CAP 3 CAP 3 - Part 9 (Main Ability Discussion)

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True, but it's still only one side of the defense spectrum. If it were both, it'd be comparable.

jagged_angel said:
Someone needs to do the damage calculations of a Solar Powered, Sunny Day 252SpA Fire Blast to a Blissey. I bet it would be a preeetty big chunk.
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252SpAtk, Neutral Nature, No weather Fire Blast against Standard Blissey: 18.02% - 21.22%
252SpAtk, Neutral Nature, Sunny Day Fire Blast against Standard Blissey: 27.03% - 31.83%
252SpAtk, Positive Nature, Sunny Day Fire Blast against Standard Blissey: 29.65% - 34.74%
252SpAtk, Positive Nature, Sunny Day, Solar Powered Fire Blast against Standard Blissey: 44.33% - 52.18%

Not even a 2HKO.
 
Lil Ant said:
A bulky Pokemon like this with SolarPolor is broken. Also your ability Bask is the same as Chlorophyll, just has a different name = /
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Lil Ant - Eric KNOWS Bask is the same as Chlorophyll, anyone can see that. He's suggested Bask because some people are going off Chlorophyll because the artwork doesn't seem to fit the ability. Calling it Bask instead fits with the Lizard-like artwork but keeps the same effect as Chlorophyll. Jeez.
 
Right I will explain how having Bask and/or Solar Power would affect this Pokemon:

Solar power would give it 476 Sp. attack (252+nature) after one turn of set up, that may not sound like much compared to many other sweepers but it can boost it with Life Orb to a decent 618 once sunny day is active.
Now i know what you are thinking BROKEN on something as bulky as this but if you consider it will lose 22.25% every turn, take 25% from SR and probably have no recovery move outside rest (rest+sunny day is a bad idea) it will not last that long.

With Bask (Bask has the same affect as chlorophyll but the name fits much better), max speed without a nature boost it reaches 438 speed enough to beat most of the slower scarfers but not the faster ones, and pretty much all non boosted opponents, Jolly Scarf Cross still beats it as does any neutral natured 252 with base 97 or more, it would allow it to have a try at beating those who would normally outspeed survive one hit and 2KO.

Ether of these ability's would give this Pokemon a chance at sweeping (after all we voted balanced) look at its stats they have a similar defensive/offensive rating as Skarmory, Mantine, Deoxys-D, Hippowdon, Bronzong, Magcargo, Giratina, Lugia, Tangrowth among others. Can you really call any of them balanced Pokemon?

After a Solar Power or Bask boost it STILL has Slight bias to defense according to X-Acts rating, remember it can only have one at a time.

LA said:
A bulky Pokemon like this with Solar Power is broken.
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I disagree it loses too much HP to remain bulky.

LA said:
Also your ability Bask is the same as Chlorophyll, just has a different name = /
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Many Pokemon have ability's that are the same with different names look at Vital Spirit and Insomnia, Cloud Nine and Air Lock. Its not a problem.
 
The point i was trying to make is, Chlorophyll being chosen for an ability wasn't just for appearance. Facing a fast, bulky Pokemon, with 1 STAB move boosted by 1.5 is just too much shit to handle man. You guys are giving this thing to much to work with. I understand you guys aren't trying to limit it, but don't go overboard. Hell we went overboard with Syclant, look at the complaints we have got. It has still yet to be fixed, and it still considered to be broken till this day.

Slow your roll is all i'm trying to say

Rock Head and Battle Armor seems like a perfect fit to me.
 
Bask's name and effect contradict itself.

To bask in something, you need to lay out in it and remain dormant. Reptiles need to bask in sun for an extended amount of time to set their body temperature.

So how would laying around in the sun double your speed if you lie about dormant? If anything, Bask as an ability name relates itself more to the effect of Truant.

That's all I had to say.
 
