NU looks fairly offensive
-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Defining the NU Tier
- Thread starter Age of Kings
- Start date
- Status
With the list I'm seeing now, as well as the team I've drafted so far, it appears to be so.
But who knows? That's why we should have a tournament to get a feel for what the metagame will be like.
So will someone just post here for the tournament date then??
I almost laughed when I saw Aggron in NU... pretty sure that should be the first thing tested!
I almost laughed when I saw Aggron in NU... pretty sure that should be the first thing tested!
I haven't even sent an application for permission yet, I promise I'll get to it tomorrow.
Aggron isn't NU. We're sticking with the list that was posted a few pages back before we even test anything. We have to come up with the metagame first before we mess around with testing.
Yeah, I think an official tournament to help define UU would be a great idea.
If we're going to use this month's tier list to define NU (and the 75% cut-off point):
I don't think we should be making judgements just yet, because Pokemon that may seem very powerful ("Aggron has STAB Stone Edge and perfect coverage with Double-edge/Earthquake! Good defenses, Rock Polish!") may prove to be kept in check by other seemingly overpowering Pokemon. As it stands now though, NU looks like it could be the most centralized tier (besides uber).
If we're going to use this month's tier list to define NU (and the 75% cut-off point):
I don't think we should be making judgements just yet, because Pokemon that may seem very powerful ("Aggron has STAB Stone Edge and perfect coverage with Double-edge/Earthquake! Good defenses, Rock Polish!") may prove to be kept in check by other seemingly overpowering Pokemon. As it stands now though, NU looks like it could be the most centralized tier (besides uber).
Yes, that's true, but still NU tier has pokemon like Bastiodon, Whishcash, Tropius, Swalot, etc. which have really good defences for NU. That's true that NU is offensive, but stalling is still possible if someone want to try it.
And about tournament - Of course I like this idea. But I need to ask for something - We'll use only pokemon from standard NU list or we allow also controversial pokemon like Golem, Lunatone or Pelipper ? And here's the list of those pokemon which are "BL of NU" for people, which want to know those 'borderline' pokemon, which were posted in this thread (by Cynthia).
Borderline
Bannete
Belossom
Bibarel
Butterfree
Chatot
Cloyster
Dewgong
Dunsparce
Golem
Kingler
Lopunny
Lunatone
Mr Mime
Octillery
Pelipper
Raticate
Solrock
Stantler
Vespiquen - Already banned I guess ?
^I meant the using the standard NU list. We're not including just everything out of UU's top 75% yet, because NU is supposed to be balanced. the point of the tournament is to see how NU will be played and include or exclude whatever you guys want to test. I agree with umbarsc, however, that it would be overcentralized....I can see every team needing Bastiodon/Wormadam/Magcargo due to all of the new offensive threats like Mothim, Fearow, and the grass types.
EDIT;; What I like, and I hope a lot of people agree with me on this, is that a lot of NU Pokemon are actually pretty usable. In fact, Delibird/Unown/Luvdisc/etc are the only ones of their kind, and much of the tier will at least see some use.
EDIT;; What I like, and I hope a lot of people agree with me on this, is that a lot of NU Pokemon are actually pretty usable. In fact, Delibird/Unown/Luvdisc/etc are the only ones of their kind, and much of the tier will at least see some use.
Repost of undisputed NU list:
I think we should just include absolutely everything in the initial test. Aggron may seem like a major concern on paper, but perhaps it performs dismally in the tournament.
There is no true way to tell how uber a Pokemon is until we see it in battle, so why shouldn't we just make NU fundamentally correct like we should have done for OU/UU since we have a fresh start? That way there won't be a whole big mess of arguments and debates about it later.
There is no true way to tell how uber a Pokemon is until we see it in battle, so why shouldn't we just make NU fundamentally correct like we should have done for OU/UU since we have a fresh start? That way there won't be a whole big mess of arguments and debates about it later.
This is entirely correct. UU is as borked as it is because so much crap was banned without testing and now we have a disaster. If we're gonna do this, lets do it right, and save a lot of trouble later.
Question.
Say if there is such a Pokemon to keep Aggron or whatever in check that people don't use it even then.
What becomes of that Pokemon? What's below "NU"?
Are we defining NU, or are we defining a new tier below UU but solidifying NU to truly Pokemon that are Never Used?
OK can we all please stop with this notion of a standard NU list. The list was arbitrarily created by guess work (albeit educated guess work), and to think of it as standard sets a dangerous precedent.
Just so we are all clear, its never going to be completely balanced.
Even before you get to the BLNU and likes of Aggron, there is inbalance amongst the "standard" list as things like Flareon, Arbok and Seviper, outclass Luvdisc, Ditto and Corsola ...
So every team will have a wall ... is this such a radical development?
Again, no. There are things on this "undisputed" list that sh/could be considered more controversial than those on the NUBL list ...
