Other Weather Effects(The First true test of the Cap project)

[Grawl]

I fully support the idea of making the next CAP weather based and Red vs Blue sounds like fun. I don't think there will be any real problems as long as it's not turned in a competition too much.

I do want to point out, that it might be a little difficult for people to join later in the proces. They can probably easily be added in a team, but it does need some attention.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

OK, I'm going to create a poll with the options I mentioned above. Should I close the ability poll while we vote on this? The ability poll may be very different if the Weather Project is "approved". I think we should shut it down pending the results of the weather project poll. GT, what do you think?

I say you have my approval, which is ironically since you're the only one between us that can lock a thread. I can't really stop you if you do that now.

 

[Sunday]

Just wanting to point out if they are a duo then one of the most prominent aspects of a duo that hasn't yet been mentioned is learning shared level up moves at the same time and learning 'equivilant' level up moves at the same level.

 

[Hyra]

OK, I'm going to create a poll with the options I mentioned above. Should I close the ability poll while we vote on this? The ability poll may be very different if the Weather Project is "approved". I think we should shut it down pending the results of the weather project poll. GT, what do you think?

I think someone said Greenhouse was in third anyways? I would just put a warning up that Greenhouse might be removed and that those who vote for Greenhouse might have to change their votes....

On second thought, closing the current poll and just opening a brand new one if we decide to do the weather duo sounds better. If we decide not to, we can just reopen the current one.

Just wanting to point out if they are a duo then one of the most prominent aspects of a duo that hasn't yet been mentioned is learning shared level up moves at the same time and learning 'equivilant' level up moves at the same level.

This is one of the main reasons for me thinking that Gamefreak makes all duo Pokemon with a team assigned to the duo. There's also the fact that the stats often have equivalent values, just arranged in different orders. I think the duo polls should be done concurrently in one thread; but, for example, you would have to submit two mirrored Base Stats in that thread. Style/Build would be trickier, since we want them to be different and similar at the same time.

I definitely think that movepool + Base Stats should be joint processes where a change on one Pokemon affects the other.

 

[Dane]

OK, I'm going to create a poll with the options I mentioned above. Should I close the ability poll while we vote on this? The ability poll may be very different if the Weather Project is "approved". I think we should shut it down pending the results of the weather project poll. GT, what do you think?

I'd say keep the ability thread open, but still start the other thread. If someone votes now, they have the option of editing their vote afterwards if need be. If they can't edit later due to time restraints, then they wouldn't be able to vote due to it being closed anyway.

Just wanting to point out if they are a duo then one of the most prominent aspects of a duo that hasn't yet been mentioned is learning shared level up moves at the same time and learning 'equivilant' level up moves at the same level.

Do we actually assign a level to the "level up" moves though? If nothing else though, just make sure they have the same number of moves.

OH this brings up another question. If it's a duo... will they be "legendaries", or will they be a breedable duo (think Arcanine/Rapidash here I suppose)?

 

[Sunday]

I would lean towards one in one game-other in other game kind of duo over legendaries here. Ludicolo and Nuzleaf style.

EDIT: Not the best example.

 

[Aki]

YOu totally mean Shiftry and Ludicolo -_-

And yes, i'd like to see a full blown 3 evolution chain. I'd also like the pre-evo's to be implimented for random.

 

[Dane]

Yeah, that's how I was leaning with Arcanine/Rapidash. Arcanine was Red, and Rapidash was blue, right? I can never remember, only Fire I used was Charizard >_>

 

[Hyra]

Yeah, that's how I was leaning with Arcanine/Rapidash. Arcanine was Red, and Rapidash was blue, right? I can never remember, only Fire I used was Charizard >_>

No... Growlithe and Vulpix. Other mentions are Sandshrew and Ekans, Mankey and Meowth? .... It's been a while since I actually bothered about in game exclusives.

Saying I would like a Shiftry/Ludicolo style duo. Vulpix/Growlithe are too similar for my tastes and making legendaries requires at least 580 BST, which is hard to get a low rating with.

