I vote Medium with speed around 60. Ive actually agreed with nearly everything Aldaron has said for the past 2 polls. Im really liking the the onbulky non-chlorophyll versions.
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CAP 3 CAP 3 - Part 6 (Base Stat Total)
- Thread starter Gothic Togekiss
- Start date
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Although I actually do not have much experience in ubers in any generation (I have made teams for all of them, however), I had a R/S stall team that was quite popular for a while (I fought against my own team four times on Netbattle at one point -_-), which revived old GSC tactics and combined them with R/S tactics. A running theme in the team was to completely exhaust PP utilizing Resting Raikou and Resting Dusclops, Raikou's main target being Blissey and Dusclops' being anything I can find a switch for. I can say from experience that Pressure on a bulky Pokemon can threaten a team and literally put pressure on the opponent. This is also what happens when two CMCelebi teams match up, haha.
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Correct, this is an offensive metagame whether "stall" is introduced or not. However, I can see the D/P metagame adopting a heavily stall-based metagame sooner or later. It always happens when a metagame ends (although late GSC was offensively oriented, the balance between offensive and defensive has become very defined). R/S is a perfect example, and it is sitting in a never-ending stall phase as we speak. The only OU metagame that will never adopt this is RBY, but it's pretty easy to understand why.
I do like Hyra's, but I like Aldaron's better because of his choice of speed. I do like the more "softcore" spread that Hyra presents, however.
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Correct, this is an offensive metagame whether "stall" is introduced or not. However, I can see the D/P metagame adopting a heavily stall-based metagame sooner or later. It always happens when a metagame ends (although late GSC was offensively oriented, the balance between offensive and defensive has become very defined). R/S is a perfect example, and it is sitting in a never-ending stall phase as we speak. The only OU metagame that will never adopt this is RBY, but it's pretty easy to understand why.
I do like Hyra's, but I like Aldaron's better because of his choice of speed. I do like the more "softcore" spread that Hyra presents, however.
Okay....
116/62/94/98/76/84 yields a 446 rating, or Good.
116/62/94/98/76/94 yields a 459 rating, or Very Good.
amazing what ten points of speed can do.
On to the rest of the topic:
NO EARTH POWER! - I don't think much more needs to be said on this.
No Moves Outside of STAB and Generic moves everyone gets - For balance. For the love of God, no Focus Punch/Brick Break/Focus Blast.
No Chlorophyll - Although my speed is specifically tailored for Chlorophyll, that's more so it wins than me supporting Chlorophyll as an ability. Solar Power will be more fun, or a Stall-ability if really desired.
116/62/94/98/76/84 yields a 446 rating, or Good.
116/62/94/98/76/94 yields a 459 rating, or Very Good.
amazing what ten points of speed can do.
On to the rest of the topic:
NO EARTH POWER! - I don't think much more needs to be said on this.
No Moves Outside of STAB and Generic moves everyone gets - For balance. For the love of God, no Focus Punch/Brick Break/Focus Blast.
No Chlorophyll - Although my speed is specifically tailored for Chlorophyll, that's more so it wins than me supporting Chlorophyll as an ability. Solar Power will be more fun, or a Stall-ability if really desired.
LOL, I didn't noticed until now. On the topic of ways to balance it out, I agree you on most things execpt the limited movepool, but that's a personal bias.
Edit: Let me get off my ass and do this semi-spillover thread.
GT, how long until the spreads are needed? My eyes are too bloodshot from today's computer usage to actually calculate anything out, but I can easily get it done by tomorrow afternoon/evening.
As for sleeping move, I was originally in favor of just using a crap version (grass whistle), but even that is probably too much.
I know a bulky Pressure user is interesting, but it just feels generic. Probably because so many legendaries are given the ability, even if those Pokemon who have it don't get used much. But for abilities, I think of the two both should serve different purposes. One should be for defense (Flame Body seems the most interesting, though Pressure could work too), and one for offense. The offensive one however, should be something that reinforces a theme. If Woodman is selected, Rock Head would work great, could give it a usable Physical Movepool (Flare Blitz, Wood hammer), and their huge base + the ability would allow it to be usable, despite SpAtk being higher and possibly better.
As for sleeping move, I was originally in favor of just using a crap version (grass whistle), but even that is probably too much.
