It came as such a disappointment to me, it seems Skymin can't be used on wifi and whenever I put my skymin in the box, its stats and forme changes back to land which really sucks. I didn't complete the game, so I am not sure if its to do with that or not but from what it looks like, game freak already banned the beast from online play lol. I dont see why shoddy allows this pokemon to be used when it cant be used on wifi.
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Skymin Discussion Thread
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Shoddy impliments local wireless, not wi-fi
I see, that makes sense as this pokemon can be used on local wireless.
I guess the only time we will get to use skymin is either at a friend's house or at shoddy but they should have really not banned skymin from wifi *sigh*.
Registeel is common? I'm sorry but if that's really an argument you're going to use against Skymin being in OU, you may want to go back to the drawing board.
Ok, so you say that Skymin doesnt have a genuine counter (even though this is blatantly false, I'll play along). I would assume that this is because you are trying to make a case for it being Uber. However, then you say "counters alone should not determine skymins rankings". If not having counters doesnt determine a rank, then having counters shouldnt either...so basically your paragraph contradicts itself and cancels out.
Skymin has not had a "massive effect on the metagame", you cant just say something vague like that without evidence and make it true. Skymin has not had more impact than any other change Platinum brought. If we used something as vague as "impact on OU" to determine tier status, we would have to ban Bullet Punch Scizor too, since that is obviously having a massive effect on the metagame.
I have not changed my team from d/p to platinum and the only pokemon ive lost to a skymin was because of a seed flare crit on my tyranitar that it needed to OHKO. How can you say that skymin had a massive effect on the game, when it entered OU, both the #1 and #2 most used pokemon have a 4x resistance to its STAB.
If you go with Life orb, meager defensive evs, and no roost and yeah-- salamence becomes a pretty frail pokemon. Change it to a crappy grass typing and you got a pretty weak bitch.
Salamence isn't frail because it is half Dragon-type, the best type in the game. In a sense, its huge list of resistances is its defense, not its actual stats. Salamence's "beefiness" comes from its typing. But when you add SR and LO and SS and unresisted damage, Salamence isn't exactly putting Skarmory out of a job.
Now, compare that to Skymin's Grass-typing, a type that has more weaknesses than resists. Chou is right, if anything, Skymin is overrated defensively.
Now, compare that to Skymin's Grass-typing, a type that has more weaknesses than resists. Chou is right, if anything, Skymin is overrated defensively.
I've been using skymin for a while and...
...it hasn't sweep as much as I thought (actually scarfmence and DD kingdra sweep more)...
...and it's still a gamble, due to being so frail with so much ice/fire/SR around: either you sweep... or get swept IF your seed flare/air slash barrage misses ONCE (heck, i've lost SO MANY games by missing with those moves on critical moments of the match that I ended using wide lens, and now I lack power to even OHKO with SE hits -.-)
so yeah, being frail + SR/T-wave weak + inaccurate moves = OU, at least for me.
...it hasn't sweep as much as I thought (actually scarfmence and DD kingdra sweep more)...
...and it's still a gamble, due to being so frail with so much ice/fire/SR around: either you sweep... or get swept IF your seed flare/air slash barrage misses ONCE (heck, i've lost SO MANY games by missing with those moves on critical moments of the match that I ended using wide lens, and now I lack power to even OHKO with SE hits -.-)
so yeah, being frail + SR/T-wave weak + inaccurate moves = OU, at least for me.
I don't know how you're setting up your SkyMin but mine works rather well with Seed Flare, Earth Power, Air Slash and HP-Ice, holding YACHE BERRY. Yache Berry helps me survive Weavile's Ice Shard and kill it with Earth Power, or Mamoswine, and kill it with Seed Flare.
A lot of things are T-Wave and SR weak, namingly Salamence.
There's so much Ice moves around, and Salamence is 4x weak to Ice, do you call him weak? You're just unlucky with misses. The likely hood of it not missing is high, so the chances are, it's going to sweep.
More people are more PREPARED for that thing than a DD Kingdra than that thing.
