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CAP 4 CAP 4 - Attacking Moves Discussion
- Thread starter Sunday
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Yeah, tennis, your right.
It should get Poison Reel and Sucker punch!
LOLMudkipz threw in CBedLolSpider (DLL @ Choice band)
Somebody threw in Deoxys-e.
CBedLOLspider used Sucker punch!
Deoxys-e lost 100% of its health. Deoxys-e fainted.
LOLMudkipz threw in CBedLOLSpider
Somebody threw in Yachechomp.
CbedLolspider used Poison Reel!
It's a Critical hit!
Garchomp lost 100% of its health.
Garchomp fainted.
Somebody threw in Deoxys-e.
CBedLOLspider used Sucker punch!
Deoxys-e lost 100% of its health. Deoxys-e fainted.
LOLMudkipz threw in CBedLOLSpider
Somebody threw in Yachechomp.
CbedLolspider used Poison Reel!
It's a Critical hit!
Garchomp lost 100% of its health.
Garchomp fainted.
I Guess We shouldn't give a new move since It already have a new Ability.
Yeah, Giving a new move along with a new ability is pushing it.
But hey, There's nothing to lose. We can just take out the moves if it seems to be Broken.
Hey everyone. I've been watching the Create a Pokemon thread for a while, almost since the beginning on the creation of this poke (I went back and review the other 3 projects). I'm a long time player of pokemon, and I've been battling online since D/P came out
WAY too strong. First off, the longest multi-hit move is only 5 hits, and the highest guarantee you can have is 3 hits with triple kick. Because it is a lot of weak hits, VERY little is wasted while trying to break through a sub, where as with a normal multi hit move, you rely on the first hit (or in the case of triple kick, the first two hits) to break the sub, and the last one to actually deal damage.
Next off, you can't hit the replacement with a multi hit move. The replacement doesn't come in until the end of the turn, after lefties/weather effects. An attack that can pull in a replacement immediately is just scary, especially in a double battle where they can be hit by his slower partner. It also lets you chip off a little extra for weather damage (though it also allows lefties recovery).
Also, let's look at power and accuracy. 8 * 12 = 96. So you're basically saying you have a flamethrower/ice beam/thunderbolt power attack that breaks subs and hits the poke behind it with virtually no power loss.
The three most powerful I can think of are bone rush, bonemerang, and triple kick. Bone rush is 2-5 (3/8, 3/8, 1/8, 1/8) 25 BP. That will, on average, hit 3 times for a base 75 power, with 80% accuracy. Bonemerang hits twice for 50 BP, 90% accuracy. Triple kick hits three times with 10, 20, and 40 BP for a total of 70.
Keep in mind that bonemerang and Bone Rush are signature moves for an attack oriented pokemon, there's no reason for a support pokemon to have a signature move comparable in power to them.
A more balanced version would be:
Attack Name: OctoSludge
Type: Poison
Category: Special
Power Points: 10
Base Power: 12
Accuracy: 85
This attack hits 4-8 times (25% chance each 4-6 hits, 12.5% chance each 7 or 8 hits).
This makes it more powerful than most multi hit moves, hitting an average of 5-6 times, a little less powerful than bonemerang/bone rush,but with less base power wasted after breaking a sub.
If you're really set on not wasting the remaining hits, maybe you can have it hit the target's partner in a double battle, but immediately pulling in and hitting replacements is just too scary.
WAY too strong. First off, the longest multi-hit move is only 5 hits, and the highest guarantee you can have is 3 hits with triple kick. Because it is a lot of weak hits, VERY little is wasted while trying to break through a sub, where as with a normal multi hit move, you rely on the first hit (or in the case of triple kick, the first two hits) to break the sub, and the last one to actually deal damage.
Next off, you can't hit the replacement with a multi hit move. The replacement doesn't come in until the end of the turn, after lefties/weather effects. An attack that can pull in a replacement immediately is just scary, especially in a double battle where they can be hit by his slower partner. It also lets you chip off a little extra for weather damage (though it also allows lefties recovery).
Also, let's look at power and accuracy. 8 * 12 = 96. So you're basically saying you have a flamethrower/ice beam/thunderbolt power attack that breaks subs and hits the poke behind it with virtually no power loss.
