Team that gave me an 8/10 win streak on Shoddy

ProtomanV3

The Team -
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CHANGES MADE IN BOLD BLUE

Now for the team...

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Phat Fish (Swampert) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 240 HP/216 Def/52 SAtk
Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
- Stealth Rock


A solid lead. Earthquake for coverage, Ice Beam for dragons, Hydro Pump for STAB, stealth rock for obvious reasons.
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The Phat (Salamence) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 224 HP/12 Atk/196 Def/76 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Roost
- Earthquake

BulkyMence, the newest addition to replace Dragonite. Dragon Claw for STAB, Roost to heal up any damage and earthquake for coverage.
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Jirachi.jpg

Phat Dick (Jirachi) @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 240 HP/76 Def/136 Spd/54 SAtk
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Wish
- Reflect
- U-turn
- Hidden Power [Ice]

The one & only who replaced Steelix. He covers up Salamences weakness' very well. Wish to support the team, Hidden power Ice to make those dragons who switch in to Jirachi think twice, Reflect to support the team, and U-Turn to get the hell outta there once i'm done wishing.
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Phat Star (Starmie) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 160 HP/216 Spd/132 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- ThunderBolt
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Surf

Changed it from a Scarf Starmie to a Rapid Spinner to get rid of ToxicSpikes/Spikes/Stealth Rocks(stealth rock hurts dragonite). Thunderbolt over Ice Beam to take care of Gyarados since Deoxys can take care of Garchomp and other dragons/flying types.

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Phatty (Deoxys-e) @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 160 Atk/96 Spd/252 SAtk
Hasty nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Psychic
- Superpower
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt

The fastest pokemon evar.Has never been outsped unless by a priority move. Psychic for STAB, superpower to hit those Tyranitars, weaviles other pokemon with fighting weakness', Ice beam for Salamence,Garchomp etc, and Thunderbolt for Gyarados and such.
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Sell-A-Bee (Celebi) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP/220 Def/36 Spd
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Leech Seed
- Recover
- Grass Knot

My Blissey replacement. Calm Mind + Leech Seed is a big piss off and sometimes forces a switch. Recover to keep Celebi up and running and Grass Knot for the occasional attack and helps me deal with Swampert.

I know my team still needs help since i have noticed that i'm relatively weak to RestTalkers such as Snorlax and i am also relatively weak to Swampert. I don't know what to switch/replace/take out to fix my problems so if you guys could help it would be much appreciated.
 
The way I see it, there's almost no point in having Shadow Ball on Deoxys-E. Psychic will take care of the Gengars, and you wouldn't want to fuck around with Spiritomb/Cresselia, who can use random assortment of status moves on it. It's better to go for Thunderbolt, which can helps with all the other flyers. You don't want a Deoxys walled by a Skarmory now.

Anyhoo, if we have Deoxys-E on the team, I don't comprehend the usage of a Scarf Starmie. Deoxys-E is already faster than it (well Modest Scarf ones), so there's really no point. You should rather use the good ol' Rapid Spinner, as those assortment of Spikes will fuck over the team.

Which also brings me to a funny Electivire weak, but we shouldn't worry about that.

You also already have a Wisher in Jirachi, so I really don't see Vaporeon working as well here. You already have Starmie+DeoxysE for Gyarados (which your Vap wasn't a counter to anyways), and you have Blissey/Starmie for Heatrans, so there's no problem here. If you honestly wanted another bulky water tank, I'd go for Swampert, just in case a Tyranitar starts fucking you up too badly, as it's like one dead Poke everytime it comes into Blissey, until that Blissey dies, which just opens up a special weak hole. Swampert can also Stealth Rock to prevent your Dragonite from a disappointment of Focus Sashers.
 
Thanks for the suggestions Aeroblacktly, Shadow Ball can help me deal with Dusknoir/Cresselia, cuz i don't know what other pokemon i have that could take on them. I will consider(and most probably will) switch Vaporeon for Swampert. If adding Swampert, i'm probably gonna make Swampert my lead so i can Stealth Rock first turn and whatnot but i'm not sure... still need some help on that bit.
 
protoman, you can always try another jiraichi set such as the CM version to at least out stall the dusknoirs before they get destroyed. you already have a wisher, so you won't be missing that so much. or you can try a CB dragonite. your lack of electric resists worry me a bit. maybe it'll be best to replace vappy with a ground type of some sort.
 
I have replaced Vaporeon with Swampert if you haven't seen yet. Thanks for the suggestion though.

EDIT: I have played a bit more and realized i don't really have a counter for Snorlax or Suicune... most RestTalkers screw me over... i don't exactly know how to fix this apart from putting Roar on Swampert, but what would i take out for it?
 
