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Post new creative movesets/EV spreads here:

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I was wondering if this could work:

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Tyorge@ Life Orb
Adamant, Guts
252 Att, 252 Speed
-Hi Jump Kick/Brick Break
-Mach Punch
-EQ
-Fake Out/Bulk Up/Toxic

The stragety is the switch in on a Toxic/WoW and enjoy the Guts.
It's pretty powerful then. It reaches 185 Att x1,5 (Guts) x1,3 (Life Orb)= 360 Att.

I can also drop Life Orb and just give it a Toxic Orb and as last slot Fake Out but then it only reaches 277 Att.

No, the attack is awful, and its contenders Heracross, Hariyama and Machamp all surpass it above and beyond with better type coverage and overall stats.
 
Well, you can be original, but keep in mind that this isn't a gimmick thread. If you're going to post a set in this thread, a general rule of thumb is that doesn't get completely outclassed by something in the same tier, or whatever tier you're trying to use the pokemon in.

Eg. With that Tyrogue set, it gets outclassed by every Guts user out there (even Larvitar), because most of the Guts have the exact moves that Tyrogue has, but have better stats in EVERYTHING. Most of the hard hitters have 360 as their natural attack stat, while Tyrogue has 360 attack with a 1.95x boost in total. This is what we define as a gimmick. Not good. Even if it has Mach Punch to set it apart from other Guts users, then comes all the better Mach Punch users who are just plain better than it.

Meanwhile (don't take this super-seriously, but it's true), Larvitar at least some better things to set it apart from the other Guts users which could actually present viability in UU. Things such as STAB Earthquake compared to Tyranitar's absence of that, being the only Rock/Ground Guts user, being the only one to have Rock and Ground STAB moves, stronger Earthquake than Tyranitar or Pupitar after Guts, the only Dragon Dancing or Cursing Guts user, Curse leaving it as one of the few Guts users that don't mind Paralysis, etc. This is defined as a niche. This is good, because it means that he has viability in UU/NU because he is set apart from several different pokemon with his own strengths.
 
This sounds like the most gimmicky set ever, but I've been using it as a lead and its hilarious.

Yanmega @ Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
Nature: Naughty
EVs: 252 Attack / 216 Speed / 40 Special Attack
*Bug Buzz
*Air Slash
*Hypnosis
*Reversal

This thing is just funny, think of yanmega's main counters... Zapdos, Blissey, Heatran, Magnezone, Skarm, Snorlax, Regice. Zapdos and Skarm can just be slept by hypnosis, but Blissey, Heatran, Mag, Snorlax and etc will get eatin alive by a full power reversal before this baby goes down, as most people dont seem to bring them out right away. Its funny how many Blissey's I've slaughtered with this thing just for kicks.
 
actually, I've used a variation of that before on a rain team, with endure over hypnosis and holding a petaya berry. stealth rock means nothing for that bitch. I usually brought it out lategame, after whatever weather inducer died.
 
I just randomly thought of this, but I've never tried it, so it may not work:

dpffa036.png

Super Stall
Clefable @ Leftovers/Toxic Orb
EVs: 252 HP/128 Defense/128 Sp. Def. (?)
Bold/Impish/Calm/Careful Nature
Ability: Magic Guard
-Cosmic Power
-Lucky Chant
-Softboiled
-Toxic/Facade/Flamethrower/Thunderbolt/other filler

The big change here is the addition of Lucky Chant, which I don't think I've ever seen on any Pokémon set. The point is to Cosmic Power up while Lucky Chanting to create a super-unbreakable wall that can't be crit'd or statused. Softboiled is there for obvious reasons - to keep Clefable's health from being chipped away. Toxic is there to make it a truly annoying staller, or you can Facade with Toxic Orb for some nice damage. Flamethrower/Thunderbolt is for Steels that would otherwise turn things into a neverending stall war.

I need help with EVs on this thing, though.
 
I've been using this for a while and it has been great.



