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Pokemon Platinum - The definitive thread: Mach 3 (Competitive Discussion)

dragonites said:
There's probably alot of other places I could post this, but since people seem to think Dragonite is gonna suck now, I ran some calculations as a wall breaker...

Dragonite @ Life Orb
Naughty
170 Att/ 124 Sp/216 Sp Att
~Superpower
~TBolt
~Ice Beam/Fire Blast
~Draco Meteor

Superpower against standard Blissey- 101-118% OHKO
Thunderbolt to Bulky Gyara- 125-148% OHKO
Ice Beam to Gliscor (no Sp Def/252 HP)- 172-203% OHKO
Draco Meteor to Zapdos (252 HP)- 75-89% 2HKO (1 w/ SR up)
Draco Meteor to Celebi (252 HP)- 66- 77% 2HKO
Fire Blast to same Celebi- 72-84% 2HKO
Draco Meteor to Cresselia- 55-65% Meh..
Thunderbolt to Vaporeon- 56-66% (add 10% to each for Draco Meteor) 2HKO
Ice Beam to Hippowdon (252 HP)- 75-89% 2HKO
Draco Meteor to same Hippowdon-83-98% 2HKO (1 with Stealth Rocks up)
Fire Blast/Tbolt to Skarm- no need to calculate OHKO

I've been tweaking this to take full advantage of Dragonite's stats. Naughty>Mild because the EVs give it 3-4 more points in each Att/Sp Att. Speed EVs give it 227 (Gliscor runs 226, Bulky Gyara 223). Also, the EVs provided guarantee the kill on Blissey (beat that 'Mence : P) with Superpower.

This is essentially BOAH- but better. There's no need to rely on Substitute and Focus Punch to handle Bliss because Superpower takes care of that. Boltbeam gives it coverage on the usual counters, and Draco Meteor hits hard on just about everything.
Click to expand...
Nice set. At least Dragonite has Focus Punch, Ele-Punches, Agility, Superpower, Ice Beam and Thunderbolt over Salamence so is isn't "utterly outclassed".

EDIT: @ Flurries my Altaria avatar is glowing because of this :P..
 
dragonites said:
There's probably alot of other places I could post this, but since people seem to think Dragonite is gonna suck now, I ran some calculations as a wall breaker...

Dragonite @ Life Orb
Naughty
170 Att/ 124 Sp/216 Sp Att
~Superpower
~TBolt
~Ice Beam/Fire Blast
~Draco Meteor

Superpower against standard Blissey- 101-118% OHKO
Thunderbolt to Bulky Gyara- 125-148% OHKO
Ice Beam to Gliscor (no Sp Def/252 HP)- 172-203% OHKO
Draco Meteor to Zapdos (252 HP)- 75-89% 2HKO (1 w/ SR up)
Draco Meteor to Celebi (252 HP)- 66- 77% 2HKO
Fire Blast to same Celebi- 72-84% 2HKO
Draco Meteor to Cresselia- 55-65% Meh..
Thunderbolt to Vaporeon- 56-66% (add 10% to each for Draco Meteor) 2HKO
Ice Beam to Hippowdon (252 HP)- 75-89% 2HKO
Draco Meteor to same Hippowdon-83-98% 2HKO (1 with Stealth Rocks up)
Fire Blast/Tbolt to Skarm- no need to calculate OHKO

I've been tweaking this to take full advantage of Dragonite's stats. Naughty>Mild because the EVs give it 3-4 more points in each Att/Sp Att. Speed EVs give it 227 (Gliscor runs 226, Bulky Gyara 223). Also, the EVs provided guarantee the kill on Blissey (beat that 'Mence : P) with Superpower.

This is essentially BOAH- but better. There's no need to rely on Substitute and Focus Punch to handle Bliss because Superpower takes care of that. Boltbeam gives it coverage on the usual counters, and Draco Meteor hits hard on just about everything.
Click to expand...

Nicely done. This will be my DDnite standard now. Time to rebreed as Outrage DDnite hasn't paid off in a while.

