Wi-Fi Team: Anti-Matter [50 W - 4 L - 1 T]

broken

Hey Smogon, this is my first RMT here. In celebration of my 50th win with this team, I decided to unveil it to the public. I've used this team on Wi-Fi for a long time. It's record is 50-4-1, and since I've been to Smogon it's been 5-1-0 with the only loss being to a ridiculous amount of paralysis hax, defense drops, and critical hits. Recently, however, the team hasn't done too well. I got 3 out of the four losses in just the last 12 matches, so I need to get back on track. But I suck at introductions so I'll just get on with the team.

EVs are as if I had all 30-31 IVs. EVs vary on my actual cart.

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Metagross @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Atk / 124 SpD
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SpA)
- Stealth Rock
- Meteor Mash
- Thunderpunch
- Pursuit

This is a really awesome lead. Metagross is one of the bulkiest Pursuit users, which this team really needs. Gengar can REALLY screw up my team, so Metagross is here to stop it. The EVs give it 247 SpD, so Shadow Ball from a LO Gengar does 44.51% - 52.75%, guaranteeing me survival every time. The Special Defense EVs also help me stand up to Deoxys-S. Metagross shuts it down and catches it on the run with Pursuit. Stealth Rock is simply because it is the best member on the team to do it. Thunderpunch is for Gyarados leads, and Meteor Mash is for brute force. So far I've had a lot of success with this lead, I really hope some of you rating this team give it a try.

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Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe
Bold nature (+Def, -SpD)
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Leech Seed
- Recover

Celebi is the one of the bulkiest Pokémon in OU. Leech Seed helps spread health around my team and allows me to stall out threats should I get in a poor situation. One example was against an Electivire. I used Leech Seed, switched to Starmie, and got frozen on the Ice Punch. So I had to switch around a bit more, until I could bring Starmie back in to finish off the weakened Electivire. Leech Seed also let's Metagross get health back pretty quickly, should I be in a bind. Hidden Power [Ice] helps out a lot with Garchomp. Celebi is definitely the most important Pokémon on this team in terms of what the outcome is. If I want to win, usually Celebi will be there for me almost the whole time.

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Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 56 SpA / 200 SpD
Modest nature (+SpA, -Atk)
- Lava Plume
- Earth Power
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Yea, Heatran is too ugly to get a spot in the first image. I blame Ken Sugimuri. But what it lacks in looks it makes up with this uncanny ability to save my ass. It's the only real safe Fire switch-in on my team, and I really need it considering half my team can't take burn. At first I was using a Choice Scarfer, but after seeing how much I was just switching Heatran into Toxic and Will-o-Wisp, I decided to go the whole nine yards and make it a ReSTalker. It's done great so far, and is the bulkiest team member on the Special side of the spectrum. Seriously, ReSTalk Tran kicks ass.

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Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 160 HP / 132 SpA / 216 Spe
Timid nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Surf
- Ice Beam

Starmie is the third and final part of the CeleTranWater combination, and also my Rapid Spinner. With Stealth Rock, Celebi, and Metagross I have plenty of Gyarados coverage, so I went with Ice Beam to help me out against the Dragons. Starmie and Dragonite also form a great pair in stopping Infernape. Can't really see myself building a solid OU team without Starmie. It's just way too damn useful. :)

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Dragonite @ Leftovers / Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 HP / 32 Atk / 32 SpD / 192 Spe
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SpA)
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Dragon Claw
- Waterfall

My play on Dragonite: the BulkyNite. With Max HP and 32 Defense EVs, I always live a Hidden Power from Modest Choice Scarf Gengar. Assuming they switch in on my Dragon Dance, I can OHKO them right after living their Hidden Power. Dragon Claw and Waterfall have tremendous coverage, hitting everything for neutral bar Shedinja and Empoleon. I used to run just a standard DD Nite here, but this has been so much better. With Roost and the bulky EV Spread, I can get off my Dragon Dances and really put my opponent in a bad place. Right now I outrun Jolly Tyranitar, and after a Dragon Dance I outrun base 115 Pokémon.

One complaint I have is the damage I'm doing. I'd like to find a good balance between Defense and Attack EVs. Some help would be appreciated. Or should I just slap LO on it?

Currently testing out a new EV Spread. Thoughts?

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Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SpA)
- Sword Dance
- Close Combat
- Extreme Speed
- Crunch / Stone Edge

Definitely one of the most feared Pokémon in the game. I run Crunch instead of Bullet Punch because I really need to hit Cresselia hard, but since Zapdos can be trouble I've been considering Stone Edge a lot recently. But so far Crunch has been extremely reliable and I think I'll be sticking with that. Lucario is my late game sweeper and does a damn good job at it. Seriously, clean up does not describe Lucario enough. Most of the time, I'll bring it out early and try and draw out their Gliscor. The sooner I take care of it, the better.


