Rohins, Tudor, and Xyro are the only ones I can think of. Hylian used to play her, but not anymore. He's probably one of the best regardless though.
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Super Smash Bros. Brawl: Character and Tier Discussion
- Thread starter Firestorm
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Rohins, Tudor, and Xyro are the only ones I can think of. Hylian used to play her, but not anymore. He's probably one of the best regardless though.
Someone here mains Fox? He kinda got nerved alot since Melee but he isn't all that bad right?
i want to see it too.
Also i'm washy on smashboards, i think I'm your next opponent in the PT tournament.
He's clearly lost a lot of power since Melee, but he's still usable nonetheless.
Though according to Amazing Ampharos, Fox has no weaknesses or major downsides. *rolls eyes*
Hey!
I've been trying my hand at competitive brawl and will be buying melee tomorrow! My main is currently Donkey Kong and I was wondering what you guys know about him. What I know is that Bair is an amazing approach, but walking F-Tilts are better in certain match ups (Falco). The main person I play against is a Falco and he always camps the death out of me, even with my walking F-Tilts, so I was wondering what I could do to beat his SHDLing.
F-Tilt is good for poking at a range, but I prefer D-Tilt as a close range move as it combo's into itself/ftilts/grabs/earthquakes. I never utilise his jab though. UP B I use to rack up damage and to eat away at shields and I always try to have giant punch charged up. My reflexes need training though, but I have no idea how to go about fixing them. I suck on the ledge too, and ledge attack out of instinct way too often.
I use FAir or DAir as edgeguarding moves. The delay and disjoyanted hitbox of Fair often confuses opponents and it is a very powerful move.
I seem to have trouble with camping, predicting shields and mostly people who play a aireal game and stick to that annoying blind spot at 2'oclock. Does anyone know how to beat those?
I've been trying my hand at competitive brawl and will be buying melee tomorrow! My main is currently Donkey Kong and I was wondering what you guys know about him. What I know is that Bair is an amazing approach, but walking F-Tilts are better in certain match ups (Falco). The main person I play against is a Falco and he always camps the death out of me, even with my walking F-Tilts, so I was wondering what I could do to beat his SHDLing.
F-Tilt is good for poking at a range, but I prefer D-Tilt as a close range move as it combo's into itself/ftilts/grabs/earthquakes. I never utilise his jab though. UP B I use to rack up damage and to eat away at shields and I always try to have giant punch charged up. My reflexes need training though, but I have no idea how to go about fixing them. I suck on the ledge too, and ledge attack out of instinct way too often.
I use FAir or DAir as edgeguarding moves. The delay and disjoyanted hitbox of Fair often confuses opponents and it is a very powerful move.
I seem to have trouble with camping, predicting shields and mostly people who play a aireal game and stick to that annoying blind spot at 2'oclock. Does anyone know how to beat those?
The easiest way to approach for DK is probably just powershielding lasers. Once you get the timing down, it's actually not that hard to do (except in wifi lag afff).
As for the blind spot at 2 o'clock, uptilt should work fine I think. Turning around and uptilting would probably work even better. I think uptilt in general is a pretty good anti-air move.
P.S. I don't play DK at all so I wouldn't be surprised if I'm completely wrong
As for the blind spot at 2 o'clock, uptilt should work fine I think. Turning around and uptilting would probably work even better. I think uptilt in general is a pretty good anti-air move.
P.S. I don't play DK at all so I wouldn't be surprised if I'm completely wrong
You could hop over his ground lasers and airdodge when he SHDLs.
You can aim your ftilts upward to cover for the "blind spot". If their aerials have any landing lag you can also just shield grab(just make sure DK's shield is almost full so thier attack doesn't poke through DK's small shield size).
When you you have Falco in a cargo hold, be sure to throw him under the stage so that the Falco can't wall tech and footstool you. He can't recover from it unless he's at a really low percent, and even then you can edgeguard him easily.
You can aim your ftilts upward to cover for the "blind spot". If their aerials have any landing lag you can also just shield grab(just make sure DK's shield is almost full so thier attack doesn't poke through DK's small shield size).
When you you have Falco in a cargo hold, be sure to throw him under the stage so that the Falco can't wall tech and footstool you. He can't recover from it unless he's at a really low percent, and even then you can edgeguard him easily.
![Mia [old]](/forums/data/avatars/m/17/17136.jpg?1387813379){kind=avatar}
Oh wow I gotta get back into SSBB. Haven't played in months...and quite surprised to see Toon Link in middle (yes he's my main).
