CAP 4 CAP 4 - Attacking Moves Discussion

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You want to know what would be a really cool move on this Pokémon?

Weather Ball.

That's all I'm going to suggest, because it's one of the reasons why Roserade is such a cool Pokémon. During a Sandstorm, this guy can get that Special Rock attack it's always wanted!
 
So is my new move idea going to be ignored just because this thing has already a new ability?
 
I'm in definite agreement with every STAB move and slap move. I like all punch moves too.

On the special side, I think we should be a little careful on non-STAB moves since its SAtk is higher. Let's see (non-STAB) :

Energy Ball
Shadow Ball
Charge Beam (debatable due to effect)
Dark Pulse
Focus Blast (maybe we'd need to choose between this, Close Combat, and Focus Punch?)
Power Gem
Tri-Attack
Twister

Those seem good for the special side, no?
 
X-Act said:
Attack Name: OctoSludge
Type: Poison
Category: Special
Power Points: 15
Base Power: 12
Accuracy: 100
Battle Effect: Throws a lump of sludge 8 times. The move continues even if the foe is Knocked Out. (For example, if the foe is KOed with 3 of the 8 sludge throws, the remaining 5 are then dealt to the replacement Pokemon before either of the players do anything else. Or maybe 2 sludge throws would KO a Pokemon and another 5 would KO another Pokemon... then the eighth one is dealt to the second replacement Pokemon.)

What do you think? Base Power could be changed (right now it's 12x8 = 96), but do you agree to its concept?
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Supported. Awesome move idea. However, I would suggest changing the name, in case we want to use this move on a future CAP project, but the "Octo" part ends up restricting the move flavourwise. Still, I think it is about time we start making new moves. The whole CAP project is about experimenting with the metagame, and what better way to do that than new moves?
 
Absolutely Yes:
Baton Pass
Bullet Punch
Comet Punch
Dig
Dizzy Punch
Double Slap
Earthquake
Earth Power
Encore
Fake-Out
Fire Punch
Focus Punch
Force Palm
Gunk Shot
Gravity
Ice Punch
Mega Punch
Mud Bomb
Mud Shot
Mud Sport
Mud Slap
Poison Jab
Sucker Punch
Stealth Rock
Tailwind
Thunderpunch
Tickle
U-turn
Wish

Maybe:
Arm Thrust
Counter
Drain Punch
Flail
Focus Blast
Gyro Ball
Icy Wind
Karate Chop
Mach Punch
Needle Arm
Octozooka
Power Gem
Rapid Spin
Role Play
Seismic Toss
Shadow Punch
Spider-Web
Spikes
String Shot
Switcheroo
Taunt
Toxic Spikes
Tri-Attack

Absolutely No:
Charge Beam
Close Combat
Cross Chop
Energy Ball
Flamethrower
Ice Beam
Stone Edge

... I will update the no section later. I am pretty open to a lot of moves on this pokemon.
 
Remember in terms of offense this Pokemon is actually Special based, so while a fair amount of Physical attacks would fit based on its appearence it should at least still have some usable Special attacks.

Special moves are italicized.

Should Get:

Acid
Mud Bomb
Mud Shot
Mud Slap
Focus Blast
Hyper Beam
Arm Thrust
Beat Up
Brick Break
Cross Chop
Cross Poison
Crush Grip
Dizzy Punch
Dynamic Punch
Fake Out
Fling
Elemetal Punches
Gunk Shot
Poison Jab
Shadow Punch

Debatable.

Aura Sphere
Bug Buzz (It does look alot like a bug)
Dark Pulse
Grass Knot (does look pretty easy to trip something with 8 hands at your disposal)
Muddy Water
Shadow Ball
Wring Out
Bug Bite
Close Combat
Endeavour
Night Slash
Revenge
Rock Slide
Stone Edge
Sucker Punch
U-Turn
 
X-Act said:
So is my new move idea going to be ignored just because this thing has already a new ability?
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Not at all. Just expect to hear a lot of that when we go to vote on it. Really, we have people who don't like new abilities, why would they like new moves?
 
