To be honest, you'd probably be better off sticking with thunderbolt. It can be fairly easily obatained by making sure that the male pokémon knows the move.
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Little Cup Metagame
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Or by spending some of your actually infinite money buying a TM for it, since I don't think there are any Pokemon that learn it by egg move but not TM.
I used Pursuit Diglett in LC drafts because Gastly should try to run away.
Magnemite is awesome. Pretty much nothing can touch it to begin with, and then it can also Magnet Rise or Substitute, or cripple stuff with Thunder Wave.
Dragon Dance/Outrage/Draco Meteor/Flamethrower Dratini is a monster. Only Magnemite resists those Dragon moves, and he dies to Flamethrower. Choice Scarf Outrage Gible is great as well.
Tentacool is definitely fun. It doesn't really hurt much, but thanks to its pretty enormous SpDef it always gets Toxic Spikes in, which ruin Focus Sash and generally provide annoyance.
Which reminds me I only have experience with the L100 of playing this. In L5, base stats are much less important.
Magnemite is awesome. Pretty much nothing can touch it to begin with, and then it can also Magnet Rise or Substitute, or cripple stuff with Thunder Wave.
Dragon Dance/Outrage/Draco Meteor/Flamethrower Dratini is a monster. Only Magnemite resists those Dragon moves, and he dies to Flamethrower. Choice Scarf Outrage Gible is great as well.
Tentacool is definitely fun. It doesn't really hurt much, but thanks to its pretty enormous SpDef it always gets Toxic Spikes in, which ruin Focus Sash and generally provide annoyance.
Which reminds me I only have experience with the L100 of playing this. In L5, base stats are much less important.
Just curious, I'm wondering if anybody would be interested if I aimed my next breeding projects at Little Cup? Looking around the trade forum there isn't too much that's viable, and most people seem to offer pokes that are in the "level it up to get moves" range, vs breeding for moves from older parents.
After some testing on the CaP server, Yanma sweeps almost every game.
it is close to uncounterable with:
Yanma@LO
236 attack/236 speed
modest
Protect
Hypnosis
Air Slash
Bug Buzz
in 2/3 games it took down 4 Pokemon before dieing to LO recoil and Priority attacks.
it is close to uncounterable with:
Yanma@LO
236 attack/236 speed
modest
Protect
Hypnosis
Air Slash
Bug Buzz
in 2/3 games it took down 4 Pokemon before dieing to LO recoil and Priority attacks.
What about the other 38 Evs, eric?
There's no reason not to use Item Clause (well, there is...)
But the LC metagame isn't so centered around one item like Leftovers, so it's just a nice addon. And it stops loads of Focus Sash teams, which get annoying.
Eric, I personally like running HP [Water] over Air Slash. It hits more harder and has better coverage (which is why it hits harder, duh), but maybe that's just my personal choice.
But the LC metagame isn't so centered around one item like Leftovers, so it's just a nice addon. And it stops loads of Focus Sash teams, which get annoying.
Eric, I personally like running HP [Water] over Air Slash. It hits more harder and has better coverage (which is why it hits harder, duh), but maybe that's just my personal choice.
I can only really see this working with a lot of testing, because there's going to be quite a few banned Pokemon...
I've played seven or eight games with Yanma, and I'm going to agree that Yanma is very broken. I've never seen a game where it hasn't killed at least two or three Pokes. Speed Boost means it outspeeds anything and everything after a Protect without the need for a Scarf, throwing prediction out the window The common 'status takers' (think Murkrow and Staryu) are scared shitless of Yanma and so can't take Hypnosis well.
The fact that it isn't weak to any priority moves makes it that much harder to take down as well. Banning it seems logical, imo.
The fact that it isn't weak to any priority moves makes it that much harder to take down as well. Banning it seems logical, imo.
you cant get a single stat point from them on shoddy at Lv 5.
ops missed that, yes I did edited in.
well..... not really, but i tryed to start a 4 player tourney yesterday (it failed) and had a few battles, so about 3-4 people there now have a LC team.
Correct, we play with it off.
Hippotas, Snover and SR stop sash. Item Clause is not needed.
What for specifically? the rock and ground Pokemon are mostly 1KOd by Bug Buzz, and STAB Air Slash is nice with the flinch rate.
I don't think many need to be banned, maybe 4 or 5 or something but not that many.
I am trying to get as many people on the CaP server playing LC as I can, so go there.
We play LC Lv.5 with no Item Clause.