Punchnoir
Dusknoir
@ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP/252 Attack/6 Sp. Def.
Adamant
Ability: Pressure
-Focus Punch
-Shadow Sneak
-Substitute
-Will-O-Wisp/Counter I prefer WoW

A punching Dusknoir that can still burn things.
 
I just randomly thought of this, but I've never tried it, so it may not work:

dpffa036.png

Super Stall
Clefable @ Leftovers/Toxic Orb
EVs: 252 HP/128 Defense/128 Sp. Def. (?)
Bold/Impish/Calm/Careful Nature
Ability: Magic Guard
-Cosmic Power
-Lucky Chant
-Softboiled
-Toxic/Facade/Flamethrower/Thunderbolt/other filler

The big change here is the addition of Lucky Chant, which I don't think I've ever seen on any Pokémon set. The point is to Cosmic Power up while Lucky Chanting to create a super-unbreakable wall that can't be crit'd or statused. Softboiled is there for obvious reasons - to keep Clefable's health from being chipped away. Toxic is there to make it a truly annoying staller, or you can Facade with Toxic Orb for some nice damage. Flamethrower/Thunderbolt is for Steels that would otherwise turn things into a neverending stall war.

I need help with EVs on this thing, though.
According to X-act's calculator EV's should be:
252hp/200def/56spd calm nature

I really don't see much point to lucky chant there, I'd replace it with something to kill poisons and steels who would cut your toxi-stalling short (fire blast probably). Lucky chant might be ok if you pair it with dugtrio or magnezone or something to take out obstacles but I still don't think you'd worry much about crits.
 
Technically, "my" SubPetaya set (which was mostly suggested by some other guy) had Agility on it, but he got the Speed and everything better plus I almost forgot about it since October or whenever I put it up. It's in the analysis edit now! Isn't that cool? Kinda?

Uh, anyway, does anyone else here run 285 Speed on their Gliscors to actually outrun Adamant Heracross/Lucario and Jolly 80s?
 
Uh, anyway, does anyone else here run 285 Speed on their Gliscors to actually outrun Adamant Heracross/Lucario and Jolly 80s?

An interesting idea right there. I only ran 272 Speed on my SD Gliscors back when Mamoswine wasn't used very much. Although I don't see much of a point for more than 280 since Mamo will probably beat you anyway with Ice Shard.

I'm sure there are some crazy people who run 297 or even 300 Speed to outdo those pesky SD Facade Heracrosses. But that becomes superfluous, as your ability to wall seriously isn't nearly what it should be and your opponent will catch on.
 
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Lucario @ Leftovers
Modest nature
252 SpA 252 Spd 4 HP
~Aura Sphere
~Dragon Pulse/Shadow Ball
~Substitute
~Calm Mind

Essentially a frailer but more powerful SubCM Jirachi. Can Sub up on Celebi's Leech Seed, Earthquake-less Bronzong's Hypnosis, Cresselia's Thunder Wave, Milotic's Hypnosis and turn them into set-up fodder. After one Calm Mind you have the power of SpecsLuke while behind a Substitute; albeit losing type coverage. Aura Sphere is a must. For neutrality's sake there is either Dragon Pulse or Shadow Ball. Fighting + Dragon is not resisted by anything IIRC; as for something to resist Dragon it has to be Steel, which Fighting automatically makes neutral (and there are no Ghost/Steel Pokémon). Shadow Ball for the good ol' Fighting+Ghost combination. It is noteworthy that 4 HP EVs Garchomp, a Pokémon that can easily stop your sweep, is only 2HKO'd by Shadow Ball (after 1 CM, assuming it switches while Lucario CMs) , whereas Dragon Pulse OHKOs on average (95%-112%, guaranteed with SR up) while Garchomp breaks the Sub. And Dragon Pulse has a sightly higher Base Power.