As for threats, I can counter most Pokémon, and for ones I don't have a direct counter for I have to work around. For Heracross, I have to switch around with Heatran, Dragonite, and Celebi. However I'm always looking for positive feedback. The biggest issue is Dragonite. I really love the concept, but I want to maximize its potential. I don't want a poor EV Spread to hamper it's abilities.

Thanks for reading Smogon!
 
imperfectluck said:
Considering only Dragonite has to worry about SR and nobody on your team's truly bothered by Toxic Spikes, I'd recommend Thunderbolt to help your team cover Gyarados which could be quite troubling otherwise whenever it's not being used as a lead. (I'm assuming that Metagross will probably have its hands full with other things it needs to counter, and GK Celebi tends to lose to DD Ice Fang versions.)

Can't help you with Dragonite, sorry, I've never been one to use the DD Roost set myself.
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I definitely think I'll be keeping Rapid Spin. Starmie and Celebi really hate Toxic Spikes, even with Natural Cure. Celebi can't do much of anything if it is badly poisoned, other than switch in once and switch out. Celebi and Metagross do a damn good job against Gyarados from my experience. DD LO versions are not seen a lot on Wi-Fi, and even those can be predicted around and finished off with Lucario.

However, if it becomes an issue, I'll definitely slap LO on. ;)
 
wow, you mentioned me in your intro paragraph. I feel honored. But enough of that, time for positive feedback

-stealth rock doesnt feel right on a offensive monster like metagross, but you're right when you say he's the best one on the team to do it. you might want to consider swapping it out for bullet punch, earthquake, or explosion for more offensive power. But its fine the way it is

-You're dragonite looks good, but why the 100 def evs? a poke with dragon dance should either be adamant nature or have some attack evs present to make the most of dragon dance. Also, why waterfall? it was certainly effective in our battle, but its not the best move for type coverage. the only reason i can think of to use it on a set like this is for the 20% flinch rate. Dragon claw hits everything neutral except steels and shedinja, so fire punch, earthquake, or brick break would be better suited moves in that spot, unless you are aiming for flinch, where waterfall is better suited.
As for the life orb question, roost should be enough for healing purposes, and since yours is jolly and 0 att evs it might be necessary if you cannot dragon dance up enough for the KO. You might want to run a few calculations first to see if it makes a difference though.

-It seems kinda pointless to have rapid spin on this team. Toxic spikes only effects two pokes on the team, and they both have recover and natural cure to compensate. And stealth rock is only damaging to dragonite, who is bulky and has roost. Instead, you can try thunderbolt like imperfectduck suggested, or you could try reflect or thunder wave to prevent weavile from switching into starmie and crippling it.

-Standard lucario, nothing to say here either. You should probably stick with crunch to deal with cresselia and dusknoir, as well as opposing celebi.

As for counters to watch out for, you're completely right when you say that fire is your biggest weakness. A choice scarf heatran with fire blast, earth power, Hp ice, and explosion can cause alot of trouble. Same goes for Choice specs salamence unless you catch it off guard with HP ice on celebi. If you get rid of crunch on lucario, then dusknoir can walk all over your team. Metagross won't like will-o-wisp, and heatran as your special tank won't enjoy pain split.

Regardless, its a very effective team, as your record shows.
 
1. Stealth Rock is obviously staying since it is completely necessary for any team with Lucario. Just because something doesn't seem right doesn't mean it shouldn't be used. Stelath Rock "doesn't seem right" on Aerodactyl, but it's amazingly effective. The same goes for Metagross.

2. Dude, water is one of the best attacking types in the game, Waterfall is great. Also, I don't need to run calculations to see that LO will make my attacks 1.3x more powerful lol.

3. Reflect... is not a bad idea. I think I'll try that out. However, Toxic Spikes really is a lot more dangerous than you think. Celebi needs to be able to stick around, as you saw in our battle. Recover doesn't compensate when the damage doubles each time.

Thanks for the rate.

I'm trying out a new EV Spread. Thoughts anyone?
 
