The Smogon "Suspect Test" Ladder is in full effect!

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There is a reason they call them over used, because they are over used. That gives no reason for testing them out just because they're being used more than the others unless you're saying gengar is uber, which I doubt your implying.
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Like I said, I have put forth an argument why Garchomp's usage numbers implies that he *might* be uber in the PR threads I mentioned, I recommend you read those. Considering all of the staff's reasoning behind these moves are well stated in the Policy Review forum, if you refuse to read it then there is nothing I can do about it.

Your attitude seems of the "Garchomp is a metagame threat, deal with it" sort - and while it does have a point, I think that kind of attitude destroys the concept behind a metagame which is to create the most competitive multiplayer game possible. Read the PR thread "What do we want in a metagame" thread to see a sample of the responses and to see *why* we are testing them to begin with.
 
Tangerine said:
Like I said, I have put forth an argument why Garchomp's usage numbers implies that he *might* be uber in the PR threads I mentioned, I recommend you read those. Considering all of the staff's reasoning behind these moves are well stated in the Policy Review forum, if you refuse to read it then there is nothing I can do about it.

Your attitude seems of the "Garchomp is a metagame threat, deal with it" sort - and while it does have a point, I think that kind of attitude destroys the concept behind a metagame which is to create the most competitive multiplayer game possible. Read the PR thread "What do we want in a metagame" thread to see a sample of the responses and to see *why* we are testing them to begin with.
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I came here because my team interfered with the rules for shoddy battle in the smogon university server. I really have no idea on how to look for these things or what PR even means. I just thought that in this forum the evidence would be presented in the very beginning as reasons why garchomp and deoxys-e are being tested instead of just saying they’re being tested. I think it would have cost you less time to just tell me a good reason instead of making me search for it since I’m not the one that’s trying to test it out.

My attitude is you can say luvdisc is an uber and should be tested in the same way because both aren’t using reasons, really all your doing is saying it’s over used … which it’s supposed to be. I use Garchomp because I need a resistance against electric pokemon including thunderwave, I don’t want sand storm damage, and I want it to be fast without boosts. Garchomp is the only one who fits that description perfectly. Now without Garchomp I’m having a difficult time finding a better supporter who qualifies just as well.
 
I came here because my team interfered with the rules for shoddy battle in the smogon university server. I really have no idea on how to look for these things or what PR even means. I just thought that in this forum the evidence would be presented in the very beginning as reasons why garchomp and deoxys-e are being tested instead of just saying they’re being tested. I think it would have cost you less time to just tell me a good reason instead of making me search for it since I’m not the one that’s trying to test it out.
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Then don't play on the suspect test ladder

The OU ladder still works fine with garchomp and deoxys E, I'm not sure why you're claiming your teams are being interfered by it.

So what's the deal here?

Also

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43566
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1274966&postcount=22

I'll critique that because I honestly can't think of any reasons besides most people are unprepared for it and have no idea on how to counter one but think they do.
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Are you serious? Who do you think you are, the only person who plays with/plays against Garchomp? Sure, the masses don't know what they're doing but then it's not like we listen to them unless they are able to bring forth intelligent arguments. Smogon has people who know how to play, believe it or not!
 
Mystica said:
Oh stop crying and look here http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42182

Garchomp is being tested for obvious reasons, and its NOT just beacuse its "the most over used pokemon" There are many other reasons too. Stop being so goddamn ignorant.
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I'm not even going to stoop to your level. What page and whose comment? I'll critique that because I honestly can't think of any reasons besides most people are unprepared for it and have no idea on how to counter one but think they do.

Tangerine said:
Then don't play on the suspect test ladder

The OU ladder still works fine with garchomp and deoxys E, I'm not sure why you're claiming your teams are being interfered by it.

So what's the deal here?

Also

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43566
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1274966&postcount=22
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From what I heard it's being "tested" there. If in the end everyone decides it's uber then I won't be able to use it in any server, which is why I'm asking why it's being tested.
 
I just joined and had to post in this thread :).

