New and "creative" moveset/EV spread thread "Mark 2"

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For Curse Bibarel Waterfall has 80BP not 90.

Some more things to toss around: I really do feel that Taunt should be a consideration somewhere or drop a note that PHazers MUST be removed before attempting this set. But where to put Taunt I don't know... probably over Quick Attack. Another question: could Super Fang work on this set over Amnesia? After a couple of boosts from Curse I'm pretty sure if you can put a Pokemon into 50% range that isn't extremely bulky it could possibly be knocked out by Quick Attack.

More of a consideration as well: Rest / Sleep Talk / Curse / Waterfall Bibarel anyone? Otherwise looking forward to Curse Bibarel in Platinum!
 
Well, the whole point of me making this is because I got Curse on my flawless Bibarel. (Japanese Platinum)

I like Aqua Tail (90 Base Power, I meant this instead of Waterfall) / Quick Attack / Curse / Amnesia. Super Fang makes me want to take off some attack EVs.

And, I like double STAB. And priority. It just works nicely. (Reminds me of Azumarill)

Besides, what can a phazer do? Roar/Whirlwind? That has negative priority, and +2 STAB Aqua Tail can do a lot of damage.
 
the thing i believe bibarel should really run max HP max SpD careful nature. That way it can actually take a hit from either side after one turn.
Aqua Tail isn't an option you can't afford that with a wall.

I would go with:

Careful @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP 252 SpD 6 Def
--Curse
--Waterfall
--Quick Attack
--Rest

This is the most effective i mean the entire set is only walled by Shedninja and Empoleon 3 Turns and you are entirely set up

as for bulky-mence seems fine
 
^Simple means that Superpower will lower Atk and Def by two stages rather than one.

Curse/Waterfall/Quick Attack or Return/Taunt or Amnesia looks like the way to go.
 
mailman said:
the thing i believe bibarel should really run max HP max SpD careful nature. That way it can actually take a hit from either side after one turn.
Aqua Tail isn't an option you can't afford that with a wall.

I would go with:

Careful @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP 252 SpD 6 Def
--Curse
--Waterfall
--Quick Attack
--Rest

This is the most effective i mean the entire set is only walled by Shedninja and Empoleon 3 Turns and you are entirely set up

as for bulky-mence seems fine
Click to expand...

Well, I'm revolving this set around an Adamant nature, as you can see. And, this set is more of a sweeper than a wall. A bulky sweeper.

Lee said:
^Simple means that Superpower will lower Atk and Def by two stages rather than one.

Curse/Waterfall/Quick Attack or Return/Taunt or Amnesia looks like the way to go.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I just realized that. I like Quick Attack over Return, and I'll put Aqua Tail over Waterfall for now, since it's an egg move, and you can put Waterfall on it if you want to.

But, I just don't see how Taunt is useful.
 
I've said it before, but I hate Quick Attack even with STAB. It might bypass the speed drop, but you'll have to get a number of Curses in to make good on it. Return is the way to go to stop UU bulky waters from laughing at the set. It generally makes anything a little queezy about switching in.

And if you can't see how Taunt is useful, just wow. Steels and Bulky Waters will feel free to switch in all day and a) phaze you, or b) put you to sleep. There are a lot of Pokemon that can stand up to Bibarel with one under his belt, and a few can with two. So, Taunt is a huge requirement. Either you run Amnesia, and eliminate every phazer/status enduser out there.. or you run Taunt and take care of their special sweeper(s).
 
Here, I'll run a quick damage calculation on Swampert. (Standard Bulky set, 240 HP / 216 Defense, relaxed)

Quick Attack (+2 Attack): 21.2% - 25.44%
Return (+2 Attack): 54.61% - 64.34%

Holy crap, I see your point.
 
Yeh but the thing is after you have cursed you will be slower so when you use return it will attack you once.

So say this, you use quick attack for 25 percent then Swampert attacks you. Then you use quick attack again so now you did 50 percent to Pert and it attacked you once.

Or, It attacks you first then you use return for 55 percent. Either way you are doing around 50 and getting attacked once.