Yeah, he was pretty popular at the beginning, but lots of people have just... stopped using him and his metagame isn't progressing as fast as it should be. =/
Well, I often vs Falco and my brother is a real bitch using him. I'm not sure if Donkey Kong is tall enough to get hit by the short-hopped laser, but if he isn't then slowly approach from the ground. That seems pretty obvious but I don't know what type of game your friend plays.
If he just camps like a bitch, if you're playing FD which is like campers heaven, you can try approaching him once and cargo carry, stage spike him if he camps near the edge.
If Falco is still bitchy I would try to main more characters.
Hope this helped you.
I barely even saw you at CH 4.5 period, except for your first doubles match and during my money matches with the Olimar/Samus player (though technically I didn't see you, as you were behind me).
Today I spent most of the day studying for finals on Monday and Tuesday though. How does the rest of the week look for you?
I'm going to give a plug to the best thread on smashboards:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=210557
p.s. Ness is too good
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=210557
p.s. Ness is too good
I'm going to give a plug to the best thread on smashboards:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=210557
p.s. Ness is too good
True that :D
After work Wednesday sounds good to me. Not to mention I could use all the teams practice I can get.
You're still residing with Chu, yes?
You're still residing with Chu, yes?
Well Colin, I retract my statement as far as Lucas > Ness. No, I'm being serious. I tried out Ness a little more, and I do have to say that I'm quite impressed.
It's clear that Ness's main game is with aerials. His fair is nice for starting combos or racking up damage, while his bair comes out quick, has a nice effect, and the hitbox doesn't seem so damn small (in comparison to Zelda's bair and C. Falcon's fair). It also pairs nicely when comboing in the low %s. Uair is a nice metoer smash, and to add the icing to the cake, his dair is a nifty spike. The only dull aerial is nair, which I hate how it lacks priority compared to his other moves as well as just seemingly bland.
The biggest thing I've taken for granted was his ground game. It's not something that I'd call "impressive"; however, it was better than what I thought. The baseball bat is easily overshadowed by Lucas's stick. His USmash and DSmash are nice as they are quick and have little lag to leave Ness for punishment. Unfortunately, it gets to be somewhat bland after that, other than throwing of course. PK Thunder2 could be used in the air too, and at least he can shorthop and bair for a quick kill if necessary.
Also, I've realized the potential of PK Thunder2 being a killer move; however, the only thing that quirks me is leaving you open while performing it. At least you can (sort of) angle it if you play around with PK Thunder a little bit. PK Fire I didn't use as much. Well, I tried, but people were too evasive for it to be extremely effective. PK Flash is an extremely niche move (only was effective once or twice) and the PSI Magnet... well you get the picture right?
I think Ness could potentially be my 3rd (I use Diddy Kong and I'm TRYING to grasp Zelda / Sheik). Are there any informative videos for Zelda and Sheik in particular? As in videos that show how to use them well? I found a really good one with Diddy Kong, but frankly it was one of the few characters that had such an informative video. Ness would be another I'd look for, but I think I've grasped him decently.
Just a post to say that Ness shouldn't be Low tier; however, I'm not overhyping it. Just saying that Ness is better than what some people give it credit for (like myself before).
It's clear that Ness's main game is with aerials. His fair is nice for starting combos or racking up damage, while his bair comes out quick, has a nice effect, and the hitbox doesn't seem so damn small (in comparison to Zelda's bair and C. Falcon's fair). It also pairs nicely when comboing in the low %s. Uair is a nice metoer smash, and to add the icing to the cake, his dair is a nifty spike. The only dull aerial is nair, which I hate how it lacks priority compared to his other moves as well as just seemingly bland.
The biggest thing I've taken for granted was his ground game. It's not something that I'd call "impressive"; however, it was better than what I thought. The baseball bat is easily overshadowed by Lucas's stick. His USmash and DSmash are nice as they are quick and have little lag to leave Ness for punishment. Unfortunately, it gets to be somewhat bland after that, other than throwing of course. PK Thunder2 could be used in the air too, and at least he can shorthop and bair for a quick kill if necessary.
Also, I've realized the potential of PK Thunder2 being a killer move; however, the only thing that quirks me is leaving you open while performing it. At least you can (sort of) angle it if you play around with PK Thunder a little bit. PK Fire I didn't use as much. Well, I tried, but people were too evasive for it to be extremely effective. PK Flash is an extremely niche move (only was effective once or twice) and the PSI Magnet... well you get the picture right?
I think Ness could potentially be my 3rd (I use Diddy Kong and I'm TRYING to grasp Zelda / Sheik). Are there any informative videos for Zelda and Sheik in particular? As in videos that show how to use them well? I found a really good one with Diddy Kong, but frankly it was one of the few characters that had such an informative video. Ness would be another I'd look for, but I think I've grasped him decently.