I use sub/EP/SF/AS, timid 252/252/4
Every time I miss, skymin is dead; yache sort of "protects" you if it's fresh, no SR, or weak ice attacks, BUT it does nothing against all those fire attacks, or if your skymin is already damaged due to SR or other switches (such as bulky waters surfs) And SR is almost always in play, so yache is hardly an assurance. and as I said before, with yache/wide lens you lack firepower for some critical OHKOS such as vaporeon -_-.
Oh, and guess what, EVERY time I try to flinchax blissey to death (with the spDef drop), I end up losing my skymin and bliss remains at 50%-80% health.
About mence, yes, he's strong despite his weaknesses, but would you dare to call him "uber"?, same goes for skymin, it is a strong pokemon but I don't think it is uber. That was what I was stating with my last post.
Yeah, perhaps I'm unlucky, after so many games played losing due to luck, but isn't that sort of the opposite of chomp? (with him, luck factor was BY your side, not AGAINST you).
So, after playing with Shaymin-s for a short while, here's what it appears like:
Shaymin-s pretty much guarantees a kill if it switches in safely. Either the pokemon it's up against dies to a seed flare, or whatever "counter" they switch to eats a seed flare on the switch-in, suffers a massive special defense drop, and then dies to the next attack.
Ice shard can hit Shaymin-s before he gets his attack in, yes. Unfortunately, the three most used ice shard users (Donphan, Weavile, and Mamoswine) are either too fragile (weavile) or weak to seed flare + have fairly bad special defenses (Mamo and donphan). Additionally, donphan's Ice Shard doesn't even OHKO, even with max attack, because it doesn't have STAB. Basically, it's impossible to switch these pokemon into Shaymin, meaning the "strategy" is to let whatever Shaymin switched into die, and then revenge kill.
The only reliable counter is Max Speed Jolly Scarftran, as the combination of Jolly, Choice Scarf and max speed EVs allows him to outpseed the Skymin, and Fire/Steel allows for double resistance to Seed Flare, meaning there's no way he'll get OHKO'd, unless he is at a pathetic amount of life to begin with.
Dragonite also stands somewhat of a chance, as he also double resists the flare, and inner focus prevents Skymin from flinchhaxing him to death. Again, max speed with a positive speed nature will allow him to outspeed as well, and he can pack Ice or Fire moves to deal the KO in return. Salamence is in the same boat, except he has lower special defense and lacks inner focus, meaning he ONLY works Scarfed.
In short, Skymin seems like he is warping the meta a little. Just about everyone is required to have at least one of the above (scarfed) counters on their team (and most go with heatran, as he also serves the duty of absorbing the fire/ice attack aimed at their own Skymin) or they lose at least one pokemon to him. I'm not sure if this is an uber-worthy offense, but I'd put my weight behind the "ban" movement.
Shaymin-s pretty much guarantees a kill if it switches in safely. Either the pokemon it's up against dies to a seed flare, or whatever "counter" they switch to eats a seed flare on the switch-in, suffers a massive special defense drop, and then dies to the next attack.
Ice shard can hit Shaymin-s before he gets his attack in, yes. Unfortunately, the three most used ice shard users (Donphan, Weavile, and Mamoswine) are either too fragile (weavile) or weak to seed flare + have fairly bad special defenses (Mamo and donphan). Additionally, donphan's Ice Shard doesn't even OHKO, even with max attack, because it doesn't have STAB. Basically, it's impossible to switch these pokemon into Shaymin, meaning the "strategy" is to let whatever Shaymin switched into die, and then revenge kill.
The only reliable counter is Max Speed Jolly Scarftran, as the combination of Jolly, Choice Scarf and max speed EVs allows him to outpseed the Skymin, and Fire/Steel allows for double resistance to Seed Flare, meaning there's no way he'll get OHKO'd, unless he is at a pathetic amount of life to begin with.
Dragonite also stands somewhat of a chance, as he also double resists the flare, and inner focus prevents Skymin from flinchhaxing him to death. Again, max speed with a positive speed nature will allow him to outspeed as well, and he can pack Ice or Fire moves to deal the KO in return. Salamence is in the same boat, except he has lower special defense and lacks inner focus, meaning he ONLY works Scarfed.