Right. Is anyone here against banning Yanma? If not we should ban it to the new tier of "LC Ubers" along with Scyther.
One more thing from this thread (please go to that thread to contribute sets):
I was thinking the same thing, and would be happy to help write some of them.[/QUOTE]
Anyone else want to help with this?
I'd love to help :p I'll write Magby's later today.
Are we writing them out in the standard Smogon analysis format?
EDIT: Oh, and I can't help but think that Cranidos is probably a bit overpowered too. It's got ridiculous attack, outspeeds pretty much everything with a Scarf/Rock Polish, and is then free to wreak havoc. The lack of viable sturdy rock resists makes it even more dangerous; you're looking at Rhyhorn, lol Onix, maybe a few other bulky grounds, and not much else.
Are we writing them out in the standard Smogon analysis format?
EDIT: Oh, and I can't help but think that Cranidos is probably a bit overpowered too. It's got ridiculous attack, outspeeds pretty much everything with a Scarf/Rock Polish, and is then free to wreak havoc. The lack of viable sturdy rock resists makes it even more dangerous; you're looking at Rhyhorn, lol Onix, maybe a few other bulky grounds, and not much else.
Yes, but we have not had it confirmed that they will be put up on the site yet. I would be surprised if they did not though.
Post it here and we will comment on it.
I think I will do.... Eevee or maybe Abra first.
Edit: Things to do
Make analysis for all common LC Pokemon.
Test and ban Pokemon that are too strong.
Write up some more stuff about what its like to play LC.
Write something about weather teams.
Play the game.
Some other stuff.
Eevee
[SET]
name: Endure-Flail
move 1: Endure
move 2: Flail
move 3: Bite
move 4: Quick Attack
item: Salac Berry
ability: Adaptability
nature: Jolly
evs: 236 Att / 236 Spe
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>A 400 (200 (1 HP Flail) X 2 (Adaptability)) base power move is quite scary in Little Cup even with a lowly attack of 15, and 24 speed is not to shabby ether. What you do is Endure on an attack that would KO you, then Flail. Bite takes down Ghastly who would absorb your Flails. Quick attack will beat those Sashers or frail Scarfers would would ruin your sweep, and benefits from Adaptability. Iron Tail is not an option for Rocks as even resisted Adaptability Flail has the same power as SE Iron Tail.</p>
<p>This is the probably best set for Eevee, but it is ruined by Sand and Hail, and bulky priority users or bulky Scarfers can revenge kill it.</p>
[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Double-Edge
move 2: Iron Tail
move 3: Quick Attack
move 4: Bite
item: Choice Band
ability: Adaptability
nature: Adamant
evs: 236 Att / 36 SpD/ 236 Spe
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>With a Choice Band Eevee's STAB attacks are effectively running off 48 Attack, an almost unheard of number in Little Cup, while Bite and Iron Tail are using a decent 24 Attack.</p>
<p>The problem is that with only 15 speed and unimpressive defences it will not last long enough to do much damage, Quick Attack helps with the former but 40 base power is a bit low.</p>
<p>Choice Scarf may seem attractive but 22-24 speed is still not great, and you lose 14-18 attack points.</p>
[Other Options]
<p> Substitute can go over Endure on the Flail set, but as before a Salac boost most things will outspeed you (and 1KO) it is a lesser option.</p>
<p>Sleep Talk is a decent option on the CB set over Iron Tail you lose the ability to hit Rock types hard but can absorb sleep for the team, remember that Choiced Sleep Talk will fail after its first use. Return can work over Double-Edge if that recoil is too much, but the drop in power is annoying.</p>
<p> Really Eevee does not have many other options, its movepool is so shallow that Dig is one of its best moves.....</p>
[EVs]
<p>236 evs are needed to max out both Speed and Attack, the other 36 will only get you a point if you place them in Sp. Defence, but on the Flail set you want to have lower defences so don't bother.</p>
[Opinion]
<p>Eevee has ridiculously powerful STAB attacks due to Adaptability, but is let down by poor speed and to an extent defences. 15-16 speed is not horrible if it can get a boost, but without one it will not last long.</p>
<p>It is a potent little sweeper that lacks the speed to be very common.</p>
[Counters]
<p> Its Flail is something to be feared so the best way to counter it is to not let it set up by not attacking as it uses Endure, Endure will fail and you may proceed to 1KO it, however you risk it being a CB or Scarf set.</p>
<p>Ghastly (and other Ghosts) can switch in on any normal moves with ease, but unless it is scarfed or sashed it will be beaten by Bite. Defensive rock types like Ryhorn can take a hit from Banded or Scarfed Eevee and KO back, but they will fall before the power of Flail.</p>
<p>Weather from Hippotas or Snover will render the Flail set nearly useless.</p>
<p>Most decently fast scarfed Pokemon can revenge kill Eevee so it will rarely sweep.</p>
Post it here and we will comment on it.