Also Swampert's special attacks are Bibarel resists and you have 2 plus defense to handle EQ. I think quick attack is better because there are frail pokes that are more threatening to it then Swampert.
 
It'd be nice if you could include calcs on what a +2 attack bibarel does to common UU phazers, since the main reason you'd probably want max attack is to save yourself against them or stop them from ruining your setup next time by denting them alot
 
uh id just like to note that scizors QA is MUCH stronger than bibarel's so compare to the popularity of that set.

check my thread where i posted a bunch of calcs.
 
Mr_Goodbar said:
It'd be nice if you could include calcs on what a +2 attack bibarel does to common UU phazers, since the main reason you'd probably want max attack is to save yourself against them or stop them from ruining your setup next time by denting them alot
Click to expand...

Well, I don't really know all of the common UU phazers. :X
 
Blaziken @ Petaya Berry
Modest
76 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
- Agility
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
- Flamethrower

Not really original as it's just a sandstorm weak version of the popular Scizor/Empoleon sets, but it's always nice to use a set that Infernape can't! Not only does Infernape not learn Agility or Baton Pass, but Blaziken has higher SpA.

Switch in on something that will flee, Sub the switch, Baton Pass away if it's something like Gyarados or use Agility and start to Sub down if it's something that doesn't resist Fire. Sweep away with 525 SpA Blaze'd Flamethrowers and when you're confronted by something you can't KO, Baton Pass the +2 Spe and +1 SpA to something else. Outruns Adamant Breloom before Agility and Modest Scarfgar after an Agility.

It has it's problems, namely that it's SS weak and Fire is an easily resisted type but Baton Pass goes a long way towards remedying those problems.
 
Not sure if this will actually work, but I thought it was kind of funny, because Octillery is the only pokemon that can pull this off I think, due to its decent stats in both attacks (for UU standards anyway) and pretty low speed.

As we all know, Water + Normal is only resisted by Empoleon, Dialga, Giratina, and Shedinja... This set is meant to be used under Trick Room:

Octillery @Life Orb (or Silk Scarf/Mystic Water)
Brave/Quiet (0 Speed IVs obviously)
252 Attack 252 Sp. Attack 4 HP
Surf
Waterfall
Return
Wring Out

So at least specialized walls aren't walling it totally.
 
diablojd05 said:
Yeh but the thing is after you have cursed you will be slower so when you use return it will attack you once.

So say this, you use quick attack for 25 percent then Swampert attacks you. Then you use quick attack again so now you did 50 percent to Pert and it attacked you once.

Or, It attacks you first then you use return for 55 percent. Either way you are doing around 50 and getting attacked once.

Also Swampert's special attacks are Bibarel resists and you have 2 plus defense to handle EQ. I think quick attack is better because there are frail pokes that are more threatening to it then Swampert.
Click to expand...

You've got it all wrong. If a Swampert DID switch in, he'd be there to Roar you away. So, Return gives more immediate results, and less turns of Leftover recovery. Most Pokemon that switch in will be a phazer, unless Bibarel has killed something. There is Taunt for this problem, which you will hopefully be using over Amnesia.

Return will also 'dent' something like Luxray that switch-ins in to Intimidate you, lowering negating your Curse.
 
Lee said:
Blaziken @ Petaya Berry
Modest
76 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
- Agility
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
- Flamethrower

Not really original as it's just a sandstorm weak version of the popular Scizor/Empoleon sets, but it's always nice to use a set that Infernape can't! Not only does Infernape not learn Agility or Baton Pass, but Blaziken has higher SpA.

Switch in on something that will flee, Sub the switch, Baton Pass away if it's something like Gyarados or use Agility and start to Sub down if it's something that doesn't resist Fire. Sweep away with 525 SpA Blaze'd Flamethrowers and when you're confronted by something you can't KO, Baton Pass the +2 Spe and +1 SpA to something else. Outruns Adamant Breloom before Agility and Modest Scarfgar after an Agility.

It has it's problems, namely that it's SS weak and Fire is an easily resisted type but Baton Pass goes a long way towards remedying those problems.
Click to expand...

if it's possible (idk can't do calcs rite now), you might want to add how many EV's it takes to outspeed timid scarfgar after an agility
 
That would involve going Timid and I personally don't feel it's worth the drop in power from 350 to 319 (or 525 to 478 if you prefer).
 
