CAP 5 CAP 5 - Part 9 (Ability Poll 3)

[Frosty]

I voted for Technician.

Rockmon may be fast and all, but you need to remember that of all 9 or so priority moves, 4 hit this guy SE (mach punch, Vaccum Wave, bullet punch and aqua jet) and they are capable of hitting really hard. Considering how the common users of said moves are very powerful attackers (hi Scizor, Metagross, Machamp, Azumarill, Breloom, Lucario, etc) and somewhat bulky, you can be sure as hell that the Earth Power/Rock Move/sub/CM or whatever set will have a fairly considerable number of counter and/or checks. Add Special walls like Lax and Blissey, bulky waters, Revenankh and some other pokes and you will get a pretty big number of checks around. Now what is the point of this? well, if we want to have a sweeper, you will need to give it the ability to at least fight back against some of said checks and counters, and the best way to do it, IMO, is with the versatility of Hidden Power. Technician gives Hidden Power 90 BP, making it more powerful, which is why I am voting for it. Simple as that.

But that is me. I've always liked the idea of a special sweeper that could abuse technician and hidden power and my vote reflects that.


As for Ancient Power, I'd much rather discard it from the movepool if it is that much of a problem honestly. I mean, Lunatone is a "rock special sweeper" (well, uh, a very weak and slow one, but still) and it doesn't get Ancient Power. Absolutely nothing stops us from removing ancientpower from our technician rock special sweeper.

 

[tennisace]

Can you prove that that set can beat a Bronzong one on one? Seriously...I actually want to know how it would beat.

It would come damn close, since Gyro Ball only has 8 PP. Keep on subbing and CM whenever possible.

 

[Deck Knight]

LS Blissey? Like I said before, there are barely any Blissey, and I can assure you that almost none of them use Light Screen at all. I don't like the idea of any Fire move bar HP Fire, since it would get boosted by Technician if it gets it. Really, why remove counters? Whats so bad about having Bronzong, Scizor, Lucario and Metagross laugh in its face? It doesn't need a fire move to survive at all. You could even run Sub/CM/Earth Power/Power Gem and STILL beat Bronzong. Prove to me that this needs a Fire move, an Ice move, or any non-stab special move bar Earth Power.

Zuh? I was arguing against a fire move and for checks to Rockmon. I don't think i even mentioned Ice moves.

Bronzong would still beat it unless it got Overheat, as one of yDG's illustrations depicted. Earthquake or Gyro Ball easily break Subs. Only if it gets Overheat will it be remotely threatening to any of those pokemon (well, not Lucario, who couldn't take an EP well.)

Although if you do want a glimpse into my mind, I was thinking about Shock Wave and Tri Attack >_>

 

[DarthVader317]

I voted Levitate. Because it is a speedy frail attacker, the safe switch in would help it a lot, and it gets rid of one weakness.

 

[Goodbar]

That's the point I'm trying to get accross. You and darkie, among others, probably would still vote levitate and that's not surprising. My advice for the people that Kira/gorm Mentioned is: you should vote for the ability as if it were Cadalbolg's art, or really as if it had no art or Misingno's sprite. Don't let the fact that it "looks like it's levitating" cloud your judgment. I'm not trying to diss levitate, it really is a great choice either way...

I disagree that art absolutely doesn't matter, just because pokemon generally have abilities/moves based on their art. The art serves as something that narrows your choices down. If caladbolg's art had been chosen, there's no way we woulda had levitate on this list and shouldn't have either. So when you're voting for art, you're indirectly voting against certain moves/abilities
EDIT: If you're going to argue against this by naming pokemon with weird moves/abilities please don't, that's why I said generally...

 

[nihilist]

wait, why dont we just give it both abilities?

 

[armogohma]

We may, we may not. The thing is, many people voting for levitate are doing so specifically because they don't want technician.

 

[darkie]

I'm not sure if you know, but there is a process for this. The second ability will be voted on soon enough.

Let's not get offtopic, now.

 

[TAY]

Come on guys, the base 135 Ancientpower is really good, though probably not destructive to the metagame. The thing that really turns me against technician (and presumably the reason that there are no special-based technician users to date) is that it would get Base 90 Hidden Powers. With higher Speed and SpAtk than Raikou, and a SpDef boost in Sandstorm, I think it would be a big mistake to give this thing a 90 base power move of any type.

Levitate, by contrast, is very useful due to its high speed, especially considering the popularity of Earthquake. However, it doesn't give us a pokemon with potentially zero safe switch-ins.

 

[Bungalow Bill]

Levitate would get rid of one weakness and it's floating. levitate just makes sense to me. I wouldn't mind getting technician as a secondary ability.

 

[bojangles]

Voting technician. People are getting all uppity because he's getting a 135 BP move after STAB and Boost. Salamence gets a 180 BP move. Hippowdon gets a 150 move. Breloom gets a 225 BP move. Need I say more?

