I've been using Zangoose until recently, but got rid of it as it is hard for it to do any real damage. I'm surprised at how easily it gets walled.
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np: UU - A New Beginning
- Thread starter RBG
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I'm going to try out Dragonair lol. I want to see if its a viable late game sweeper, since Waterfall + Outrage is only resisted by Shedinja and Empoleon (Who I'll not be facing) iirc, and it has the speed to outrun +speed base 110's after 1 DD while still having an adamant nature, and having a bit of leftover EV's for defenses. It has more attack than Altaria, its just more fragile and a bit slower, but I don't see why not to try lol.
Also gonna see how Magneton does in UU, as well as Hariyama.
Also gonna see how Magneton does in UU, as well as Hariyama.
Porygon2 is actually pretty mediocre for one main reason: Sweepers in new UU don't have any good abilities to Trace. I mean, think about it in OU. Porygon2 can steal stuff like Intimidate from Salamence and Gyarados, Natural Cure from Blissey and Celebi, Magnet Pull from Magnezone, Arena Trap from Dugtrio, Levitate from Flygon, Flash Fire from Heatran, Volt Absorb from Jolteon, and even Water Absorb from Vaporeon. In UU, it gets... what? Staraptor gets Close Combat to dispose of P2, so Intimidate is of dubious use. Arcanine gives Flash Fire, but its biggest use is CB Extremespeed, which P2 can stall out with Recover, I suppose. Granbull can give Intimidate, but it too has Close Combat to deal with P2. Houndoom gives Flash Fire, but it also has STAB Dark Pulse to eliminate the cyberduck. Other than that, all the big threats just bash straight through poor Porygon2.
Has anyone been using Miltank at all? I've actually had quite a bit of fun with it thusfar, specifically the counter set; being able to kill some of the physical attackers lacking STAB fighting moves instantly with some prediction then recovering the damage with Milk Drink is pretty cool, and has netted me some good kills. It also takes hits better than I had originally expected, being able to stand up to pretty much everything that isn't a STAB CC or CB CC from Staraptor (CB Gabite fails to 2HKO with Outrage factoring in Leftovers, by the way). Heal Bell has also proved to be a nice touch so far. It's too bad it gets set up on by the likes of Spiritomb, though, unless you're running some sort of wacko Scrappy Hammer Arm set with significant attack (have no idea how much damage neutral nature with no EVs does, although I doubt it's significant) or Seismic Toss or something. I dare someone to try out a Scrappy Miltank with Seismic Toss and Counter.
Specs Moltres is pretty awesome from my experience. The only thing that has been able to wall it is Chancy (seems pretty rare) and bulky waters can take the odd Fire Blast. STAB Specs Air Slash from 125 base SpA really hurts and can wear down most of the bulky waters.
I don't know how viable Outrage is on anything. The Pokemon that can use it, don't have the highest Attack stats in the metagame, like Dragonite, Salamence and Garchomp do, but still, the only commonly used Pokemon that resists the move is Registeel, whilst in OU there's about 20.
The strongest Outrage belongs to Shelgon, followed by Gabite, then Dragonair, then Altaria and Vibrava (although it's pretty much completely outclassed by Gabite). Altaria is the best all round of those, but it has an Outrage as poweful as Vibrava, which is pretty bad, plus, I think there's Pokemon who don't get STAB on Outrage who probably have them more powerful.
To sum up, I don't think Outrage is so viable here, but it looks like it will be in NU!
The strongest Outrage belongs to Shelgon, followed by Gabite, then Dragonair, then Altaria and Vibrava (although it's pretty much completely outclassed by Gabite). Altaria is the best all round of those, but it has an Outrage as poweful as Vibrava, which is pretty bad, plus, I think there's Pokemon who don't get STAB on Outrage who probably have them more powerful.
To sum up, I don't think Outrage is so viable here, but it looks like it will be in NU!
Here are three pokemon I've been testing out in this "new UU" tier:
Wynaut, Ursaring, Bibarel (obviously).