Yes:
-Elemental Punches
-Force Palm
-Shadow Punch
-Shadow Ball
-Wring Out
-Focus Punch
-Dark Pulse

Debatable:
-Energy Ball
-Cross Chop
-Mach/Bullet Punch
-Flamethrower


X-Act: Your idea's okay, although if we're creating a new move, I'd really rather it be a Tailwind clone so it would make a bit more sense flavor-wise. :x
 
Shit like ice beam, shadow ball, energy ball and thunderbolt give it an option to really damage salamence, gengar, swampert and gyarados. To me being able to destroy some of the most common threats in the game offensively, hardly fits the concept of pure support utility pokemon.
Its job is to accomodate the rest of the team so they can take down common threats not do it itself.
Earth/Poison and its resistances give it enough to work with to force switches and allow it to use its utility moves.
 
I'd rather it not get the basic Special attack moves ( FT, TB, IB ) so it has at least one reason to use its elemental punches other than novelty. It could go Physical for coverage, Special for more power ( lolz ).

I'd support X-Act's new move if it was renamed ( I know it's about the eight thing, but octo sounds so aquatic ) and if the effect was something more like "5-8" over a solid 8. It just doesn't fit with the rest the multi-hitting moves otherwise.
 
Considered he's an utility and you're obviously going to be running something like Earth Power / Utility move / Utility move / Something else but probably another utility move , He'll be hard-press to find any stuff for those moves. Giving him moves like Energy Ball, Shock Wave (I never said anything about TB), Shadow Ball, and possibly Flamethrower wouldn't be so bad.
 
Gothic Togekiss said:
Considered he's an utility and you're obviously going to be running something like Earth Power / Utility move / Utility move / Something else but probably another utility move , He'll be hard-press to find any stuff for those moves. Giving him moves like Energy Ball, Shock Wave (I never said anything about TB), Shadow Ball, and possibly Flamethrower wouldn't be so bad.
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Gyara, Mence, Swampert, etc., I think you know what I mean when I say I don't want this to remotely be a threat to most top-tier Pokémon. It's an utility Pokémon --- not a sweeper, not a bulky attacker/Pyroak v2.0, not a tank. An utility Pokémon. I'd rather simply avoid the moves altogether. It shouldn't have a movepool range for offense that can be compared to its utility movepool at any rate.
 
Yes:
Slaps
Force Palm
Wring Out
Metronome
Power Gem


Mayhaps:
Twister
Aura Sphere
Psychic/Psybeam
Weather Ball
Energy ball
Octazooka

Not to say Im against such things as element punches, but I didn't feel a need to place them here.

As for OctoSludge, the name is slightly off-putting to me, though I can't think of a better one. However, I like the concept. This move will be STAB'd, albeit poison, and thus an 12x8 BP slighly bothers me. I would prefer something with a bit more *gasp* randomness, being a multi-hit attack. Something like 6-10 at 12 BP per hit.
Were it not poison, I'd probably be inclined to go with 10 BP per hit.
 
X_Presumptuous said:
Gyara, Mence, Swampert, etc., I think you know what I mean when I say I don't want this to remotely be a threat to most top-tier Pokémon. It's an utility Pokémon --- not a sweeper, not a bulky attacker/Pyroak v2.0, not a tank. An utility Pokémon. I'd rather simply avoid the moves altogether.
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Yeah and I don't believe this "Oh it's a utility, it's suppose to have a lackluster choices of moves, offensive stat, etc..." mindset. Not all utility pokemon have shitty attack choice (I.E Nidoqueen). Some of the best utility have a decently sized offensive move options that go along with it's better attack stat to work with. Giving this creature attacks like Shock Wave, Engery Ball, or even Flamethrower isn't going to make it any less of a utility than it already is.

X_Presumptuous said:
It shouldn't have a movepool range for offense that can be compared to its utility movepool at any rate.
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Given how many utility moves you want to cramp into this guy that wouldn't be a problem. A few non-stab and slightly usable moves isn't going to hurt anyone.
 
Nidoqueen isn't even a utility pokemon its just a slightly defensive pokemon that because of its poison typing gets poison spikes, everything else like the screens is common.
 
latinoheat said:
Nidoqueen isn't even a utility Pokemon its just a slightly defensive Pokemon that because of its poison typing gets poison spikes, everything else like the screens is common.
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But people still be using her as an utility Pokemon so that counts in my book. This eight legged hand-feet Shiva/Dr. Oct bastard child doesn't have to restricted in terms of what special attacks it could gain. Can't we all come to some agreement with what Special attack this thing get's not named stabbed moves, Hidden Power, or Hyper Beam?
 
