• Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!

Lets actually talk about Mew in OU...

Sweeper Mew is arguably more powerful than Tail Glow Manaphy. With Nasty Plot and the Movepool that Manaphy can only wish for (Bolt/Beam, Ghost/Fighting, Mixed Ice / Ground with IceBeam / Earthquake , Dragon / Fire...) there is no single reliable counter to Mew. And that only covers 3 attacks. Throw in a 3rd and you've easily got complete type coverage, or you can taunt to screw walls over, or you can baton pass when the times get tough.

Don't forget, Mew is up there as far as bulk is concerned. Mew can take an Life Orb Weavile Night Slash with no EV investment and KO back with Aura Sphere. With just 28 Defense EVs, Mew will always survive an Adamant Tyranitar Crunch, and will always survive CB Pursuit if it doesn't switch out. Granted, Manaphy reaches a similar level of bulkiness with an arguably better typing and ability for stalling... but thats why Manaphy is banned to Uber as well.

Even if we ignore Baton Pass here... what Mew got over Gengar is major bulk. Gengar cannot survive against LO Weavile Night Slashes, Adamant T-Tar Crunches, or CB Pursuits.
 
Can't Mew completely outclass a Ditto/Smeargle Transform set though? Mew could have Taunt, two attacking moves, and then when a counter switches in, Transform into it completely unexpectedly. Still another option to consider, it's really not even in the same league as Smeargle or Ditto.

But still, testing proved Deoxys-E wasn't worth all the hype, so a Mew test wouldn't be unprecedented or out of the question.
 
Bologo said:
I do remember that in one of the tournaments where Mew was allowed in ADV, Transformer Mew had to be banned because it was just simply too good.

I personally don't care where Mew ends up, I'm just saying to take Transform into consideration.
Click to expand...

ADV Transform Mew was banned because a Netbattle glitch gave Transformed Pokemon 252 in all EVs after transforming.

Transform Mew should be the least of what people are worried about... once Transformed, you know exactly what 4 moves it copied and can easily take advantage of that information.
 
scorchedsky said:
Can't Mew completely outclass a Ditto/Smeargle Transform set though? Mew could have Taunt, two attacking moves, and then when a counter switches in, Transform into it completely unexpectedly. Still another option to consider, it's really not even in the same league as Smeargle or Ditto.

But still, testing proved Deoxys-E wasn't worth all the hype, so a Mew test wouldn't be unprecedented or out of the question.
Click to expand...

to be honest, i'm surprised that deoxys is now officially OU. i have it on one of my main teams, and i have to say, it tears shit up :P . seriously, name me a sturdy deoxys counter. i would say metagross and bronzong would be as good as it gets and both of them lack recovery moves. rest talk is as good as it gets and we all know how unreliable that can be. i have a feeling that a lot of people either use deoxys in all the wrong situations or don't use it at all because they think it's cheap and it clashes with their poke-morals.

how is all this relevant? all i'm trying to say is that testing for the broad public may not be the best way to determine whether or not a pokemon fits in a tier. if you want a true test, you would ask all the top players to test it out between themselves and that could prove difficult. tourneys are a tricky thing too as the players who believe a poke is broken and have a good reason for it may not join the tourney for the same reasons.
 
animenagai said:
to be honest, i'm surprised that deoxys is now officially OU. i have it on one of my main teams, and i have to say, it tears shit up :P . seriously, name me a sturdy deoxys counter. i would say metagross and bronzong would be as good as it gets and both of them lack recovery moves. rest talk is as good as it gets and we all know how unreliable that can be. i have a feeling that a lot of people either use deoxys in all the wrong situations or don't use it at all because they think it's cheap and it clashes with their poke-morals.

how is all this relevant? all i'm trying to say is that testing for the broad public may not be the best way to determine whether or not a pokemon fits in a tier. if you want a true test, you would ask all the top players to test it out between themselves and that could prove difficult. tourneys are a tricky thing too as the players who believe a poke is broken and have a good reason for it may not join the tourney for the same reasons.
Click to expand...

Gai is right. Testing a highly controvesal pokemon like Mew (2+ pass to anything! No way!) may get the same results with the Wobb testing. Pretty much, the usage statistics and the general opinion of the community couldn't have been more different. I'm all for testing Mew but we need to find a fair system for testing it.
 
usage statistics are useless as a marker as people just stick the the same tried and tested OU's, what we have to consider is people find a ridiculous move set over time, unlike deoxys, mew can do damage
 
phalanx said:
usage statistics are useless as a marker as people just stick the the same tried and tested OU's, what we have to consider is people find a ridiculous move set over time, unlike deoxys, mew can do damage
Click to expand...

