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Other Weather Effects(The First true test of the Cap project)
- Thread starter Luck
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You forget that Sun removes the weakness to Water. And Fire/Electric would be able to hurt the Water-type in the rain. Finding a fitting secondary typing for Water is harder, since the parallel of Grass removes the Electric weak.
Edit:
If we do Water/Dragon, how will it not be Kingdra but better in everyway?
How about Water/Grass and Fire/Electric. This way both would benefit from eachother's weather as well as their own. This would also give Fire another new type combo and the only other Water/Grass is Ludicolo. Both would have to get Solarbeam and Thunder I would think because Fire/Electric would need to get both, so the other would too.
EDIT: missed Hyra's post as I was typing this. Ironic how it's right above mine though, huh?
EDIT: missed Hyra's post as I was typing this. Ironic how it's right above mine though, huh?
1. Normal doesn't make it any better. Auto-Sun would get more stoned by auto-Rain then. Since Water would always hit SE whereas Fire would always be resisted. In the instance of Dragon, both can pulverize each other with Dragon attacks but either can switch into the other because they weaken the secondary STAB.
2. Something like Grass/Dragon for Auto-Sun is nothing but fodder for Ice Beam.
3.Even if you want Grass/Normal and Electric/Normal, Grass would still resist both water and electric attacks and still be weak to Ice Beam.
4. If you also wanted a third pokemon, a third Dragon would resist both Sun AND Rain STABs, but still be weak to Dragon STABs. In other words, each weather pokemon is a check on each of the other weather pokemon.
You forget that Sun removes the weakness to Water. And Fire/Electric would be able to hurt the Water-type in the rain. Finding a fitting secondary typing for Water is harder, since the parallel of Grass removes the Electric weak.
Hyra said:
One, Kingdra will have Double speed in Rain and this won't, and second, Kingdra will have better BST than this (Kingdra has 540. This will have 480, tops, if I get my way). Third, using this with Kingdra compounds your Dragon weakness and doubles-up on attacking types. In other words, this will be a slower, weaker Kingdra aided by Auto-Rain. Even if you specialized it in physical, it would be a physical variant of Kingrda that still probably had subpar defenses or speed.
I don't like dragon or ghost. These pokemon are designed to counter each other, so obviously we want to switch them in on each other. We can't really do that if they all get STAB on the best type to kill each other. If I know my opponent wants to change the weather, then I will use my STAB dragon/ghost attack to catch him for super effective damage on the switch.
I think it would be best to give neither of them the type matching their weather move.
EDIT: I may have to take that back. What about Fire/Dragon and Water/Steel? Both have resistance to one of the other's STAB and neutral to the other.
I think it would be best to give neither of them the type matching their weather move.
EDIT: I may have to take that back. What about Fire/Dragon and Water/Steel? Both have resistance to one of the other's STAB and neutral to the other.
Picking up off the trio where each member keeps others in check, how about something where we have our weather users, primary type Fire and Water, respectively. As it is, Water SE's Fire, Fire is NVE to Water. So they get secondary types that share a reverse relationship: Water's secondary type is weak to Fire's secondary type and strikes back NVE. First example that comes to mind is Fire/Psychic and Water/Fighting, but you get the idea. Then the third member (the one with the "kill all weather" ability) would share an equal relationship with both weather users, whether it resists or hits both SE, or something similar to the pair: One type hits one SE, the other NVE: switch for the other member. Psychic/Dark?
*inserts $0.02...that's $0.08 so far today*
*inserts $0.02...that's $0.08 so far today*
That's crazy...
I love it. >)
I love it. >)
Except the Water type will take nuetral damage from fire and resist water 4x while the Fire type gets utterly slaughtered by water attacks. Moreover, the Water type will have less to fear with Thunder at the expense of Solarbeam, where the fire type never feared Solarbeam and now has to worry about Thunder. The Drought pokemon always wins because the Drizzle pokemon cannot switch in. It is also insanely counterintuitive and self-defeating. It's like creating a pair of Regigi in that you've halfed your offensive stats, at least when using a STAB move, the move that is supposed to be your power move.
