Just a standard team this time.

Tok09

I've been testing this team on Shoddy and I have been getting a few wins and losses. I have come here to get help. So here's the team:

Electivire @ Expert Belt
Motor Drive
Evs: 6 HP/ 252 Atk/ 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
-Cross Chop
-Earthquake
-Ice Punch
-Thunder Punch

I'm still not too sure about this as a lead. Although, it's been working fine.



Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Water Absorb
EVs: 188 HP/ 252 Def/ 70 Sp.Def
Bold Nature
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Wish
-Toxic

I love it as a Special Wall. I prefer the 70 Sp.Def EVs to help it defend against Special Attacks. Toxic to help me in a Stall War. Surf and Ice Beam are very good on it. And Wish to help Vaporeon and it's team mates.



Gallade @ Leftovers
Steadfast
EVs: 192 HP/ 92 Atk/ 200 Def/ 26 Sp.Def
Careful Nature
-Bulk Up
-Drain Punch
-Psycho Cut
-Shadow Sneak

A 'bulky' Gallade set made by friend. After a few Bulk Ups it becomes a beast. Gallade has good Sp.Def so it can comfortably take Special hits while Bulking up. Bulk Up also gets Gallade's poor defence up. Drain Punch for healing and STAB. Psycho Cut for STAB aswell and Shadow Sneak for priority to make up for Gallades poor Speed.



Gliscor @ Leftovers
Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP/ 252 Def/ 6 Atk
Impish Nature
-Aerial Ace
-Earthquake
-Roost
-Stealth Rock

This is my Physical wall and the typing with Vaporeon is great. Sets up some Stealth Rocks while it's in the field. Roost for recovery.



Lucario @ Life Orb
Steadfast
EVs: 252 Sp.Atk/ 252 Spd/ 6 HP.
Timid Nature
-Aura Sphere
-Dark Pulse
-Hidden Power [Ice]
-Psychic

This set has somewhat decency. Since most Lucarios are Physical this one is a great suprise. Life Orb for that bit of added power. I use it over Choice Specs because I already have a choice set on my team and the movement of attacks is needed since I usually find myself being walled.



Salamence @ Choice Scarf
Intimidate
EVs: 160 Atk/ 238 Sp.Atk/ 112 Spd
Rash Nature
-Draco Meteor
-Flamethrower
-Brick Break
-Aqua Tail

The mixed sweeper of my team. Just enough EVs to outrun Jolteon, Aerodactyl and Crobat, all max speed, and anyone slower. Draco Meteor has a high chance to OHKO Jolteon and Crobat. Aqua Tail deals with Aerodactyl with a small chance of survival (barring a Focus Sash).



OU Threat List:
Aerodactyl: Vaporeon, Electivire.
Alakazam: Gallade.
Azelf: Gallade, Lucario.
Breloom: Gallade, Lucario.
Dugtrio: Salamence, Vaporeon.
Electivire: Electivire (since most are Adamant and mine is Jolly).
Gallade: Gallade, Gliscor.
Gengar: A bit of a problem, but it will eventually go down.
Gyarados: Electivire.
Heatran: Electivire, Gliscor, Vaporeon.
Heracross: Gliscor, Salamence, Lucario, Gallade.
Infernape: Electivire, Gliscor, Vapoeron.
Lucario: Electivire, Gilscor, possibly Lucario.
Metagross: Salemence burns this piece of scrap metal.
Porygon-Z: Electivire, Lucario, Gallade, Salamence.
Salamence: Electivire, Vapoeron, Lucario, Salamence (unless theirs is also Choice Scarfing).
Scizor: Gliscor, Lucario, Salamence.
Tyranitar: Electivire, Vaporeon, Gliscor, Gallade, Lucario, Salamence. (All)
Weavile: Electivre, Gallade, Lucario, Salamence (unless it has a Focus Sash)
Yanmega: Electivire, Vaporeon, Gliscor, Lucario, Salamence.


Oh and could someone tell me how to put pictures up? I don't know how to.
 