I think I will do.... Eevee or maybe Abra first.
Edit: Things to do
Make analysis for all common LC Pokemon.
Test and ban Pokemon that are too strong.
Write up some more stuff about what its like to play LC.
Write something about weather teams.
Play the game.
Some other stuff.
Eevee
[SET]
name: Endure-Flail
move 1: Endure
move 2: Flail
move 3: Bite
move 4: Quick Attack
item: Salac Berry
ability: Adaptability
nature: Jolly
evs: 236 Att / 236 Spe
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>A 400 (200 (1 HP Flail) X 2 (Adaptability)) base power move is quite scary in Little Cup even with a lowly attack of 15, and 24 speed is not to shabby ether. What you do is Endure on an attack that would KO you, then Flail. Bite takes down Ghastly who would absorb your Flails. Quick attack will beat those Sashers or frail Scarfers would would ruin your sweep, and benefits from Adaptability. Iron Tail is not an option for Rocks as even resisted Adaptability Flail has the same power as SE Iron Tail.</p>
<p>This is the probably best set for Eevee, but it is ruined by Sand and Hail, and bulky priority users or bulky Scarfers can revenge kill it.</p>
[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Double-Edge
move 2: Iron Tail
move 3: Quick Attack
move 4: Bite
item: Choice Band
ability: Adaptability
nature: Adamant
evs: 236 Att / 36 SpD/ 236 Spe
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>With a Choice Band Eevee's STAB attacks are effectively running off 48 Attack, an almost unheard of number in Little Cup, while Bite and Iron Tail are using a decent 24 Attack.</p>
<p>The problem is that with only 15 speed and unimpressive defences it will not last long enough to do much damage, Quick Attack helps with the former but 40 base power is a bit low.</p>
<p>Choice Scarf may seem attractive but 22-24 speed is still not great, and you lose 14-18 attack points.</p>
[Other Options]
<p> Substitute can go over Endure on the Flail set, but as before a Salac boost most things will outspeed you (and 1KO) it is a lesser option.</p>
<p>Sleep Talk is a decent option on the CB set over Iron Tail you lose the ability to hit Rock types hard but can absorb sleep for the team, remember that Choiced Sleep Talk will fail after its first use. Return can work over Double-Edge if that recoil is too much, but the drop in power is annoying.</p>
<p> Really Eevee does not have many other options, its movepool is so shallow that Dig is one of its best moves.....</p>
[EVs]
<p>236 evs are needed to max out both Speed and Attack, the other 36 will only get you a point if you place them in Sp. Defence, but on the Flail set you want to have lower defences so don't bother.</p>
[Opinion]
<p>Eevee has ridiculously powerful STAB attacks due to Adaptability, but is let down by poor speed and to an extent defences. 15-16 speed is not horrible if it can get a boost, but without one it will not last long.</p>
<p>It is a potent little sweeper that lacks the speed to be very common.</p>
[Counters]
<p> Its Flail is something to be feared so the best way to counter it is to not let it set up by not attacking as it uses Endure, Endure will fail and you may proceed to 1KO it, however you risk it being a CB or Scarf set.</p>
<p>Ghastly (and other Ghosts) can switch in on any normal moves with ease, but unless it is scarfed or sashed it will be beaten by Bite. Defensive rock types like Ryhorn can take a hit from Banded or Scarfed Eevee and KO back, but they will fall before the power of Flail.</p>
<p>Weather from Hippotas or Snover will render the Flail set nearly useless.</p>
<p>Most decently fast scarfed Pokemon can revenge kill Eevee so it will rarely sweep.</p>
Magby analysis;
[SET]
name: Mixed Choice Scarf
move 1: Fire Blast / Overheat
move 2: Thunderpunch
move 3: Hidden Power Grass
move 4: Cross Chop
item: Choice Scarf
nature: Hasty
evs: 252Spe, 200SpA
ivs: 30 HP / 30SpA
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Magby makes a decent Choice Scarfer; despite his already decent speed at 83 base, it's still outsped by a lot and in a metagame where speed is everything, a Choice Scarf set seems most fitting. Overheat or Fire Blast provide high-powered STAB; I would probably lean towards Fire Blast, as with the speed this set offers he can clean up a battle without halving his SpA, and the chance of a burn might put something out of commision. However, Overheat is decent for a more hit-and-run style of play. Flamethrower is an option if you despise missing. Flare Blitz would be a decent option here, but the recoil is offputting and it's illegal with Cross Chop. </p>