 

[Kira]

Voting technician. People are getting all uppity because he's getting a 135 BP move after STAB and Boost. Salamence gets a 180 BP move. Hippowdon gets a 150 move. Breloom gets a 225 BP move. Need I say more?

Hmm except those Pokemon aren't using those moves off 120 base atk/special atk, and base 130 speed. Those moves also don't have a 10% chance to increase all stats. Meanwhile in Salamences case those moves have negative effects such as lowering his sp.atk two stages, or locking him into a move leaving him open for a revenge kill.

 

[Goodbar]

Voting technician. People are getting all uppity because he's getting a 135 BP move after STAB and Boost. Salamence gets a 180 BP move. Hippowdon gets a 150 move. Breloom gets a 225 BP move. Need I say more?

Don't you think this post is a tad ignorant =[

 

[Not Scicky]

Woah, slow down 1059860. "Base 135 STAB" is not true. It will be a base 90 STAB move.

+45 from the STAB, so it's 135 :S

Voted levitate, simply because I can

 

[bojangles]

Sorry, I was just trying to say that in the grand scheme of things, 135 BP isn't as much as it sounds.

 

[Torterra]

Technician.

I like the possibilities that are presented by this ability. Levitate is nice and all, but I'm not too worried about switching in, since I see this as more of a late-game sweeper than something that'd lead a battle or try to eliminate counters mid-game.

 

[zxn666]

Cmon people! Vote more for technician!!! There's a tie now!!!

And besides, a 135BP move after STAB for the stongest move on this pokemon is lol. It's not that huge! And besides, 120 SPA is not as strong as it sounds since this pokemon does not get dual STAB, so even a 90 base power Hidden Power would not be overly powerful.

And besides, Blissey walls this guy to no end. As long as it does not have explosion, this guy will get nowhere past Blissey.

 

[darkie]

How about after an AncientPower boost or two? Blissey doesn't do so well anymore!

 

[the_artic_one]

Honestly, I want this to be able to beat Blissey.

I can't think of any special sweepers in OU who can't get by Blissey (usually by exploding, but still). Inability to get past Blissey usually regulates you to BL.

 

[Darkflagrance]

How about after an AncientPower boost or two? Blissey doesn't do so well anymore!

Max Sp Atk, Choice Specs, Technician, +1 Ancientpower on CAP 5 does:

295-348 (41%-48%) damage to Bold, no Sp def ev's Blissey.

126-149 (37%-44%) to Standard Bronzong (I used the first one off the Strategydex)

170-201 (52%-62%) to the first Magnezone set on Smogon (172 hp, 84 spdef modest)

Even with the Ancientpower boost, it does not do 50% to those walls with Ancientpower.

With Overheat on Bronzong:

300-354 (88%-104%)

I used http://pokedex-br.info/damage.html.

 

[Fishin]

Depending on movepool, it could have several potential ways to beat Blissey. Sub/Focus Punch (note that 4/0 CaP 5's Substitutes will NOT be broken in a Sandstorm by 148 sp atk Blissey's Ice Beam), Sub/CM, Sub/NP (though I'm really not sure about it getting NP), and of course Explosion. Ancientpower most likely won't do it alone, though.

 

[Goodbar]

Honestly, I want this to be able to beat Blissey.

I can't think of any special sweepers in OU who can't get by Blissey (usually by exploding, but still). Inability to get past Blissey usually regulates you to BL.

Gonna have to lolwut this, there's starmie magnezone and hell shaymin-s off the top of my head...don't put blissey on a pedestal ?_?. Anyways explosion will likely make its way onto this guy if blissey really grinds your gears, I wouldn't be against it anyways

 

[the_artic_one]

Gonna have to lolwut this, there's starmie magnezone and hell shaymin-s off the top of my head...don't put blissey on a pedestal ?_?. Anyways explosion will likely make its way onto this guy if blissey really grinds your gears, I wouldn't be against it anyways

Starmie is used more often as a spinner than as a special sweeper (62% had rapid spin in august), Magnezone is more of a wall, and Shaymin does beat blissey if he gets lucky.

Blissey is the most common special wall in the game, being unable to deal with common strategies = lose.

 

[Hyra]

Depending on movepool, it could have several potential ways to beat Blissey. Sub/Focus Punch (note that 4/0 CaP 5's Substitutes will NOT be broken in a Sandstorm by 148 sp atk Blissey's Ice Beam), Sub/CM, Sub/NP (though I'm really not sure about it getting NP), and of course Explosion. Ancientpower most likely won't do it alone, though.

Blissey can still run Seismic Toss, which will always break the Sub. But I don't see this getting Calm Mind, let alone Nasty Plot.

 

[Goodbar]

The thing is every pokemon isn't meant to be able to beat every pokemon. Like heracross is an awesome physical sweeper but is almost completely walled by gliscor. Get a lure, kill blissey, and let rockmon sweep