I would change Jirachi's EVs immediately. They're poorly spread as of now with the Speed being completely random as the HP EVs. Max Atk would atleast need an explaination, but without one I'm inclined to recommend a complete change. Because it's the standard set I advise the standard spread: 240 HP / 56 Atk / 76 Def / 136 Spe

Outspeeds Adamant non-Choice Scarf Heracross with them Speed EVs. If I was you I'd read the analysis for a better description: http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/jirachi

Blissey has a Calm nature (which I disagree with, personally), but to take advantage of that why not add Wish onto the set? I'd much rather use 2 Wish Pokemon rather than have Thunder Wave (that is doing absolutely nothing). Deoxys is the fastest Pokemon in the game (priority moves and Choice Scarf users excluded), and Dragonite sweeps with Dragon Dance (increasing the Speed stat) and the rest of the team are supporting the team (not looking to outspeed anyone). With that in mind Thunder Wave is pretty much dead-weight right now. I'd highly recommend Wish>Thunder Wave.

Hide Deoxys for late-game instead of revealing it from the get-go. Let Swampert lead to set up Stealth Rock in place.

Gyarados has the ability to sweep. I wouldn't rely on Deoxys alone to cover for Gyarados, Thunderbolt>Ice Beam on Starmie would fix that completely. (Do not replace Recover on Starmie, as it would put you in the exact same position as Deoxys).
 
Taylor said:
I would change Jirachi's EVs immediately. They're poorly spread as of now with the Speed being completely random as the HP EVs. Max Atk would atleast need an explaination, but without one I'm inclined to recommend a complete change. Because it's the standard set I advise the standard spread: 240 HP / 56 Atk / 76 Def / 136 Spe

Outspeeds Adamant non-Choice Scarf Heracross with them Speed EVs. If I was you I'd read the analysis for a better description: http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/jirachi

Blissey has a Calm nature (which I disagree with, personally), but to take advantage of that why not add Wish onto the set? I'd much rather use 2 Wish Pokemon rather than have Thunder Wave (that is doing absolutely nothing). Deoxys is the fastest Pokemon in the game (priority moves and Choice Scarf users excluded), and Dragonite sweeps with Dragon Dance (increasing the Speed stat) and the rest of the team are supporting the team (not looking to outspeed anyone). With that in mind Thunder Wave is pretty much dead-weight right now. I'd highly recommend Wish>Thunder Wave.

Hide Deoxys for late-game instead of revealing it from the get-go. Let Swampert lead to set up Stealth Rock in place.

Gyarados has the ability to sweep. I wouldn't rely on Deoxys alone to cover for Gyarados, Thunderbolt>Ice Beam on Starmie would fix that completely. (Do not replace Recover on Starmie, as it would put you in the exact same position as Deoxys).
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The Ev's for Jirachi are there so that he is slow so that he can use Wish then take a hit before U-turning out so the pokemon receiving the wish won't get hit. I still need some advice/suggestions on replacing Jirachi with Steelix or to fix his moveset or something. I'll make Swampert my lead and replace Thunder Wave with Wish on Blissey. Thanks. Could you read the paragraph at the bottom of my first post, and give me some suggestions on my issues? Thanks again!
 
Bump..
I think i'm gonna be replacing Dragonite for something else... He doesn't last very long before he dies and sometimes doesn't even kill anything.. Any suggestions for a replacement?
 
I see you have changed the team around since I last reviewed it. Steelix as only increased Heracross' ability to sweep you with it adding another weakness to the Fighting-type. I think you should once again switch to Jirachi in favour for more Wish support and a little more Tyranitar and Heracross coverage.

If you're so adamant with Steelix leading...which is pretty poor to say the least, because with Swampert you could fend off Hippowdon and Salamence leads before you would have to flee (which you will have to do with Steelix) stopping you from setting up Stealth Rock. Swampert was a much better lead and Steelix should be replaced for Jirachi. However, you can always add a the BulkyMence set that has been seing some play lately:


Dragon Dance
Roost
Dragon Claw / Dragon Rush
Earthquake
Item: Life Orb / Leftovers
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 224 HP / 12 Atk / 196 Def / 76 Spe

You can find more here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38444

There are other spreads and movesets you can use. You see with this you atleast have some more coverage for Heracross and Lucario, regardless on whether you chose to replace Steelix with Jirachi once again. Wish support and Roost will keep him alive until you find an opening to set up and sweep.

It's your choice, but by all means I would make a change soon and perhaps it would be more effective if you add both Jirachi and Salamence, instead of just one.
 
Taylor said:
I see you have changed the team around since I last reviewed it. Steelix as only increased Heracross' ability to sweep you with it adding another weakness to the Fighting-type. I think you should once again switch to Jirachi in favour for more Wish support and a little more Tyranitar and Heracross coverage.

If you're so adamant with Steelix leading...which is pretty poor to say the least, because with Swampert you could fend off Hippowdon and Salamence leads before you would have to flee (which you will have to do with Steelix) stopping you from setting up Stealth Rock. Swampert was a much better lead and Steelix should be replaced for Jirachi. However, you can always add a the BulkyMence set that has been seing some play lately:


Dragon Dance
Roost
Dragon Claw / Dragon Rush
Earthquake
Item: Life Orb / Leftovers
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 224 HP / 12 Atk / 196 Def / 76 Spe

You can find more here: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38444

There are other spreads and movesets you can use. You see with this you atleast have some more coverage for Heracross and Lucario, regardless on whether you chose to replace Steelix with Jirachi once again. Wish support and Roost will keep him alive until you find an opening to set up and sweep.

