-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Lati@s Discussion Thread
- Thread starter RaikouLover
- Start date
Latios is going to be more influential to the metagame than Latias, they both can't hurt steels, but, like Salamence, once all the steels are gone, Latios will bring the pain.
Going to see alot more Scarved Gengar...
Going to see alot more Scarved Gengar...
Latios will promote an unhealthy metagame if it is OU along with Latias - it will make everyone carry Steels. I challenge everyone to find a team on the leaderboard that has no Steel Pokemon.
Suspect is no fun, it's basically whoever kills off the opponent's Steels first wins. If everyone votes OU, this metagame, this metagame where most teams look like TAY's will not be good for us.
I persevere in playing the ladder only because I'm voting Uber unless someone can provide solid reasoning as to why Lati@s will benefit the metagame.
I'm trying to avoid the 'overcentralising' term here, but currently Latias looks like she may well be.
Suspect is no fun, it's basically whoever kills off the opponent's Steels first wins. If everyone votes OU, this metagame, this metagame where most teams look like TAY's will not be good for us.
I persevere in playing the ladder only because I'm voting Uber unless someone can provide solid reasoning as to why Lati@s will benefit the metagame.
I'm trying to avoid the 'overcentralising' term here, but currently Latias looks like she may well be.
One of my suspect teams has no steels or dragons (partially to illustrate the point that it's not required) and it functions perfectly fine; I've had great success with it.
What difference does that make? And having a Steel type is not really a bad thing is it? I mean they are common for a reason and that is because Steel is just a fantastic type. Surely I should not have to point out reasonings to why it is a good type. Generally most teams even before the suspect testing carried a Steel type, so... what exactly is the difference? What if Salamence was the true problem? Latias on her own is underwhelming in my opinion, personally I'm more afraid of Salamence then she. So why cannot it be Salamence the true cause of this "unbalance" and Latias is just there to take the blame because she is the one being tested?
There were many steels around before Latias. Scizor, Heatran, Lucario etc. Latias has only slightly increased this number, and I doubt removing her would make much difference. However, I feel Magnezone usage is rising rapidly, especially the Scarf variant, to support Latias (and Salamance).
I'm going to vote OU. At least Skymin (who I now think should be OU too) could hax most of her counters.
I've tested Latias on Suspect.
Lati@s are two very solid OU Pokémon that have no reason of
being banned.
The Calm Mind set is quite nice - it is up to the player to decide wether to use
Hidden Power [FIRE] or Refresh. Latias is, in my pure and tested opinion, a solid
candidae for OU pokemon. Although it needs voting, Latias has a very good
amount of counters from which one of them is the most overused Pokémon
of these couple of months.
Latios might be more useful than Latios - I remember the time in Battle tower
when I faced an Expert Belt Latios. It was such a great threat!
As I have said, Lati@s are two very solid OU Pokémon that have no reason of
being banned.
Lati@s are two very solid OU Pokémon that have no reason of
being banned.
The Calm Mind set is quite nice - it is up to the player to decide wether to use
Hidden Power [FIRE] or Refresh. Latias is, in my pure and tested opinion, a solid
candidae for OU pokemon. Although it needs voting, Latias has a very good
amount of counters from which one of them is the most overused Pokémon
of these couple of months.
Latios might be more useful than Latios - I remember the time in Battle tower
when I faced an Expert Belt Latios. It was such a great threat!
As I have said, Lati@s are two very solid OU Pokémon that have no reason of
being banned.
yeah but even then i myself would only see one but now it seems like two to three to a team.It could just be because people are stil geting use to them and going to extreme length to counter them that arent needed.
A problem with the CM set is to either pick HP fight or HP fire. HP fire destroys scizor, but it allows ttar to come in and demolish you, and if you go with HP fight to counter ttar, things like scizor and metagross can come in and destroy you as well
What the fuck? Can't hurt steels?
Read the OP... Latios AND Latias can both 2HKO Steels with Draco Meteor from the Specs or Surf. Hell, the Life Orb set I posted a while back 2HKOs Scizor, Metagross, and Tyranitar with Surf + Draco Meteor.
Tyranitar can stil take hp fighting if it runs enough spdef i wouldnt even rely on scizor to deal with latias but it a decent check.