I'm still advocating that Rock Head and Battle Armour should be its two abilities. First of all Battle Armour is just too perfect for this guy's appearance. It also blocks crits, and frankly I'm getting sick and tired of them deciding matches for me. Secondly, how can anyone here say that Rock Head doesn't fit. Let's review the Pokemon that get Rock Head shall we?

Geodude/Graveler/Golem- has a head made of rock
Onix/Steelix- Onix I can see, but Steelix clearly has a head of steel
Cubone/Marowak- Heads are skull, not rock. Even if making the arguement that they are fossilized skull, that's still not technically rock.
Rhyhorn/Rhydon- head of rock
Aerodactyl- same
Bonsly/Sudowoodo- Obviously, it is a rock type, but it is wood
Aron/Lairon/Aggron- Heads are definately steel
Relicanth- head of rock
Bagon/Shellgon- They have a hard head

I think the term Rock Head more lterally means having a hard head than a head actually made of rock. Granted, wood is not the strongest material out there, but in my opinion it still makes Rock Head perfectly viable. Regarding the competitive standpoint, it allows for a physical set using recoil type moves (Flare Blitz and Woodhammer). This is running off of a base 70 Base Attack while on the special side, we have Fire Blast (accuracy issues) and Solarbeam (without sun, needs charging)which gives it two 120 BP moves running off of a 95 Base Special Attack. In the end, I think that the Special set will be the better one, but it gives us a viable physical or even mixed set. (See Tyranitar) To sum up, Rock Head and Battle Armour both fit perfectly and I think that they both deserve mention, and if not, be the favorites to win.
 
Tsukikage said:
I'm still advocating that Rock Head and Battle Armour should be its two abilities. First of all Battle Armour is just too perfect for this guy's appearance. It also blocks crits, and frankly I'm getting sick and tired of them deciding matches for me. Secondly, how can anyone here say that Rock Head doesn't fit. Let's review the Pokemon that get Rock Head shall we?

Geodude/Graveler/Golem- has a head made of rock
Onix/Steelix- Onix I can see, but Steelix clearly has a head of steel
Cubone/Marowak- Heads are skull, not rock. Even if making the arguement that they are fossilized skull, that's still not technically rock.
Rhyhorn/Rhydon- head of rock
Aerodactyl- same
Bonsly/Sudowoodo- Obviously, it is a rock type, but it is wood
Aron/Lairon/Aggron- Heads are definately steel
Relicanth- head of rock
Bagon/Shellgon- They have a hard head

I think the term Rock Head more lterally means having a hard head than a head actually made of rock. Granted, wood is not the strongest material out there, but in my opinion it still makes Rock Head perfectly viable. Regarding the competitive standpoint, it allows for a physical set using recoil type moves (Flare Blitz and Woodhammer). This is running off of a base 70 Base Attack while on the special side, we have Fire Blast (accuracy issues) and Solarbeam (without sun, needs charging)which gives it two 120 BP moves running off of a 95 Base Special Attack. In the end, I think that the Special set will be the better one, but it gives us a viable physical or even mixed set. (See Tyranitar) To sum up, Rock Head and Battle Armour both fit perfectly and I think that they both deserve mention, and if not, be the favorites to win.
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WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!
 
Bask's name and effect contradict itself.

To bask in something, you need to lay out in it and remain dormant. Reptiles need to bask in sun for an extended amount of time to set their body temperature.

So how would laying around in the sun double your speed if you lie about dormant? If anything, Bask as an ability name relates itself more to the effect of Truant.

That's all I had to say.
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mmm... but basking does increase a reptiles speed does it not? Does plants Clorphyll realy make them fast I think not, but anyway you could argue it ether way I suppose.

The point i was trying to make is, Chlorophyll being chosen for an ability wasn't just for appearance. Facing a fast, bulky Pokemon, with 1 STAB move boosted by 1.5 is just too much shit to handle man. You guys are giving this thing to much to work with. I understand you guys aren't trying to limit it, but don't go overboard. Hell we went overboard with Syclant, look at the complaints we have got. It has still yet to be fixed, and it still considered to be broken till this day.
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I say give Bask a chance and if it turns out to be broken (I don't think it will) we can revise it.
We should fix Syclant ASAP and get the process of revising tested.
 