I know a bulky Pressure user is interesting, but it just feels generic. Probably because so many legendaries are given the ability, even if those Pokemon who have it don't get used much. But for abilities, I think of the two both should serve different purposes. One should be for defense (Flame Body seems the most interesting, though Pressure could work too), and one for offense. The offensive one however, should be something that reinforces a theme. If Woodman is selected, Rock Head would work great, could give it a usable Physical Movepool (Flare Blitz, Wood hammer), and their huge base + the ability would allow it to be usable, despite SpAtk being higher and possibly better.
Tomorrow or the day after is fine, in fact everyone who I listed on the first page PM me your stat spreads with explanation by either today or tomorrow. I'm aware that some have already explained their stat on any of the thread but I like them to be in one place.
Potential Stall type abilities:
1.) Pressure- Don't know why I like this so much (well, I do :P), but this is my favorite so far.
2.) Battle Armor / Shell Armor- From what I can tell of what this might look like (I'm going by Elagune's awesome one), this might be appropriate. The wooden armor prevents chs?
3.) Flame Body- Seems appropriate for a primary Fire type that is bulky.
4.) Rough Skin / Aftermath- With a flame type body, I can definitely see how Pokemon hitting this might be hurt back.
5.) Magma Armor- Also seems appropriate...but I don't like it :X
6.) White Smoke- Seems appropriate.
That was my off topic listing lol. I ordered it in the order that I like them.
Anyways, I have to say I don't mind Hyra's, though the speed bit is really getting at me. Just as Lord Gloom was talking about, I am afraid that we might let this Pokemon get out of hand. Keeping it slow as hell actually allows some other options, such Tyranitar and Togekiss, to counter it much more effectively.
The thing is...if you reduce Hyra's spread by 34 in Speed (to reach 60)...you get mine haha.
I guess it comes down to a lot more speed for trivial losses in Attack, Special Attack, Defense and Special Defense, or a lot less Speed for trivial gains in all of the above.
I think the Speed gain actually is more significant than the trivial gains of the others, as Speed allows it to not invest in as much for overall defense and invest more in offense, as instead of having to survive 2 Air Slashes, for example, it only needs to survive 1.
1.) Pressure- Don't know why I like this so much (well, I do :P), but this is my favorite so far.
2.) Battle Armor / Shell Armor- From what I can tell of what this might look like (I'm going by Elagune's awesome one), this might be appropriate. The wooden armor prevents chs?
3.) Flame Body- Seems appropriate for a primary Fire type that is bulky.
4.) Rough Skin / Aftermath- With a flame type body, I can definitely see how Pokemon hitting this might be hurt back.
5.) Magma Armor- Also seems appropriate...but I don't like it :X
6.) White Smoke- Seems appropriate.
That was my off topic listing lol. I ordered it in the order that I like them.
Anyways, I have to say I don't mind Hyra's, though the speed bit is really getting at me. Just as Lord Gloom was talking about, I am afraid that we might let this Pokemon get out of hand. Keeping it slow as hell actually allows some other options, such Tyranitar and Togekiss, to counter it much more effectively.
The thing is...if you reduce Hyra's spread by 34 in Speed (to reach 60)...you get mine haha.
I guess it comes down to a lot more speed for trivial losses in Attack, Special Attack, Defense and Special Defense, or a lot less Speed for trivial gains in all of the above.
I think the Speed gain actually is more significant than the trivial gains of the others, as Speed allows it to not invest in as much for overall defense and invest more in offense, as instead of having to survive 2 Air Slashes, for example, it only needs to survive 1.
I mainly designed my spread with being able to outspeed everything with Chlorophyll, Sunny Day, and no Speed EV's in a similar fashion to Kingdra in Rain Dance. I'm probably going to leave my speed at 84 just for the people who want that, so it's an option.
I really don't like the fact that we voted this Physical, or at least that difference from Special and Physical has to be so great. I would love to dump the 10 stats from Speed into Attack, but than Attack would be greater than 70% of SAtk. I really don't want to increase any of the other stats anymore though.
I really don't like the fact that we voted this Physical, or at least that difference from Special and Physical has to be so great. I would love to dump the 10 stats from Speed into Attack, but than Attack would be greater than 70% of SAtk. I really don't want to increase any of the other stats anymore though.
