that's just a case of particular Pokemon beating certain teams better than others,
I would still vote ban tho bcz this whole thing is completely unnecessary
As previously said before me, we have bigger fish to fry (heal spam NEEDS TO GO)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
first time getting recs pls tell me if i did this wrong :(

imo :zacian: is fine and the other breakers in the meta tend to do way more. :zacian: gets stopped dead by :corviknight: and the many other physical walls

https://pokepast.es/f9fe67b811c7618b < - team

enam is kind of bad imo its a tad slow but it makes up for it in sheer offensive power

:corviknight: good

:sinistcha: broken

i stole this :great-tusk: spread from this thread LOL its a fun set

:milotic: good it might be a bit too good but its healthy. good bulky water

:ceruledge: good

:zacian: can be threatening when it appears but it requires assisted breaking by its teammates

:zacian-crowned: was seen once and it died immediately LOL. mon cant do anything

do not ban for both.

:sinistcha: needs to go btw this mon feels so cheap
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot 2026-08-16 21.15.11.png
    Screenshot 2026-08-16 21.15.11.png
    14 KB · Views: 61
View attachment 856051First time getting reqs for a suspect bcz I just love the Metagame so much

:ceruledge: :corviknight::milotic: :revavroom: :iron-valiant: :great-tusk:

:ceruledge: is a mon that I'm actually shocked that we don't see way more often, there's like no non normal non :ting-lu: mon that can comfortably switch into Tera Ghost Poltergeist, even if you are using Haze it's still chunks whatever is coming making sure it can't come in again

252 Atk Life Orb Tera Ghost Ceruledge Poltergeist vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 161-192 (53.1 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The first set was Band but Protect Disable spam is getting on my nerves lately and Life Orb allows flexibility of moves,
Standard defensive core of Reflect :corviknight: and Regenvest :milotic:, Disable :iron-valiant: bcz Disable is just broken slop (you can't convince me otherwise) and ofc :revavroom: bcz it's just that good.

What do I even say about :zacian: ? Bro is so tera reliant to break literally anything, I have ran Revavroom on literally every team since the start of the month so there's bias but if your stupid heal spam team is struggling with Zacian then that's just a case of particular Pokemon beating certain teams better than others,
I would still vote ban tho bcz this whole thing is completely unnecessary
As previously said before me, we have bigger fish to fry (heal spam NEEDS TO GO)
No shade but not voting for an unban despite it being okay in the metagame in your opinion because you want something else banned is just stupid, Why are u voting in this supect test then if you dont care about this? I dont understand it at all.

Anyway In my opinion Zacian Crowned is terrible, the only thing it can do is sub and sd with its bulk and its really bad at that too as hero form outclasses it in every aspect imo. Zacian hero feels good and weird at the same time, the only set i liked on it was tera blast ghost +sub sd. You can sub up on corviknight and many mons and sd up and it feels nice to play with. IMO, Zacian is healthy for this metagame as it prevents really fat teams while also being mid against other things and having hard checks but im not sure if as time goes on and other things get banned if its going to be that healthy since sub + sd with really good speed and good bulk is scary. Crowned is ass and idc about him.
I vote Unban for both.
Heres the team i used: https://pokepast.es/e9ae44ddb1d87823
also revaroom is too op, multiple recover mons are too op
1786906766073.png
 
Last edited:
I would still vote ban tho bcz this whole thing is completely unnecessary
I completely agree with

No shade but not voting for an unban despite it being okay in the metagame in your opinion because you want something else banned is just stupid, Why are u voting in this supect test then if you dont care about this? I dont understand it at all.
this.

You should not be judging these mons based on whether you think this suspect should have been a priority, but based on how they perform and how the meta fares against them. Anything else is irrelevant.
 
Is there a specific reason why this suspect post says that both Zacian-Crowned and Zacian are being tested, yet the actual voting page only mentions that this suspect is for Zacian-Crowned? If someone votes differently because of this discrepancy, it wouldn't properly represent what the community thinks of both Zacian and Zacian-Crowned.
 
Is there a specific reason why this suspect post says that both Zacian-Crowned and Zacian are being tested, yet the actual voting page only mentions that this suspect is for Zacian-Crowned? If someone votes differently because of this discrepancy, it wouldn't properly represent what the community thinks of both Zacian and Zacian-Crowned.
this is going to be fixed dw
 
:zacian-crowned: Let it stay, good late game sweeper but overall just kinda mid if forced out. played a few and they wild charge a corve and die might have some defensive value too with its typing. unless a tech or team really pushes it ill probably be saying unban

:zacian: threating monster with howl, sd, tera fire/ground can really tear through most teams if you aren't carrying multiple answers for it. I dont like how restrictive it feels when building anything that isnt hyper offense or extreme bulk.
 
