The Smogon "Suspect Test" Ladder is in full effect!

[Kagster123]

Those "counters" have been mentioned many times. If Garchomp SD's on the switch to your skarmory, he'll 2hko if its a life orb variant(im not sure) while the best your Skarmory can do is whirlwind it, it only took it out of the battle, it's still going to be a threat and now he knows you carry Skarmory.

You can't rely on Dusknoir's 70% accuracy move, especially when there is sand veil around. And Dusknoir won't like eating a +2 outrage/earthquake AT ALL. Breloom has solid counters. Cresselia, bronzong, celebi, etc can switch in and set up reflect, celebi even resists his stab and can nail him with stab psychic. Breloom is nowhere near as powerful as garchomp, even when "passed an SD."

 

[Jenigmat]

Honestly, I miss Garchomp. I miss its ability to counter Lucario and other threats effectively. I miss Scarfchomp's ability to clean up a weakened team. I find that I've become so accustomed to having an Electric immunity that not can actually stay in on most enemies using Electric attacks. Its great Rock resist gave me a great Heracross switch in, it could take most metagross attacks. Garchomp was more than a great sweeper for teams. It was a defensive investment.

Though I guess that the fact that nearly every team I have has a Garchomp in it is a sign that change was necessary.

 

[darkie]

Look at Blissey! It can stake almost any Special hit, no matter how strong. And event Wish variants are nearly impossible to get rid off.

How threatening is Blissey? You can easily switch-in Machamp, Lucario, Hariyama, etc, etc, and scare it off.

Look at Toxic-Heal Sub Breloom! Beating him after he's been Baton-Passed a Swords Dance IS virtually impossible without upport from an Uber tier pokemon after he sets up a Substitute.

After he gets support from another Pokemon? This argument does not count at all. Garchomp can easily rampage through a team with little support from its teammates.

You obviously read nothing about how easily he can be countered with the right strategy.

Please tell us your strategy to beat Garchomp.

 

[JONNNN]

Wow. You guys are only picking apart my evidence using the parts of my post that we what? Two sentences long? Look at th other evidence. Garchomp is good, no doubt. But he's not a god among pokemon.

Look at Blissey! It can stake almost any Special hit, no matter how strong. And event Wish variants are nearly impossible to get rid off.

Look at Toxic-Heal Sub Breloom! Beating him after he's been Baton-Passed a Swords Dance IS virtually impossible without upport from an Uber tier pokemon after he sets up a Substitute.

You obviously read nothing about how easily he can be countered with the right strategy.

Look at Charizard! After it gets a belly drum/salac boost under a sub, he's impossible to stop! Garchomp pales in comparison to the mighty Charizard.

You're bringing this thread in a completely different direction. Just because something can function well with a lot of setup, doesnt mean they are "gods" and somehow outclass Garchomp.

 

[SLDT]

Those "counters" have been mentioned many times. If Garchomp SD's on the switch to your skarmory, he'll 2hko if its a life orb variant(im not sure) while the best your Skarmory can do is whirlwind it, it only took it out of the battle, it's still going to be a threat and now he knows you carry Skarmory.

You can't rely on Dusknoir's 70% accuracy move, especially when there is sand veil around. And Dusknoir won't like eating a +2 outrage/earthquake AT ALL. Breloom has solid counters. Cresselia, bronzong, celebi, etc can switch in and set up reflect, celebi even resists his stab and can nail him with stab psychic. Breloom is nowhere near as powerful as garchomp, even when "passed an SD."

Whatever. I guess I'm not going to be able to convince you. After all, it wont be my decision in the end anyway, so arguing about it is pointless. i have simply stated my opinion, with my evidence. I don't care about all of the little variables you could use to pick it apart. There exist plenty more variables that could tip a match far out of Chomp's favor, many other possible counters, and a number of well constructed strategies that could take him down with relative ease.

All in all, it's what I've got for his defense, and nothing more.

 

[Athrosu]

Wow. You guys are only picking apart my evidence using the parts of my post that we what? Two sentences long? Look at th other evidence. Garchomp is good, no doubt. But he's not a god among pokemon.

Look at Blissey! It can stake almost any Special hit, no matter how strong. And event Wish variants are nearly impossible to get rid off.