Wynaut has been quite awesome on my team. I've been using a rather weird EV spread, which lets me outspeed 0 Speed EV Spiritomb by 1 point, letting me shut off his CMs. Then, I used X-Act's defense EV applet to work the defense/hp EVs, because unlike Wobb, Wynaut actually does need HP EVs. I also use a Focus Sash to either Counter/Mirror Coat a strong hit, or so that I can Encore a Ghost move for Ursaring or Bibarel. I've been thinking about trying this strategy with a BD Linoone to complement it for a lategame sweep, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.
He's the thing that protects me from getting destroyed by Stall teams, because he can trap the pokemon, Encore what is most likely a support move, and then I can switch over to Bibarel and then pull off the Bread n' Butter Super Fang the switch-in combo. It took me a long time to get used to using Wynaut though, because unlike Wobb, he is very frail even with a lot of defensive EVs.
Wynaut doesn't seem nearly as dominating as Wobbuffet IMO. Unlike Wobb, he dies very quickly, and he can't come in several times either, so if his setup fails, he's most likely dead weight unless you carry a Wishpasser too. Also, there are quite a few things that carry U-Turn in UU right now, so Wynaut only really works against Walls or some setup sweepers (with very good prediction).
Ursaring has swept a few times for me. I use Facade/Close Combat/Crunch/Swords Dance w/Quick Feet and Toxic Orb. Facade is incredibly strong after a Swords Dance, even nearly 2HKOing Registeel after a Swords Dance with only max Attack and a Jolly nature. Close Combat murders any Normals/Steels/Rocks that try to wall Facade. Crunch takes care of Ghosts that wall Facade. Ursaring unfortunately does have problems with Spiritomb...
The biggest problem with this Ursaring is that he is absolutely screwed by anything that has Sub since Poison damage increases quickly. Also, he dies extremely quickly during his sweep, even without the help of the opponent. However, he is a good glass cannon sweeper. Remember though, Ursaring CAN be built to be very bulky, just that this particular one isn't.
Bibarel is my personal favourite, and he's always worked well for me in OU, so I thought, why not give him a shot in his home tier? I use my favourite set, which is Tauntarel (see the analysis for details). If there's something to get rid of annoying Toxic Spikes, this thing can work wonders. The basic strategy is to Taunt walls, cut them down with Super Fang, screw attackers with Swagger, stop support moves with more Taunting, etc.
It's interesting how many things it actually counters though. If you need a 100% counter for several Belly Drummers, Unaware ignores their Belly Drum, rendering foes like BellyZard useless. Problems with Cosmic Power Clefable? Bibarel doesn't mind, because Unaware ignores the Defensive boosts, and even then it doesn't matter because Super Fang would take off half current health anyway. He can stop most stat uppers and save the team from a sweep very easily. However, he does have trouble with stuff like Raikou for obvious reasons. Choice sweepers will also give him a problem too, though they will still risk 50% of their health coming off, or being Swaggered. Yawn is another good status in place of Swagger, since it can really stop sweeps by putting the opponent to sleep. However, Swagger is better considering how it functions with Unaware, and Yawn doesn't work after Sleep Clause as well.
It may not seem like it can be Spiritomb, but unless Spiritomb has absolute max special attack and HP Fighting, it's going to be very difficult for Spiritomb to win. Bibarel can shut off Sleep Talk versions with Taunt, Swagger the hell out of the other ones, and is immune to one of the STAB moves, while not being affected by CM/NP boosts.
Wynaut, Ursaring, Bibarel (obviously).
Wynaut has been quite awesome on my team. I've been using a rather weird EV spread, which lets me outspeed 0 Speed EV Spiritomb by 1 point, letting me shut off his CMs. Then, I used X-Act's defense EV applet to work the defense/hp EVs, because unlike Wobb, Wynaut actually does need HP EVs. I also use a Focus Sash to either Counter/Mirror Coat a strong hit, or so that I can Encore a Ghost move for Ursaring or Bibarel. I've been thinking about trying this strategy with a BD Linoone to complement it for a lategame sweep, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.