Nope, not really, especially considering Timid Scarf Gengar mostly exists for Deoxys-S and stuff.

I've been kind of enamored by the idea of Trick + Nasty Plot. On Porygon-Z, there's a bit of a flaw that Z's too frail. However, Togekiss seems fit for the role as its much bulkier, though Rapid Spin or Wish is required.

Togekiss @ Choice Scarf
16 HP / 252 SAtk / 240 Spe
- Trick
- Nasty Plot
- Air Slash
- Aura Sphere / Roost

Togekiss is usually beaten by one of two methods - the opponent either switches in a Pokémon that doesn't mind taking attacks from Togekiss in the slightest to wear it down, or sends in something faster, either predicting and avoiding the paralysis or using something immune.
Click to expand...

This deals with both very well (the first are usually on stall teams, the second on offensive teams) in theory, right? You can Trick onto a stall team, come back later and set up. Or you can switch in on something, predict a switch and go for a 2-3HKO (yay flinch rate). Obviously this set is completely untested and it's not going to be in my first "serious" / laddering teams, but it doesn't seem completely nonsensical on a more bulky Pokémon.
 
Alright, I think I just finished my special Slaking set.

dpmfa289.png

Slaking @ Choice Specs
Modest
252 SpA / 252 Spe / 6 HP
Thunderbolt / Thunder
Ice Beam / Blizzard
Focus Blast / Hyper Beam
Flamethrower / Fire Blast
This set is mostly about surprise. BoltBeam offers good coverage, hitting SE against notable threats. Focus Blast is the most powerful special attack besides hyper beam, but offers better coverage. Flamethrower for those pesky bronzongs, doing about 65% to the Smogon standard. All of the elemental moves more powerful forms can be used, but are not recommended. Hyper Beam is mentioned if needed, but is not very helpful because of the turn setup with no switching out. Max speed to tie with other neutral base 100's, max special attack for obvious reasons.
 
M4GNITUDE said:
373salamence.png

Salamence @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 198 HP/160 SpD/152 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpAtk)
- Roost
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw

Okay, okay. Hear me out on this one. I know seems odd, but listen here. This is my version of the "BulkyMence." Now, I gave it SpecialDefense EVs for Ice Beam suport, and I don't need Defensive EVs because of what Intimidate can do. After one DD, I rerach 410 speed, and 553 attack. Couple that with instant recovery, and a temporary loss of x4 ice weak(to give it x2), this thing is a bulky sweeper. Earthquake and Dragon Claw for coverage.

Here is a vid of it(at 2:54)

http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=NUuEwRmnQss
Click to expand...

This seems like a worse version of bulky Light Screen Dragonite, but with non-floating steel coverage, and you could just run a Magnezone for those.
 
Azelf can run a viable Physical set now ^_^ go Platinum tutor moves.
Azelf @ Choice Band
Zen Headbutt
Ice Punch
ThunderPunch/Fire Punch
Explosion

First slot is STAB, second and third slot moves for coverage (ThunderPunch hits Gyarados, Fire Punch hits Steels, particularly Bronzong) Explosion is for MASSIVE DAMAGE.
Other options include Trick (very useful to mess with Blissey), U-Turn (obvious). In which case, 4 moveslot syndrome strikes again =/
 
I don't think Trick is necessary on CB Azelf, as Zen Headbutt would deal very significant damage, a 2HKO I believe. Now Choice Scarf Azelf with Trick and Nasty Plot would be fun.
 
M4GNITUDE said:
373salamence.png

Salamence @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 198 HP/160 SpD/152 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpAtk)
- Roost
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw

Okay, okay. Hear me out on this one. I know seems odd, but listen here. This is my version of the "BulkyMence." Now, I gave it SpecialDefense EVs for Ice Beam suport, and I don't need Defensive EVs because of what Intimidate can do. After one DD, I rerach 410 speed, and 553 attack. Couple that with instant recovery, and a temporary loss of x4 ice weak(to give it x2), this thing is a bulky sweeper. Earthquake and Dragon Claw for coverage.