What excites me the most is the Snorlax add ons. He's looking sweet!
 
dragonites said:
There's probably alot of other places I could post this, but since people seem to think Dragonite is gonna suck now, I ran some calculations as a wall breaker...

Dragonite @ Life Orb
Naughty
170 Att/ 124 Sp/216 Sp Att
~Superpower
~TBolt
~Ice Beam/Fire Blast
~Draco Meteor

Superpower against standard Blissey- 101-118% OHKO
Thunderbolt to Bulky Gyara- 125-148% OHKO
Ice Beam to Gliscor (no Sp Def/252 HP)- 172-203% OHKO
Draco Meteor to Zapdos (252 HP)- 75-89% 2HKO (1 w/ SR up)
Draco Meteor to Celebi (252 HP)- 66- 77% 2HKO
Fire Blast to same Celebi- 72-84% 2HKO
Draco Meteor to Cresselia- 55-65% Meh..
Thunderbolt to Vaporeon- 56-66% (add 10% to each for Draco Meteor) 2HKO
Ice Beam to Hippowdon (252 HP)- 75-89% 2HKO
Draco Meteor to same Hippowdon-83-98% 2HKO (1 with Stealth Rocks up)
Fire Blast/Tbolt to Skarm- no need to calculate OHKO

I've been tweaking this to take full advantage of Dragonite's stats. Naughty>Mild because the EVs give it 3-4 more points in each Att/Sp Att. Speed EVs give it 227 (Gliscor runs 226, Bulky Gyara 223). Also, the EVs provided guarantee the kill on Blissey (beat that 'Mence : P) with Superpower.

This is essentially BOAH- but better. There's no need to rely on Substitute and Focus Punch to handle Bliss because Superpower takes care of that. Boltbeam gives it coverage on the usual counters, and Draco Meteor hits hard on just about everything.
Click to expand...

Dragonite is one of my favorite pokemon, and this shows it's greatness.

But what does it have over Salamance? Salamance has better stats.
 
I'm just trying to make sure Dragonite doesn't get ignored. IMO this does totally outclass BOAH... but yeah, Snorlax did seem to get some new (possibly too many) good moves with Platinum. I'm gonna have the most fun with CB Donphan though with Seed Bomb.

Meta- in DP, Mence and nite had the same role, now they'll be different. Since with Outrage Mence makes a better Dragon Dancer, Superpower compensates for the fact that the best Mence gets is Brick Break.
 
Darkprophet said:
I would hardly call Skarm a 100% counter to Staraptor... Close Combat is a 3HKO on typical Adamant-Scarf set. That's not bad, considering something like Weezing walls it better. Choice Banded Adamant 'raptor is hitting 52% minimum. I'm not 100% sure if Heatwave really is worth using. This is all just Theorymon though, so, I could be completely off. <.<
Click to expand...
uhhh... CB 'Raptor CC vs max/max Skarm: 35% - 41% :\
dragonites said:
Dragonite @ Life Orb
Naughty
170 Att/ 124 Sp/216 Sp Att
~Superpower
~TBolt
~Ice Beam/Fire Blast
~Draco Meteor
Click to expand...
Knew this set was coming. Cool that it doesn't have to rely on Focus Punch anymore. Why not drop the Attack EVs some so Bliss is hit for 100% minimum? I'd up the speed a little too.
MetaNite said:
But what does it have over Salamance?
Click to expand...
uhmmm a 1HKO on Blissey? It's not much, but it's something. Dragonites raises a good point with comparing it to Boah.
dragonites said:
Speed EVs give it 227 (Gliscor runs 226, Bulky Gyara 223).
Click to expand...
This raises a good question... with Garchomp now in Uber, what's the new bulkydos spread going to be? My money's on enough speed to outrun Mixape after a DD. If you go down EV wise rather than up, you risk being outrun by max speed Adamant Tyranitar before a boost.
 
Damn, everybody's calling me fat today : ( lol

Well the EVs only guarantee 101% damage to Blissey so there's not much room for improvement there Anti+ lol.