It's your choice, but by all means I would make a change soon and perhaps it would be more effective if you add both Jirachi and Salamence, instead of just one.
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Thank you, i made changes. I switched out Dragonite for BulkyMence and will continue to test for Jirachi's use but so far he hasn't been working out well.
 
I don't think Steelix is that useful at all anymore...why not use Jirachi over it which will pair up with Salamence well? Hell, you could even try Skarmory over Steelix to phaze and set up Spikes.
 
Alright, after doing much testing. Figures that Jirachi has a better place on my team than Steelix, all steelix really could do was block some attacks then he'd have to get the hell outta there. Thanks Taylor. Too bad now my team seems very unoriginal and very OU xD. Oh well, thanks for the help! keep them coming ;D
 
Well it's glad to see a successful rate every once in awhile. ^_~

And the team seems to be much better now with those fixes in place.
 
I still have a few concerns though..
1. I have problems with bulky normal type pokemon such as Snorlax,Blissey.. before i could just explode on them with Steelix but now i don't have much of a counter. Only Deoxys-E's Superpower, but that wont do much to a CurseLax. Could you help me think of a way to remedy this problem?

2. Would Body Slam be better on Jirachi than Zen Headbutt? I'm not sure but it still seems like Jirachi is not fully complete yet and needs some changes.

3. I'm lacking Ice attacks, Avalanche doesn't do enough damage to Garchomp, i'm thinking of changing Swampert into a Mixpert so he can get Ice Beam. I need a way to OHKO those dragons (i can do it with Salamence if he's already set up but if not i need help)
 
you could always try ice beam on bliss. personally i don't like toxic there as so ,many incomers either resist it or like it eg. lucario, heracross, machamp, metagross... etc. ice beam will also mean that you won't get walled by gengar. the mcgar usage has gone up lately too.

for jiraichi, definitely body slam over zen headbutt (perhaps both for flinch hax)? you don't need the psychic there. it only hits a few threats for super effective and you have deoxys ayways. body slam + zen headbutt jiraichi can also severly weaken those bulky normal types.

you could always take out mence for bandnite if you're really worried about those bulky normals. use a jolly version, max speed and atk with focus punch and outrage.

hope i helped.
 
Well, if you think your Heatran coverage is good enough, then the normal thing can easily be fixed by Celebi over Blissey. With Leech Seed, you'll force them to switch out, or recover faster, but you'll always heal a shitload of health due to their massive HP.

I'd probably also go with Hidden Power Ice on Jirachi. Your whole team is pretty fast as it is, the para wouldn't help that much, and ZH doesn't really seem to do much else. So this way, should Garchomp ever want a free switch in, it has to think twice, with you having Reflect+Ice move there (or Ice Punch if you really want to use just physical attacks).

And yes, Ice Beam is better on Swampert. If it chooses to SD, it's like a 3HKO (first hit being taken by Yache), and it'll easily OHKO with +4 as opposed to +2.
 
Aeroblacktyl: I didn't really understand the last sentence of your post.. what's a 3HKO and if what chooses to SD? What should i take out for Hidden Power Ice on Jirachi? And if i go with Hidden Power over Ice Punch i should put the Atk EV's it currently has onto Special Atk, right?

Animenagai: I liked toxic on Blissey because it helps me in many situations and wins me most stall wars. I don't think i am going to take out Mence because when i set him up he works like a charm for me. Not sure about BandNite since he's not very bulky to begin with and can be walled and force me to switch when a steel pokemon comes into play.
 
.........clearly HPIce over the ZH/BS question.................

And Avalanche is a 3HKO if Garchomp isn't attacking it. The first hit is taken care of by Yache, the next hit will come close but not quite kill the Garchomp, and by then, it can pull off 2 Swords Dance, which equals to +4.
 
Oh, i see. Alright then, thanks XD
Umm, if i decided to put Celebi over Blissey what kind of a moveset should i use? Special Defense orientated? Since i won't have much pokemon to take special hits if Blissey goes.
 
ProtomanV3 said:
Aeroblacktyl: I didn't really understand the last sentence of your post.. what's a 3HKO and if what chooses to SD? What should i take out for Hidden Power Ice on Jirachi? And if i go with Hidden Power over Ice Punch i should put the Atk EV's it currently has onto Special Atk, right?

Animenagai: I liked toxic on Blissey because it helps me in many situations and wins me most stall wars. I don't think i am going to take out Mence because when i set him up he works like a charm for me. Not sure about BandNite since he's not very bulky to begin with and can be walled and force me to switch when a steel pokemon comes into play.
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that's not true at all. nite is bulkier than garchomp. i currently use:

dragonite @ choice band
jolly nature
252 atk, 4 HP, 252 speed
-outrage
-earthquake
-fire punch
-focus punch

require good prediction but it's so good. 2HKO's a million threats.
 
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