Having seen the HP/Defenses differences quantified, I think my spread will end up with base stat HP being lower than defense, but the actual value defense will be higher than HP. Tackling my personal guidelines slowly so tomorrow all I have to do is calculate out optimal stats per spot.
Also, are we doing a spillover thread for 535 vs 545?
Also, are we doing a spillover thread for 535 vs 545?
Do you mean we voted this Special? And I wouldn't worry too much about our 70% lines or what; they seem quite arbitrary as it is.
I wouldn't recommend designing this at all with Chlorophyll in mind; in fact, I recommend forgetting about Chlorophyll altogether. Everyone wants something bulky on both sides, and high special attack.
The reason Kingdra isn't uber is because its bulk is questionable. With high bulk for this Pokemon and high Special Attack, we seriously have to make this is a slow Pokemon, otherwise we will have what Lord Gloom has lamented about...a broken Pokemon.
Honestly, a Pokemon with 105 Special Attack and 75 Attack is a Special Attacking Pokemon; just because 105 *.7 = 73.5, and 75 is greater than 73.5 does not mean we have suddenly made this not Special Attacking.
If you don't want to deposit the Speed into the other stats (like the bulk increasing ones), I would prefer if you "broke" the arbitrary 70% line and put it into Attack.
The rules are a work in progress, anyway.
I wouldn't recommend designing this at all with Chlorophyll in mind; in fact, I recommend forgetting about Chlorophyll altogether. Everyone wants something bulky on both sides, and high special attack.
The reason Kingdra isn't uber is because its bulk is questionable. With high bulk for this Pokemon and high Special Attack, we seriously have to make this is a slow Pokemon, otherwise we will have what Lord Gloom has lamented about...a broken Pokemon.
Honestly, a Pokemon with 105 Special Attack and 75 Attack is a Special Attacking Pokemon; just because 105 *.7 = 73.5, and 75 is greater than 73.5 does not mean we have suddenly made this not Special Attacking.
If you don't want to deposit the Speed into the other stats (like the bulk increasing ones), I would prefer if you "broke" the arbitrary 70% line and put it into Attack.
The rules are a work in progress, anyway.
It's still a point to consider that even without Chloro this thing can be a force in the sun. Solar Power would fit perfectly and gives a pretty sizable power boost, and there's always Leaf Guard (the sun counterpart to hydration) too.
I'm still trying to tune my spread some more, but I'll probably post it with a brief explanation soon.
I'm still trying to tune my spread some more, but I'll probably post it with a brief explanation soon.
I had a post complimenting Karrot, but Fire Fox erased it.
Anyways, I think I've finalized my spread:
116 HP - 1 more Point than Aldaron, mainly to leave Entei alone.
62 Atk - 12 point less than Aldaron, this won't be used, yadayada.
104 Def - 2 more points than Aldaron! It's just where I felt like dropping the extra ten from Speed
98 SAtk - 8 less than Aldaron, but that's minute.
81 SDef - 2 less than Aldaron, where I decided to drop the extra 5 points to get to 545 (this will be the first stat to get reduced, then Defense).
84 Speed - Slower than Heracross w/o Chlorophyll, able to outspeed Adamant ScarfCross with Chlorophyll! (Also known as 34 points more than Aldaron)
yeah... biggest difference between his and mine is Speed, which is arguably one of the biggest factors in determining usage.
Anyways, I think I've finalized my spread:
116 HP - 1 more Point than Aldaron, mainly to leave Entei alone.
62 Atk - 12 point less than Aldaron, this won't be used, yadayada.
104 Def - 2 more points than Aldaron! It's just where I felt like dropping the extra ten from Speed
98 SAtk - 8 less than Aldaron, but that's minute.
81 SDef - 2 less than Aldaron, where I decided to drop the extra 5 points to get to 545 (this will be the first stat to get reduced, then Defense).
84 Speed - Slower than Heracross w/o Chlorophyll, able to outspeed Adamant ScarfCross with Chlorophyll! (Also known as 34 points more than Aldaron)
yeah... biggest difference between his and mine is Speed, which is arguably one of the biggest factors in determining usage.
I is a making it right now D: and yes, the messed up grammar is on purpose.
Not just determining usage, but power status as well.