As for Gyarados, the spread won't change much, just a few EVs added into Speed most likely. Subtracting from Defense would make like a .5% difference but gives it the extra edge speed wise (which can be worth much more than just .5%).
 
Huh, Cham gets Zen Headbutt. It has 10 more power than psycho cut and a chance to flinch. But is that worth 10 accuracy and the lower critical hit rate?
 
If i traded my stuff to a japanese platinum and traded it back with tutor moves on them, they would stay right? I cant wait for for bullet punch scizor and outrage flygon -_-
 
I think that's been denied. If it does get it then no worries- Mence will be in Ubers.
 
I checked some tutor moves too, not sure if these have been done already, but here they are.

Pelliper: Air Cutter, Ominous Wind, Icy Wind, Knock Off, Snore, Swift, Uproar, Mud Slap, Gunk Shot, Twister, Seed Bomb

Moltres: Ominous Wind, Air Cutter, Snore, Swift, Mud Slap, Ancientpower, Twister, Heat Wave

Pidgeot: Ominous Wind, Air Cutter, Snore, Swift, Uproar, Mud Slap, Twister, Heat Wave

Dugtrio: Sucker Punch, Snore, Mud Slap, Earth Power

Roserade: Fury Cutter, Snore, Swift, Mud Slap, Seed Bomb

Dustox: Ominous Wind, Air Cutter, Snore, Swift, Signal Beam, Twister

Tentacruel: Dive, Icy Wind, Knock Off, Snore

Medicham: Fire Punch, Ice Punch, Thunder Punch, Zen Headbutt, Vacuum Wave, Trick, Snore, Helping Hand, Swift, Mud Slap, Signal Beam

Zapdos: Ominous Wind, Air Cutter, Snore, Swift, Mud Slap, Ancientpower, Signal Beam, Twister, Heat Wave

Magnezone: Snore, Magnet Rise, Swift, Rollout, Iron Head, Signal Beam, Iron Defense
 
I bet we see a Blaziken recovery now that it's movepool has expanded. Disappointing that we don't know every Vacuum Wave Poke yet..
 
Speaking of Sheddy, I'd like to see Sucker Punch, Trick, and Knock Off added to its movepool. And of course, Endeavor, but I don't think Game Freak is THAT stupid.

*looks at Earth Power Dugtrio* Uh... Nevermind.
 
Khyl said:
Speaking of Sheddy, I'd like to see Sucker Punch, Trick, and Knock Off added to its movepool. And of course, Endeavor, but I don't think Game Freak is THAT stupid.

*looks at Earth Power Dugtrio* Uh... Nevermind.
Click to expand...
XD has proven that they know what an Endeavor Sheddy can do, there was a battle CD where you had to have Shedinja Mimic Endeavor in a double battle. This was BEFORE Shadow Sneak.
 
Deck Knight said:
Gyarados 1 DD 252 +Atk Outrage on 252/252 +Def Vaporeon:

44-52%.

Neutral Def:

48-57%

Kind of depressing, but a solid 2HKO with Life Orb, or a secong DD. Unless Vappy carries HP Elec, Gyarados wins this fight. Too bad a confused DDGyarados is very, um, bad.
Click to expand...

If Vaporeon does not carry Hidden Power [Electric] then why would you use Vaporeon in an attempt to counter it, when the inevitable of Vaporeon fainting will occur? I am of course assuming that the Vaporeon has Hidden Power [Electric].

And not to forget a Gyarados locked in a non-STABed Outrage is even worse. If you switch Vaporeon into the Dragon Dance, then you will still hit Gyarados with Hidden Power [Electric] at least once, and then you can proceed to switch to your Steel-type or Protect until confusion kicks in. After that, you're in control.
 
MegaMewtwo said:
XD has proven that they know what an Endeavor Sheddy can do, there was a battle CD where you had to have Shedinja Mimic Endeavor in a double battle. This was BEFORE Shadow Sneak.
Click to expand...
Another semi-broken Endeavor user would be Shuckle. It would be able to do damage to people at least. Cripple someone to low health, then take it out with a fast attack from someone else.

Also with Shuckle, Knock Off + Body Slam is legal now. ^_^
 
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