Here are some damage calculations, assuming you can secure 2 CMs (which will be often the case against walls). Lucario is always Modest:
Code:
+2 Lucario Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP/148SpD Bold Cresselia:56-66%
+2 Lucario Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP/148SpD Bold Cresselia:31-37%
+2 Lucario Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP/0SpD Bold Cresselia:63-74%
+2 Lucario Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP/0SpD Bold Cresselia:35-41%
Cresselia at best can Psychic you, and is set-up fodder for Lucario. Cresselia needs to max her SpA to break 2 CM Lucario's Subs with Psychic.
Code:
+1 Lucario Dragon Pulse vs. Standard BulkyGyara: 38-45%
+1 Lucario Shadow Ball vs. Standard BulkyGyara: 34-40%
Both are a 2HKO on average with Stealth Rock; which is important because Gyarados can stop the sweep without SR.
Code:
+1 Lucario Dragon Pulse vs. Max HP/Sdef Dusknoir: 29-35 %
+1 Lucario Shadow Ball vs. Max HP/Sdef Dusknoir: 53-62%
Dusknoir can be a problem if you carry Dragon Pulse and he carries Fire/Thunder Punch.

I'll put up more calcs if this gets interest...But off my head, all physical walls are at worst 2HKO'd by Aura Sphere after 1 Calm Mind, Max/Max Milotic is 2HKO'd after 2 CMs, and Aura Sphere murders Snorlax, Blissey and Regice.

Conclusion
A niche that Jirachi/Raikou fulfill better IMO, but Lucario has the element of surprise with this set, along with improved initial power and a better attack combination. I've tested this set for a little while and it's been doing great (running Dragon Pulse ATM). A big downside to Lucario is that it is likely killed off by random attacks if it loses his Sub, unlike the much sturdier Jirachi. An upside is that Lucario has a very easy time dealing with Blissey, 2HKOing after 1 CM with Aura Sphere; while Raikou needs Toxic Spikes to outstall her and Jirachi takes a lot of time to set up on her.

Opinions/comments?
 
List of things that Lucario can't come in on:

Celebi's Leech Seed
Bronzong's Hypnosis
Cresselia's Thunder Wave
Milotic's Hypnosis

Also there's at least 3 other SubCMLucario's within this thread
 
dpmfa448.png

Lucario @ Leftovers
Modest nature
252 SpA 252 Spd 4 HP
~Aura Sphere
~Dragon Pulse/Shadow Ball
~Substitute
~Calm Mind

Essentially a frailer but more powerful SubCM Jirachi. Can come in and Sub in Celebi's Leech Seed, Earthquake-less Bronzong's Hypnosis, Cresselia's Thunder Wave, Milotic's Hypnosis and turn them into set-up fodder. After one Calm Mind you have the power of SpecsLuke while behind a Substitute; albeit losing type coverage. Aura Sphere is a must. For neutrality's sake there is either Dragon Pulse or Shadow Ball. Fighting + Dragon is not resisted by anything IIRC; as for something to resist Dragon it has to be Steel, which Fighting automatically makes neutral (and there are no Ghost/Steel Pokémon). Shadow Ball for the good ol' Fighting+Ghost combination. It is noteworthy that 4 HP EVs Garchomp, a Pokémon that can easily stop your sweep, is only 2HKO'd by Shadow Ball (after 1 CM, assuming it switches while Lucario CMs) , whereas Dragon Pulse OHKOs on average (95%-112%, guaranteed with SR up) while Garchomp breaks the Sub. And Dragon Pulse has a sightly higher Base Power.