<p>Thunderpunch and Hidden Power Grass between them hit the vast majority of types who might otherwise stop you, whilst Cross Chop hits the likes of Munchlax harder, who loves to come in on Fire Blasts with the resistance offered by Thick Fat.</p>
[SET]
name: Sub-Punch
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Focus Punch
move 3: Fire Blast
move 4: Hidden Power Grass
item: Salac Berry
Nature: Hasty
evs: 252Spe, 200SpA
ivs: 14 HP / 30SpA
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This set can be very dangerous, especially when your opponent isn't expecting it. Come in on the revenge kill against something that's terrified of Magby, and Sub on the switch. Pummel them as necessary. When you've substituted a few times, Salac Berry will activate and you can attempt a sweep with Fire Blast and Hidden Power Grass. Hidden Power Grass is the best option for the last slot here; it provides coverage against the likes of Rhyhorn, Omanyte, Chinchou, Wailmer and Krabby, who would otherwise wall you.</p>
<p>A HP IV of 14 and Special attack of 30 gives Hidden Power Grass 70, and also ensures that you have a HP stat of 20, so that your Salac Berry activates after three substitutes. If you prefer, this set can be played with a Petaya Berry, but generally Magby is too slow to attempt a sweep without some form of boost. This set is also pretty good for abusing Magby's ability, Flame Body. By forcing your opponent to hit you repeatedly, generally with physical attacks due to Magby's much lower base defense, it has a high chance to activate and burn your opponent, halving their attack and making them a much less potent threat to your team.</p>
[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Flare Blitz
move 2: Thunderpunch
move 3: Mach Punch
move 4: Will-o-Wisp / Sleep Talk
item: Choice Band
nature: Jolly
evs: 252Spe, 236Atk
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Magby can lay out quite a hurting with this set. Flare Blitz is your main form of offense, putting big holes in whatever doesn't resist it. Thunderpunch hits the likes of Krabby who might try and get in your way, whilst Mach Punch supplies you with an invaluable priority move. The last slot is much more open; the problem is that Magby doesn't get much in the way of physical attacks. Unfortunately, Cross Chop is illegal with Flare Blitz. Sleep Talk gives your team methods of dealing with sleep, seeing as ReSTalkers are such a liability in Little Cup. Bear in mind that it will fail after it's first use though. Will-o-wisp shuts down any physical attackers that decide to switch in, such as Krabby.</p>
<p>Jolly is a decent choice over Adamant; allowing you to beat the likes of +Spe Gastly, Modest Abra and potentially Adamant Diglett. However, the extra power offered by Lonely seems greater, as most Diglett/Abra will be +Spe or Scarfed anyway. If you really, really want Cross Chop, you can run Fire Punch in place of Flare Blitz and stick Cross Chop in the final slot.</p>
[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Overheat / Fire Blast
move 2: Cross Chop
move 3: Hidden Power Grass
move 4: Will-o-Wisp / Sleep Talk
item: Choice Specs
Nature: Hasty
evs: 252Spe, 200SpA
ivs: 30 HP / 30SpA
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Magby's special movepool is just as bad as it's physical one, though at least it gets Cross Chop here to deal with Munchlax better. Overheat is preferred here, as the lack of a speed boosting item makes it suitable for obscenely powerful hit-and-run attacks. However, Fire Blast is still an option if you dislike having to switch out after launching an attack. Hidden Power Grass deals with the vast majority of water types in the tier who might come in on your Overheat. Will-o-wisp screams 'filler', but short of Psychic (Which hits pretty much nothing that isn't covered already) there is literally nothing else worthwhile in Magby's special movepool to abuse. Sleep Talk, again, gives you something to switch in on status, which Magby does relatively well, being immune to burns and not caring about the never-used Toxic. Be wary of paralysis though.</p>
[Other options]