Holy crap. Hero form needs to go. It is way to restrictive on builder with SD sets and banded. It needs support and does less immediate raw damage than shift gear banded rev, but that thing can't get any stronger and is easily walled (unlike SD). Hero form can completely invalidate most typical balance teambuilding principles. It is causing too many builds to become way more HO or Stall as a result.

Crown on the other hand is meh. Like it *can* win some endgames if it's saved but you have to preserve it and it has more options to deal with it so it doesn't pressure you to build into one of the extremes nearly as much.

We need a healthy amount of viable archatypes and right now there just aren't. I think this is directly attributed to Spikes ban and multi-regen TM's being allowed. Zac is the catalyst that tips the scale for me and I don't want to vote in a way that assumes a fix to regen down the line. As such I believe it best to muzzle the hero form.



Please pardon my quick aside to talk about the process
This was not as fun as playing with spikes. Idk why there was not a formal process to ban it and we let one person decide. I know that some vauge outside info was gotten but still it feels rushed and I will try to nicely explain why I think so.

Heal moves aren't too splashable without significant cost right now. Milotic is very good, yes, and Sinistcha is genuinely borderline broken, but the more heal move users there are the more the team suffers when it comes to true defensive abilities (IDef/Amnesia, Screens, Disable etc).

This is the thought process behind the only person that voted, and I don't fault anyone for feeling this might be the case but I want to offer some counter evidence (See below).

Informal consultation is not a substitute for an actual, recorded council vote, especially on a restriction affecting a foundational mechanic. I saw no explanation for why the decision could not wait until more council members had voted.

:Pecharunt::Quaquaval::Ting-Lu::Corviknight::Sinistcha::Ditto: This is a worse version of the team currently rank 1 on the ladder (I yoinked part of it after running into them and figured the rest out). I used it for my reqs. This team lost the mirror against it's better built cousin by Lavender Vice and 1 game I got crit while also playing too fast and loose.
1787285205807.png
 
1787368582057.png


First time doing a suspect test, please let me know if I've done anything wrong! (I didn't know how to sort the /rank for a single format, I'm just going off it saying my suspect reqs are possible for trademarked- very much a newbie to suspect tests). I don't believe I had played any games of Trademarked on this account before the suspect test went live.

https://pokepast.es/c8718f891c9d9e05

The team I used above, I've already posted about it on the forums. Basic Heal Spam Stall focused on wittling the opponent's resources down with passive damage while never dying.

Both Zacians feel fine to me. Zacian-Crowned is the more annoying of the two imo, very matchup fishy and because of it having a one time Atk boost it lends itself to forcing niche weird sets like sub SD Tera Ghost or Fire with bulk from what I've seen. At the same time though, if forced out (which is very easy for defensive teams) it just does literally piss all the rest of the game.

Regardless both Crowned and Hero are MASSIVE tera hogs and get walled incredibly easily without it by almost every single common physical wall in the format like Corvi, Pecha, Sin, Hippo, etc. being almost completely unable to force progress unless you swords dance (which once again, any defensive team worth their salt has either a haze/unaware mon, heart swap Manaphy or Ditto which just completely neuters it), and even at +3, without Tera Zacian can't break through the most common physical wall in Pecha.

Zacian-H is alright enough as a wallbreaker with Howl CB, but still is walled very easily and the only thing it REALLY has going for it compared to other attackers is its very potent speed tier. It is also incredibly prone to being worn down via Hazards and Helmet damage.

TLDR: Keep Unbanned for both, they aren't anything special outside of their speed compared to the rest of the format, and require tera to not be helpless into basically every single defensive mon in the fornat.
 
holy shit i have a love hate relationship with this meta
got reqs so i'll post my thoughts and/or opinions on the zacian forms as well as other tiering decisions

first and formost there was unbelievable shit in my run, it was unfortunately the singlehandedly most painful thing ive done on pokemon showdown. the meta itself is really great its just i do not want to get one turn wrong and lose to skill swap ingrain, etc