Exactly how many moves do we plan on giving this pokemon? These lists are huge.

I think on average pokemon get around 60-75 non-repeated moves, excluding stuff like Clefable, correct (please correct me if I'm wrong. X-Act, you made some statement on something like this once, right?)? I'd prefer less than 70 on this guy (like 65, 66, or 67 or whatever would be perfect).

We already want a lot of support moves on this guy, which will take up a lot of room. Then there are the shitty TMs that everything and their mother gets like Protect, Attract, Captivate, Rain Dance/Sunny Day/Sandstorm (I don't think Hail would fit, but I suppose we could give him it), etc. That takes up a lot of room as well. And this isn't a Normal-typed Fairy that's going to be able to do learn everything in the world.

We can't give this guy 8000 attacks and expect it to have a usable support movepool, it just won't work.
 
I think Shock Wave is perfectly fine. Energy Ball and Shadow Ball can work. Tri Attack sounds nice. I agree with X Presumptuous that it makes sense to keep IB/TB/FT off if we give it the Elemental Punches so that the Punches and his Physical side have some purpose.

@ EM:

These are just options. The final movepool comes later and will have to conform to the movepool specifics X-Act posted a while ago. The large amount of Support Moves we want it to have keep the amount of non-TM attack moves down.
 
I'd like to see it get: Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Flamethrower, Silverwind (or some other special bug move as an egg move), and random slap/punch moves. DLL has a decent special attack stat, may as well let him use it. Not like he will be using but maybe two attack moves in most sets anyways. DLL's special attack stat, even being the higher of his stats, is too low for him to sweep anyways, regardless of movepool. Though, by giving some options you enable a novelty specs set.
 
Let's keep the discussion centered on competitive moves. Some of the moves proposed are "flavor" moves. Those will be added in by movepool submitters later. This discussion is where we vet the moves that have a reasonable chance of being used in competitive play.

Read the Process Guide, if you don't know how we have changed the movepool process for this CAP.
 
Definitely

Earthquake
Earthpower
Sludge Bomb
Gunk Shot
Poison Jab
U-Turn
Mach Punch/Bullet Punch/Fake-Out
Brick Break
Shadow Ball

Debateable

Elemental Punches (only if there's an Emerald Move Tutor)
Double-Hit
Fissure (I think it has 50% accuracy in Gravity, btw)
Dark Pulse
Energy Ball
Charge Beam (Personally, I say no)
Weather Ball
Sucker Punch
Shadow Punch
Force Palm

Definitely Not

Close Combat
Focus Punch
Flamethrower/Thunderbolt/Ice Beam
Tri-Attack
Cross Chop

X-Act, I like you're move idea and 96 base power isn't too high. There are enough Steel Pokemon to ensure that it doesn't kill an entire team with one attack.
 
I'll let everyone else make big lists that get tl;dr'd, and just vote when necessary. I like the idea of charge beam. It makes sense with the gun hand idea and I definately prefer it over t-bolt. Though, if shock wave is in its pool, I don't think this needs to be. Either or.

I think some moves are shoe-ins (like slapping moves, fake out, stab, etc. ) so I don't feel the need to discuss them.

I also like the idea of weather ball. Makes sense, good idea, could see it used.
 
contiunuation.
energy ball, could be shot out of his hands
sucker punch

MAYBE
ice beam/flamethrowe/t- bolt only one or two
cross chop
close combat
aura sphere
the other punches
charge beam
fissure

NO
any other used move not listed
EDIT:weather ball is maybe but octo sludge (new name please)yes
 
Weather Ball seem like an odd choice for an offensive move but since Roserade can learn it and I can see the connection between them, I guess it could have the ability to learn it. Charge Beam is another nice alternative electric move that it could use thought I'm more inclined towards Shock Wave myself. I'm really, really, REALLY liking it to learn Shock Wave, Energy Ball, and Shadow Ball and willing to accept that people don't want it to learn TB/IB/FT.
 
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