<p>Magby doesn't really get very much else of note. You could try a mixed Life Orb set, but Magby's a little slow and fragile to pull that off. Counter, in combination with a Focus Sash, turns Magby's low defense into an advantage, and is relatively viable due to the rarity of rogue weather and entry hazards in Little Cup play. Despite the minimal coverage offered, Return could be an acceptable filler on the Choice Band variant if you have a safe switch-in to Gligar, or if Hidden Power Ice is unavailable. Iron Tail is inaccurate and also has poor coverage, but can hit bulky Rock types such as Rhyhorn harder. </p>
<p>Lava Plume offers a decent burn rate, but Magby generally prefers immediate power as opposed to possible side-effects. Brick Break is an alternative to Cross Chop if you hate missing, though the power decrease is significant. Focus Punch is a very good option on any of the above sets, if you fancy your prediction skills. Sunny Day gives your STAB Fire attacks a 1.5x boost, but Magby's never going to set it up and get some sort of use out of it before fainting, so don't bother. Psychic is available on special-based sets, but it hits very little that isn't already covered and as such is generally a poor option.</p>
[EVs]
<p>Generally, you'll want to max speed. 252 EV's hits 19 speed, which outspeeds neutral Abra, Ponyta, Staryu as well as +Spe Gastly. The Scarfer hits a massive 28 speed; don't drop it by a single point or you'll lose to Scarf Abra and Ponyta, and miss out on the tie with the likes of Scarf Diglett. After that, 196 SpA EV's hits 16, though you'll need 200 if you are running Hidden Power Grass (as a 30 IV is required) With the Choice Bander, just stick it all in Atk and Spe; Magby doesn't have the time to be taking hits. </p>
[Opinion]
<p>In itself, Magby is a decent Pokemon. Good stat distribution, high powered STAB attacks on both sides of the attacking spectrum, and capable of putting dents in pretty much everything. Magby is let down slightly by a limited movepool and generally useless defenses, however his offensive capabilities are fantastic and make him a very potent threat. A good choice for any Little Cup team.</p>
[Counters]
<p>Nothing can really come in on anything Magby does safely, however, Flash Fire Pokemon such as Growlithe, Houndour and Ponyta are a good intial bet, and pretty much the only Pokemon that can come in repeatedly against Magby's STAB attacks. For the choiced sets, playing to resistances is the best way to beat Magby. 'Bulky' waters, such as Chinchou and Omanyte can come in on Specs/Scarfed Fire Blasts, and OHKO Magby with Surf. Krabby and Omanyte can come in on CB Flare Blitz. Wailmer can come in on his STAB Fire attacks, and kill him off with it's water STAB, but must be wary of depowering Water Spout. With all of these bulky waters, watch out for Thunderpunch and Hidden Power Grass. </p>
<p>Mantyke makes a solid switch-in to anything except for a Thunderpunch, and to a lesser extent a Choice Banded Flare Blitz, with that excellent set of resistances. Tentacool can take special hits like a champ too, but must watch out for Thunderpunch or the Choice Bander. Munchlax is an acceptable switch in on the special based sets thanks to the Fire resistance offered to him by Thick Fat, but must watch out for Focus Punch, Cross Chop, and the Choice Bander.</p>
<p>Bulky Rock types are acceptable switches into the physical sets, particularly the likes of Rhydon and Geodude. Again, watch out for Hidden Power Grass, which will easily OHKO both. Nosepass and Onix also excel at coming in on Magby's STAB attacks, on the physical sets, and to an extent the special based sets if Sandstream is running (Again, though Hidden Power Grass is a problem) However, the latter two are generally not really very good in the Little Cup otherwise, so Rhydon and Geodude are probably your best bets.</p>
<p>Diglett gets a mention for being able to trap Magby and OHKO with Earthquake. Electric immunity allows it to come in with good prediction on a Choiced Thunderpunch for a free OHKO. Be wary of Choice Scarfers though when attempting a revenge kill, unless you run Choice Scarf Diglett. Trapinch can kill a Choiced Magby locked into Thunderpunch, but don't try otherwise unless Trick Room is up.</p>
-------------------------
Still need to bulk up the 'Counters' section a bit, as well as maybe refining the EV section. Otherwise, howzat?
EDIT: Eric, that looks pretty solid :) There isn't a speed tier list anywhere, is there?