He's the thing that protects me from getting destroyed by Stall teams, because he can trap the pokemon, Encore what is most likely a support move, and then I can switch over to Bibarel and then pull off the Bread n' Butter Super Fang the switch-in combo. It took me a long time to get used to using Wynaut though, because unlike Wobb, he is very frail even with a lot of defensive EVs.
Wynaut doesn't seem nearly as dominating as Wobbuffet IMO. Unlike Wobb, he dies very quickly, and he can't come in several times either, so if his setup fails, he's most likely dead weight unless you carry a Wishpasser too. Also, there are quite a few things that carry U-Turn in UU right now, so Wynaut only really works against Walls or some setup sweepers (with very good prediction).
Ursaring has swept a few times for me. I use Facade/Close Combat/Crunch/Swords Dance w/Quick Feet and Toxic Orb. Facade is incredibly strong after a Swords Dance, even nearly 2HKOing Registeel after a Swords Dance with only max Attack and a Jolly nature. Close Combat murders any Normals/Steels/Rocks that try to wall Facade. Crunch takes care of Ghosts that wall Facade. Ursaring unfortunately does have problems with Spiritomb...
The biggest problem with this Ursaring is that he is absolutely screwed by anything that has Sub since Poison damage increases quickly. Also, he dies extremely quickly during his sweep, even without the help of the opponent. However, he is a good glass cannon sweeper. Remember though, Ursaring CAN be built to be very bulky, just that this particular one isn't.
Bibarel is my personal favourite, and he's always worked well for me in OU, so I thought, why not give him a shot in his home tier? I use my favourite set, which is Tauntarel (see the analysis for details). If there's something to get rid of annoying Toxic Spikes, this thing can work wonders. The basic strategy is to Taunt walls, cut them down with Super Fang, screw attackers with Swagger, stop support moves with more Taunting, etc.
It's interesting how many things it actually counters though. If you need a 100% counter for several Belly Drummers, Unaware ignores their Belly Drum, rendering foes like BellyZard useless. Problems with Cosmic Power Clefable? Bibarel doesn't mind, because Unaware ignores the Defensive boosts, and even then it doesn't matter because Super Fang would take off half current health anyway. He can stop most stat uppers and save the team from a sweep very easily. However, he does have trouble with stuff like Raikou for obvious reasons. Choice sweepers will also give him a problem too, though they will still risk 50% of their health coming off, or being Swaggered. Yawn is another good status in place of Swagger, since it can really stop sweeps by putting the opponent to sleep. However, Swagger is better considering how it functions with Unaware, and Yawn doesn't work after Sleep Clause as well.
Tauntarel can take these three just fine by himself for reasons mentioned above. :]
It may not seem like it can be Spiritomb, but unless Spiritomb has absolute max special attack and HP Fighting, it's going to be very difficult for Spiritomb to win. Bibarel can shut off Sleep Talk versions with Taunt, Swagger the hell out of the other ones, and is immune to one of the STAB moves, while not being affected by CM/NP boosts.
Bibarel is cool, i used back in the old UU and worked pretty well. I didnt use tauntarel though, I used the Curse set with simple and Waterfall, Return and QA. I may start using it again as there isnt deadly fast Hitmonlees and Hitmontops running around anymore, and waterfall OHKOs Blaziken
I just got done fighting a Slaking, he used Pursuit on my Froslass, I ate it and survived, I then switched on the next turn anticipating him to either loaf around or switch, and he successfully pursuited again, killing my Froslass.
Anyone else had anything similar happen? I'm guessing this is just a glitch in Shoddy...
So far I've fought 2 or 3 Wynauts and they haven't given me any trouble yet. Also fought one Perish-trapper Mismagius, which would've given me trouble but he happened to trap my Uxie first (who has U-turn), blowing his surprise and rendering it mostly useless.
Anyone else had anything similar happen? I'm guessing this is just a glitch in Shoddy...
So far I've fought 2 or 3 Wynauts and they haven't given me any trouble yet. Also fought one Perish-trapper Mismagius, which would've given me trouble but he happened to trap my Uxie first (who has U-turn), blowing his surprise and rendering it mostly useless.
