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Defining the NU Tier

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Well using the 75% cutoff point, Sandslash is an actual viable spinner (the only one not weak to SR.) There remains a question of whether this makes Sandslash necessary on every NU team, which would be bad, but the initial SR ban probably must go.

The best course of action would probably to have a NU ladder, but a tournament will do for now. The results are still pending.

And by the way, if you don't agree with the purpose of a thread that lots of people have put work into and has gone on for several pages, just shut the fuck up and get the fuck out. Discussing things that have never been brought up before is perfectly valid, it just is not necessarily the final tier list. I've also used almost everything in the list, so saying there has been no testing is obviously false.
 
Aldaron said:
O, and I assure you we will NOT be auto banning ANYTHING.

What falls underneath the 75% cut off in UU will be considered NU.

We'll ban into the NU-ban tier after some generally accepted period of time (probably 1-3 months).
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Chris is me said:
I'm kind of confused as to why this thread was allowed. It's been known for awhile that NU like all other real tiers will be determined by usage first, then bans for powerful Pokémon. So all this thread is doing is theory-monning at this point, with no battling or statistics.

Going a different way of calculating NU is off the table, I think. It's 75% with the powerful shit banned.
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I totally agree with both of you. Autobanning has completely messed up UU now, and I don't want this to happen to what could be a very fun tier. Only Snover, Hippopotas and possibly Chansey and Wynaut will be autobanned I believe. Everything else will be allowed, as that is indeed the way we should be determining what will be NU and what isn't.

It's nice to see some people making educated predicitions about what may happen though.
 
Cynthia, I'm not going to shut the fuck up and get the fuck out as you so eloquently put it because I disagree with the way you guys have been going about this. It's 12 pages of theorymon and Pokémon idealism, when in reality there's not all that much to discuss until the game is open for playing and testing.
 
Ok you disagree, fine ... but this discussion is harmless, and has up until now been good natured, so why not just let it continue in this way?
 
I'm not trying to take it down or anything, I just think that a "real" NU metagame should be set up as soon as possible so we can back up claims with experience.
 
Yeah, the discussing is great, but I've been reading through the thread, and the fact that people have already been creating lists of banned NU Pokemon is quite unsettling.

Speculation, and predictions are perfectly fine, but reading this, it seems people are going to start taking some action in some way, and I'm sure everyone's fine with you taking care of it, I just want to make sure it's done properly this time, and doesn't become another fiasco.

Nothing, except for Hippopotas, Snover, and possibly Chansey and Wynaut should be auto-banned (these will probably even be banned from UU), yet some seem to be suggesting that Pokemon like Gorebyss, Aggron and Articuno get banned off the bat. I'm 98% sure they'll be banned in the end, but 98% isn't good enough. We, as a community, need to be 100% sure.

But, yes, let's keep this discussion good-natured, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.
 
The purpose of this thread was to discuss the NU tier, which was not able to be done in the UU/BL discussion thread. This was also before the UU ladder, so statistics were not available and the most fair system of discussion was used instead. I never said I was against testing everything below the 7% mark, I 'm for it in fact. I was merely predicting some Pokemon that would leave shortly.

Realize however, that I do have experience with these Pokemon. I've used them, been against them, know how to counter them and their abilities. Saying that we all have no experience in regards to them in rubbish, since this is essentially just a subset of UU.

Also, a SR weakness does not totally cripple a spinner, but with no recovery sans Rest and taking 25% upon switching in its only a matter of time before they die.SR has a lot of other advantages too, it's easy to set up etc. Having all the spinners in a tier be SR weak is not good.

P.S. If you don't have anything remotely intelligent to say, don't bother posting.
 
Uhh no it is not rubbish. You have not had experience with them in this tier.

Stop pretending that your experience with them in UU is valid reasoning here in the NU tier.
 
I didn't say it was the only thing that should be taken into consideration, but just because I haven't played very much with them with the top 25% cut off doesn't mean I don't know what Sandslash/etc. all does against Pokemon that have been lumped into the NU tier. I've had matches where all of the Pokemon were 'NU', so yeah I would call that the same as playtesting NU.
 
You don't see how taking your word for you having experience with NU Pokemon in an UU environment might be kind of hazy for us?

Not to mention that even if we somehow could believe that you have a significant amount of experience using 6 NU Pokemon on a team against various players also using 6 NU Pokemon on team, we would still have a problem because while they might be NU Pokemon, they are built for the UU environment.
 
Well, the best way that I see to actually "make" a "NU Tier" is to compile a temporary NU list, and test it (In a tournament, I suppose) and find out if anything is too powerful.
 