In short, Skymin seems like he is warping the meta a little. Just about everyone is required to have at least one of the above (scarfed) counters on their team (and most go with heatran, as he also serves the duty of absorbing the fire/ice attack aimed at their own Skymin) or they lose at least one pokemon to him. I'm not sure if this is an uber-worthy offense, but I'd put my weight behind the "ban" movement.
Generally, I'll have a priority move abuser as well, usually Scizor. Scizor double resists SR and bypasses flinch with Bullet Punch. LO Bullet Punch is a 2HKO on a 4Hlth 0 Def. neutral nature Skymin. Swapping in on an Air Slash (and taking another one) does hurt though, it's in the same boat as Dragonite. Usually, Scizor + Heatran + prediction (it's very silly the amount of times I see Heatran swap in as I use Sub) can lead to Skymin's demise. Forcing it out piles up the SR damage.
Wish also seems to work fairly well with Skymin, so she can heal off that SR damage and still pose a big threat. Skymin without Sub can be paired with Vaporeon/Blissey, who wall Scarf Heatran, and then Wish and swap.
Erm have you guys ever heard of Bronzong who pretty much stops Skymin cold?
Seed Flare does 20.12% - 23.96% to a conservatively EVed 338 HP/ 320 SpDef (when Bronzong can reach 364 SpDef) and Skymin then needs 4 flinches in a row from Air Slash average damage to then kill it provided that you come in a Seed Flare SpDef drop.
So the chances of that happening is 0.68*0.6^4 = 0.088128 or less than 1 in 10. That would be like not switching your Tyranitar into Heatran because Fire Blast may burn it.
Have you also ever heard of Blissey? Seed Flare does 17.61% - 21.04% to 4 HP/ 252 SpD Bold Blissey. You need even more situational luck to beat Blissey than Bronzong.
Just to cover more bases, Modest Specs Skymin does 31% on average to the same Blissey so it needs the SpDef drop and near max damage twice to beat it. Even if we do go down that route, if we're going to say if Pokemon used X move instead of Y then pokemon Z can't stop it we would have banned Tyranitar, Infernape, Salamence etc, long ago, good luck switching the same "counter" for CB Mence (which 2HKOs everything anyway) into a Specs Draco Meteor.
One thing that people seem not to remember is that you can switch out of Seed Flare and that grass is a shit attacking type and 9 out of the 51 OU pokemon 4x resist its STAB.
I have posted this before, but it's really ridiculous when people state extremely situational circumstances to justify that it has no counter. The main issue with Skymin would probably be why does it harm the metagame not whether its too powerful.
Seed Flare does 20.12% - 23.96% to a conservatively EVed 338 HP/ 320 SpDef (when Bronzong can reach 364 SpDef) and Skymin then needs 4 flinches in a row from Air Slash average damage to then kill it provided that you come in a Seed Flare SpDef drop.
So the chances of that happening is 0.68*0.6^4 = 0.088128 or less than 1 in 10. That would be like not switching your Tyranitar into Heatran because Fire Blast may burn it.
Have you also ever heard of Blissey? Seed Flare does 17.61% - 21.04% to 4 HP/ 252 SpD Bold Blissey. You need even more situational luck to beat Blissey than Bronzong.
Just to cover more bases, Modest Specs Skymin does 31% on average to the same Blissey so it needs the SpDef drop and near max damage twice to beat it. Even if we do go down that route, if we're going to say if Pokemon used X move instead of Y then pokemon Z can't stop it we would have banned Tyranitar, Infernape, Salamence etc, long ago, good luck switching the same "counter" for CB Mence (which 2HKOs everything anyway) into a Specs Draco Meteor.
One thing that people seem not to remember is that you can switch out of Seed Flare and that grass is a shit attacking type and 9 out of the 51 OU pokemon 4x resist its STAB.
I have posted this before, but it's really ridiculous when people state extremely situational circumstances to justify that it has no counter. The main issue with Skymin would probably be why does it harm the metagame not whether its too powerful.
Unless you are suggesting a physical Scarftran, you meant Timid.