One thing I can say about the new UU:
Damn, this is a lot more fun than the old UU. xD
Whether that is because we have all these new toys, or just because the game's a lot more dynamic with stronger pokemon and a wider breadth of strategies, remains to be seen.
Damn, this is a lot more fun than the old UU. xD
Whether that is because we have all these new toys, or just because the game's a lot more dynamic with stronger pokemon and a wider breadth of strategies, remains to be seen.
Man, Dragonair didn't work out too well. After a few battles, I can say it just can't be a good DD pokemon. It has decent power and can OHKO a few things after a DD with outrage, but other than that its all bad. She's far too frail to switch in at any point, even not very effective attacks can put a dent in her, and the Yache Berry didn't help much, as Ice Beam still hurts a lot. That and unless its very late game, Dragonair is useless. I mean, setting up DD early on is useless as whatever their counter is can almost always wall you with just 1 DD, and mid-game all it can do is fire off a t-wave if its LUCKY. Can't take a hit, and can't switch in..
Sad, because I like Dragonair. It can work in some cases, though it has to come in on a very... non-offensive pokemon, and if you time it right you can cripple some of your opponents faster sweepers with t-wave, and at the end game you can come in and sweep with DD + Outrage, but yeah, its extremely hard to pull off, and unless you find an opening, Dragonair is dead weight.
Also, Gallade is rather underwhelming. The few I've encountered haven't given me many problems. Though I've yet to run into a Blaziken, I'm curious to see how it fares.
Sad, because I like Dragonair. It can work in some cases, though it has to come in on a very... non-offensive pokemon, and if you time it right you can cripple some of your opponents faster sweepers with t-wave, and at the end game you can come in and sweep with DD + Outrage, but yeah, its extremely hard to pull off, and unless you find an opening, Dragonair is dead weight.
Also, Gallade is rather underwhelming. The few I've encountered haven't given me many problems. Though I've yet to run into a Blaziken, I'm curious to see how it fares.
Vacuum Wave Blaziken and CB Quick Attack Starapter are very cool . . .
I'd like to start by saying, Spiritomb is definately killable, you just need a Strong CBer. I use Blaziken for this, especially MonoTomb and i can Flare Blitz and 2HKO it while not taking much damage from Dark Pulse. Also, Registeel counters it quite well, as mine uses Iron Head as its attack, while a +6 dark pulse hurts, it doesnt even 4HKO. I also Screen and then set up with Rampardos if its resting.
Shaymin is a very STRONG pokemon, but i find it fairly easy to wall with Registeel and Light Screen. Also, consider using Regice for this too. In fact, regice is a VERY good pokemon, and should be used more often.
For random Swords Dancers, Slowbro is a good counter to many of these, as none of them can OHKO, an it can Thunder Wave to Cripple them. Also, using Claydol/Steelix to do similar things helps too. Scarfers/Fast pokemon can usually take them out too.
Shaymin is a very STRONG pokemon, but i find it fairly easy to wall with Registeel and Light Screen. Also, consider using Regice for this too. In fact, regice is a VERY good pokemon, and should be used more often.
For random Swords Dancers, Slowbro is a good counter to many of these, as none of them can OHKO, an it can Thunder Wave to Cripple them. Also, using Claydol/Steelix to do similar things helps too. Scarfers/Fast pokemon can usually take them out too.
Let's look at some calcs. All are against 384/350 standard Slowbro.
80.47% - 94.79% is Jolly Ursaring's Facade on Slowbro after a Swords Dance. That's a 46.15% chance of dying with SR. Combine that with the fact that you can't status it and you MUST have full HP to stop it and it's not all that reliable after all.
116.15% - 137.50% is Jolly Pinsir's SD LO X-Scissor. Byebye, Slowbro.
74.48% - 88.02% is Adamant Gallade's SD LO Night Slash. Chance of OHKO with SR, and still requires you to have full HP, meaning you can't come in on anything else.