:ss/zacian::ss/zacian-crowned:
these guys are ok, they're not bad but they're not good. they are pretty equal, one has advantages over the other, etc. but it is not banworthy. their best set is sub sd play rough + tera blast and the big things are
  • it restricts tera (mono play rough is not breaking shit), nor is the combination of steel+fairy
  • its sub is really bad, really only catches bad stall off guard/cleans up lategame with a worn out and tired defensive core
  • if you get 6-0ed by this, you should reconsider your team
if you prep for it adequately, and i hope that you do, it should not be a problem.
:zacian: Zacian @ Leftovers/Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Howl
Tera Type: Fire/Ghost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Play Rough
- Swords Dance
- Tera Blast

it would be intrepid sword and rusted sword if you want crowned
crowned form's really only advantage is the steel typing which helps it defensively so poison moves can't break it. also ensures you dont get poisoned by toxic spikes. however it restricts item, and lefties is very good for healing and hdb is good for other hazards. its slightly stronger too but you have a one time attack boost. anyways, 4a could be a thing but without subsitute (mentioned below) its nothing.

voting dnb for both

:sv/revavroom:
again, same story, if ur losing to it, reconsider your team. yes +1 attack +2 speed on switchin is annoying but this guy literally cant break physical defense corv if you play well. its fine.

other

substitute
is very annoying. if you want to ban zac(c) and you find that its sub set is annoying, why not ban substitute? theres other countless subsitute setup guys that i guarantee you are just as annoying, including manaphy and sinistcha. i really want this move gone

sinistcha is broken. he can utilize substitute (mentioned above) to click calm mind and sweep. strength sap is also god tier healing on switchin and this teapot is very very strong. currently people have been dealing with it by
  • out offensing it if they get lucky with the right mu with guys like regieleki
  • dragon tail milotic as a temporary solution in hopes it gets poisoned or chipped by rocks or whatever
well guess what? he can tera fairy and be immune to dtail. he can sub and good luck breaking his sub with min attack milotic. or he tera waters and gets an amazing defensive typing. its also very splashable on many archetypes, stall, semistall, offence, etc

skill swap ingrain fuck this fuck this fuck this, this is just trapping, and you get feather dance or eerie impulse boost all the way with sub and setup and sweep no skill strat that loses if you get one turn wrong. idc you tera ghost or ur shenanigans, it wont work for long, soak stops innate ghosts

lastly, i want to wrap this long winded post by saying meta is really cool, would love to see it in the future no matter how much i hate ladder. got inspired to play so s/o rightclicker, Clas, and sleepyfwog, s/o Lavender Vice and Clas for teams that i used (heal spam stall is very good, i changed tera types), and the rain team from Clas is very good you can find it above!)
 
1787436378862.png

Hello everyone! I recently got reqs with a record of 18-1 (the loss was to a Sand Attack Staraptor, guess what happened). I did it with a very cool offence team featuring Zacian-C, but really the offensive core of Cinderace+Walking Wake was the part that won the most games.
https://pokepast.es/c0667d0e30bbae00

zacian-crowned.gif

Zacian-Crowned felt balanced, it could definitely take advantage of certain defensive pieces and spam SD and break through with Sacred Sword or just Behemoth Blade, even beating Sinistcha and Corviknight in certain situations. That said, you can revenge it. You can wall it. You just need to play well and imo who the better player and teambuilder is determines how much value Zacian-Crowned gets.


zacian.gif

While I didn’t face many Zacian-Hero, with my Pecharunt, Corviknight, and Scarf Tera Fire Wake, it never got much value when I did face it. I also didn’t use it either. But the thing is Zamazenta-Hero is banned, Zacian-Hero has the same stats, better movepool, and with Tera it can be the same type too (though it can viably run like half the types in the game). I think Zacian-H would kinda force certain defensive walls onto teams or push teams to HO to handle it because of its immediate power and ability to repeatedly come in thanks to Howl over Intrepid Sword, making it restrictive in the builder and generally pushing the meta in a more annoying and centralized direction.

I would provide more detailed thoughts, but I was writing in the notes app and right as I was about to post the entire thing disappeared, so I’m not writing everything out again.

TLDR: Zacian-Crowned is balanced because you need to set up and only have one shot at sweeping, meaning positioning is key and therefore you need skilled play to let it sweep in most cases.
Zacian-Hero is probably not insanely broken, but (imo) would be restrictive on teambuilding and generally annoying and unhealthy.
 
Screenshot 2026-08-22 at 11.47.35 AM.png

I only faced one Zacian-Hero during the climb! Given I played later into the suspect test, I may have a different view than others.