The point is, Water resists Fire and Fire is weak to Water. Only a Dragon, Grass, or Water secondary on the fire type a chance to balance them. We just made a Fire/Grass Pokemon, and its not really Groudon vs. Kyogre-ey if only one has a secondary type.
I actually thought about that too. Fire would cause a temperature/pressure change, thus bring rain clouds. Water would absorb all the water, thus causing a drought. However, typing-wise Fire still gets shafted.
It's not like it's unheard of either.
Flareon, Entei, and Moltres are fire types that can Rain Dance.
Ludicolo, Octillery, Slowbro, Slowking, Suicune, and Vaporeon are water types that can Sunny Day.
Granted Ludicolo might not count due to it's grass typing, I left it in since his abilities aren't positively affected by sun.
Yeah, after typing out the reverse idea, I realized that switching the Fire Drizzler into the Water Droughter would get the Fire one killed.
I still think a Fire/Water with an option for both seems to be the most Balanced way to go about it, except for the fact that Fire/Water 4x resists Fire...
I still think a Fire/Water with an option for both seems to be the most Balanced way to go about it, except for the fact that Fire/Water 4x resists Fire...
All Legends get all weather moves (Suicune, Entei, Moltres). Rain Dance Flareon and Sunny Day Vaporeon are holdovers from Eevee.
Octy, Slowbro, and Slowking can all Flamethrower and Fire Blast for some reason (Go OCTY!). I think I had a "Tikibro" set back in GSC with Sunny Day/Earthquake/Fire Blast/Thunder Wave.
What about making a Fire/Water with Drought and a Water/Fire with Drizzle?
It seems only semantically different, I know, but this way, it will always be the one that switches in who will have the advantage, right?
And we could vary them by the strength of the attacks they get in their movepool. Like the best Water move the Fire/Water having available being Surf, while the other gets Hydro Pump, but not Fire Blast, and having to use Flamethrower instead?
It seems only semantically different, I know, but this way, it will always be the one that switches in who will have the advantage, right?
And we could vary them by the strength of the attacks they get in their movepool. Like the best Water move the Fire/Water having available being Surf, while the other gets Hydro Pump, but not Fire Blast, and having to use Flamethrower instead?
No. Fire/Water 4x resists fire, is weak to Electric, and is nuetral to Grass and Water. Advantage Drizzler. We might as well just make one pokemon if they're both going to have the same type.
Problem is, as pointed out earlier, fire is x4 resisted whereas water is neutral. This gives an advantage to the droughter in terms of switch-in damage, as if you expect a switch in you'd like throw a water attack. The droughter cuts that in half, whereas the drizzler increases it's damage. If you give it non-STAB attacks, then the Drizzler takes the advantage.
The only way to really do it seems to be the dragons (which still has an advantage for water, so not so much there) and the completely neutral types listed before.
So Dragons. Since most of the neutral types are a little wtf when trying to relate it to Water or Fire. Normal would work, but as a Castform split evo. Wait... not split or evo... Never mind the Castform idea.
Make them both pure Flying, like elemental spirits. "Weather" goes with "Atmosphere" and "Air" and other concepts that work with the general Flying concept. Flying doesn't have to mean "Birds".
Best idea yet, by far, imo.
I think Doug meant just flying.
So Mono-Flying with Drought, and Mono-Flying with Drizzle.
Will we set up a poll for this?
Yes, I already mentioned this.
We would just have to not give them SolarBeam and Thunder. Just because Thunder on the Drizzler would be unfair, and you lose SolarBeam to keep symmetry.
Well, I'd say as long as neither got it, or both got it. Why give one an advantage and not the other?
@Hyra: That makes sense. Also, no roost. If they roost, they become Null Types, so aints on Roost.
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