I agree
Probably nothing ... if your favourite pokemon fails to get used in "NU" (although I really hope we get rid of the name) then I suggest you lynch Gamefreak for creating such a crappy thing in the first place ...
If NU proves to be centralized and balanced, with only a few Pokemon banned, that will mean there'll still be a plethora of Pokemon (especially since NFEs are allowed) not getting any use, so will we be having an even lower usage tier than NU if that happens?
I think that it would be be best to also include the Borderline pokes in with the test, this would be a good place to test them.
However, including all pokemon under the 75% cutoff line (which is an arbitrary line in and of itself by the way) is not such a good idea. Be aware that no tier currently exists between NU and UU, so all Pokemon banned due to power in NU automatically end up UU. Using the same principles for the UU/BL ladders does not work in this case. So I think it's a better idea to remove the most powerful UU pokes, which includes the top 25% and some others, in order to create a more balanced tier right from the start.
Also, there has been no official ruling involving NFE.
However, including all pokemon under the 75% cutoff line (which is an arbitrary line in and of itself by the way) is not such a good idea. Be aware that no tier currently exists between NU and UU, so all Pokemon banned due to power in NU automatically end up UU. Using the same principles for the UU/BL ladders does not work in this case. So I think it's a better idea to remove the most powerful UU pokes, which includes the top 25% and some others, in order to create a more balanced tier right from the start.
Also, there has been no official ruling involving NFE.
Arbok
Ariados
Bastiodon
Beautifly
Beedrill
Carnivine
Castform
Cherrim
Chimecho
Corsola
Delcatty
Delibird
Ditto
Dustox
Exploud
Farfetch'd
Fearow
Flareon
Furret
Girafarig
Glalie
Illumise
Kecleon
Kricketune
Ledian
Lumineon
Luvdisc
Magcargo
Masquerain
Mawile
Mightyena
Minun
Mothim
Pachirisu
Parasect
Pidgeot
Plusle
Sableye
Seaking
Seviper
Spinda
Sunflora
Swalot
Trapinch
Tropius
Unown
Vigoroth
Volbeat
Whiscash
Wigglytuff
Wormadam(all forms)
Xatu
Bannete
Belossom
Bibarel
Butterfree
Chatot
Cloyster
Dewgong
Dunsparce
Golem
Kingler
Lopunny
Lunatone
Mr Mime
Octillery
Pelipper
Raticate
Solrock
Stantler
Vespiquen
This would be the testing group. If through testing any appear to overcentralize, they can go to UU.
I'm not personally opposed to making a new tier umbarsc, but Smogon's usually not too accepting of trying to change the Uber/Ou/BL/UU/NU tier system. So I'm trying to seperate into just UU and NU for now.
Ariados
Bastiodon
Beautifly
Beedrill
Carnivine
Castform
Cherrim
Chimecho
Corsola
Delcatty
Delibird
Ditto
Dustox
Exploud
Farfetch'd
Fearow
Flareon
Furret
Girafarig
Glalie
Illumise
Kecleon
Kricketune
Ledian
Lumineon
Luvdisc
Magcargo
Masquerain
Mawile
Mightyena
Minun
Mothim
Pachirisu
Parasect
Pidgeot
Plusle
Sableye
Seaking
Seviper
Spinda
Sunflora
Swalot
Trapinch
Tropius
Unown
Vigoroth
Volbeat
Whiscash
Wigglytuff
Wormadam(all forms)
Xatu
Bannete
Belossom
Bibarel
Butterfree
Chatot
Cloyster
Dewgong
Dunsparce
Golem
Kingler
Lopunny
Lunatone
Mr Mime
Octillery
Pelipper
Raticate
Solrock
Stantler
Vespiquen
This would be the testing group. If through testing any appear to overcentralize, they can go to UU.
I'm not personally opposed to making a new tier umbarsc, but Smogon's usually not too accepting of trying to change the Uber/Ou/BL/UU/NU tier system. So I'm trying to seperate into just UU and NU for now.
UU/BL isn't the same as NU/UU because of how the tiers are set up. There isn't any tier to put in Pokemon that are below the usage mark, but still too powerful for NU.
Also there isn't any plan for a NU ladder at this time, but there are plans for a NU tournament, which should be submitted soon.
Also there isn't any plan for a NU ladder at this time, but there are plans for a NU tournament, which should be submitted soon.
I think just putting in everything that hasn't made the 75% cut is being a little bit ahead of ourselves, because we don't even have a metagame to speak of. How do we know something is balanced or unbalanced right now? Although I do agree with the things Cynthia included in the testing group...
Whatever we decide, though, I'm going to apply for permission right now, so hang tight.
Whatever we decide, though, I'm going to apply for permission right now, so hang tight.
I completely agree with creating a new tier, but the new tier would be based purely on usage, not NU.
I apologize for the double post, but the application has been sent, so I'm waiting for Sonuis' word.
- Status