Here is a vid of it(at 2:54)

http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=NUuEwRmnQss
Click to expand...

Unfortunately walled by the ever-present zong. Brick break over EQ for unresisted? of is the extra power worth it?
 
For all of you who depended on Garchomp defensively...

...check out this Flygon EV spread.

I know, it's offensively retarded compared to Garchomp, but it still 2HKOs Tyranitar with Earthquake, and OHKOs Lucario. It's 10% tougher than 6/0 Garchomp, and it has Roost too!

Anyways, here is the set.

330.png


Flygon @ Leftovers
Jolly Nature
204 HP / 16 Atk / 214 Def / 76 Spe

Earthquake
Roost
U-Turn /Fire Punch
Toxic / Fire Punch


Thanks to Roost and Earthquake, this thing makes a decent CBtar switch in, but where it really shines is against Lucario and Heatran. Thanks to the EV spread, it is bulky enough to take large beatings from these pokemon, but has enough punch to do something back.


The last two slots are up to you. Fire Punch gives you an answer to Skarmory and Bronzong. Toxic will wear down anything that repeated Earthquakes cannot, save for Poisons and Steels, which Earthquake should help against anyways. U-Turn is an excellent scouting move, and if you misjudge your opponent and find out they have a Tyraniboah, you can still break it's sub and send in an Ice resist to chase it off.

It's decent defensive typing gives it resistance to the Edge/Quake combo, as well as Fire attacks. Immunity to most forms of passive damage and Stealth Rock resistance keeps it around longer. Electric Immunity is nice to have as well, especially when trying to wear down annoyers like Togekiss with Toxic.

Here are some damage calculations:

-Tyranitar's 604 attack Stone Edge on Flygon: 36-43%
-Tyranitar's 604 attack Crunch on Flygon: 59-69%.
-Tyranitar's Jolly DD LO Crunch on Flygon: 70-82%.

This attack should be avoided, but you can survive it with health to spare.


-Lucario's +2 Extremespeed: 59-70%.
-Lucario's +2 Bullet Punch: 44-52%.
-Lucario's Close Combat: 67-78%.

The only way Lucario can win is if it Close Combats followed by Extreme Speed, rolling above average damage both times.

-Modest Heatran's Fire Blast: 36-43%
-Modest Heatran's Hidden Power Grass: 28-34%
-Modest Heatran's Hidden Power Ice: OHKO
-Modest Heatran's Dragon Pulse: 73-86%
-Modest Heatran's Explosion: 79-93%

Makes a pretty good switch-in to Heatran if you don't have anything better, or if you are unsure if they are going to Earth Power your own Heatran. Only Hidden Power Ice can take you down.

-Calm Mind Jirachi's Psychic: 36-42%
-Calm Mind Jirachi's +1 Psychic: 53-62%

Those annoying Sub CM Jirachi can be chased off all the time, provided you act quickly! Smart Roosting can ensure you have enough health to do it repatedly. If you don't switch in immediately, the faster CM Jirachi might beat you, so always respond with Flygon ASAP.

-Togekiss' Air Slash: 30-35%

This was a pleasant surprise. With Thunderwave immunity and higher speed, you can come in and chase it off, provided you can Toxic Stall it. Taking on Nasty Plot versions is suicide.

-Blissey's 40 SpA Ice Beam: 77-91%
-Donphan's Ice Shard: 36-42%
-Mamoswine's LO Ice Shard: 91-107%
-Gliscor's Ice Fang: 48-56%
-Hippowdon's Ice Fang: 55-65%

Just in case the situation should ever arise, you can survive weak Ice attacks. You need 254 SpA to OHKO with Ice Beam, 409 to OHKO with Ice Punch, and 762 to OHKO with Ice Shard. For STAB Ice moves, you'll need 169, 272, and 508 respectively.



I'm not trying to be a Flygon fanboy, but after remembering all the times I switched Garchomp into Tyranitar, Jirachi, Lucario and Heatran, I felt it needed to be mentioned, especially since Flygon gets Roost.
 
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