All right, I thank you for your help anyway. I will remember this for next time. I apologize, I'm still rather new around here.
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New and "creative" moveset/EV spread thread "Mark 2"
- Thread starter gengod
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All right, I thank you for your help anyway. I will remember this for next time. I apologize, I'm still rather new around here.
Yes, but it obviously can be used for more than just killing Clefable. Hypno has naturally high Sp. Def and it has more than one move.
Also, a reason that you'd use something like this over setting up is for surprise factor, that can also be used after the surprise is up. Hypno is always fairly predicable, and surprising your opponent by taking out a crucial pokemon can change the tide in battle. If only standard sets were used and no one got creative and stuck to what Pokemon APPEAR to do best, important sets that impact the metagame would never be created. Why use this over Hitmonlee or Primeape? Because they are predictable, and the opponent will switch out, while a typical Hypno counter is killed through a surprise and viable set.
@the bolded: ...what the hell? It's about using what's effective, not sticking to a mold. If standard is effective, then why not use it? And standards change anyways due to shifting metagames. There's a reason why this thread is here, for people to comment on sets that people made up and whether it can prove effective in battle. If this 'creativity' that you claim is non-existent weren't there, there would be no use for this thread.
That being said, no set should rely completely on the element of surprise. There's no reason to use something unexpected that will only prove useful for a turn and then is the equivalent of a wasted team slot through the end fo the game. A choiced set relies a lot on prediction enough, why make things difficult for yourself? And you haven't addressed the fact that so many things set up on that, so many things ruin it. Once your set is found out, things that the standard Hypno variants did well against before that you criticized, like Claydol, Hitmontop, Steelix and yes, Clefable will be given free turns. You will also now be fearing status a lot more than you did before, thanks to Hypno's slow speed.
...now that I'm done with that, and I ran several calculations, nd I found that it's good to run max SpA on Raikou for the simple reason that it 2HKOs all of the top 15 leads (assuming min HP/SpD) except for Bronzong, Heatran and Hippowdon. But since none present a significant hindrance to your set-up, I'll just stay safe and keep them.
But it isn't a wasted team slot afterwards, because it can come in on many special attacks and hit hard, if you predict. However it is a choice pokemon, so if you can't predict don't use it, however the payoffs CAN be great.
Your Raikou set has piqued my interest =) I'll be playtesting it extensively tomorrow. I'll let you know how it turns out, and I might make a list of how to deal common lead yada yada. It's a very innovative set.
LR.
Why thank you! Yes, please let me know how it turns out. I don't play OU, but I do like BL Pokemon so if you could get back to me on that, that would be great.
@ Age of Kings,
Your Raikou set looks pretty good, but I don't think you need that much Sp. Atk EVs invested. You may be able to survive some unSTABed earthquakes with some defensive or HP investment, however I'm not too good with maximizing defense so you will need to turn to someone else. Perhaps you can survive an Aerodactyl's earthquake.
Your Raikou set looks pretty good, but I don't think you need that much Sp. Atk EVs invested. You may be able to survive some unSTABed earthquakes with some defensive or HP investment, however I'm not too good with maximizing defense so you will need to turn to someone else. Perhaps you can survive an Aerodactyl's earthquake.
@Mordock: Nothing too original, just a double screen Rotom. If it works well for you, that's good.
My main concern was for Metagross, who takes min 51% with max SpA invested. Although Metagross would be a non-factor due to a combination of T-wave+Reflect.
@ Age of Kings - I tested Raikou today, and sorry to say it isn't really that amazing =/. Raikou makes a great lead if you want to 2HKO many opposing leads with Thunderbolt, but it's not the best at setting up dual screens. Azelf and Alakazam do it much better because they have something else to set them apart - Azelf with Stealth Rock and Explosion and Alakazam with higher speed than Azelf and Encore. While Tyranitar still gets these two with Pursuit, Raikou is also either forced to switch and eat a Pursuit or stay in and get 2HKOed by a Reflected Earthquake. If Raikou had Explosion or even Stealth Rock then it would make a far better dual screener than Azelf, but as it is it isn't doing too well with its limited movepool.
Although, after all this complaining, I have brainstormed a set based on yours that could possibly work:
Raikou @ Leftovers
Timid
120 HP, 136 SpA, 252 Spe
- Reflect
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- HP Ice
Reflect can serve for team support, and when you finally feel you can start CMing up it will give you protection on the physical spectrum. Behind a Reflect, Raikou survives an Adamant CB Dugtrio Earthquake and OHKOs back with HP Ice. Lucario's LO Close Combat and CB Tyranitar Crunch will never 2HKO Raikou behind a Reflect, whereas it can 3HKO 252 HP Tyranitar with a +1 Thunderbolt.
Just some random set I theorymoned up, but I'm not sure how it is really better than the Substitute sweeper.
LR.
Although, after all this complaining, I have brainstormed a set based on yours that could possibly work:
Raikou @ Leftovers
Timid
120 HP, 136 SpA, 252 Spe
- Reflect
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- HP Ice
Reflect can serve for team support, and when you finally feel you can start CMing up it will give you protection on the physical spectrum. Behind a Reflect, Raikou survives an Adamant CB Dugtrio Earthquake and OHKOs back with HP Ice. Lucario's LO Close Combat and CB Tyranitar Crunch will never 2HKO Raikou behind a Reflect, whereas it can 3HKO 252 HP Tyranitar with a +1 Thunderbolt.