I don't quite understand what you're trying to say. Tiers are based on usage. Usage determines power to a certain degree in a competitive environment (Eg. Lot's of people are using Garchomp. He must be a good pokemon!). If people aren't using a pokemon, chances are it isn't that good (eg. the reason why Magikarp is uncommon is because it musn't be very good). If Mew is getting used alot AND is centralising the metagame, then it is very likely to be Uber. I think the reason Wobb isn't used much is because the general public dislike it (Eg. Wobb is gay comments). This could ver well happen to Mew. If you're saying people won't use it because of the fact it isn't a veteran OU, look at the massive usage increase Mamo and Tentacruel had. They were both UU at one point. And Deoxys is a great late game cleaner, so again, I don't understand your point.
 
well yes but from observations most people are copying each others squads somewhat now, only the new players making an OU team for the first time will go o look mew, use it still lose and give false readings, currently i see nothing in any team where the BP capabilitys of mew will be used as people are not implementing BP in the first instance. wobb is broken (it survives things it shouldn't and is broken with a combination with a 2nd trapper) but again no one uses it, the metagame is currently too static for new pokes to be used, although mew could come in as a replacement to celebi where in my view the loss of bug/ice/fire weaknesses make it a little bit to strong anyway
 
For those going on about Mew's 4 move slot syndrome, I'd like to remind that flexible pokemon like mew have both surprise (which a lot of people have touched on and yes, it is a limited factor I recognize), and also the ability to be shaped even better for the team it is going to serve. Pokemon is not a game of 6 1-v-1 matches, it's a game of teamwork, and Mew's versatility lets it become a very skilled team player.
 
I'd like to remind you that Transform Mew might carry Softboiled, giving the opportunity to theoretically transform multiple times... Taunt also really rocks on that set and Hypnosis nearly guarantees a successful Transform... As a last resort just use Explosion and take one more Pokémon down...
Imo, Mew is far too versatile and unpredictable for OU; especially its splendid defenses for a BPer are making it imbalanced. And Transform Mew really screws over a lot of teams...
 
But if Mew transforms, then don't you get rid of the main problem with Mew? Also, you know ecactly how to use the set if it's not the standard, while the opponent may not. Also, you only have 5pp for each move when you transform, IIRC.
 
Bologo said:
Transform o.O
Click to expand...

Don't forget that for that Mew to Transform into Azelf, it needs to take the Nasty Plotted Flamethrower/Fire Blast first (Modest Azelf has 329 Spe, while Timid Mew has 328, so not outspeeding it), which means it will indeed be on lower HP than Azelf AND it no longer has his own 236 minimum defenses but Azelf's lower versions. The opponent also knows what he's fighting now (his own Azelf). And if you thought Transforming into an offensive Pokemon wasn't ideal, remember that Transforming into a staller just gets you 5PP in each move. Granted, you get more HP than Skarmory and friends when Transforming, but you have about 300 less than Blissey.

Doesn't seem like an end-all move to me.

I must say Aura Sphere/Shadow Ball/Nasty Plot/Taunt looks like the most scary set by far, which is the closest argument to conviction for me. A lot of you seem rather lopsided - either Mew is not uber "because it only has four moves", or it is because "it can do ANYTHING!!!". Both of you need to remember that when you see Mew, it could theoretically have about anything, but when you're using it or once it is fighting, it has only one set. It cannot change mid-match.

The "outclassing" argument seems weak though. Mew's ability to learn about anything alone is something that makes it scarier than something like Azelf, where you know it's going to Nasty Plot, or Garchomp, where you know it's going to Earthquake or Swords Dance.

Overall I'm more leaning towards broken now, mostly because of Taunt, Baton Pass and Aura Sphere being :amazing: moves.
 
I still think Mew suffers from not having that defining stat. with base 100 in each stat it is getting outsped like you said by azelfs, garchomps, gengars ect. And again once you figure out what mew is doing you can counter it. Mew could take out blissey, but then again so can a lot of special attackers (Taunt Nasty Plot Infernape comes to mind). Mew is a good pokemon but it still needs testing otherwise we won't know how good it actually is in ou.
 
We are each month talking about one Uber, so we could try it in OU. It would be easier the next:
- We let all +600 Total Base Stats in Ubers. (exceptions: Slaking and Regigigas).
- The other Ubers would be in a test period in OU. (exceptions: Lati@s can't use Soul Dew, because with SD, they would have +600).
- With this metagame, we could see the usage of this new OU stuff, and if we saw that someone of them are too broken, they would be sent to Ubers again.

I don't know why you don't try this. This could finish all this threads where we try to send something to OU.
 
Random interesting point about transform mew. If you scarf it, you can still pick a new move after transforming. Albeit then you're locked.
 
Trust, sorry, but that's a terrible idea. Not all 600s are created equal. Are you really trying to say that Magmortar and Latias are equal? That's ignoring the fact that stats themselves aren't everything.
 