One of Electivire's main uses is to absorb thunderwave or an electric move. As a starter, that is impossible. And he has very little way in stopping your opponent set up SR etc whilst Electivire doesn't have the speed or attack to OHKO (or sash ruins it).

Vaporeon with Wish and Toxic needs Protect. Protect is still recommended without Toxic to act as a reliable healing move with wish. So get rid of Ice Beam or Toxic. You have a major Gyara weakness, after a DD, he sweeps your whole team. You need HP Electric as well (Surf, HP Electric, Wish, Protect). You may want to put the spcdef evs in spcatt, but you don't have a reliable spcwall (gallade lacks a recovery move and resistances). Once Salamance is gone, Skymin and Gengar sweeps your whole team.

Gallade sucks, he has no hlth or def to effectively use bulk up. shadow sneak has no STAB and consequently poor power. speed cripples lets down his sweeping cability and drain punch requires lots of bulk ups to be sufficient (and speed), which will never pay off.
The EVs spread is also insufficient, you'll gain more stats from Adamant than Careful.

Scarfmixmance would prefer Hydro Pump over Aqua Tail because the grounds you'll use it on have more Def. than Spcdef. And tar, well, that's why you have Brick Break. Fire Blast over Flamethrower for the power.

And your threat list is done poorly. Gyara + DD = gg. Skymin and Zapdos aren't even mentioned and sweep your whole team (Electivire, due to being a lead, will find a hard time absorbing Zapdos electric attack). Gengar is not handled well. Once Vaporeon dies, scarftran hurts, whose faster than Salamance and HP Ices him to death. Your team can't handly some of the most common threats. And Salamance can't reliable burn that Metagross because he can swap in on a Scarfed Draco meteor.
A lack of SR, a efficient lead and spcwall hurts.

Overall, a poor team. Sorry, but its true. Move electivire somewhere else, scrap that crappy gallade (i can't even look at it), have Scarftran to deal with those common OU threats. Maybe throw in a Gyara to work well with Electivire, but this isn't very important, the other things are.
 
Okay, do you have any suggestions as a lead? I'll get rid of Gallade and put a Gyarados in, possibly as a lead. And who should I replace Vaporeon with? Oh and sorry, this was the first time I have done a threat list.
 
chill man its okay, i'll try to help out too. electivire can work with gyarados, its still a combo that quite a few people fall for, but electivire as a lead ruins the effect, and the opponent will definitely be wary throwing random electric attacks or thunderwave around.

first lets fix something up, gliscor doesnt have sandstream, sorry bud, but if it had, i'd use it over hippowdon anyday.

okay lets see, as a lead, tauntrados seems pretty standard, but make it offensive, as with the many trickster leads, tauntrados can actually take advantage of the band or the scarf that is given to him to start a midgame sweep. electrados or gyaravire whatever you wanna call it, you could stick that combo into your team too, looks cool to me. although try special electivire or mixvire, you'd be surprised at how many people underestimate electivire's special sweeping ability.

with this, and proper prediction, its possible to play around the threat of zapdos, using gyarados to nag a speed boost to electivire, and proceed to ice punch or HP ice it away. neither of the two are shaymin counters though, but they're only two parts of your team.

vaporeon is very nice, as an overall tank due to its amazing HP, toxic is good for a change of pace, but with your team doesnt look toooo stall. it does help with blissey though so i dunno what you want. throw protect over toxic for vaporeon to stay around longer if you find its dying too fast (although its quite hard to kill vappy off so fast)

gliscor as a physical wall is fantastic. It is pretty much standard though, so i won't argue here.

darknessmalice is right on the fact that gallade is not good, if you want a proper physical sweeper, try out heracross, with night slash it can nab incoming WoWs from Rotom, who i see you'll have a lot of trouble against, and KO rotom with Night Slash i think, i havent done the damage calcs, but i've tried hera on my salachi celetran team and every time i meet a rotom, it does it for me, and not one rotom has switched out from my heracross, due to the fact that they fear pursuit, so gallade can be scrapped for that, band or scarf, and since you have two choicers, utilise vaporeon and gliscor to switch between the moves. (I strongly suggest this.)