[SET]
name: Mixed Choice Scarf
move 1: Fire Blast / Overheat
move 2: Thunderpunch
move 3: Hidden Power Grass
move 4: Cross Chop
item: Choice Scarf
nature: Hasty
evs: 252Spe, 200SpA
ivs: 30 HP / 30SpA
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Magby makes a decent Choice Scarfer; despite his already decent speed at 83 base, it's still outsped by a lot and in a metagame where speed is everything, a Choice Scarf set seems most fitting. Overheat or Fire Blast provide high-powered STAB; I would probably lean towards Fire Blast, as with the speed this set offers he can clean up a battle without halving his SpA, and the chance of a burn might put something out of commision. However, Overheat is decent for a more hit-and-run style of play. Flamethrower is an option if you despise missing. Flare Blitz would be a decent option here, but the recoil is offputting and it's illegal with Cross Chop. </p>
<p>Thunderpunch and Hidden Power Grass between them hit the vast majority of types who might otherwise stop you, whilst Cross Chop hits the likes of Munchlax harder, who loves to come in on Fire Blasts with the resistance offered by Thick Fat.</p>
[SET]
name: Sub-Punch
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Focus Punch
move 3: Fire Blast
move 4: Hidden Power Grass
item: Salac Berry
Nature: Hasty
evs: 252Spe, 200SpA
ivs: 14 HP / 30SpA
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This set can be very dangerous, especially when your opponent isn't expecting it. Come in on the revenge kill against something that's terrified of Magby, and Sub on the switch. Pummel them as necessary. When you've substituted a few times, Salac Berry will activate and you can attempt a sweep with Fire Blast and Hidden Power Grass. Hidden Power Grass is the best option for the last slot here; it provides coverage against the likes of Rhyhorn, Omanyte, Chinchou, Wailmer and Krabby, who would otherwise wall you.</p>
<p>A HP IV of 14 and Special attack of 30 gives Hidden Power Grass 70, and also ensures that you have a HP stat of 20, so that your Salac Berry activates after three substitutes. If you prefer, this set can be played with a Petaya Berry, but generally Magby is too slow to attempt a sweep without some form of boost. This set is also pretty good for abusing Magby's ability, Flame Body. By forcing your opponent to hit you repeatedly, generally with physical attacks due to Magby's much lower base defense, it has a high chance to activate and burn your opponent, halving their attack and making them a much less potent threat to your team.</p>
[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Flare Blitz
move 2: Thunderpunch
move 3: Mach Punch
move 4: Will-o-Wisp / Sleep Talk
item: Choice Band
nature: Jolly
evs: 252Spe, 236Atk
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Magby can lay out quite a hurting with this set. Flare Blitz is your main form of offense, putting big holes in whatever doesn't resist it. Thunderpunch hits the likes of Krabby who might try and get in your way, whilst Mach Punch supplies you with an invaluable priority move. The last slot is much more open; the problem is that Magby doesn't get much in the way of physical attacks. Unfortunately, Cross Chop is illegal with Flare Blitz. Sleep Talk gives your team methods of dealing with sleep, seeing as ReSTalkers are such a liability in Little Cup. Bear in mind that it will fail after it's first use though. Will-o-wisp shuts down any physical attackers that decide to switch in, such as Krabby.</p>
<p>Jolly is a decent choice over Adamant; allowing you to beat the likes of +Spe Gastly, Modest Abra and potentially Adamant Diglett. However, the extra power offered by Lonely seems greater, as most Diglett/Abra will be +Spe or Scarfed anyway. If you really, really want Cross Chop, you can run Fire Punch in place of Flare Blitz and stick Cross Chop in the final slot.</p>
[SET]
name: Choice Specs
move 1: Overheat / Fire Blast
move 2: Cross Chop
move 3: Hidden Power Grass
move 4: Will-o-Wisp / Sleep Talk
item: Choice Specs
Nature: Hasty
evs: 252Spe, 200SpA
ivs: 30 HP / 30SpA
[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Magby's special movepool is just as bad as it's physical one, though at least it gets Cross Chop here to deal with Munchlax better. Overheat is preferred here, as the lack of a speed boosting item makes it suitable for obscenely powerful hit-and-run attacks. However, Fire Blast is still an option if you dislike having to switch out after launching an attack. Hidden Power Grass deals with the vast majority of water types in the tier who might come in on your Overheat. Will-o-wisp screams 'filler', but short of Psychic (Which hits pretty much nothing that isn't covered already) there is literally nothing else worthwhile in Magby's special movepool to abuse. Sleep Talk, again, gives you something to switch in on status, which Magby does relatively well, being immune to burns and not caring about the never-used Toxic. Be wary of paralysis though.</p>