MY SUSPECT TEAM: :gliscor::blissey::milotic::corviknight::umbreon::pecharunt:

Teams to try out:
Imprison Zacian-Hero: :zacian::roaring-moon::ceruledge::milotic::corviknight::hippowdon:
Zacian-Crowned HO: :zacian-crowned::ceruledge::deoxys-speed::darkrai::landorus-therian::regieleki:

:zacian:: It seems most people have a consensus that this is the stronger of the two forms. Its stats are great; the speed keeps fast threats like Darkrai in check, it has solid bulk, and the attack is serviceable. The most common abilities are Howl and Iron Defense, with the former helping Zacian hit hard in junction with Choice Band or Life Orb SD, and the latter making SD sets more viable. The set people have mentioned of Sub / SD / Play Rough / Tera Blast Ghost felt pretty terrible to use as it's matchup-fishy and only realistically fits on hyper offense while being outclassed by other Tera Blast users (i.e. Regieleki). There are underexplored sets like Imprison + Iron Defense that allow SD Zacian to sweep more effectively against would-be checks without being reliant on tera, making it more splashable on teams (I linked an example team above if you'd like to try). In terms of power, Zacian-Hero feels quite manageable in the metagame with most defensive cores handling it well and most offensive cores having the tools to limit Zacian. It fits on most teamstyles, ranging from offense to balance.

:zacian-crowned:: Take away most of the positive attributes about Zacian-Hero that make it viable to use, and you're left with Zacian-Crowned. In exchange for an item slot and a different ability, you get a Fairy/Steel typing, access to 100 BP Behemoth Blade, 30 extra attack, and 10 extra speed. In effect, you get an amazing new typing both offensively and defensively, a slightly stronger attack, a 17.7% damage increase assuming you're fully invested Jolly, and the ability to outspeed Dragapult. The only consistently worthwhile buff of those four is the typing, and the tradeoff is a net negative in a metagame where having an ability is everything. After switching out, you're weaker than Howl Zacian by a solid margin, so it incentivizes you to stay in for as long as possible; in essence, you have to be a setup sweeper that is never pressured to switch and tries to at least either a) trade evenly or positively, or b) clean up in the end game. This somewhat forces it to be exclusively on hyper offense. Even then, it's so hard to do anything with Zacian if the opponent has a well-structured team. Its speed is great into an opposing hyper offense matchup, but against any team with bulk, it'll be hard to get Zacian going. It needs to be +3 to be threatening, and only once chance to set up is hard. I don't think it's very good. I made a team with it if you want to try it out. Zacian-C is strong into offensive structures and pretty bad into defensive structures.

How will I vote? Leaning unban on both, but I'm not entirely sure yet.

I do believe that both are balanced, but what exactly do they do for the metagame? A key part of unbanning something is that it should be with the intent of making the tier more competitive. Whether that happens or not is difficult to determine, but we can make educated guesses. I believe that both Zacian forms will lead to a decline in balance in favor of offense and stall. In my experience, offense is too strong for balance to handle, and stall is too difficult for balance to break. Zacian-C gives HO an extra option. Zacian-H can be on balance but will not change things up much, as it does not pressure a well-made fat team and only slightly pressures offense with Iron Defense sets. Fortunately they don't introduce any uncompetitive elements outside of the occasional Play Rough miss or attack drop, so that's a positive for them. They're just in a weird spot where they won't be healthy or unhealthy additions to the metagame, they just kind of exist.

Overall the meta is in an ok spot, and I doubt banning or unbanning the dogs will make much a difference. :zacian::zacian-crowned::zacian::zacian-crowned:
 
finally got reqs, please don't look at my w/l I played horribly on ladder.
Zacian-C felt pretty balanced, yet it's real fast and strong but I feel like most teams have reasonable counterplay without having to do too much specific prep in the builder. totally voting to unban this one

Base Zacian im a little more split it still has an amazing speed tier and being able to actually benefit from Trademarked and hold an item make it really good. still think itsnot impossible to play around it and it not being Steel-type makes chipping it way easier. leaning towards dnb but not totally sure how I feel about this one
 

https://www.smogon.com/tools/suspects/view/241 - zacian-crowned voting
https://www.smogon.com/tools/suspects/view/250 - zacian voting

60% of the votes (16 votes) will need to be unban votes to unban zacian-crowned and zacian from trademarked.

Voting deadline: <t:1788062340:R>

If you are not on this list and should be, please DM me
 

https://www.smogon.com/tools/suspects/view/241 - zacian-crowned voting
https://www.smogon.com/tools/suspects/view/250 - zacian voting

60% of the votes (16 votes) will need to be unban votes to unban zacian-crowned and zacian from trademarked.

Voting deadline: <t:1788062340:R>

If you are not on this list and should be, please DM me
does this count as 2 votes or 1 vote
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top