And the point of banning Skymin, in my opinion, is whether or not it overcentralizes. You know when a metagame is overcentralized when all EVs are based on it. Remember when Garchomp was here? Every pokemon's EV section said:
With these many EVs, it does minimum 50% to Garchomp. Or, with these EVs, it can take two hits from Garchomp, counting leftovers. Or, with these EVs, you'll always outspeed Max Neutral Garchomp. Or, with these EVs, your HP ice OHKOs non-yache chomp. Or, with these EVS, you outspeed adamant scarfchomp.
Almost every damn set said something like that about its EVs. And when the Platinum updates are up, the same thing will probably be happening with Skymin.
Here's the thing. For the most part, Speed EVs are based on speed benchmarks. Skymin represents the top benchmark in OU outside of Aerodactyl, Crobat, and Jolteon, which means that beating it is significant- you also beat everything else. Garchomp was a special case. Stuff like Starmie would run specific EVs for Garchomp because it was meant to be a Garchomp revenge killer / check. Remember that a ton of stuff used to be all about "outspeeding Adamant ScarfCross after +1" back in the day? Heracross isn't broken, now is it?
The idea that something with a new speed tier forces new speed benchmarks isn't ridiculous. It's actually pretty standard for a metagame. As for damage calculations, well, Skumin is weak to SR, so as long as SR is up its MHP is 75% (Garchomp RESISTED Stealth Rock), which means that hitting specific "killing Skymin" targets isn't actually a major aim.
As for what I think of Skymin? If it had something like Nasty Plot or Tail Glow, THEN I'd think it was broken. Garchomp wasn't broken just for hitting hard. It would stat up, survive with Yache, then HIT REALLY HARD. Skymin doesn't have the raw power (120 versus 130 Base SpA/Atk stats), nor the raw move power. Garchomp had a Base 120 STAB and a base 100 STAB, both in PHENOMENAL attacking types, both 100% accurate. Skymin has a Base 120 STAB and a Base 75 STAB, both in kinda mediocre attacking types. On top of that, they both have less than perfect accuracy, meaning a miss can ruin your day. Serene Grace is simply an overhyped ability. Togekiss is GREAT with Paraflinch for one main reason- When it does fail, Togekiss is still bulky enough to take the hit and keep on truckin. Skymin lacks that, so for the most part, if it doesn't flinch, it's dead.
Let's look at other sets. It can SubSeed, you say? Other things can do it FAR better, and have been doing it far longer than Skymin. Breloom, Celebi, and Sceptile all come to mind, and those sets aren't anything near broken. Substitute sets are kinda iffy too. The common set is going to be Seed Flare/Air Slash/Earth Power/Substitute. By the time you've come into SR and set up a sub, you're already at 50% HP. And that's only if your opponent LETS you set up a sub. If they break it, then you're at 50% HP with no sub, and will probably have to switch out, ruining the rest of your Subbing days.
Let's look at counters. Sets without Earth Power are rocked by Heatran, sets without HP Fire are rocked by Scizor, and pretty much every set gets walled by Bronzong and Blissey. Dragonite can come in on non HP Ice sets, resist Seed Flare 4x, and OHKO with pretty much any SE attack while not getting flinched due to Inner Focus. Mamoswine, Weavile, and Donphan all carry Ice Shard, a 4x effective attack. So what if Donphan's isn't STABed. SR has probably chipped off that 25%, which means it's now strong enough to put Skymin out of commission. Regice has nuts Special Defense, Clear Body to negate drops, and STAB Ice attacks to put Skymin down. Registeel resists everything but Earth Power/HP Fire, has the same Clear Body, and has Ice Punch to finish off said Skymin. If Skymin happens to catch a Thunder Wave from the likes of Blissey or Celebi, then it's permanently out of commission (Garchomp was immune to TWave). Pretty much every counter to Skymin with the exception of Dragonite and the Regis was high OU before Skymin popped up.