Here are some damage calculations, assuming you can secure 2 CMs (which will be often the case against walls). Lucario is always Modest:
Code:
+2 Lucario Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP/148SpD Bold Cresselia:56-66%
+2 Lucario Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP/148SpD Bold Cresselia:31-37%
+2 Lucario Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP/0SpD Bold Cresselia:63-74%
+2 Lucario Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP/0SpD Bold Cresselia:35-41%
Cresselia at best can Psychic you, and is set-up fodder for Lucario. Cresselia needs to max her SpA to break 2 CM Lucario's Subs with Psychic.
Code:
+1 Lucario Dragon Pulse vs. Standard BulkyGyara: 38-45%
+1 Lucario Shadow Ball vs. Standard BulkyGyara: 34-40%
Both are a 2HKO on average with Stealth Rock; which is important because Gyarados can stop the sweep without SR.
Code:
+1 Lucario Dragon Pulse vs. Max HP/Sdef Dusknoir: 29-35 %
+1 Lucario Shadow Ball vs. Max HP/Sdef Dusknoir: 53-62%
Dusknoir can be a problem if you carry Dragon Pulse and he carries Fire/Thunder Punch.

I'll put up more calcs if this gets interest...But off my head, all physical walls are at worst 2HKO'd by Aura Sphere after 1 Calm Mind, Max/Max Milotic is 2HKO'd after 2 CMs, and Aura Sphere murders Snorlax, Blissey and Regice.

Conclusion
A niche that Jirachi/Raikou fulfill better IMO, but Lucario has the element of surprise with this set, along with improved initial power and a better attack combination. I've tested this set for a little while and it's been doing great (running Dragon Pulse ATM). A big downside to Lucario is that it is likely killed off by random attacks if it loses his Sub, unlike the much sturdier Jirachi. An upside is that Lucario has a very easy time dealing with Blissey, 2HKOing after 1 CM with Aura Sphere; while Raikou needs Toxic Spikes to outstall her and Jirachi takes a lot of time to set up on her.

Opinions/comments?
Actually I've thought and used this set before..only running Salac Berry instead of Leftovers..as it becomes fast + powerful that way.
 
List of things that Lucario can't come in on:

Celebi's Leech Seed
Bronzong's Hypnosis
Cresselia's Thunder Wave
Milotic's Hypnosis

Also there's at least 3 other SubCMLucario's within this thread
Eh well sorry I didn't mean switch in on those things. I'll need to rephrase that, thanks for pointing it out. I meant he can Sub up on those moves.

I guess Bold nature is also a viable option to make it bulkier. How about 237 Speed to outrun min. Speed Celebi so it cannot Seed you?

Well, thanks for the feedback everyone.
 
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The Invisible Lead

Alright, I've been leading my teams with Kecleon for a while now, and more often than not it provides a helpful early game. Main problem it has is that it's too fragile to last, and lacks power to do more than support. D:

Nonetheless, I'd like to see opinions on this leading Kecleon.

Kecleon @ Focus Sash/Leftovers
Trait: Colour Change
Nature: Sassy/Careful
Evs: 252 HP, 176 Def, 80 Sp.Def
~ Magic Coat
~ Counter
~ Stealth Rock/Attack
~ Thunder Wave/Trick Room/Attack

Moveset:

Let me just clarify what this set can do against rival leads.
~ Bronzong: Reflects Hypnosis, takes practically no damage from Gyro Ball and EQ can be countered for heavy damage.
~ Gengar: Thunder Wave paralyzes the thing, Trick Room renders its speed a Liability, and best of all, Coat can reflect Hypnosis, sending Gengar to bed early on.
~ Tyranitar: Kecleon's defense is actually pretty good. CB'd Stone Edge/Crunch can be taken and sent back with Counter, and no Tyranitar enjoys paralysis.
~ Gyara: Uuuh, taunt. =( Still, let the guy DD up then countersash it for luls. Wave helps also
~ Salamence: Specs Draco Meteor gives Kecleon Nightmares (60-80% damage), but Thunder Wave is always a boon.
~ Hippowdon: A little trickier this one. Counter hurts it, but it can Slack Off. You can set up in its face, too.
~ Azelf: Azelf isn't dealing too much damage, here. Thunder Wave = Liability Azelf. Trick Room = Scared Azelf, at least.
~ Yanmega: This one boils down to Hypno vs Protect. Either way, Kecleon wins. Hypnosis gets reflected, and if he protects, just T-Wave him next turn.
~ Ninjask: Uuh, uhm... Trick Room? Seriously, you don't need to counter jask. Just pack a roarer. >_>
~ Swampert: Counter and Coating SR.
~ Ape: Countersash ;3
~ Jolty: Okay, you win. Only think I can think of is TR, and that's asking for a Sub. If you have Boah on your team, though...
~ Weavile: Counter. You don't even need a sash for this one, lol.