then theres lucario and salamence, placing both on the team that i've talked about so far will make 7 pokes, and thats not good. to add a viable special sweeper into your team, try subsalac porygonz, CM jirachi, specsmence, anything that takes your fancy, as they all do the job better than lucario, IMO. keeping either lucario or salamence on your team will also do fine, just make them special, as your team desperately needs a dependable special sweeper (unless you made electivire special, but hes not overly dependable)

thats kinduff the end of advice for your team, i really hope i helped. oh and looking at your threat list, dugtrio cant really be "countered" as something has to switch in to counter it, and nothing can switch in because of arena trap (read that somewhere, cant remember where), some of your answers to the threats arent actually counters to those threats, for example, your lucario cant counter yanmega, as it can protect and HP ground for the KO. its okay if you dont put a threat list when you're unsure, so yeah. really hope i helped, coz i typed a lot.
 
Tok01 said:
Salamence @ Choice Scarf
Intimidate
EVs: 208 Atk/ 148 Spd/ 152 SpAtk
Rash Nature
-Draco Meteor
-Flamethrower
-Brick Break
-Outrage

The mixed sweeper of my team. Just enough EVs to outrun Jolteon, Aerodactyl and Crobat, all max speed, and anyone slower. Draco Meteor has a high chance to OHKO Jolteon and Crobat. Aqua Tail deals with Aerodactyl with a small chance of survival (barring a Focus Sash).

Are aerodactyls such a big threat? Anyway outrage is an OHKO. With this spread you outspeed adamant scarfcross, it hits 393 Atk, 272 Spd, 293 SpAtk, so outrage will be the most powerful attack.

Oh and could someone tell me how to put pictures up? I don't know how to. Go to http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/and copy and paste sprites to the thread or go to http://www.arkeis.com/pokemonfactory.htm and copy then paste the pics
Click to expand...

Hope i helped! B-)
 
@ Absol Lover. Why have both Draco Meteor and Outrage? I don't really see the need for both.

@Ice Time. Mixvire and Specsmence seem good to me. But I'm still Gengar and Gyarados weak. However, I could use Slowbro as a physical wall, and Umbreon as a Special wall. It solves those problems. So making my team Gyarados, Mixvire, Gliscor/ Slowbro, Specsmence and Vaporeon/ Umbreon. Still not sure as a final member. Scarftran for the Metagross weak? Please help me.
 
Okay...
If you need any help for your lead, I shall try to help. I think the main point of the Electrivire is a Physical Sweeper. However, there are some very great other Physical Sweepers. For example, you could you Infernape as a lead- using Fake Out to destroy Azelf. Then you could use him to set up Stealth Rock if you desire. However, you could also use a Dual-Screen Bronzong lead. Bronzong allows you to set up a Stealth Rock if you wish, or you could just go with Hypnosis, Explosion, Light Screen, And Reflect.
Your item of choose would probably be Light Clay. Light Screen is a somewhat benefit for your team as it allows Salamence and Gliscor to sweep without the fear of an Ice Beam
 
Well actually I've decided to use Gyarados as a lead. Can anyone reply on the combination of Pokemon I stated before?
 
Draco Meteor + Outrage is sometime used because Outrage is insanely powerful against opponents with weaker Special Defence. Actually, with STAB, it has the same power as a super effective Aqua Tail:

120 x 1.5 = 180
90 x 2 = 180

but without the shaky accuracy. It's also stronger against Blissey than Brick Break (the main reason we used BB in Diamond and Pearl), so I'd suggest putting Earthquake over Brick Break for the added power (although it's weaker against Tyrannitar).

Draco Meteor, on the other hand, has even more base power, and allows quick switches after its use, instead of being locked. It's extremely effective against physically defensive tanks, like Donphan, Swampert and Dusknoir.

The main difference, however, is in their use: Draco Meteor is used in hit and run, in the beginning of the match when you want to scout. Once you have a clear idea of your opponent's weakened team, you can use Outrage to clean up the last couple of Pokes in a row, without having to switch between attacks or having to fear, say, Skarmory or Bronzong.
 