And for those that say, with Rock Head, Physical would surpass special: not really. It might have better accuracy, but special would have more power. For one thing, special would be uncrittable, assuming Battle Armor were the other ability. Then, it would have access to Overheat and Leaf Storm, as well as Hidden Power.
 
If people like the effect of Rock Head, but have problems with the name matching the type -- we can just create an ability with the exact same effect as Rock Head with a different name. We can call it Wooden or Hardened... whatever really. Eric mentioned it earlier -- there are lots of identical abilities with different names. We can do the same here, if we think the ability fits with the pokemon and the concept.

Based on the art, I can easily see it not taking damage from recoil. If we think people will get hung up on the name, then make a name that fits. It's incredibly easy to code this sort of thing into Shoddy, since it is identical to something else.
 
what the flying fuck happened to all the Battle Armour love?

if we're relying on a critical hit to counter this thing, then it's not really a counter now, is it? It's all good if drapion can switch into this thing and OHKO it with a crit, but without a crit it's not doing jack and will get OHKO'd by a STAB Sun Fire blast.

Re-iterating the viability of SUPER LUCK. we could make this a make it or break it hax thingy. Not as broken as Sniper + Wide lens IMO and it lets it do it's job to perfection, Killing Bulky Grounds/Waters/Steels.

in regards to new ability names, it doesn't really need to make sense. Let's just make white smoke all over again and give people another useless ability name to remember and clog up their brains. Especially with this, chlorophyll still seems reasonable to an extent.

In regards to Rock Head, Adamant 252 CB Woodman hits 394 attack. If ScarfChomp is a totally viable threat, then this thing goes into overdrive FSU mode with Innate bulkiness and chockablock fulla 120 BP moves. It is totally viable in that regard, but you've gotta sacrifice your tanking ability.
 
Aki said:
In regards to Rock Head, Adamant 252 CB Woodman hits 394 attack. If ScarfChomp is a totally viable threat, then this thing goes into overdrive FSU mode with Innate bulkiness and chockablock fulla 120 BP moves. It is totally viable in that regard, but you've gotta sacrifice your tanking ability.
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But of course Scarfchomp has 448 speed, while this thing has like 223 maxed out. Besides, Scarfcchomp is a revenge killer with it's Outrage, while this thing can't revenge kill anything with 223 speed.

Rock head really would be a waste of an ability on this pokemon, since it is not physical and special moves have no recoil.

I support any ability that would enable it to boost its speed, since that's the only thing keeping it from being a good powerful sweeper.
 
This sucks, the only other person supporting Pressure has dropped the idea!

I cannot even begin to explain the underlying potential of Pressure. Not many people (if any) in this topic have had the time for extensive experimentation with "stallplay," but I know from experience that its advantage dramatically increases the longer and profound a Pokemon battle becomes. The power of Pressure is finally recognized when your opponent has to put thought into what moves they choose when PP is running low - something uncommon in fast-paced games - and that is how Pressure gets its name. With the correct skills and team you can turn an utter stall match into a 100% victory. (Although I doubt anyone has ever tried to remove an opponent's Rapid Spin PP so you could Spike their team into oblivion. ;p)

Even in an offensive game with fast-paced battling, the effectiveness of Pressure can be seen. For example, removing the Gyro Ball PP from a single-attack Bronzong means that it will have a hard time stopping your Substitute Swords Dance Garchomp!

If a capable "stall" ability is what you want, then I advise you to put your support into Pressure: an ability that is neither potent nor weak but can turn a game around from even the darkest corner.
 
You're missing the innate bulkiness thing.

Woodman@CB
252/252 HP/Attack
Adamant
Rock Head
-Wood Hammer
-Flare Blitz
-Double Edge
-(Rock Head?)