Look at Toxic-Heal Sub Breloom! Beating him after he's been Baton-Passed a Swords Dance IS virtually impossible without upport from an Uber tier pokemon after he sets up a Substitute.

You obviously read nothing about how easily he can be countered with the right strategy.

You suggested a strategy? All I see is you suggesting that we ice beam him, and then stating that he falls easily if you just switch in a counter (while not bothering to suggest a counter, which is important because there aren't any). You then suggest a couple of Pokemon that can survive a couple of hits from Garchomp (but can't do much damage back). Then you compare it to Infernape for some reason (I'm not sure why, considering its significantly lower stats and terrible typing), claim that Yache weakens its offense (Yache doesn't strengthen its offense, but that's not the same thing as weakening its offense), and lastly claim that it won't be good in ubers and therefore shouldn't be removed from OU.

 

[Bender]

How threatening is Blissey? You can easily switch-in Machamp, Lucario, Hariyama, etc, etc, and scare it off.

You may scare it off but there is a good chance you will be crippled with Thunder Wave in the process. The only problem I am having without Garchomp is that I was using it to switch into Thunder Waves and having problems finding something else to use besides it.

 

[Jumpman16]

I'm not even going to stoop to your level. What page and whose comment? I'll critique that because I honestly can't think of any reasons besides most people are unprepared for it and have no idea on how to counter one but think they do.

Aside from the facts that:


1) I already expressed my annoyance yesterday with having to repeat myself, which should have been a red flag

2) I then warned all of you to not post things in the Oh I never had a
problem with Garchomp" vein or I would infract you

3) you were linked repeatedly but appear to want to be spoonfed your answers


Tangerine took the words out of my mouth—who do you think you are? Do you think you are that much better than the majority of people who see why Garchomp is a Suspect? Why should we care what you think when you have demonstrated over and over again that you are not inclined to read anything that's been posted before?

And as for the part about you being disappointed about Smogon's competitive battle community thus far...lol. I would reserve your judgment till after you crack the top 10 on our OU Leaderboard, because for some reason I think it is far more likely that you are a shitty, ignorant player than it is we just ban things for no reason.

 

[Kira]

Wow. You guys are only picking apart my evidence using the parts of my post that we what? Two sentences long? Look at th other evidence. Garchomp is good, no doubt. But he's not a god among pokemon.

Look at Blissey! It can stake almost any Special hit, no matter how strong. And event Wish variants are nearly impossible to get rid off.

Look at Toxic-Heal Sub Breloom! Beating him after he's been Baton-Passed a Swords Dance IS virtually impossible without upport from an Uber tier pokemon after he sets up a Substitute.

You obviously read nothing about how easily he can be countered with the right strategy.

OMG! Look at Wigglytuff! It is impossible to beat after passed 3 agilities, and 3 Sd's! It belongs in UBERS!!!

See how ridiculous that argument is. Furthermore, missing Garchomp with Ice Beam, or not KO'ing Garchomp with Ice Beam due to Yache Berry can very well lead to your whole team getting swept. Meanwhile, Blissey simply takes hits while it does very little damage to your team except for Status which can be easily abused.

Now it hasn't even been established that Garchomp will be removed. This is only a test. If he does get removed then make your own server, or don't play on the Smogon server. Nobody is forcing you to.

 

[Athrosu]

You may scare it off but there is a good chance you will be crippled with Thunder Wave in the process. The only problem I am having without Garchomp is that I was using it to switch into Thunder Waves and having problems finding something else to use besides it.

There's no shortage of Ground-types out there, so your problem is probably that you're trying to find something that can replace Garchomp, when you ought to know that Pokemon is more diverse than that.