Chris, I know that, but if we don't do this, we will see this kind of posts every week, so the main answer is testing all at the same time, and then, they will see how broken they could be, and that Gengar or Salamence aren't so unpredectible when Mew or Latios around...
 
IMO Ice Beam > Shadow Ball as far as I'm concerned (on the Plotter). Beam wrecks both Garchomp and Salamence and does more damage to Gyarados/Spiritomb and the like, whereas the Pokemon Mew usually hits SE with Shadow Ball are not exactly very threatening to Mew (Cress? Taunt it. Azelf? Won't switch into you. Other Mews? Maybe. Dusknoir? Shadow Punch is a 3HKO and Sneak is even worse. Gengar? Switch out lol)
 
Chris is me said:
Trust, sorry, but that's a terrible idea. Not all 600s are created equal. Are you really trying to say that Magmortar and Latias are equal? That's ignoring the fact that stats themselves aren't everything.
Click to expand...

Magmortar base stats: 75 HP / 95 Atk / 67 Def / 125 SpAtk / 95 SpDef / 83 Speed

TOTAL: 540

Latias base stats: 80 HP / 80 Atk / 90 Def / 110 SpAtk / 130 SpDef / 110 Speed

TOTAL: 600

There's a 60 points difference, I don't know why you decided to compare these two.
 
Jibaku said:
IMO Ice Beam > Shadow Ball as far as I'm concerned (on the Plotter). Beam wrecks both Garchomp and Salamence and does more damage to Gyarados/Spiritomb and the like, whereas the Pokemon Mew usually hits SE with Shadow Ball are not exactly very threatening to Mew (Cress? Taunt it. Azelf? Won't switch into you. Other Mews? Maybe. Dusknoir? Shadow Punch is a 3HKO and Sneak is even worse. Gengar? Switch out lol)
Click to expand...

I thought the idea was that Fighting and Ghost hit everything neutral...

Okay, replace Magmortar with... Shaymin.
 
I thought the idea was that Fighting and Ghost hit everything neutral...
Click to expand...
Yeah, but neutrality isn't eveything. Although Aura Sphere + Beam is resisted by Tenta and Slowbro, they can't do much back to Mew and Mew can set up more plots.
 
That was the idea, Chris, but Jibaku is suggesting Ice Beam because it hit things that actually threaten you, such as Garchomp, Gyarados and Spiritomb harder than Shadow Ball or Aura Sphere. And most things you would use Shadow Ball against either outspeed and OHKO you, or are easily Taunted and beaten by Ice Beam anyways.
 
None of these arguments seem persuasive to me because they all look like "nah Mew totally sucks I bet it does" or "no way Mew is sooooo broken!" at their core.

Testing Arceus, for example, is (in my mind) not necessary because it has a base stat total 40 points higher than anything else, and Multitype means it's impossible for a team to have a counter for all Arceuses. Mewtwo is only outsped by a couple of things (Ninjask, Deoxys-E, Electrode... and is that all?) and has over 400 Special Attack in addition to Taunt and Calm Mind, so its brokenness presents itself in a rather obvious form. Soul Dew Latis have an effective base stat total of somewhere over 700, which is way beyond what anything else (save Arceus) has, and so their brokenness is obvious. Rain Dance and Sunny Day have at least the same usefulness as Sandstorm and Hail do, and Groudon and Kyogre have better stats than Tyranitar or Abomasnow, so their brokenness again comes in an obvious form. And so on for most of the ubers.

Mew, on the other hand, is ambiguous. It's extremely versatile, so knowing which counter to use is difficult, but versatility alone is not grounds for banning. Otherwise, Lucario, Tyranitar, Salamence, Dragonite, Garchomp, and a number of others need to go, which nobody seems to advocate. Mew is a bulky Baton Passer, but so is Celebi. And it goes on. Nobody can seem to produce a moveset for Mew that is clearly broken. At the same time, there are a number of movesets that are obviously dangerous (the Hypnosis and/or Taunt BP movesets, NP/Aura Sphere/Shadow Ball/x, Swords Dance sets, maybe choice sets, dot dot dot), which should set off alarm bells. To me, what this implies clearly is neither that it is broken nor that it is fair, but that it needs to be tested. It is really too difficult to determine otherwise, because Mew's brokenness hinges primarily on its ability to do a large number of things well rather than doing any specific thing exceedingly well. Mew is similar enough to Deoxys-S (danger comes mostly from versatility rather than raw power) that it really is worth testing it, but different enough that it would be dumb to make any conclusions before testing.

So, in short, Mew's status is clearly ambiguous. ;)
 
celebi has common weaknesses like ice, fire, bug to name 2, mew doesnt have those bar bug (but thats still only x2 compaered to celebi x4
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top