92.71% - 109.90% is Jolly Drapion's SD LO Crunch. 100% chance of OHKO with SR and 59% chance otherwise.
75.00% - 88.54% is Adamant Kabutops' SD LO Stone Edge. Once again, you can't take any damage beforehand, and a Critical Hit (high CH can hurt) will stroke you.
119.27% - 140.63% is Jolly Leafeon's SD LO Leaf Blade. Dead Slowbro.
Most common SD users can absolutely demolish Slowbro, and anyone running multiple physical strikers will smash Slowbro silly.
I have honestly yet to seen a sword dance go off. I've certainly seen Gallades (and 1 kabutops), but honestly it kind of lacks the defenses to really set up. Against a really offensive team anyway . . .
The others SDS has mentioned I have yet to see, though of course being said that the experience of 1 player means jack.
Shaymin's natural cure rest is awesome
The others SDS has mentioned I have yet to see, though of course being said that the experience of 1 player means jack.
Shaymin's natural cure rest is awesome
I've seen at least 3 people using Wynaut today, not including Bologo. Perhaps his trapping abilities are more useful than I thought. One silly battler used him as a lead, which kind of ruins the surprise.
I've seen one Bibarel as a BP recipient. With +2 Spe, +2 Atk and Simple he was literally unstoppable. (And that's no exaggeration; I can't think of a single thing that could wall or kill him, barring Focus Sash. I suppose if he was forced to use 2 Superpowers he'd be pretty worn out, but then you'd be 2 guys down.)
I've not had a single problem with Spiritomb yet. He might pose a bigger threat to stall teams, but 4 of my team members can 2HKO it, the fifth Taunts it and the sixth can outstall it.
I've been experimenting with a super stallish Registeel as a fallback option. Curse/Amnesia/Metal Claw/Rest. Metal Claw because it has 64 pp (on Shoddy; should be 56) and nothing is immune to it. The premise is similar to Acupressure Shuckle. Basically I sponge a resisted hit here and there but don't set up until Registeel is the last poke standing. And then I hope they don't have a statup sweeper left. Maxing out my stats isn't very hard since I'm already walling everything. Yes, crits can penetrate my statups, but with optimised defenses most unboosted critical hits, even SE ones, fail to do more than 60% or so. (Things like Shaymin's Earth Power or Slowbro's Flamethrower.) Also, +6 SpA Mono Spiritomb's Dark Pulse deals 54-63% on a crit, so this thing stalls it to hell and back.
I have Vacuum Wave on my Blaziken, mostly because I just based him on my build of Mixape when I put him on. It works fairly well as a general purpose priority attack, although there are far fewer Special-frail fighting weaks in this metagame (compared to OU).
I've seen one Bibarel as a BP recipient. With +2 Spe, +2 Atk and Simple he was literally unstoppable. (And that's no exaggeration; I can't think of a single thing that could wall or kill him, barring Focus Sash. I suppose if he was forced to use 2 Superpowers he'd be pretty worn out, but then you'd be 2 guys down.)
I've not had a single problem with Spiritomb yet. He might pose a bigger threat to stall teams, but 4 of my team members can 2HKO it, the fifth Taunts it and the sixth can outstall it.
I've been experimenting with a super stallish Registeel as a fallback option. Curse/Amnesia/Metal Claw/Rest. Metal Claw because it has 64 pp (on Shoddy; should be 56) and nothing is immune to it. The premise is similar to Acupressure Shuckle. Basically I sponge a resisted hit here and there but don't set up until Registeel is the last poke standing. And then I hope they don't have a statup sweeper left. Maxing out my stats isn't very hard since I'm already walling everything. Yes, crits can penetrate my statups, but with optimised defenses most unboosted critical hits, even SE ones, fail to do more than 60% or so. (Things like Shaymin's Earth Power or Slowbro's Flamethrower.) Also, +6 SpA Mono Spiritomb's Dark Pulse deals 54-63% on a crit, so this thing stalls it to hell and back.