The three most powerful I can think of are bone rush, bonemerang, and triple kick. Bone rush is 2-5 (3/8, 3/8, 1/8, 1/8) 25 BP. That will, on average, hit 3 times for a base 75 power, with 80% accuracy. Bonemerang hits twice for 50 BP, 90% accuracy. Triple kick hits three times with 10, 20, and 40 BP for a total of 70.
Keep in mind that bonemerang and Bone Rush are signature moves for an attack oriented pokemon, there's no reason for a support pokemon to have a signature move comparable in power to them.
A more balanced version would be:
Attack Name: OctoSludge
Type: Poison
Category: Special
Power Points: 10
Base Power: 12
Accuracy: 85
This attack hits 4-8 times (25% chance each 4-6 hits, 12.5% chance each 7 or 8 hits).
This makes it more powerful than most multi hit moves, hitting an average of 5-6 times, a little less powerful than bonemerang/bone rush,but with less base power wasted after breaking a sub.
If you're really set on not wasting the remaining hits, maybe you can have it hit the target's partner in a double battle, but immediately pulling in and hitting replacements is just too scary.
I kind of like the idea of a Poison Priority move like above. I don't think it should rely on the opponent using an attacking move first (like Sucker Punch) but I do think it should have 80 base power (like ExtremeSpeed). Since Poison type sucks offensively, the 80 base power shouldn't be a huge deal.
Another idea is something like Trump Card, but that seems like way too much coding for a move that will most likely not be used.
OctoSludge is a good suggestion since it's very likely to be walled by a Steel type Pokemon. I think that it would have to have 100% accuracy though. Poison type sucks as is, why make this even harder?
Also, for those who don't want to be "extreme" with new moves, think about how our current metagame will change once new move tutors are introduced into Platinum. There's a high probability that things like Lucario will wind up getting Ice Punch and ThunderPunch. Seems broken already, doesn't it? So why restrict a CaP to be worse? If we didn't want this Pokemon to see some use there'd be no point in creating this. It's like creating a Pokemon only to have it be Farfetch'd who sees absolutely no use.
Another idea is something like Trump Card, but that seems like way too much coding for a move that will most likely not be used.
OctoSludge is a good suggestion since it's very likely to be walled by a Steel type Pokemon. I think that it would have to have 100% accuracy though. Poison type sucks as is, why make this even harder?
Also, for those who don't want to be "extreme" with new moves, think about how our current metagame will change once new move tutors are introduced into Platinum. There's a high probability that things like Lucario will wind up getting Ice Punch and ThunderPunch. Seems broken already, doesn't it? So why restrict a CaP to be worse? If we didn't want this Pokemon to see some use there'd be no point in creating this. It's like creating a Pokemon only to have it be Farfetch'd who sees absolutely no use.
I'd rather either have OctoSludge ( which I'd like renamed to Sludge Volley as I believe DK suggested ) or nothing. Priority moves, status attacks... it all just seems very forced. At least a multi-hit move offers some sort of support, priority is mainly used for sweeping. It's already pretty fast anyways.
If/when that happens, we can always go back and buff up our Pokémon later. No need to make them spectacularly broken for months in the meantime.
If/when that happens, we can always go back and buff up our Pokémon later. No need to make them spectacularly broken for months in the meantime.
^ While the logic may be weird to you, it probably has to do with Doug's post talking about he could program a move with a similar mechanics as what X-Act posted.
OctoSludge sounds too much like Octazooka, which is a Water attack despite the shooting of ink/sludge. May as well equip it with Octazooka and call it a day.
OctoSludge sounds too much like Octazooka, which is a Water attack despite the shooting of ink/sludge. May as well equip it with Octazooka and call it a day.
80 max damage?
eww, nobody would use it.
lets just stick with the moves that are already made.
eww, nobody would use it.
lets just stick with the moves that are already made.
Tennis: Like GT said, the logic may seem strange to you but I think it makes sense. One way we're making a move that goes with the grain of the concept, another goes against it. Does that clear up my thinking a bit?
Octazooka isn't Octillery-exclusive; the Horsea line gets it through breeding. Whoo, yay for useless Stadium 2 lectures that I actually remembered somehow. Nevertheless, who really wants more hax abuse in the metagame? Seems odd for flavour too, so I don't support the move.