Just some random set I theorymoned up, but I'm not sure how it is really better than the Substitute sweeper.
LR.
Ah, I see. Well, that's what theorymoning does for you. Thanks very much for your input. ^_^;
EVs are kind of awful. If you have 50 HP and 100ish defenses (and you're doubling said defenses) max HP first, then defenses. Speed would be nice too. Other than that, a solid set.
Reflect Raikou is viable, I'd do a peer edit for it honestly. Just PM Darkie who's doing the revamp. (First time I've ever said _that_ in this thread...)
Broken Wings
Guest
Flame Orb Milotic
Milotic @ Flame Orb
Nature: Bold
Ability: Marvel Scale
EV's: 252HP/132Def/126SpDef
- Aqua Ring
- Recover
- Surf
- Ice Beam/Toxic/Hidden Power Electric
Description
The main idea behind this moveset is Milotic's unique ability- Marvel Scale, In order for Marvel Scale to activate, Milotic must be given a status effect. Instead of using the rest talker set to inflict yoursef with status, you can use Flame Orb to Burn Milotic and activate Marvel Scale. By inflicting a burn status onto Milotic, it also gains immunity to other status conditions such as poisioning, paralysis, and sleep. The negative effect of the burn on Milotic's attack makes no difference as it won't be using any physical attacking moves. However, milotic will still take damage from Flame Orb.
This is where Aqua Ring comes in handy. The damage taken by the burn will be immediately healed by Aqua Ring. This keeps Milotic healthy, ensuring you don't have to worry much about any extra damage it's taking from the effects of Flame Orb.
Recover is then used simply to stay alive longer. With it's great defences and HP, Milotic can sustain a fair few hits from most normaly effective attacks allowing Recover to become very handy in raising it's life back up
Surf is Milotic's primary way of dealing damage. Even without the Ev's, Milotic is still able to damage frail sweepers such as Infernape and Azelf.
The fourth move is a toss up between Ice Beam and Toxic. Ice Beam is for increased type coverage allowing Milotic to strike out against dragon types such as Dragonite and Salamence. Ice beam also allows you to get a super effective hit on grass types which resist Surf. Having Ice Beam makes Milotic unable to take on opposing bulky waters such as Vaporeon and Suicune. Toxic can help you wear down bulky waters allowing another Pokemon on your team to kill them off. However, you are still walled by Pokemon such as tentacruel and Empoleon. Hidden Power Electric allows you to put a slight dent into Empoleon, tentacruel and Vaporeon. Carrying Hidden Power Electric also allows you to counter Gyarados more effectively.
Overall Ice Beam is more effective offensively, allowing Milotic to strike back at almost everything whilst Toxic works better defensively, making opponents switch, thus giving Milotic more time to heal itself. Toxic would also be a very handy addition against enemy sponges to whom Milotic would struggle to do much damage too such as Umbreon.
The Maximum EV's in HP are a must for a defensive pokemon, allowing it to reach an impressive 394HP making it rather tough to bring down. It then has basically even EV's in Def and Sp Def to ensure that it can take both physical and special hits well. With marvel scale activated, Milotic's rather average defence increases to a level very similar to that of it's Sp Def making Milotic an impressive dual wall.The Bold Nature and Extra few Def EV's allow Milotic to takes physical attacks from Gyarados. In conclusion, as long as Aqua Ring/Flame Orb get set up safely, Milotic can become very hard to take down.
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I hope you enjoyed reading
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Milotic @ Flame Orb
Nature: Bold
Ability: Marvel Scale
EV's: 252HP/132Def/126SpDef
- Aqua Ring
- Recover
- Surf
- Ice Beam/Toxic/Hidden Power Electric
Description
The main idea behind this moveset is Milotic's unique ability- Marvel Scale, In order for Marvel Scale to activate, Milotic must be given a status effect. Instead of using the rest talker set to inflict yoursef with status, you can use Flame Orb to Burn Milotic and activate Marvel Scale. By inflicting a burn status onto Milotic, it also gains immunity to other status conditions such as poisioning, paralysis, and sleep. The negative effect of the burn on Milotic's attack makes no difference as it won't be using any physical attacking moves. However, milotic will still take damage from Flame Orb.
This is where Aqua Ring comes in handy. The damage taken by the burn will be immediately healed by Aqua Ring. This keeps Milotic healthy, ensuring you don't have to worry much about any extra damage it's taking from the effects of Flame Orb.
Recover is then used simply to stay alive longer. With it's great defences and HP, Milotic can sustain a fair few hits from most normaly effective attacks allowing Recover to become very handy in raising it's life back up
Surf is Milotic's primary way of dealing damage. Even without the Ev's, Milotic is still able to damage frail sweepers such as Infernape and Azelf.