[Other options]
<p>Magby doesn't really get very much else of note. You could try a mixed Life Orb set, but Magby's a little slow and fragile to pull that off. Counter, in combination with a Focus Sash, turns Magby's low defense into an advantage, and is relatively viable due to the rarity of rogue weather and entry hazards in Little Cup play. Despite the minimal coverage offered, Return could be an acceptable filler on the Choice Band variant if you have a safe switch-in to Gligar, or if Hidden Power Ice is unavailable. Iron Tail is inaccurate and also has poor coverage, but can hit bulky Rock types such as Rhyhorn harder. </p>
<p>Lava Plume offers a decent burn rate, but Magby generally prefers immediate power as opposed to possible side-effects. Brick Break is an alternative to Cross Chop if you hate missing, though the power decrease is significant. Focus Punch is a very good option on any of the above sets, if you fancy your prediction skills. Sunny Day gives your STAB Fire attacks a 1.5x boost, but Magby's never going to set it up and get some sort of use out of it before fainting, so don't bother. Psychic is available on special-based sets, but it hits very little that isn't already covered and as such is generally a poor option.</p>
[EVs]
<p>Generally, you'll want to max speed. 252 EV's hits 19 speed, which outspeeds neutral Abra, Ponyta, Staryu as well as +Spe Gastly. The Scarfer hits a massive 28 speed; don't drop it by a single point or you'll lose to Scarf Abra and Ponyta, and miss out on the tie with the likes of Scarf Diglett. After that, 196 SpA EV's hits 16, though you'll need 200 if you are running Hidden Power Grass (as a 30 IV is required) With the Choice Bander, just stick it all in Atk and Spe; Magby doesn't have the time to be taking hits. </p>
[Opinion]
<p>In itself, Magby is a decent Pokemon. Good stat distribution, high powered STAB attacks on both sides of the attacking spectrum, and capable of putting dents in pretty much everything. Magby is let down slightly by a limited movepool and generally useless defenses, however his offensive capabilities are fantastic and make him a very potent threat. A good choice for any Little Cup team.</p>
[Counters]
<p>Nothing can really come in on anything Magby does safely, however, Flash Fire Pokemon such as Growlithe, Houndour and Ponyta are a good intial bet, and pretty much the only Pokemon that can come in repeatedly against Magby's STAB attacks. For the choiced sets, playing to resistances is the best way to beat Magby. 'Bulky' waters, such as Chinchou and Omanyte can come in on Specs/Scarfed Fire Blasts, and OHKO Magby with Surf. Krabby and Omanyte can come in on CB Flare Blitz. Wailmer can come in on his STAB Fire attacks, and kill him off with it's water STAB, but must be wary of depowering Water Spout. With all of these bulky waters, watch out for Thunderpunch and Hidden Power Grass. </p>
<p>Mantyke makes a solid switch-in to anything except for a Thunderpunch, and to a lesser extent a Choice Banded Flare Blitz, with that excellent set of resistances. Tentacool can take special hits like a champ too, but must watch out for Thunderpunch or the Choice Bander. Munchlax is an acceptable switch in on the special based sets thanks to the Fire resistance offered to him by Thick Fat, but must watch out for Focus Punch, Cross Chop, and the Choice Bander.</p>
<p>Bulky Rock types are acceptable switches into the physical sets, particularly the likes of Rhydon and Geodude. Again, watch out for Hidden Power Grass, which will easily OHKO both. Nosepass and Onix also excel at coming in on Magby's STAB attacks, on the physical sets, and to an extent the special based sets if Sandstream is running (Again, though Hidden Power Grass is a problem) However, the latter two are generally not really very good in the Little Cup otherwise, so Rhydon and Geodude are probably your best bets.</p>
<p>Diglett gets a mention for being able to trap Magby and OHKO with Earthquake. Electric immunity allows it to come in with good prediction on a Choiced Thunderpunch for a free OHKO. Be wary of Choice Scarfers though when attempting a revenge kill, unless you run Choice Scarf Diglett. Trapinch can kill a Choiced Magby locked into Thunderpunch, but don't try otherwise unless Trick Room is up.</p>
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Still need to bulk up the 'Counters' section a bit, as well as maybe refining the EV section. Otherwise, howzat?
EDIT: Eric, that looks pretty solid :) There isn't a speed tier list anywhere, is there?
very, very good.
a few nitpicks:
Could you say how much speed it gets with Choice Scarf?
And probably remove Overheat from this set.