broken said:
2. Dude, water is one of the best attacking types in the game, Waterfall is great. Also, I don't need to run calculations to see that LO will make my attacks 1.3x more powerful lol.
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when i said to test with calculations, i meant to see if life orb would turn a 3HKO into a 2HKO against the counters that usually come in against dragonite, whatever they may be. And while waterfall is a great attack, i cannot see any reason to use it over earthquake unless you face rhyperior on a constant basis. Unless you use it for the flinch rate, then earthquake is better against the pokes that you would not use dragon claw on, unless skarmory is your biggest counter
 
snorlax said:
when i said to test with calculations, i meant to see if life orb would turn a 3HKO into a 2HKO against the counters that usually come in against dragonite, whatever they may be. And while waterfall is a great attack, i cannot see any reason to use it over earthquake unless you face rhyperior on a constant basis. Unless you use it for the flinch rate, then earthquake is better against the pokes that you would not use dragon claw on, unless skarmory is your biggest counter
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Well let's see what Steels I would face. Lucario is set up bait for me, Forretress takes neutral from EQ anyways, Metagross would survive EQ and KO me, Heatran is hit for Waterfall, Bronzong and Skarmory aren't even touched without Waterfall. Fire Punch means Infernape hurts me, but with Waterfall I OHKO it. With Waterfall I can actually do something to Hippowdon, Gliscor, and Donphan, who are much more likely to switch into Dragonite in the first place.

If I wanted to use Earthquake, I would use Salamence. I've honestly really been considering running a BulkyMence in Dragonite's spot. Once I hear some thoughts, I might change things up.
 
Im not an Expert Rater...but I do love doing various Dragonite builds. On your Dragonite, putting a few more EV's out of speed and adding those points to attack, can help your attack problem. Just play around with the spread until you see what damage suits you best.

(If you're wondering why put points out of speed, it's because, Dragonite wont really be outspeeding speedy pokemon, such as, Garchomp, Salamence, Gengar, Alakazam, and Yanmega.)

I hope, I helped somewhat...
 
TyphoonJake said:
Im not an Expert Rater...but I do love doing various Dragonite builds. On your Dragonite, putting a few more EV's out of speed and adding those points to attack, can help your attack problem. Just play around with the spread until you see what damage suits you best.

(If you're wondering why put points out of speed, it's because, Dragonite wont really be outspeeding speedy pokemon, such as, Garchomp, Salamence, Gengar, Alakazam, and Yanmega.)

I hope, I helped somewhat...
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Right now I outspeed Jolly Tyranitar. Whats more is after a Dragon Dance, I outrun all base 115 Pokémon. :)
 
broken said:
Right now I outspeed Jolly Tyranitar. Whats more is after a Dragon Dance, I outrun all base 115 Pokémon. :)
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Impressive, well just keep playing around with the build, you'll find one that suits you. :P (Currently using a modified Support Dragonite Set :P)
 
We don't need to know about wether you win or lose, and we definitely don't need to be told twice that you won and then loss, and not in a triple post either.

Anyway its a pretty good team build. Keep it up. Also, Lucario could benefit from Focus Sash more than LO but if you havn't had that problem, this team is perfectly fine.
 
First of all, I suggest you switch out Starmie for Swampert so you can wall Zapdos, since Zapdos seems like a major pain for this team. On Swampert I suggest you run the standard physcial set found on the Smogon Analysis. Swampert with Stone Edge plus Celebi handle Gyarados with ease. You also maintain the CeleTranWater combination which seems necessary in your team. Now since you have Swampert, I suggest you change Heatran back to the Choice Scarf set so you can handle Infernape better and have a decent revenge killer as well.

Finally we now go to BulkyNite. BulkyNite is outclassed by FatMence on the Smogon Analysis essentially, so I recommend you replace BulkyNite for FatMence now. With FatMence you can handle SDLuke and Heracross with ease, especially needed since ScarfCross seems to demolish your team.
 
I really don't see any Zapdos problems with this team, RestTalk Heatran is meant for it. This team is very standard, I do see one problem though, which is Mamoswine. This can be fixed by a Bronzong over Metagross easly, 252 HP / 128 Atk / 128 SpDef @ Sassy should be able to handle Mamoswine and Gengar, Weavile too. The only time I used Dragonite, I had success with it, but I haven't use it that much, I don't know if it works in the current Metagame. Personally, I used 108 Hp / 252 Atk / 148 Spd @ Adamant, I forgot what it would outspeed, but I had success with it.

Not a complete rate, pretty standard stuff, just some suggestions.
 
About Metagross: Its a good lead in 9/10 scenerios, but does have some (thoeretical) count. The rare Mix-Ape lead will stop it in its tracks, seeing how with 200+ Spatk Evs, it can OHKO Metagross with Flamethrower. Also, Sahed DD Slamamence leads can destroy it, seeing how there is no way to OHKO it and its hardly worth putting Bullet Punch on Gross just for that. It can set up and OHKO on the next turn and potentially sweep a portion of your team (provided it has a Fire Move for Celebii and you don't send out Lucario instantly.) Also, take waterfall off a Drogonite and replace it with EQ, for better type coverage and more base power. Finally, Maybe you should sac 20 pionts off Hp and Spd and donate them to Atk. Otherwise, a great team.
 