 

[Dane]

No... Growlithe and Vulpix.

Argh! Almost had it.

Saying I would like a Shiftry/Ludicolo style duo. Vulpix/Growlithe are too similar for my tastes and making legendaries requires at least 580 BST, which is hard to get a low rating with.

Was more of an example of "version exclusive non-legendary" kind of thing.

 

[Grawl]

Would the two having the same pre-evo be an idea? Kinda like Hitmonlee/Hitmonchan and Tyrogue. That would make giving them the same moves till a certain level easy.

 

[Dane]

Would the two having the same pre-evo be an idea? Kinda like Hitmonlee/Hitmonchan and Tyrogue. That would make giving them the same moves till a certain level easy.

But also makes it incredibly hard to give them specific egg moves. Also doesn't work if they end up mono-typed, though I'm not expecting that.

 

[Hyra]

hm...

Water only needs Fire or Ghost to have comboed with all 17 types. Ghost split evo? Not very likely.

 

[Dane]

I would actually prefer these Pokemon to either be typed so as they're x4 weak to something (...not Rock), or not be weak/resistant to either Fire/Water.

So basically I want:
Sun -

Fire/Electric
Fire/Poison
Fire/Rock
Fire/Steel
Fire/Ground

Rain -

Water/Rock

or

Sun - Any typing combination that isn't weak to Fire or Water, nor is it resistant to Fire or Water.

Rain - Any typing combination that isn't weak to Fire or Water, nor is it resistant to Fire or Water.

 

[Hyra]

Rain - Water/Ground Water/Rock Water/Flying... why is Water such a good defensive type?

Hm... for the second one.

Fire/Grass (shush) is the only one for Fire. And no one type is weak to both Fire and Water and Water resists both. Sorry Dane.

 

[Dane]

I left Water/Flying out because... well it's been used multiple times, and well. Same for Water/Ground. That pretty much just left Water/Rock, which I think only Corsola (lolz) has.

I'm going to go look at a type chart and get back to this for my second part. Hear that Hyra? You're forcing me to look at a type chart. I hope you're happy.

*See below*

 

[Grawl]

Omastar and Kabutobs cry on the inside

 

[Hyra]

I left Water/Flying out because... well it's been used multiple times, and well. Same for Water/Ground. That pretty much just left Water/Rock, which I think only Corsola (lolz) has.

I'm going to go look at a type chart and get back to this for my second part. Hear that Hyra? You're forcing me to look at a type chart. I hope you're happy.

Already used Serebii for that. Only Rock/Grass and Grass/Fire have a resist to both that is canceled by a weak to both. And Water resists both, meaning you can't make it neutral to both Fire + Water at once.

By the way, you forgot at least Kabutops and Omastar. They are Rock/Water, which is Water/Rock.

Edit: beat by Grawl, my post had more info though.

 

[Grawl]

I actually like the idea of making them Normal. That way, they would benefit less from their ability, which seems good with such strong abilities. It would also make it easier to add a weather-remover pokemon and give some diversity to weather based teams.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Why do the weather Pokemon have to be explicitly Water and Fire-typed? It makes the most sense, but we still have fallback types of Electric and Grass (for the moves enhanced by the respective weathers -- Thunder and Solarbeam). But yeah...Water and Fire make leagues more sense.

What if we just made them neutral to each other? Then we could have Fire/<Grass/Water/Dragon> and Water/<Grass/Ice/Bug/Steel>. I think I left out a couple of types, there...

For some reason I'm liking the idea of Fire/Rock and Water/Rock and linking them to evolutions of Lunatone and Solrock. But a) that doesn't make much sense in Lunatone's case and b) evolving them will probably make them OU without abilities, which I don't think is what we want.

*inserts $0.02...if I do this two more times today you'll have a dime*

 

[chronostrike]

What about a Castform split evo? Granted the egg move list is very limited, but we could do like Eevee and give it a very rich move list after evolving outside of Castform's list (all the eeveons get Last Resort by level-up like Eevee, but none of them learn Trump Card by level-up like Eevee). As an added bonus, Castform has 70 in every stat (BST 420) for plenty of room to maneuver.