The fourth move is a toss up between Ice Beam and Toxic. Ice Beam is for increased type coverage allowing Milotic to strike out against dragon types such as Dragonite and Salamence. Ice beam also allows you to get a super effective hit on grass types which resist Surf. Having Ice Beam makes Milotic unable to take on opposing bulky waters such as Vaporeon and Suicune. Toxic can help you wear down bulky waters allowing another Pokemon on your team to kill them off. However, you are still walled by Pokemon such as tentacruel and Empoleon. Hidden Power Electric allows you to put a slight dent into Empoleon, tentacruel and Vaporeon. Carrying Hidden Power Electric also allows you to counter Gyarados more effectively.
Overall Ice Beam is more effective offensively, allowing Milotic to strike back at almost everything whilst Toxic works better defensively, making opponents switch, thus giving Milotic more time to heal itself. Toxic would also be a very handy addition against enemy sponges to whom Milotic would struggle to do much damage too such as Umbreon.
The Maximum EV's in HP are a must for a defensive pokemon, allowing it to reach an impressive 394HP making it rather tough to bring down. It then has basically even EV's in Def and Sp Def to ensure that it can take both physical and special hits well. With marvel scale activated, Milotic's rather average defence increases to a level very similar to that of it's Sp Def making Milotic an impressive dual wall.The Bold Nature and Extra few Def EV's allow Milotic to takes physical attacks from Gyarados. In conclusion, as long as Aqua Ring/Flame Orb get set up safely, Milotic can become very hard to take down.
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I hope you enjoyed reading
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Milotic @ Flame Orb
Nature: Bold
Ability: Marvel Scale
EV's: 252HP/132Def/126SpDef
- Aqua Ring
- Recover
- Surf
- Ice Beam/Toxic/Hidden Power Electric
Aqua Ring only restores 1/16 of your max health per turn while burn inflicts 1/8. Even if Aqua Ring did negate burn damage it still is hardly worth considering for a move slot considering you should be using Recover anyways.
I feel like you would find this useful, Mordock: http://users.smogon.com/X-Act/defense.html
Using this, your set becomes 252 hp/128 defense/ 128 sdefense, as Chris predicted.
...now that I think about it, maybe a link to that utility in the original post wouldn't hurt, even if it is in the dppt resources thread...
Using this, your set becomes 252 hp/128 defense/ 128 sdefense, as Chris predicted.
...now that I think about it, maybe a link to that utility in the original post wouldn't hurt, even if it is in the dppt resources thread...
Ability : Blaze
Timid Nature
EV: 252 Speed / 252 Sp. Atk / 6 Hp
-Substitute
-Nasty Plot
-Flamethrower/Fire Blast
-Hp Ice?
This set is to abuse most switch outs when you bring in and expect "MixApe" It forces switch out which lets you set up sub + nasty plot. Until your hp is brought down enough to activate both Salac and Blaze this thing is ready to OHKO almost everything not resisted with Fire Blast, and if you like accuracy use flamethrower. I don't know about the last slot, I was thinking Hp Ice for grounds, and dragons? Someone help me on the last slot
subplot ape has already been discussed, focus blast is the best option, etc etc see wherever my last post in this thread was. of course this thing only worked in dp so i dunno why you're trying.
@ nachos, but then you can't break vaporeon or blissey. also, with salac berry you hit over 500 speed so how wil; scarftran outspeed you?
@ nachos, but then you can't break vaporeon or blissey. also, with salac berry you hit over 500 speed so how wil; scarftran outspeed you?
If it were me I would run:
Infernape @ Life Orb
Blaze
EV's: 6HP, 252 Sp.Attack, 252 Speed
Timid
- Substitute
- Nasty Plot
- Vaccum Wave
- Flamethrower
You won't be outspeeding ScarfTran anyday and Focus Blast's accuracy just sucks. Life Orb is there just because with SR, you using Sub and the fact that Infernape needs the power you won't be taking any hits to save your life in the first place.
@Stathakis: I've always found that Focus Blast's accuracy is so shit that it costs me games. And if I'm subbing down to a Salac Berry, between SR and Standstorm I'm going to get very few turns off sweep. Scizor can also pick me off with Bullet Punch/Quick Attack.
About Vaporeon and Blissey, I've already said how much I hate FB's accuracy. I'd rather just play it safe and go with Vaccum Wave. It also means I'm not revenge killed so sudden by Scizor.
Infernape @ Life Orb
Blaze
EV's: 6HP, 252 Sp.Attack, 252 Speed
Timid
- Substitute
- Nasty Plot
- Vaccum Wave
- Flamethrower
You won't be outspeeding ScarfTran anyday and Focus Blast's accuracy just sucks. Life Orb is there just because with SR, you using Sub and the fact that Infernape needs the power you won't be taking any hits to save your life in the first place.
@Stathakis: I've always found that Focus Blast's accuracy is so shit that it costs me games. And if I'm subbing down to a Salac Berry, between SR and Standstorm I'm going to get very few turns off sweep. Scizor can also pick me off with Bullet Punch/Quick Attack.
About Vaporeon and Blissey, I've already said how much I hate FB's accuracy. I'd rather just play it safe and go with Vaccum Wave. It also means I'm not revenge killed so sudden by Scizor.
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