 

[Morty]

okay garchomp being banned is by far the right choice. yache sd is very broken. On the flipside, i often found when i tried to use yache sd garchomp, it seemed to backfire quite frequently. thats because we operate in a very anti chomp community, and despite that he can still perform very well. the fact that the metagame is so antichomp makes it possible to deal with him, but many people are frustrated over the fact that chomp confines the creativity of the metagame. whether u admit it or not, everything is related to chomp. Even the breloom sweeps are because of chomp, as many teams leave themselves valnerable to breloom in their effort to avoid getting "chomped". Besides, garchomp does quite well in ubers, with its abundance of dragons who hate the idea of getting outrun with a scarf and outraged. So is he completley dominating the current metagame? No because the metagame has been forced to adapt to his presence. Does he make it alot less fun? i would say he does. Garchomp is a spoiled little kid who wants the universe to revolve around him-metaphorically of course. personally i would love to see chomp go, and probably return next generation with a vengeance to an envirement that can comftortably adapt to him.

 

[phalanx]

chomp only played a bit-part in my team, metagross did most of the work for me, however i have noticed a fair difference in win rate between garchompless and normal ladder, even though garchomp was a bit part player (came in to use more recently as a killer to SDlucario).
there is nothing of note to replace garchomp, flygon is nearest you can get.

 

[Mrobinson587]

I'm just going to say I like the team's I've been seeing and it's fresh and interesting to have to balance a new team.

Anyone want to take a bet that black flame will say "Oh I won't battle with Smogon; they are douche bags," or something like that to pull out of here telling himself he still has his pride?

Black Flame--
Where are you going to go to find a better competitive community? Nowhere. Smogon is the best. Go get on a least the top 100 before disrespecting the very valid opinions and in some cases, facts being said by the some of the top players of Pokemon in this thread.

Also stop being such a grammer nazi. (Do you see that? I missed a comma just to piss you off.) You don't need fricken MLA format to be able to comprehend a post. I have NEVER heard any one care about grammar enough to b**** about MLA format on an internet forum. Most people will skip walls of text if they do appear and if someone does make a long post, most of the time they will lay it out in a readable format like jumpman16 did.

I am done taking English classes forever and I would like to keep it that way.

 

[Bender]

There's no shortage of Ground-types out there, so your problem is probably that you're trying to find something that can replace Garchomp, when you ought to know that Pokemon is more diverse than that.

Actually I had "replaced" Garchomp with Dragonite and am having problems fitting a ground type into my team without leaving my team open to certain threats. Garchomp had accomplished both before as a reliable sweeper and a realiable switch into thunder attacks and I used it on every one of my teams. Now I need 2 pokemon to accomplish both of those and I need to do some experimenting in order to find the right balence.

 

[Kagster123]

Actually I had "replaced" Garchomp with Dragonite and am having problems fitting a ground type into my team without leaving my team open to certain threats. Garchomp had accomplished both before as a reliable sweeper and a realiable switch into thunder attacks and I used it on every one of my teams. Now I need 2 pokemon to accomplish both of those and I need to do some experimenting in order to find the right balence.

Cursepert?

 

[Bourbon]

I found Swampert to be a major pain now that it comfortably counters Salamence and walls Boltbeam. It seems to be on a lot of teams. Because of this I now have HP Grass on Heatran and Zapdos. It helps out quite a bit. Now that Garchomp is gone, the only dragons left are neutral to Zapdos' Thunderbolt so they take decent damage even without a 4x Hidden Power.

 

[bobdisgea]

hehe i was ahead of the curve i guess using swampert and dragonite. im running him with yache to try to be as much like chomp as possible...but chomp will always hold a special place for me. Dragonite is working well on my team though..lots of late game sweeps after a dd

 

[eryz]

Personally I like Garchomp.
Though I must admit I still fear it due to it being able to sweep extremely hard in diverse ways.
We can all safely say he is on of the most dangerous threats in D/P.
But also, I wouldn't want him to be out of OU, because then he will be in Limbo, as I think he will be too weak for uber.
In conclusion, I do not want Garchomp to be another case of Wobbuffet.
There is a fine and rather blurred line between OU and Uber, Garchomp is threading on it now...

 

[chaos]

This thread should be closed, and a new one made. There is too much garbage here, and nobody understands that its a TEST. The discussion thread should be about experiences with testing the new metagame, not theorymon on why Garchomp should/should not be banned. Etc.

I'm also really dissapointed in threads like http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=925601&topic=44802355 . Way to realize we are _testing_ to know the effects of changes on the metagame... dumbasses.

If a mod sees this, please recreate this thread. I have to go ATM.