Sub-Punch looks deadly but would it be better to invest more in Phy. attack and use Phy. attacks over Fire Blast and HP Grass. Also what IV spread gives you HP grass and a 15 HP IV?
Also could you give some examples of what HP grass is for?
Fire Punch+Cross Chop as an option over Flare Blitz+HP Ice could be in set comments.
Fire Blast may be an option over Overheat on specs.
For the counters section maybe say something about Sp. defensive Rock types in a sandstorm being able to come in on Fire attacks.
Water and Water/Rocks will take little from fire attacks, but HP Grass or Thunderpunch will KO them.
Fast sashers can come in a sub survive the Focus Punch as they KO the sub and beat it down.
Brilliant Analysis EH.
a few nitpicks:
Could you say how much speed it gets with Choice Scarf?
And probably remove Overheat from this set.
Sub-Punch looks deadly but would it be better to invest more in Phy. attack and use Phy. attacks over Fire Blast and HP Grass. Also what IV spread gives you HP grass and a 15 HP IV?
Also could you give some examples of what HP grass is for?
something is wrong with this.
Fire Punch+Cross Chop as an option over Flare Blitz+HP Ice could be in set comments.
Fire Blast may be an option over Overheat on specs.
Lack should be changed to rarity, as Hippotas, Snover and SR are used to removes sashes.
I don't think anything in LC has time to set up Sunny Day.
have you played around with EVs on shoddy? 236 is not always needed to get max in the stat so you should try it out a bit and say how much is needed. HP grass will also change it and may require a extra few EVs.
For the counters section maybe say something about Sp. defensive Rock types in a sandstorm being able to come in on Fire attacks.
Water and Water/Rocks will take little from fire attacks, but HP Grass or Thunderpunch will KO them.
Fast sashers can come in a sub survive the Focus Punch as they KO the sub and beat it down.
Brilliant Analysis EH.
Can't check statistics at the moment; no java on this PC :p I'll have a play around with it on Shoddy on the other PC later :)
Main reason that I chose to go down the special route on the sub-puncher is the higher-powered STAB; whilst you get Fire Blast for special, you're limited to Fire Punch as physical attacks go (Flare Blitz will kill you when you're that low on health) IIRC, Fire/Grass hits a lot of stuff for SE, most notably Omastar, Rhyhorn, Onix, Lanturn, Larvitar, Bonsly, Wailmer, etc. I'll sort out the IV spread when I can get onto Shoddy :p
Yeah, that was meant to be Lonely, not Hasty :p I'll change that, as well as the Fire Punch thing.
I agree with everything else; I'll try and fix it a bit after I've done some homework :p Thanks for the fixes :)
eric_the_espeon said:
Main reason that I chose to go down the special route on the sub-puncher is the higher-powered STAB; whilst you get Fire Blast for special, you're limited to Fire Punch as physical attacks go (Flare Blitz will kill you when you're that low on health) IIRC, Fire/Grass hits a lot of stuff for SE, most notably Omastar, Rhyhorn, Onix, Lanturn, Larvitar, Bonsly, Wailmer, etc. I'll sort out the IV spread when I can get onto Shoddy :p
eric_the_espeon said:
Yeah, that was meant to be Lonely, not Hasty :p I'll change that, as well as the Fire Punch thing.
I agree with everything else; I'll try and fix it a bit after I've done some homework :p Thanks for the fixes :)
Ok that all sounds fine, what do you think of my Eevee one? I just updated it.
yes... you reminded me about eevee. But I found it first, follow link.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1033869&highlight=eevee#post1033869
There 3rd set down, I made that set in March.
Looks good, for the most part. I personally think that Double-Edge deserves a mention somewhere; being his most powerful STAB option.
This would probably seem gimmicky at best, but maybe Sleep Talk in 'other options' for the Choice Bander? Sleep moves are everywhere and really hard to respond to seeing as ReSTalkers are generally impractical. That could probably get a mention in the Magby analysis too, seeing as he's pretty short on options too.
Otherwise, it looks pretty solid :) Good job :p
This would probably seem gimmicky at best, but maybe Sleep Talk in 'other options' for the Choice Bander? Sleep moves are everywhere and really hard to respond to seeing as ReSTalkers are generally impractical. That could probably get a mention in the Magby analysis too, seeing as he's pretty short on options too.
Otherwise, it looks pretty solid :) Good job :p
Good point, Double-Edge will replace Return on the CB set, Sleep Talk could go over Iron Tail on the CB set I suppose, but there is not room for it on the Flail set.