If we keep the BST low enough (so as not to overthrow abomasnow), we could even add a third evo for hail if we wanted.

 

[Deck Knight]

great idea until it gets to comepetitive and then people try to outdo each other with two broken monsters.

Hey Blue team just added 5 special points to their creation lets add 10 back and forth. Then there the very realistic chance of all the theorymon going to shit and all of sudden the pokemon are not as balanced to each other as we thought, then only one is really used.

Auto fire is basically already starting at a disadvantage solely based on waters being able to hit it super effective, being generally a better type and having a wider range and better pokemon.

Two projects at the same time but all done by the same people working together.

Its more then just voting on any old extra type that the community think's is cool there needs to be a huge topic before this starts about how you make it as balanced as possible, how you can put fire on par with water, etc.

If we did Fire/Dragon and Water/Dragon types the two would be on essentially equal footing, since Dragon resists both fire and water but is weak to itself. This would give the Water/Dragon essentially a free switchin on a fire move(bar WoW), but if Fire/Dragon comes in on a water move it has psuedo-resistance.

Since we'll already have concept down, I think all we have to agree to is BST. Then if the Auto-Sun people want a fast physical Fire pokemon with strong Dragon backups and the Auto-Rain people want a slow tankish pokemon, that's their business. The only thing speed would affect is which one's weather prevails if they switch in at the same time (the slower one)

We should use Shiftry/Ludicolo. They are literally the living embodiment of what we want.

@eric:

Actually I think a team project gets more people involved. Instead of the same 12 people submitting stat spreads for one pokemon, you (theoretically) get 6 regulars posting spreads for one and 6 for the other, and maybe 3 or 4 other entries.

There's also nothing specifically stopping us from creating a third "Silver team" (or maybe "Yellow Team" lol) to create a third pokemon. This pokemon could just be Pure Dragon, and it would thus have no real advantage or disadvantage over the other two weather Dragons.

And before you go "Draco Meteor blagh" I'd want to set the BST options for this between 460 and 480, so that while you could have a super-powerful Draco Meteor and Hydro Pump/Fire Blast, you couldn't exploit Dragon Claw or Flare Blitz/Aqua Tail, nor would you have mondo defenses.

 

[Dane]

Dark
Electric
Fighting
Flying
Ghost
Normal
Poison
Psychic

These are all mono types that work, and any combination of these amongst themselves are also applicable. The following are types that would normally not work by themselves, but after combining works:

Grass/Rock

That's a lot of type combinations.

Also, bah to Omastar and Kabutops.


@Deck Knight: I don't really like the idea of secondary dragon typing, to be honest. The Water version could still hit the Fire version neutrally, but the Fire version would be x4 resisted. This meaning their main typing of course, not their dragon typing.

Granted it's totally possible since they have the dragon typing, but I'd like to make them not weak to the opponent's theme. The enemy water Pokemon could neutral the Fire/Dragon, but the enemy fire Pokemon would be x4 resisted by the Water/Dragon.

 

[Hyra]

I actually like the idea of making them Normal. That way, they would benefit less from their ability, which seems good with such strong abilities. It would also make it easier to add a weather-remover pokemon and give some diversity to weather based teams.

Normal or Dragon sounds like the best option for the secondary type. Fire and Water are obviously the main types, anything else would be weird like Groudon.

@ Dane:

I beat you to the dual types, and the plain types don't make sense outside of Normal, Flying, and Psychic. Maybe mono-Flying for all three?

 

[Dane]

Normal or Dragon sounds like the best option for the secondary type. Fire and Water are obviously the main types, anything else would be weird like Groudon.

But then Water has a distinct advantage, which I'd like to avoid. Groudon is just weird because it's an odd type, yet still weak to water.

Water already has infinite Pokemon to choose from, and natural type advantage. We can overcome this!