Just a post to say that Ness shouldn't be Low tier; however, I'm not overhyping it. Just saying that Ness is better than what some people give it credit for (like myself before).
Zelda is a really defensive character. If you can outcamp the enemy with Din's Fire and Nayru's love, do it. Harrass them to come to you with Din's Fire until they're at about Fsmash range. Zelda Nayru's Love is a great way to stop approaches. It has good range, deals a fair amount of damage, has some invincibility frames, and knocks the opponent the way you're facing(keep b-reversals in mind if you're near the edge). The move is slightly faster in the air. Keep in mind the punishable ending lag if you don't hit them with it, though. Her Dsmash and jab are other slightly safer defensive options. Usmash and Fsmash are both pretty good disjointed kill moves, although I believe Usmash can be DIed out of.
Shiek's Ftilt lock deals alot of damage, and you can usually follow it up with a grab. It completely screws over fast-falling characters like Fox and Wolf because it takes them forever to escape. Shiek's Dtilt is useless, unless you're fighting Ganondorf who doesn't have any moves that can hit you while you're doing it besides an aerial downb.
Shiek's Ftilt lock deals alot of damage, and you can usually follow it up with a grab. It completely screws over fast-falling characters like Fox and Wolf because it takes them forever to escape. Shiek's Dtilt is useless, unless you're fighting Ganondorf who doesn't have any moves that can hit you while you're doing it besides an aerial downb.
I still don't understand why yoshi is near the bottom. He's much better than some of the higher characters such as lucas, ness, bowser, jiggly, (maybe fox), Peach, Zelda, Wolf.
He even has some good matchups (compared to most other characters) against the higher tiers. (Falco, Snake, MK, Wario)
He even has some good matchups (compared to most other characters) against the higher tiers. (Falco, Snake, MK, Wario)
Wut? I can't speak for the rest of the characters, but Yoshi has a terrible match up against Falco (ok, not terrible, but I think it's 60:40 in Falco's favor) and I think he just goes even against MK and Snake. Wario I'll give you though for grab-release shenanigans.
Yoshi can Nair so the CG for falco doesn't work IIRC. And Yoshi has a CG on Falco too. And can kill Falco at around 17% if yoshi grabs near the edge facing the edge of the stage. Still even with that yoshi has no approach. But yea I'd agree it is still 60-40, but momentum based. Who else do you think has good matchups like that with top/high tiers? And Donkey Kong, GaW diddy are about neutral too.
Also I meant good matchups for low tier so yea it meant going even. I mean lots of characters would love to go even with MK wouldn't they?
Also I meant good matchups for low tier so yea it meant going even. I mean lots of characters would love to go even with MK wouldn't they?
A 60:40 matchup is a 60:40 matchup. Momentum has nothing to do with it (any character can gain the momentum on any other character), and a 60:40 matchup does not mean Yoshi cannot win. Some Yoshis can beat a Falco, but then against some Sonics (Mr. 3000's) can beat a Falco. Does not mean that Sonic/Yoshi isn't at a disadvantage. What you were saying was...
A 40:60 matchup is not a good matchup "compared to most other characters", which does not imply that you're soley comparing it to only the low/bottom tiers (as you are comparing it to "most characters", and most characters aren't low/bottom tier). Even as you were, that's still not a good match up compared to low/bottom tier characters. Zelda's possible 60:40 against Falco is a good matchup compared to low/bottom tier characters, and in fact a good matchup in general. Taken into a literal perspective, most low tiers average 40:60 against Falco, so at best Yoshi is considered a very average match up in his tier bracket.
As for the other characters, I haven't put enough research into them other than general numbers, so I'll let more qualified individuals answer those.
A 40:60 matchup is not a good matchup "compared to most other characters", which does not imply that you're soley comparing it to only the low/bottom tiers (as you are comparing it to "most characters", and most characters aren't low/bottom tier). Even as you were, that's still not a good match up compared to low/bottom tier characters. Zelda's possible 60:40 against Falco is a good matchup compared to low/bottom tier characters, and in fact a good matchup in general. Taken into a literal perspective, most low tiers average 40:60 against Falco, so at best Yoshi is considered a very average match up in his tier bracket.
As for the other characters, I haven't put enough research into them other than general numbers, so I'll let more qualified individuals answer those.
Momentum has a lot to do with this matchup. Yoshi can kill Falco at 20%. If that doesn't shift the momentum, I dunno what will. However Falco still has effective Laser camping against yoshi. And I know a lot of low tiers have that matchup ratio on Falco, but the combination of decent matchups against the higher up in the tiers is what makes me think he should rise higher.
Btw, you wanna have a few matches tomorrow 3-4 pm est?
Btw, you wanna have a few matches tomorrow 3-4 pm est?
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