I think it's a fantastic idea to ban Garchomp,i don't run one myself but they have been the bane of my battling life on D/P and i also think after a while seeing them all the time becomes so boring,the better hope of beating it is with ice oweing to the 4x type advantage (dragon's effective too but on a 2x damage dealt) but this again is a problem due to Chomp boy's speed,myself prefer to use Abomasnow or Kingdra to counter it (don't ask why i just do),i don't have one because i tend not to rely on only one poké to win (i'm not trying to be bigheaded i'm just being honest in a care free way so my apologies to anyone who finds me offensive).

So all in all banning it ain't a bad thing and it'll be nice to see it not in use as much.

On a side note it might be a good idea to put it in an "evo uber" tier (that's a suggestion though)
Anyways that's my 2 cents :)
Peace out.
 
I've been screwing around with new teams and playing some of my old teams as well and I have to say that I'm having way more fun playing pokemon now that Deoxys is out too. Garchomp was a pain and clearly the best OU pokemon until Deoxys was added, but Deoxys was totally frustrating. It more or less eliminated any attempt to use Speed as part of strategy, guaranteed that rocks got set up and was generally just LOL in OU. Even if after testing people vote to return it to OU, I hope we keep a separate ladder someplace that doesn't involve those two pogeys.

Also of note, I have seen a LOT more diversity in the last two days than I have in the last six months on the ladders. Lots of BL pokemon are seeing use and people seem to be inspired to be more creative with their sets. I hope the trend continues, regardless of what happens with the votes.
 
Black Flame said:
I'm not even going to stoop to your level. What page and whose comment? I'll critique that because I honestly can't think of any reasons besides most people are unprepared for it and have no idea on how to counter one but think they do.
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Who cares what you think. The fact is you havn't read around Policy Review or any threads for that matter why Garchomp is being tested. lol Snoop down to my level, I'm not the one being ignorant here pal!
 
Black Flame said:
I read the post, but the thing is even though this is just a test if votes without evidence caused a bannation of certain pokemon then that's just wrong. I came here to play competitively, but so far I have been dissapointed. I've seen people who use garchomp completely wrong and I've seen others who know what they're doing and sweep with them. Garchomp's moveset is very limited. It's dragon/ground/fire/rock and you always know which it's going to use unless your opponent predicts. Gengar beats it one on one unless it tries outrage or is choice banded then there are different counters for those. Don't just test out a game without one pokemon because it can perform many different functions because that's not fair. You only see the outside, a garchomp, and if many people use a garchomp, even if all of their uses vary, then it's centralized. It's just like SR, if it works best for you then use it. If you gave me evidence that proves garchomp should be tested then I won't complain but until then I'm just going to keep questioning.
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Pokemon are almost ALWAYS banned with just "votes without evidence", if nothing offered so far in this thread or the various threads about Garchomp fits your standards of "evidence". People keep talking here like a Pokemon has never been banned before! Ubers IS the banlist, and I haven't seen any slippery slope leading down to the banning of everything yet. As for your so-called counter, I severely doubt that Gengar can switch into Garchomp and KO it before it gets KOed, which is what a counter is, and I'll bet you're not taking the Swords Dance while you switch into account either.

And, frankly, I think people are sick of just debating back and forth endlessly about Garchomp. Heck, I wasn't even around for most of the 18-page "what should we do about Garchomp?" thread and I'm still already tired of the ENDLESS theorymongering and back-and-forth "uh-huh!", "nuh-uh!" squabbling. Part of the reason this Suspect Test Ladder is being run, I think, is because people sitting around arguing in every other thread whether Garchomp should be banned or not accomplishes nothing and proves nothing, and at least with this we can get hard data on stuff and try to do it at least semi-scientifically instead of just whining at each other for a while and then putting it up to a popularity vote.
 
Mystica said:
Who cares what you think. The fact is you havn't read around Policy Review or any threads for that matter why Garchomp is being tested. lol Snoop down to my level, I'm not the one being ignorant here pal!
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Yeah, I haven't. I don't even know what that is and you're being so kind as to show me the links and providing the information to me ... this is why I hate places that don't use MLA format and people like you. What important information did you provide this forum with that comment ... yeah you should start reading the rules here too.