My point was just because iI haven't used this exact list of Pokemon in a ladder setting, it doesn't mean I don't know what they do. And the environment they were used in contained the Pokemon listed on the NU list.

And yes I've had NU matches using some of the lesser used of UU with ODDish and some others.
 
Great, so we now have no ladder and no tournament. It's getting pretty difficult to create a NU tier at this point.
 
What exactly did you send to him? Show us the PM, because if it was just your arbitrary rules (your old "indisputable" NU that was completely arbitrary), then it would be sort of understandable.

Why don't you create a Freewebs site or something for the tournament, then link to it here? (unless that's against the rules)
 
Hey guys, I've been watching this discussion developing for a while, and I just thought I'd let you know that I'd be interested in getting involved with NU testing/tourneys, so let me know if you get anywhere.
 
I actually did mention that people were going both ways, so here's what I sent so you could pick it apart and criticize blablabla.

Age of Kings said:
Hi, I'm applying for permission to co-host an "NU" tournament with Cynthia, proposed here. So far, NU has only been a sea of propositions and theorymoning. However, we believe that by hosting a tournament, we'll have some actual experience and play and finally get the tier off the ground. Interest appears to be high, so I have a strong belief that it will be conclusive.

Although there is some dissent over what Pokemon will be allowed, the rules are firmly in place (by this I meant standard clauses and such, and SR before that issue was raised), so it'll be for the most part organized and clean.

And I think that's about all I can say for now, thanks in advance.
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As for hosting it somewhere else, I don't see why not. It's not like there's secret police tracking us down and then banning all of us for hosting a tournament somewhere else. The only thing is that maybe the admins will find a way to discredit our results because it wasn't hosted on Smogon, but results are results.
 
Cynthia said:
My point was just because iI haven't used this exact list of Pokemon in a ladder setting, it doesn't mean I don't know what they do. And the environment they were used in contained the Pokemon listed on the NU list.

And yes I've had NU matches using some of the lesser used of UU with ODDish and some others.
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Basic knowledge of what a Pokémon can do is pretty common, really. It still doesn't change that except for a tiny handful of battles you guys are GUESSING where Pokémon should go tier wise. There really needs to be no discussion until an NU metagame has been played by a lot for awhile, and certainly not the mistake of theorymon bans.

Basically, it'd make sense to SOLELY focus on getting a viable way to play NU out there before you do anything else (too late for that I guess). Even if you can't get one on Smogon, I'm sure Doug could hook you up on CaP or something.
 
hmm a better NU tier i bellieve would be:
Arbok
Ariados
Beautifly
Beedrill
Butterfree
Castform
Chatot
Chimecho
Corsola
Delcatty
Delibird
Ditto
Dustox
Farfetch’d
Furrett
Girafarig
Illumise
Kecleon
Kricketune
Ledian
Lumineon
Luvdisc
Magcargo
Masquerian
Mawile
Mothim
Pachirisu
Parasect
Pelipper
Pidgeot
Qwilfish
Raticate
Roselia
Seaking
Spinda
Stantler
Sunflora
Swalot
Tropius
Unown
Volbeat
Whiscash
Wigglytuff
Wormadam (Grass)
Wormadam (Steel)
 
Melissa X said:
hmm a better NU tier i bellieve would be:
Arbok
Ariados
Beautifly
Beedrill
Butterfree
Castform
Chatot
Chimecho
Corsola
Delcatty
Delibird
Ditto
Dustox
Farfetch’d
Furrett
Girafarig
Illumise
Kecleon
Kricketune
Ledian
Lumineon
Luvdisc
Magcargo
Masquerian
Mawile
Mothim
Pachirisu
Parasect
Pelipper
Pidgeot
Qwilfish
Raticate
Roselia
Seaking
Spinda
Stantler
Sunflora
Swalot
Tropius
Unown
Volbeat
Whiscash
Wigglytuff
Wormadam (Grass)
Wormadam (Steel)
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Won't every single non-UU, non banned Pokemon be in NU? There'll be hundreds of Pokemon in the tier to use. I suspect there'll be an even lower usage tier than NU eventually, now that we're including NFEs.
 
Since we are finally embarking on a mission to fix uu, it does bring up an interesting question...should we bother to make this nu tier now?

I don't think so anymore. UU as it is currently will be allowed to run its course, but once the new ladder has established its metagame, the current UU will be phazed out.

I don't think we should establish a second faulty metagame, if you know what I mean.
 
How could this second metagame be faulty if we haven't even tested anything yet? That's why we need to test what works and what doesn't work so we can create a working tier with NU, kind of like OU.
 
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