Skymin has also done a great deal good for the metagame, IMO. It's probably the most efficient way to combat Bulky Waters ever to appear in Pokemon, with high-powered STAB Grass attacks and a good Special Attack stat to back it up. The biggest effect from this is that it gives a minor boost to Offensive teams that had problems breaking through walls like Swampert. Sure, Shaymin-G had the same powerful STAB move, but it had a terrible movepool, mediocre offensive stats (100/100/100 just isn't cutting it), and the complete inability to hurt anything that resisted grass (read: a shitload).
Oddly enough, the most effective set I ever ran was a completely ridiculous one unheardof when Skymin first arrived on the scene: Choice Scarf Skymin. The upsides are endless. Earth Power beats +Speed Heatran expecting to outspeed me. Air Slash can flinch the hell out of stuff given enough luck. HP Ice eliminates Salamence, who I now outspeed even after a DD. Seed Flare also takes out Tyranitar, even if it gets 2 DDs. It also smacks Gyarados even after a DD. And way back yonder in that speed-infested metagame, Modest Scarf Shaymin-S outsped Timid Scarfgar and lead Deoxys-S, which meant that Deoxys-S would get at most Stealth Rock and nothing more, and nothing at all if I flinched with Air Slash. Trick Gengar would also often try and drop its Scarf on me only to see me outspeed and him get another scarf in return.
All in all, I think Skymin has a positive effect on the metagame. It's powerful, but not out of hand, and it has the strength needed to put the completely overused Bulky Waters in their place. It's not overly defensive, it's strong but not too strong, it has no reliable boosting move, and the majority of its hard counters are all high OU already, so it's not really centralizing the metagame around itself.
The idea that something with a new speed tier forces new speed benchmarks isn't ridiculous. It's actually pretty standard for a metagame. As for damage calculations, well, Skumin is weak to SR, so as long as SR is up its MHP is 75% (Garchomp RESISTED Stealth Rock), which means that hitting specific "killing Skymin" targets isn't actually a major aim.
As for what I think of Skymin? If it had something like Nasty Plot or Tail Glow, THEN I'd think it was broken. Garchomp wasn't broken just for hitting hard. It would stat up, survive with Yache, then HIT REALLY HARD. Skymin doesn't have the raw power (120 versus 130 Base SpA/Atk stats), nor the raw move power. Garchomp had a Base 120 STAB and a base 100 STAB, both in PHENOMENAL attacking types, both 100% accurate. Skymin has a Base 120 STAB and a Base 75 STAB, both in kinda mediocre attacking types. On top of that, they both have less than perfect accuracy, meaning a miss can ruin your day. Serene Grace is simply an overhyped ability. Togekiss is GREAT with Paraflinch for one main reason- When it does fail, Togekiss is still bulky enough to take the hit and keep on truckin. Skymin lacks that, so for the most part, if it doesn't flinch, it's dead.
Let's look at other sets. It can SubSeed, you say? Other things can do it FAR better, and have been doing it far longer than Skymin. Breloom, Celebi, and Sceptile all come to mind, and those sets aren't anything near broken. Substitute sets are kinda iffy too. The common set is going to be Seed Flare/Air Slash/Earth Power/Substitute. By the time you've come into SR and set up a sub, you're already at 50% HP. And that's only if your opponent LETS you set up a sub. If they break it, then you're at 50% HP with no sub, and will probably have to switch out, ruining the rest of your Subbing days.
Let's look at counters. Sets without Earth Power are rocked by Heatran, sets without HP Fire are rocked by Scizor, and pretty much every set gets walled by Bronzong and Blissey. Dragonite can come in on non HP Ice sets, resist Seed Flare 4x, and OHKO with pretty much any SE attack while not getting flinched due to Inner Focus. Mamoswine, Weavile, and Donphan all carry Ice Shard, a 4x effective attack. So what if Donphan's isn't STABed. SR has probably chipped off that 25%, which means it's now strong enough to put Skymin out of commission. Regice has nuts Special Defense, Clear Body to negate drops, and STAB Ice attacks to put Skymin down. Registeel resists everything but Earth Power/HP Fire, has the same Clear Body, and has Ice Punch to finish off said Skymin. If Skymin happens to catch a Thunder Wave from the likes of Blissey or Celebi, then it's permanently out of commission (Garchomp was immune to TWave). Pretty much every counter to Skymin with the exception of Dragonite and the Regis was high OU before Skymin popped up.