394 attack (!), 444 hp (!!) 246 Defence and 216 special Defence. And in regards to a speed boosting ability, all i have to say is "lol lets sweep with 95 special attack and waste those defences and great support movepool and STILL be outclassed by heatran"
 
just pointing out...sudowoodo IS made of rock, not wood. it's a play on "pseudo". it's a rock creature that masquerades as wood to protect itself from water attacks. check out the pokedexes...


but i wouldn't horribly mind rock head anyway. it just seems to make sense.
 
Aldaron said:
Aki, 394 Atk with Choice Band is hardly threatening, lol.
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Well, it's not. But it does have the same Attack and move BP as ScarfChomp. Although ScarfChomp is pretty much gone now.

Anyways, I think Chlorophyll/Bask aren't broken with this spread. First, it takes an incredibly amount of EV investment to get to the required speeds. Secondly, 95 attack is very underpowered for sweeping. Fire does get the 1.5x boost, but that's the same as adding Specs (do not say you will do Specs + Sunny Day, that's asking to get raped by Heatran).

The EV's this will use with Chlorophyll pretty much kill its tankiness.
252 SAtk / 188 Spe / 68 HP
This gives you 317 SAtk, 203 Speed, and some HP I don't feel like figuring out. How often do you see Electivire sweep with its equivalent stats (317 max SAtk, 405 Speed after Motor Drive). Motor Drive is equivalent to setting up Sunny Day, except Sunny Day ends. This guy will have higher BP moves, but less coverage.
 
I think that if there must be an ability to help it in the physical area, it should be Hustle. It's still plausible and it would make those CB attacks hurt a lot more. But I still like the idea of a Rough Skin clone.
 
DougJustDoug said:
If people like the effect of Rock Head, but have problems with the name matching the type -- we can just create an ability with the exact same effect as Rock Head with a different name. We can call it Wooden or Hardened... whatever really. Eric mentioned it earlier -- there are lots of identical abilities with different names. We can do the same here, if we think the ability fits with the pokemon and the concept.

Based on the art, I can easily see it not taking damage from recoil. If we think people will get hung up on the name, then make a name that fits. It's incredibly easy to code this sort of thing into Shoddy, since it is identical to something else.
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I agree with this i have no problem with effects of Rock head ,It just a pokemon in a wood mask does not scream Rock head to me.You call it wood armor,Wood shield,Tree of Fortitude or something else i have no gripes with it .Just change the name, keep the no recoil we should have a beautiful compromise.
 
_Sparkball606_ said:
Acceleration: Increases speed by 1 stage.(Not per turn,just increase it by 1 stage. Like a choice scarf or something)

Wait,does choice scarf increase by 1 stage or 2? If it's 1,then this would be broken. If 2,then I guess it's fine?
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How is going up 1 stage broken, but going up by 2 stage isn't? An one stage boost in speed is about the as a Choice Scarf boost.

Justification wise, I'm can somewhat follow being it can use it's backburners as boosters.
 
I think he means if Choice Scarf is 2 stages, then an ability that goes up 1 isn't (in relation to being an ability version of CS). However, since CS is 1, then having an ability that doubles it's effect would be broken. Basically, he wanted half the power of CScarf.
 
I just wanted to mention Marvel Scale since lots of people like Leaf Guard and Vital Spirit. It's not a fish, but it is a reptile.

I particularly like Rock Head since it gives this pokemon the opportunity to be a physical attacker. I have to say, though, that it shouldn't get any strong ice, rock, or ground attacks on either spectrum.

I would limit it to Rock Throw and Rock Tomb (maybe Rock Blast or Rock Slide); Dig, Mud Bomb, Mud Shot, and Mud Slap; Icicle Spear (and maybe Aurora Beam).

As far as I can tell, there are only 5 recoil attacks in the entire game: Flare Blitz, Wood Hammer, Head Smash, Take Down, and Double-Edge. Does anyone know of others?
 
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