~~ Magic Coat:

Reason #1 to use Kecleon. Magic Coat doesn't just reflect status, but ANYTHING wierd that targets your team. Might even work on stuff like Tickle Wobbuffet, or Charm/Metal Sound users, though I need to test that. This makes a great antistarter, though, because Stealth Rock and Hypnosis are popular leading moves.

~~ Thunder Wave:

Reason #2 to use Kecleon. If they don't try to harm your side, they're probably setting up on theirs. Because Kecleon has a massive movepool AND he's rarely seen, they're unlikely to see T-Wave coming along. WHAM. Paralyzed sweeper on turn one. ;3
This is one of Kecleon's best assets, IMO.

~~ Stealth Rock/Trick Room:

This is more filler than anything. Adds to Kecleon's utility here, but there are more long term users if you want someone more reliable.

~~ Attack

Here's the deal. Kecleon has so many viable moves here, it's not funny. Here's just a few possibilities...

Body Slam paralyzes ground types occasionally, and provides a decent STAB of his passable attack.
Sucker Punch/Shadow Sneak can finish off other sashers, but it's not exactly great off his attack/without stab.
Aerial Ace eases prediction against Breloom/Paralyzed Hera, but that's it.
Elemental Punches are fun. Intimidate from mence/gyara mean damage is a little disappointing, but it's there if you've waved them. They also all hurt Ninjask Greatly, but he'll be subbing most likely.
Swagger, Rest and Weather Moves, whilst not Attacks, are all fantastic options for the spare moveslot(s).

EVs:

Are a little random :(
252 HP is a must. His HP stat is lowest, and both of his defenses get used well.
the 176 Def, whilst being an EV number I like, allows him to take Random Brick Breaks (Jolly CB Weavile's (max 97%) and Jolly CB Mence's (Max 99%), for example) and counter back for ridiculous damage. Or just T-Wave them. <_< Either way, <3 how Brick Break has bad BP.
The rest is in Sp.Def for the bolster, but you can put them in Def if you fear adamant DDmence Brick Break.

Item:

Lol. Really the best choices around, since this set can't use Trick. If you wanted, you could make a trickbander, but this is a moveset competition, not an analysis competition. >_>
You could pump his speed and forego counter for Trick and toss on a Scarf, though.

Either way, Sash helps against monkeys and bugs with muscles.

Counters:

Taunt, combined with Special Attacks.
Recovery moves.
Dusknoir.
CM Slowbro.
Blissey.
Others.

Really, it's walls that don't lead, and Sub/CM Jira/Kou. Packing a dugtrio can help if they really worry you.

--

If you'd like to see more calculations, I'd happily do so.
 
I just caught a Mawile on XD with good IVs, but it has a Modest nature. My question: Would a Special Mawile work? And which moves does it need?

Maybe:
Mawile@Leftovers
Modest, 252 HP, 252 Speed, 4 sP.ATT
-Charge Beam
-Baton Pass
-Sing
-Ice Beam

or

Mawile@Life Orb
Modest, 252 Speed, 252 Sp.att
-Sunny Day
-Solarbeam
-Fire Blast
-Sing

or

Mawile@Life Orb
Modest, 252 Sp.att, 252 Speed, 4 HP
-Flamethrower
-Ice Beam
-Charge Beam
-Fake Tears

or something else, please help me :(
 
with modest and 252 Sp.Atk Mawile reaches 229 Sp.Atk not the best stat ever however could catch many people offguard in the UU Metagame. My best bet would be the first and last movesets. Try them maybe on the UU part of Shoddy so give it a shot and see.
 
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