Skymin has also done a great deal good for the metagame, IMO. It's probably the most efficient way to combat Bulky Waters ever to appear in Pokemon, with high-powered STAB Grass attacks and a good Special Attack stat to back it up. The biggest effect from this is that it gives a minor boost to Offensive teams that had problems breaking through walls like Swampert. Sure, Shaymin-G had the same powerful STAB move, but it had a terrible movepool, mediocre offensive stats (100/100/100 just isn't cutting it), and the complete inability to hurt anything that resisted grass (read: a shitload).
Oddly enough, the most effective set I ever ran was a completely ridiculous one unheardof when Skymin first arrived on the scene: Choice Scarf Skymin. The upsides are endless. Earth Power beats +Speed Heatran expecting to outspeed me. Air Slash can flinch the hell out of stuff given enough luck. HP Ice eliminates Salamence, who I now outspeed even after a DD. Seed Flare also takes out Tyranitar, even if it gets 2 DDs. It also smacks Gyarados even after a DD. And way back yonder in that speed-infested metagame, Modest Scarf Shaymin-S outsped Timid Scarfgar and lead Deoxys-S, which meant that Deoxys-S would get at most Stealth Rock and nothing more, and nothing at all if I flinched with Air Slash. Trick Gengar would also often try and drop its Scarf on me only to see me outspeed and him get another scarf in return.
All in all, I think Skymin has a positive effect on the metagame. It's powerful, but not out of hand, and it has the strength needed to put the completely overused Bulky Waters in their place. It's not overly defensive, it's strong but not too strong, it has no reliable boosting move, and the majority of its hard counters are all high OU already, so it's not really centralizing the metagame around itself.
Right, thanks for those corrections (And the guy who pointed out that 'Tran wouldn't be "jolly").
The thing about Skymin (which is very reminiscient of Garchomp) is that, unlike something like Bulky Gyara or Salamence, there is no circumstance under which he can guarantee a sweep (A bulky gyara with 2-3 DDs in is all but unstoppable, and depending on how your opponent reacts to Gyara, this is an entirely possibly circumstance). Instead, he is "just" guaranteed to kill 1-3 pokemon, regardless of the situation. It is very uncommon that Skymin will have less than 1 KO in a match and equally uncommon that he will KO more than half of the opponent's team. This sounds a lot like the 'Chomp, who was guaranteed to take on anything one on one and come out the victor, but there were no assurances beyond that. And again, like Garchomp, Multiple counters are showing up on almost every team, in addition to the Green Menace himself on a lot of them. Additionally, so many things are forced to run a very specific stat spread (Scarf + Max Speed EVs + Positive Speed Nature) in order to give themselves the chance to hit this thing.
The fact of the matter is that, no matter how hyped its ability is, the lack of raw power, weakness to stealth rock, multiple weaknesses with few resists, and a variety of other factors keep Shaymin-S in check.
Registeel and Regice are ONLY good against Skymin, pretty much. Their usage would be a reason to support the Skymin ban, as he is encouraging the use of things that otherwise are fairly useless. These would be entirely specific counters, even more than counters to Garchomp were.
As for Blissey, switching in to Seed Flare makes blissey take 25-30% damage (given max SpA pos nature Skymin w/ Life Orb and the WishBliss EV spread). This ALSO sets Blissey's SpD drop by two stages. Meaning the NEXT seed flare deals 50-59%. If Blissey is packing Ice Beam or Flamethrower, she can KO in return, but if she is not, she will absolutely not KO, and ANY attack by skymin will KO. Alternately to a second Seed Flare, Skymin can just Air Slash, which has a 60% chance of flinching (meaning odds are the bliss can't counterattack) and then kill with a seed flare on the following turn.