Octazooka isn't Octillery-exclusive; the Horsea line gets it through breeding. Whoo, yay for useless Stadium 2 lectures that I actually remembered somehow. Nevertheless, who really wants more hax abuse in the metagame? Seems odd for flavour too, so I don't support the move.
Horse can be bred to learn Octazooka as well, but regardless of that you do have a point. It probably doesn't need Octazooka within it's movepool.
Horses can have Octazooka? I should tell the boys at Churchill Downs that...
On-topic, I'll say it again, what will it use all these "competitive flavor" moves for? Its like Power Whip and Ice Punch on Revenankh, nice to have, deals with some things, but everyone uses the standard 2 attack version. They get almost no use.
On-topic, I'll say it again, what will it use all these "competitive flavor" moves for? Its like Power Whip and Ice Punch on Revenankh, nice to have, deals with some things, but everyone uses the standard 2 attack version. They get almost no use.
So the fact that a move won't be used means that it shouldn't be an option? I fail to see the logic in that.
Your standard gimmicky sweeper set ? Hey...there's always at least one person who's willing to try to use a sweeper set on a Pokemon regardless of it's function.
Now in the case of this guy, probably some speical sweeper with three or four special attacks (not including Sludge Bomb but including Hidden Power) and Life Orb/Choice Spec. Also, even if that kind of set was proven to be no so gimmicky, 9/10 people would use it for it's main purpose: Utility.
Edit: Has anyone mention an Tailwind alternative move?
@Darth Meanie:
If it's not a TM then we really don't have room for it in the movepool. Read X-Act's movepool guide.
That's 7 moves aside from the TMs. So there isn't any room for extraneous competitively viable moves. That's the logic behind it.
Edit: @G_T
That's my point, it's a gimmick.
If it's not a TM then we really don't have room for it in the movepool. Read X-Act's movepool guide.
X-Act's Guide said:
X-Act's Guide said:
That's 7 moves aside from the TMs. So there isn't any room for extraneous competitively viable moves. That's the logic behind it.
Edit: @G_T
That's my point, it's a gimmick.
Agreeing with Tennis about what he just said/has been saying throughout the whole course of this thread: we really don't have much room for a lot of attacking moves that aren't already TMs. Everytime someone says X-Act, the X tricks me for a second into making me think they're referring to me. D:
GT: Someone suggested a Ground-type "opposite" of Tailwind that lowers the opposing team's speed. Forgot the name and the suggestee.
Hazmat: I don't think that move was created for flavour primarily. It has more six more BP than Sludge Bomb and can break subs. Maybe it seems tacked-on, that's subjective; I personally don't think so.
GT: Someone suggested a Ground-type "opposite" of Tailwind that lowers the opposing team's speed. Forgot the name and the suggestee.
Hazmat: I don't think that move was created for flavour primarily. It has more six more BP than Sludge Bomb and can break subs. Maybe it seems tacked-on, that's subjective; I personally don't think so.
I personally don't agree with giving it ANY new moves. It's just begging for people to scream "FANBOYS" at the top of their lungs/keyboards.
I think it was called "Thick Mud" and I think it works in terms of flavor.
Who the hell cares what other people think about us? Aren't there about 500 threads just laughing at people who bash smogon?
I think that whoever feels the need to laugh at us for creating a new move would already be laughing at us for creating three and a half entire Pokémon.
Considering that, in D/P, switching out a new pokémon is the last thing done in the turn, I don't this this move could really be implemented. Seems a good idea, though.
EDIT: Whatever, DJD said it's possible. So, all power to OctoSludge!
Toxic! :D
30% chance of PAR is okay, but what about huh 20% chance of PAR and 10% chance of Badly Poison? A mix of Body Slam and Poison Fang is appealing to me.
You are completely right! Lets drop all the standards we have now, and just start churning out random concepts by the bucket! I call making the Dark/Ghost with Wonderguard! To hell with what they think of us! I mean, it's not like we were making this competitive or anything on an elite forum! /sarcasm
Lets recap: This is a project for making competitively viable and non-broken pokemon. We try to limit the fanboyism and make these pokemon strictly on a competitive basis. What you just implied was that we're fanboy's anyway, so why care about what we make which is completely wrong.
Edit: To get back on topic, the question at hand is "Do we need a new move." The answer I think is a resounding no. We don't need it competitively, and this thing isn't looking like it's going to have a sparse movepool. So it's really not necessary.
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