I have Vacuum Wave on my Blaziken, mostly because I just based him on my build of Mixape when I put him on. It works fairly well as a general purpose priority attack, although there are far fewer Special-frail fighting weaks in this metagame (compared to OU).
Late response, but I noticed that no one else replied to this post.
I would not give too much weight to declarations about the 'offensiveness' of a given metagame in a month or more of battling, let alone a week or a few days. DP OU was also ridiculously offensive metagame in the first months; everyone thought it would be impossible to use stall teams successfully in this game. Enter: Obi and his stall team. Even in the even more ridiculously offensive DP Ubers metagame, I've seen successful stall teams, namely by Ancien Regime (iirc).
Ugh, i just got walled by a Defensively bulky Wish Shelgon with protect. It was a stall team to, so toxic ruined one of my pokes, and my CBer got knock offed =(. Was very surprised at how it absorbed physical hits, and how I couldnt break it
AmbiNastypasser swept me when it passed +2 speed and +2 sp atk to shaymin.
Taunt
Agility
Nasty Plot
Baton Pass
My opponent had dual screens up and switched in Ambipom on a ko. Basically I switched, expecting fake out, and it agility'd. So I switched to my phazer and it Nasty Plotted. phazer got taunted. Sweep ensues.
Its a great strategy and one that I warn everybody to watch out for.
Taunt
Agility
Nasty Plot
Baton Pass
My opponent had dual screens up and switched in Ambipom on a ko. Basically I switched, expecting fake out, and it agility'd. So I switched to my phazer and it Nasty Plotted. phazer got taunted. Sweep ensues.
Its a great strategy and one that I warn everybody to watch out for.
I agree with darkie.
Besides there are tons of awesome pokemon that are very useful defensively-- hariyama, milotic, shaymin all seem like real stand outs in the metagame so far. Albeit, I prefer Bulky-sweeper/offensive-tank to pure stall.
Besides there are tons of awesome pokemon that are very useful defensively-- hariyama, milotic, shaymin all seem like real stand outs in the metagame so far. Albeit, I prefer Bulky-sweeper/offensive-tank to pure stall.
Rock Polish Torterra is really good in New UU, which is great because I love Torterra, but using him in OU just didn't work out. His weaknesses (and initial slowness) keep him from being too much of a threat though, and I think (and hope) he's going to stay in UU, where he can actually shine. Heh. Rock Polish....shine....heh.
So far Raikou and Shaymin are the only ones I really had problems with. Shaymin easily swept my team with Seed Flare/HP Ice/Earth Power. Raikou...I don't even know what's supposed to counter Raikou.
Gallade is strong, but he's also slow, and so far he hasn't made me want to reach into my monitor and strangle him, unlike a certain legendary grass type.
So far Raikou and Shaymin are the only ones I really had problems with. Shaymin easily swept my team with Seed Flare/HP Ice/Earth Power. Raikou...I don't even know what's supposed to counter Raikou.
Gallade is strong, but he's also slow, and so far he hasn't made me want to reach into my monitor and strangle him, unlike a certain legendary grass type.
I've been winning a lot with Charge Beam Regice. A couple of boosts and its Ice Beam is a lethal weapon. Seen a few Magmortars, those seem to do well. Calm Mind Raikou is a pain though...
Also using a Drapion set up specifically to abuse Sniper, to great effect. Give it Scope Lens, and use High crit moves. Not the most scary sweeper out there, but it has saved me so many times...
Also using a Drapion set up specifically to abuse Sniper, to great effect. Give it Scope Lens, and use High crit moves. Not the most scary sweeper out there, but it has saved me so many times...
I've been running a Naughty Blaziken with Fire Blast / Stone Edge / HP Grass / Sky Uppercut.
It breaks walls left and right, 2HKOing everything in the process at the least. The likes of Slowbro and Gastrodon are 2HKOed and OHKOed by HP Grass, while things like Altaria get hit by Stone Edge.
-I"ve also found that while Milotic is great on defense, the offensive LO set works wonders as well. Her natural bulk lets her take hits well, then unleash powerful Hydro Pumps left and right.
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