As for the other factors: Lack of raw power? He has a 120 base special attack and his signature move is 120 Base power (+STAB) with a HUGE chance of doubling subsequent damage. That's a pretty sizable raw power in my book. I mean, Garchomp had a max attack stat (with pos nature) of 394, with a stabbed earthquake for a "raw power" of 59100. Skymin has a max special attack of 372, with a stabbed seed flare for a "raw power" of 66960. That's over a 10% increase on raw power. Additionally, Skymin can run Life Orb, as he doesn't fear something being faster than him nearly as much (negating the need for Yache Berry), making for an additional 30% increase of power. And Seed Flaring the switch mimics the effect of Swords Dance, allowing Skymin to 2HKO just about anything outside of the best special wall in the entire game (Blissey) and two rarely-used walls (Regice and Registeel). On top of that, Serene Grace is one of the most powerful Abilities in the game, and makes Skymin's rather limited move pool actually seem really awesome.
As for resistances and weaknesses, he resists two frequently used types (Fighting and Water) as well as being flat-out immune to the most used attack in the game (earthquake). Flying and Poison weaknesses might as well be meaningless, meaning he's really only weak to Fire, Rock, and 4X Ice. Compare this to say, Salamence. Also weak to Rock, also 4X weak to ice, also has another weakness that sees a decent ammount of use (dragon). And the only big resistance he has over Skymin is Fire.
No because a General Gyro Ball can't kill Shaymin, and Hypnosis only hits 10% over half of the time. So even if Shaymin does miss 1 flinch, it's okay.
Plus, I've seen Shaymin with HP Fire, so just 1 Flinch and 1 HP Fire after SD drop means dead too. Plus, I'd just switch on Bronzong. If there's something sleeping already, then I'd just switch to Scizor. Bronzong can't do much on Scizor.
Thank you for defining a counter for us!
Bronzong, Blissey, Registeel, Regice, Crobat... best counters right there.
Some good "other" counters (counter 90% of varients): Special Defense Dragonite, Zapdos, Jirachi
Some good "checks" Choice Scarf anything, Scizor, Jolteon, Aerodactyl, Choice Band Metagross, Mamoswine, Weavile
Yeah, thats a long list of shit...
Let's not forget Choice Scarf Cresselia. Fulfills the counter role pretty well.
I know I've made this point before too, but posting here for general reference... Stealth Rock nerfs the effectiveness of Skymin's counters. We could easily add Charizard, Moltres, Articuno and a number of others to the list if that move were banned.
I know I've made this point before too, but posting here for general reference... Stealth Rock nerfs the effectiveness of Skymin's counters. We could easily add Charizard, Moltres, Articuno and a number of others to the list if that move were banned.
Cool thing Stealth Rock nerfs the effectiveness of Skymin itself B).
I feel obliged to raise the point that just because something has counters doesn't mean its broken.
I've only been playing on Shoddy for a few weeks and I must say that Skymin is everywhere. I assume this is because everyone is trying it out.
Generally, I need my Scarf Porygon-Z to take it out. Skarmory resists both STAB but gets flinched to death. If it wasn't for Serene Grace, Skymin would be so OU!
I've only been playing on Shoddy for a few weeks and I must say that Skymin is everywhere. I assume this is because everyone is trying it out.
Generally, I need my Scarf Porygon-Z to take it out. Skarmory resists both STAB but gets flinched to death. If it wasn't for Serene Grace, Skymin would be so OU!
Now that I stop to think about, if it weren't by Serene Grace, Skymin would be as OU as Yanmega. "Low" defenses, shitty typing, SR weakness, and only 40% chance of a -2 drop, or 30% of flinching? Bleh :/
Skymin has few "real counters" but there are other ways to deal with it. Scizor and Scarf Heatran aren't real counters due to being unable to safely switch in, but if used wisely, can beat Skymin. It is not too hard to revenge kill, such as with Mamowsine, beating her. Some of the real counters are unrealistic e.g. Scarf Cresselia, like how Scarf Suicune was a real counter to Garchomp.
It's hard to say how counters would affect Skymin's role, as whilst there's few on paper, she can be forced out easily after a KO, and she returns with SR damage. But she always seems to get at least 1 KO without relying on flinch, whether or not this is enough for uber I don't know.
On that topic