Athrosu said:
Pokemon are almost ALWAYS banned with just "votes without evidence", if nothing offered so far in this thread or the various threads about Garchomp fits your standards of "evidence". People keep talking here like a Pokemon has never been banned before! Ubers IS the banlist, and I haven't seen any slippery slope leading down to the banning of everything yet. As for your so-called counter, I severely doubt that Gengar can switch into Garchomp and KO it before it gets KOed, which is what a counter is, and I'll bet you're not taking the Swords Dance while you switch into account either.

And, frankly, I think people are sick of just debating back and forth endlessly about Garchomp. Heck, I wasn't even around for most of the 18-page "what should we do about Garchomp?" thread and I'm still already tired of the ENDLESS theorymongering and back-and-forth "uh-huh!", "nuh-uh!" squabbling. Part of the reason this Suspect Test Ladder is being run, I think, is because people sitting around arguing in every other thread whether Garchomp should be banned or not accomplishes nothing and proves nothing, and at least with this we can get hard data on stuff and try to do it at least semi-scientifically instead of just whining at each other for a while and then putting it up to a popularity vote.
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Well I did say one on one and not a counter. Standard milotic survives an SD Outrage so it would be a counter. Skarmory and Forrtress do well against the choice sets or when you trick the opponent into an Outrage. Garchomp isn't really a counter to anything either, it only works well when you get it in safely (with no damage) like Deoxys-e. Hearing this I can see this site isn't what I expected it to be. Testing pokemon without evidence for testing ... I can see people dogmatically just voting against Garchomp and Deoxys-e.
 
Black Flame said:
Yeah, I haven't. I don't even know what that is and you're being so kind as to show me the links and providing the information to me ... this is why I hate places that don't use MLA format and people like you. What important information did you provide this forum with that comment ... yeah you should start reading the rules here too.
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I already gave you a link, And Tangerine gave you two as well actually, are you blind? Policy Review is a tab under Stark Mountian, it's a sub forum. MLA format? This isn't college, this is a Pokemon forum, and people like Jumpman16 makes things perfectly clear which you are refusing to acknowledge or look for. I'm done, it's better if you simply don’t respond and go read for yourself. There's no point for me or anyone else to repeat anything that has been talked about constantly.
 
Mystica said:
I already gave you a link, And Tangerine gave you two as well actually, are you blind? Policy Review is a tab under Stark Mountian, it's a sub forum. MLA format? This isn't college, this is a Pokemon forum, and people like Jumpman16 makes things perfectly clear which you are refusing to acknowledge or look for. I'm done, it's better if you simply don’t respond and go read for yourself. There's no point for me or anyone else to repeat anything that has been talked about constantly.
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If you don't want to repeat then don't comment in the first place. I didn't ask for a link, I just wanted either of you or anyone else to tell me why it's being tested not give me something to read.

There is a reason MLA format is used in college. It makes checking things easier and that would help here too.
 
Black Flame said:
Yeah, I haven't. I don't even know what that is and you're being so kind as to show me the links and providing the information to me ... this is why I hate places that don't use MLA format and people like you. What important information did you provide this forum with that comment ... yeah you should start reading the rules here too.
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Oh god, man... I don't even battle competitively and I know what are the reasons for this test. People who do it aren't doing it to **** up your garchomp team, they aren't doing it because someone pays them, nor as a job. You're coming here and saying something like

"Treat me like master, give me all the info and then I'll move my humble self and start arguing with you" while all the info is out there. You don't show any respect to your fellow pokemon players and you expect them to show you any respect? >.>

And no one will TELL you anything, because we can only WRITE. You will have to read anyway, things that have been written 2000 times in linked threads. The only difference is you would have to CLICK.
 
Black Flame said:
Well I did say one on one and not a counter. Standard milotic survives an SD Outrage so it would be a counter. Skarmory and Forrtress do well against the choice sets or when you trick the opponent into an Outrage. Garchomp isn't really a counter to anything either, it only works well when you get it in safely (with no damage) like Deoxys-e. Hearing this I can see this site isn't what I expected it to be. Testing pokemon without evidence for testing ... I can see people dogmatically just voting against Garchomp and Deoxys-e.
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Milotic has a chance of barely surviving an SD Outrage if it's at full HP, and it can't OHKO a Yache Garchomp anyway, so it inflicts significant damage and then dies from the second Outrage. That's why nothing counters SD Garchomp - there is no single Pokemon that can switch into one of its attacks and then kill it before it gets killed, you have to use two Pokemon to kill it and that's not a counter.