Yours is essentially as bulky as mine, a teenie less effective specially but it still reaches 324, which is larger than Kingdra can say, and with 84 Speed it basically has the same speed as Kingdra.
I dunno, I'm just afraid that high speed on this thing will make it broken. That might just be me though.
Yours is essentially as bulky as mine, a teenie less effective specially but it still reaches 324, which is larger than Kingdra can say, and with 84 Speed it basically has the same speed as Kingdra.
I dunno, I'm just afraid that high speed on this thing will make it broken. That might just be me though.
Instead of giving this Chlorophyll, would it be terribly broken if it got Drought instead? That would increase the OU 'Weather' abilities to 4 (Sand Stream, Snow Warning, Drought, Air Lock). I truly think that having every Weather achievable permanently is a key to balancing the metagame, since it would allow more types of quirky Pokemon (Walrein, Cradily, Eggy, Kingdra) to become very useable. Air Lock will help prevent it from becoming too weather-oriented.
Just food for thought.
Just food for thought.
Air Lock isn't a weather ability, cause it doesn't get rid of weather, just nullifies the effects. As soon as it switches out the weather effects start right up again. This has been discussed many many times before, and I think the brokenness of OU Drought and Drizzle has been established.
if clorophyl isnt going to be the ability, we ever can give it a special version of dragon dance, i would love that this become an special gyara...
We are trying to broaden the metagame, and I don't think Drought or Drizzle would be nearly as powerful as Sand Stream or Snow Warning.
Uhh, Drought and Drizzle are both much more powerful than Sand Stream or Snow Warning.
Snow Warning hits non-Ice's for 6.25% each turn and makes Blizzard have 100% accuracy.
Sandstream hits non Ground, Steel, and Rock Pokemon for 6.25% each turn, gives Rock Pokemon a Special Defense boost and craps on Solarbeam, lol.
Drought makes all Fire, Ground and Rock Pokemon lose a weakness; it powers up an entire type offensively by 1.5*; it gives a bunch of Pokemon double the Speed, and the majority of those happen to get STAB on a certain 100% accurate now 1-turn 120 BP Solarbeam.
Drizzle makes all Grass, Steel, Bug and Ice Pokemon lose a weakness; it powers up an entire type offensively by 1.5*; and it gives a bunch of Pokemon double the Speed, who all happen to get STAB on the type already incrased by 1.5* in power.
I don't think Hail or Sand's 6.25% residual damage can even compare to what Drought and Drizzle do. The real gamebreakers are the double Speed and increasing of Fire / Water by 1.5*.
That is really a lot.
Snow Warning hits non-Ice's for 6.25% each turn and makes Blizzard have 100% accuracy.
Sandstream hits non Ground, Steel, and Rock Pokemon for 6.25% each turn, gives Rock Pokemon a Special Defense boost and craps on Solarbeam, lol.
Drought makes all Fire, Ground and Rock Pokemon lose a weakness; it powers up an entire type offensively by 1.5*; it gives a bunch of Pokemon double the Speed, and the majority of those happen to get STAB on a certain 100% accurate now 1-turn 120 BP Solarbeam.
Drizzle makes all Grass, Steel, Bug and Ice Pokemon lose a weakness; it powers up an entire type offensively by 1.5*; and it gives a bunch of Pokemon double the Speed, who all happen to get STAB on the type already incrased by 1.5* in power.
I don't think Hail or Sand's 6.25% residual damage can even compare to what Drought and Drizzle do. The real gamebreakers are the double Speed and increasing of Fire / Water by 1.5*.
That is really a lot.
I vote Fast. For reasons stated previously. With or without Chlorophyll I want this work without sun. I hope there are a few spread submissions that aren't pure bulk, but rather have a nice balance of defenses and speed.
Uhh, btw Hyra, for your 94 Spread, I am getting 559, not 459.
559 is significantly more powerful than 459, lol.
My spread was getting 528, which makes sense because it had small, trivial gains in 4 stats in place of the large gain you had in Speed.
559 is right around Syclant, and this time we have a much better STAB :X
559 is significantly more powerful than 459, lol.
My spread was getting 528, which makes sense because it had small, trivial gains in 4 stats in place of the large gain you had in Speed.
559 is right around Syclant, and this time we have a much better STAB :X
I was lazy the second time around and might have made a few mistakes. But does 10 speed really add over 100 points to this thing?
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