I don't mean to be rude, but just throwing some Pokemon together doesn't exactly work. I would suggest not using a Gyrados as a lead. Gyrados was a great lead in the past, but with the metafame now changing, he is not a great lead at all. Right now, the goal of a lead is to set up Stealth Rock, which has been standard for any team that isn't stall. Leads should focus on stopping your opponent from setting up a free Stealth Rock, provide as much support to your team as it possibly can, and then cause as much damage as it possibly can to other team. For example, about a month ago, the Focus Sash Azelf lead would always set up Stealth Rock first turn, then if the Sash was already negated, Explode. However, if the sash wasn't negated yet, it would attack as much as it could, then blow up. This lead would cause massive damage to the opponents team, and would have a 100% of setting up a Stealth Rock and usually killing one team member. I would suggest the bronzing lead like above, or use an Infernale lead, solving your Metagross problem. As you can see, I believe you should swap Infernape for your Gyrados, then use an Offensive Gyrados as a Sweeper. Lastly, I believe you should use Umvbreon with Gliscor, enabling you to have 2 Fighting Resistances, while having 1 Fighting weakness.

Good Luck building your Team!
 
Thanks both of you! ^^ Although, if Gliscor is on my team, the Metagross problem is solved. And I think I might go with the Bronzong or Azelf lead.
 
Tok01 said:
The mixed sweeper of my team. Just enough EVs to outrun Jolteon, Aerodactyl and Crobat, all max speed, and anyone slower. Draco Meteor has a high chance to OHKO Jolteon and Crobat. Aqua Tail deals with Aerodactyl with a small chance of survival (barring a Focus Sash).
Click to expand...
you'd be better off using Stone Edge for that reason and many others (gyaragyara mainly)
 
smeargle said:
Gyrados was a great lead in the past, but with the metafame now changing, he is not a great lead at all. Right now, the goal of a lead is to set up Stealth Rock, which has been standard for any team that isn't stall. Leads should focus on stopping your opponent from setting up a free Stealth Rock, provide as much support to your team as it possibly can, and then cause as much damage as it possibly can to other team.
Click to expand...

How would you say that? How can a gyarados be a no good lead anymore. That's right, gyarados leads were more effective in the past, but they are still good now. You can't say he's not a good lead at all.
Probably what makes gyarados less-effective as a lead is the add of the move Trick for quite a bit of pokemon. But still, he can taunt bronzong leads and stop them from tricking him/setting SR up. He also has Intimidate, something that helps him very much. He still is a good lead.

Unfortunatley, however, if you plan using gyarados, you'll become very weak to SR. You will also be running two water types, which is strongly unrecommened. It is good for you to lead with infernape, as mentioned above. You can set up SR, negate Focus sashes, and deal some bit of damage to opoonents pokemon. Pokemon like trickgar won't be a problem anymore, either. With that, toss gallade, and go with both electivire and infernape. As you have seen, rotoms forms have been like on every single team, so electric attacks are VERY common. Electivire largely benefits from this, just go with an adamant nature, since electricity will be boosting your speed anyway.

As far as vaporeon is concerened, you can run HP electric with it, since gyarados can be very problomatic after even a single DD. You can go with a set like this:

Surf
Protect/Toxic
Wish/Toxic
HP electric

Wish and protect can always be good, especially for scouting. Protect and toxic stalls fine. WIsh and toxic may work together. Use Hp electric over ice beam, since you have ice attacks on both luke and electivire.

Luke, gliscor, and salamence all appear good, but you switch SR with knock off/Taunt if you run Leadape. Also, as previously mentioned, use Outrage over aquatail. Having two moves with the same type from both sides of the spectrum can always be useful. You can also use this to your opportunity, since some people might not expect a mixed salamence.

Thanks for your time, and hope this helped, later!
 
Thanks for your help, but I'm relly changing some of that team to solve Gangar, Gyarados and Metagross problems. Ape solves the Meta problem.
 
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