Now, what would you consider to be evidence? You apparently don't consider the pages and pages and PAGES of debate about Garchomp to be evidence, and you apparently don't consider testing the metagame with and without Garchomp and studying the changes to be evidence, so why don't you drop your lazy superiority complex and tell us what you're expecting us to show you already?
 
Black Flame said:
If you don't want to repeat then don't comment in the first place. I didn't ask for a link, I just wanted either of you or anyone else to tell me why it's being tested not give me something to read.

There is a reason MLA format is used in college. It makes checking things easier and that would help here too.
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So you want someone to tell you why he is being tested instead of reading? Sounds like laziness to me.

Anyway if Garchomp ends up being banned then you could always host your own damn server that allows Garchomp and anything else you wish to have in your metagame. Nobody forces you to play on the Smogon server.
 
I think people who feel it shouldn't be banned are the ones who are scared they'll start to lose because their favorite has been taken away,myself i can't stand chompy.
 
I so damned happy that I can be more creative with my teams, and that other people are doing the same. Garchomp, you will not be missed!
 
sonicmark said:
I think people who feel it shouldn't be banned are the ones who are scared they'll start to lose because their favorite has been taken away,myself i can't stand chompy.
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Yeah, that's not always the case. I'm not scared that Garchomp may potentially end up banned because it's my favourite Pokemon (though, funnily enough it is) and that it's an amazing one at that. To be honest, nearly everyone will miss what Garchomp can do for them, but that won't (or at least, shouldn't) have an influence on their final decision on what they believe is the right conclusion for Garchomp and its suitable tier.
 
On the matter of Garchomp being removed from OU play, that seems completely idiotic. Although Garchomp may be good, it's kind of hard to not hit him with Ice Beam before he can set up for a sweep, even with his 20% evasion increases in Sandstorm. If you don't try to stall him out (which WILL NEVER work), you can usually get him down with an appropriate counter.

Furthermore, removing him from OU would make him virtually useless. He'd probably be considered the worst Dragon-Type in the Uber Tier, and just about anything else besides maybe Ho-Oh if Stealth Rock is up could rip him a new one before he could even lift a finger.

Here's a reply to this same comment I left on another website, which provides further evidence of why Garchomp should not be removed:

Orignally from "UnknownSupreme" at FriendCodes.com:

100% agreement with you. Garchomp was really no different then the past Gen. of games when one Pokémon was particularly more powerful then the rest.

And besides, 100% becomes 80% accuracy, it's no different then when Fire Blast misses and that causes you to lose a couple of Pokémon. You have to remember, one of the key things in Pokémon is that it's really luck based, no matter how you don't like that, you have to remember that, it is, and always will be a hugely luck based game, when you win or lose because of a move missing do to non-perfect accuracy.

Personnaly I've never had to much trouble from L/O Garchomps, since a solid Physical wall stops it easily, such as Skarmory, Defense varients of Dusknoir w/ WoW. And even if it does happen to be a Chain Chomp and you lose Skarmory, I've lost skarmory and won easily before.

I don't consider Garchomp much more of a threat then, say, Infernape, both have powerful STABs, both can KO things with relative ease, Garchomp has less weaknesses, but Inefernape has better mixed capabilities, making it riskier to predict.

Because even if it has Focus Sash, hazards rid it of that, and if it has Yache Berry, that somewhat lessons it's offensive capabilities.

All in all, I just don't see how it's that much more powerful then other stuff to justify condemning it to exile in the Uber teir, which it'll do to send it there since when other Dragons aren't weak to Ice, a common move there, and are much more powerful.
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Im curious as to why people want to ban garchomp. I mean yea it can be pain to get around but its not that bad as opposed to say blissey who can take almost any hit thrown its way
 
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