Sikh Assassin said:
Finally we now go to BulkyNite. BulkyNite is outclassed by FatMence on the Smogon Analysis essentially, so I recommend you replace BulkyNite for FatMence now. With FatMence you can handle SDLuke and Heracross with ease, especially needed since ScarfCross seems to demolish your team.
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Yea, I've been considering testing out a Bulky Salamence in place of Dragonite, so I think I'll test that out a bit.
Venom said:
I really don't see any Zapdos problems with this team, RestTalk Heatran is meant for it. This team is very standard, I do see one problem though, which is Mamoswine. This can be fixed by a Bronzong over Metagross easly, 252 HP / 128 Atk / 128 SpDef @ Sassy should be able to handle Mamoswine and Gengar, Weavile too. The only time I used Dragonite, I had success with it, but I haven't use it that much, I don't know if it works in the current Metagame. Personally, I used 108 Hp / 252 Atk / 148 Spd @ Adamant, I forgot what it would outspeed, but I had success with it.

Not a complete rate, pretty standard stuff, just some suggestions.
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I used to run Bronzong, but the Pursuit kill on Gengar has been extremely important for this team. However, that looks like a cool Dragonite EV Spread, I think I'll try it out. Thanks.
Erladis said:
About Metagross: Its a good lead in 9/10 scenerios, but does have some (thoeretical) count. The rare Mix-Ape lead will stop it in its tracks, seeing how with 200+ Spatk Evs, it can OHKO Metagross with Flamethrower. Also, Sahed DD Slamamence leads can destroy it, seeing how there is no way to OHKO it and its hardly worth putting Bullet Punch on Gross just for that. It can set up and OHKO on the next turn and potentially sweep a portion of your team (provided it has a Fire Move for Celebii and you don't send out Lucario instantly.) Also, take waterfall off a Drogonite and replace it with EQ, for better type coverage and more base power. Finally, Maybe you should sac 20 pionts off Hp and Spd and donate them to Atk. Otherwise, a great team.
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Considering I don't have Ice Punch, I wouldn't stay in on a Salamence lead to begin with. Obviously there are things that beat my lead... I have ways to switch. A lead doesn't have to be 100% perfect; as there is none.



And for those who don't like people posting their records, maybe you shouldn't even post. :)
 
Thanks Lee, I just ignored the last two. Sorry for reacting like that to the initial post, it wasn't constructive to the thread at all. Anyways, I've been trying out BulkyMence a bit and it has been pretty good. Intimidate is so effective whether it comes to causing switches for Dragon Dances or just being able to take hits so much better. I might just stick with that.
 
I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but you have an Agiligross weakness.

It can set up agility on Metagross, Celebi, maybe even Starmie or Dragonite(especially if it has Ice Punch) and finishes your team off.

The only quick changes that I can think of right now are slapping Earthquake on more pokemon or using a good water pokemon to stop it.

Just alerting you to the problem, you can probably fix it.
 
Hmm. If I run Bronzong > Metagross, I can EQ it and win one on one. I think Venom was spot on with his advice, I'll be testing that out. ^^
 
Run a tentacruel instead of starmie. Since you do have a toxic spikes problem, liquid ooze just eats it up, and you can have your own set of toxic spikes. Heres a good set--- (found on smogon) Anyway you still maintain the Cele-Tran-Water combo you like.

Tentacruel@Leftovers
Calm
204 HP / 96 SpA / 172 SpD / 36 Spe
Surf
Ice Beam
Rapid Spin/Knock Off/Hidden Power electric
Toxic Spikes/Giga Drain

Any of these 5 moves can be used together, except maybe HP Electric and Giga Drain.

That really could help, Of course you could runa swampert and not have the benefits of a spinner, but you get the pleasure of a hazer (should you run roar) and a good wall, only being weak to grass.
 
FooZee said:
Run a tentacruel instead of starmie. Since you do have a toxic spikes problem, liquid ooze just eats it up, and you can have your own set of toxic spikes. Heres a good set--- (found on smogon) Anyway you still maintain the Cele-Tran-Water combo you like.

Tentacruel@Leftovers
Calm
204 HP / 96 SpA / 172 SpD / 36 Spe
Surf
Ice Beam
Rapid Spin/Knock Off/Hidden Power electric
Toxic Spikes/Giga Drain

Any of these 5 moves can be used together, except maybe HP Electric and Giga Drain.

That really could help, Of course you could runa swampert and not have the benefits of a spinner, but you get the pleasure of a hazer (should you run roar) and a good wall, only being weak to grass.
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Nah, I need the coverage against Garchomp. Besides, I don't really need another MixApe counter.
 
Speed is what matters in Starmie, Tentacruel is ok, but all it's gonna do is absorb the toxic spikes, which Starmie can Rapid Spin and leave healed from it, plus Tentacruel will add another Ground weakness, which isn't what we want here.
 
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