I agree it hasn't seemed to be over powering the suspect metagame
You wouldnt need hp fighting, it still wont kill off a ttar you might as well stick to surf and hp fire is MUCH useful for scizors.
yea and it will end up being OU anyways.
yea and it will end up being OU anyways.
true, unless your running specs latias, but I doubt anybody would. TTar can come in and destroy it easily
The suspect metagame doesn't seem right to me. It feels heavily reliant on ground moves (possibly to get rid of Steels and Tyranitar). The standard ladder never had this much dependency on those types of moves. I know it was common but not to this degree. I've had to revamp my entire team to try to deal with it. And if a standard team isn't good enough to compete in what is supposed to be a parallel metagame, then Latias might be causing an issue.
Maybe the problem isn't her directly, but the reaction to/for her. It's still to early to call but there has definitely been a shift. Whether this will correct itself is still to be determined.
Maybe the problem isn't her directly, but the reaction to/for her. It's still to early to call but there has definitely been a shift. Whether this will correct itself is still to be determined.
Well Veedrock, this point has been brought up in TAY's RMT. I think this is mainly the product of the Suspect test. Since you are encouraged (or most people feel obliged) to test Latias, nearly every team is going to Latias-centric, hence focusing on Latias and her counters. I think the difference with the Shaymin-S test is that it was part of the standard Metagame, thus making everyone have to deal with it and being able to form their own conclusion about it.
I really don't find Latias that threatening, or even harmful to the Metagame. There is just a stigma that you need Tyranitar / Metagross / Scizor to counter her so those three are also on every team. That makes things such as Magnezone and Dugtrio horribly common as well. And since they are eliminating steels, that means you can double or triple up on Dragon Pokemon as a result. That's all thats really happening. Many users, however, have found that their standard teams only need a modification or two and work perfectly fine on suspect test (for example, my platinum team is unchanged for suspect and works just as it used to).
So I'm a little worred that "Latias makes the game Dragon and Steel orientated" will be the common argument against her, which make things look even more grim for her male counterpart who will pack a stronger punch. I guess we have to hope the community will get out of certain mindsets.
What do you guys think of this mix latias set that I made?
Latias @ Life Orb
Timid
EV's: 8 HP, 252 Atk, 188 Spe, 60 SpA
~Draco Meteor
~HP Fire
~Earthquake
~Roost
With the EV's, EQ is guarenteed to 2HKO 4 HP/min def tyranitar (most of them carry SpD ev's now instead of def to try and counter latias)
HP Fire almost 2HKO's Metagross, it is almost guarenteed to 2HKO with SR support, and will 2HKO it with spike support. (this works for most versions)
HP Fire OHKOs almost every scizor out there.
Draco Meteor poses a threat to pretty much everything out there.
This is pretty much a special version of the common mixmence, but I find it to be much more effective, as latias is faster and bulkier then slamence.
Latias @ Life Orb
Timid
EV's: 8 HP, 252 Atk, 188 Spe, 60 SpA
~Draco Meteor
~HP Fire
~Earthquake
~Roost
With the EV's, EQ is guarenteed to 2HKO 4 HP/min def tyranitar (most of them carry SpD ev's now instead of def to try and counter latias)
HP Fire almost 2HKO's Metagross, it is almost guarenteed to 2HKO with SR support, and will 2HKO it with spike support. (this works for most versions)
HP Fire OHKOs almost every scizor out there.
Draco Meteor poses a threat to pretty much everything out there.
This is pretty much a special version of the common mixmence, but I find it to be much more effective, as latias is faster and bulkier then slamence.
I'd like to see how high Magnezone usage is this month, both on standard and suspect. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if it's in the top 12 at least - I probably see around 5 Magnezone for every Gengar on ladder.
Zone really rapes the metagame right now. Not only is a foolproof way of getting rid of Scizor (invaluable for offensive teams), it kills those annoying Scarf Jirachi leads and removes things like Skarmory and non-EQ Bronzong for Salamence to sweep. Not to mention the 'synergy' it has with Salamence. Really a great pokemon =P.
LR.
Zone really rapes the metagame right now. Not only is a foolproof way of getting rid of Scizor (invaluable for offensive teams), it kills those annoying Scarf Jirachi leads and removes things like Skarmory and non-EQ Bronzong for Salamence to sweep. Not to mention the 'synergy' it has with Salamence. Really a great pokemon =P.
LR.
I think it is way to specialized. Latias probably shouldn't be wasting 252 Atk EVs just to use an unSTABed move to 2HKO Tyranitar when she can do that with Specs or Life Orb Surf and keep the special attack stat.