I think people have to realise that a lot of pokemon have more than one possible moveset. Raikou, for example, may have a really rubbish movepool on the face of it, but I have managed to successfully run a choice specs set with Thunderbolt/Shadow Ball/Signal Beam/HP Ground. Signal Beam is for most of the grass types and HP Ground is for other electric types and Steelix that like to come in on Raikou.
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np: UU - A New Beginning
- Thread starter RBG
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Roserade is ridiculous good IMO, it's able to set up both sets of Spikes easily. In 90% of battles it can lay full layers of both types since most things are scared of STAB leaf storm or grass knot (blastoise, claydol both solid spinners) and it can come in on other Roserade, waters and grassers in general . And Natural Cure Rest means it can come in later and spike up again.
There's already a special defensive drapion set in the analysis, I know cos I wrote it :-D
chris is me said:
There's already a special defensive drapion set in the analysis, I know cos I wrote it :-D
I strongly agree about the usefulness of Roserade. One of the greatest changes between the old UU and the new UU is the usefulness of Toxic Spikes. Almost every old UU team had a grounded Poison type, so Toxic Spikes were near-useless. Since that isn't the case anymore, Toxic Spikes are a lot more useful. Any new UU team without a grounded Poison type will regret it sooner rather than later.
Good thing Spikes and Leaf Storm appear to be incompatible egg moves, as do Spikes and Sleep Powder. (Spikes comes from Cacturne, Glalie, and Froslass, while none of those 3 learns Leaf Storm or Sleep Powder. Still trying to figure out why people say Spikes and Toxic Spikes are illegal together.)
New UU!! God I LOVE it. It's so interesting seeing what Pokemon are being used. Anyways, this is what I've seen in UU. Uhm..
Staraptor
Azumerril
Harriyama
Milotic
Mismagious
Crobat
Roserade
Blaziken
Abomasnow
Raikou
I don't think I've seem a team without at least one of them... and for good reason. These are some of the best Pokemon that UU has to offer. Of course this is from my experiences. Notice how not a single "old" UU Pokemon made the list. Not even Rotom, Clefable, Steelix, and even Claydoll. Don't get me wrong Clefable and Lix is seeing some usuage but Rotom and Claydoll aren't seeing the love no more.
How about Pokemon that needs more love...
Shellgon
Piloswine
Machoke
Magneton
Gligar
Metang
Honchkrow
I don't feel like listing out all of thier individual qualities. But these are definately some over looked pokes. Piloswine, Metang, and Magneton in particular.
Uhm.. move usage and the value of them..
Entry Hazards: (T) Spikes and Stealth Rock. Easy to setup and keep up. The lack of a decent spinner is aggrivating but thus makes the next move invaluable...
Taunt: In my opinion, everyteam NEEDs a Taunt user. Theres so much setting up going on its redicoulous.
Pursuit: Lots of Pokemon are Vunerable to Pursuit. Lots of switching makes for easy targets.
Encore: Encore ruins stallrien and plenty of other things. This move is another staple.
Haze: Is now more or less a viable move. Check the list of pokes who learn it you may be surprised.
Uhm... there are a couple of others. I'll do them later. Just consider those moves when making a team.
Additional Notes:
Weather: Weather in UU is different than OU. Different pokemon different scenarios. I myself used a Sandstorm team for a bit and had trouble beating out Sunny Day and Rain Dance teams. While oddly enough Hail teams were relativly easy to beat.
"Cryers": Wow, I've never experienced so much comlaing in matches. OMFG crithax! As if the person could control it... Stop whinning people.
Finally pokemon that I've personally had success with.
Jumpluff@ Leftovers
~ Leech Seed
~ Substitute
~ Stun Spore
~ Encore
Slaking@ Choice Scarf
~ Encore
~ Return
~ Earthquake
~ Pursuit
Lanturn@ Life Orb
~ Surf
~ Charge Beam
~ Ice Beam
~ Agility
Golduck@ Life Orb
~ Hydro Pump
~ Ice Beam
~ X-Chop
~ Confuse Ray
and a poke that I want to test here in the near future...
Hitmonlee@ Leftovers
~ Forsight
~ Close Combat
~ Rapid Spin
~ Sucker Punch
Staraptor
Azumerril
Harriyama
Milotic
Mismagious
Crobat
Roserade
Blaziken
Abomasnow
Raikou
I don't think I've seem a team without at least one of them... and for good reason. These are some of the best Pokemon that UU has to offer. Of course this is from my experiences. Notice how not a single "old" UU Pokemon made the list. Not even Rotom, Clefable, Steelix, and even Claydoll. Don't get me wrong Clefable and Lix is seeing some usuage but Rotom and Claydoll aren't seeing the love no more.
How about Pokemon that needs more love...
Shellgon
Piloswine
Machoke
Magneton
Gligar
Metang
Honchkrow
I don't feel like listing out all of thier individual qualities. But these are definately some over looked pokes. Piloswine, Metang, and Magneton in particular.
Uhm.. move usage and the value of them..
Entry Hazards: (T) Spikes and Stealth Rock. Easy to setup and keep up. The lack of a decent spinner is aggrivating but thus makes the next move invaluable...
Taunt: In my opinion, everyteam NEEDs a Taunt user. Theres so much setting up going on its redicoulous.
Pursuit: Lots of Pokemon are Vunerable to Pursuit. Lots of switching makes for easy targets.
Encore: Encore ruins stallrien and plenty of other things. This move is another staple.
Haze: Is now more or less a viable move. Check the list of pokes who learn it you may be surprised.
Uhm... there are a couple of others. I'll do them later. Just consider those moves when making a team.
Additional Notes:
Weather: Weather in UU is different than OU. Different pokemon different scenarios. I myself used a Sandstorm team for a bit and had trouble beating out Sunny Day and Rain Dance teams. While oddly enough Hail teams were relativly easy to beat.
"Cryers": Wow, I've never experienced so much comlaing in matches. OMFG crithax! As if the person could control it... Stop whinning people.
Finally pokemon that I've personally had success with.
Jumpluff@ Leftovers
~ Leech Seed
~ Substitute
~ Stun Spore
~ Encore
Slaking@ Choice Scarf
~ Encore
~ Return
~ Earthquake
~ Pursuit
Lanturn@ Life Orb
~ Surf
~ Charge Beam
~ Ice Beam
~ Agility
Golduck@ Life Orb
~ Hydro Pump
~ Ice Beam
~ X-Chop
~ Confuse Ray
and a poke that I want to test here in the near future...
Hitmonlee@ Leftovers
~ Forsight
~ Close Combat
~ Rapid Spin
~ Sucker Punch
I wouldn't say there's no good spinners in the new UU. In fact, Claydol is a perfectly usable spinner.
Claydol@Choice Scarf
Trick
Rapid Spin
*something*
*something else*
Makes switching in Spiritomb one hell of a lot riskier. It's also immune to both spike types and resists SR. Foresight+Rapid Spin is also an option on Blastoise and Hitmonlee, although Hitmonlee's atrocious defense could be its undoing here.
Claydol@Choice Scarf
Trick
Rapid Spin
*something*
*something else*
Makes switching in Spiritomb one hell of a lot riskier. It's also immune to both spike types and resists SR. Foresight+Rapid Spin is also an option on Blastoise and Hitmonlee, although Hitmonlee's atrocious defense could be its undoing here.
Yes, Kanghaskhan and Miltank have both been mentioned as decent counters. I think you might want to include a fighting move on that set with Scrappy, as it hits Spiritomb for SE damage, and at least do something to Steelix. I hear Taunt works for those Calm Mind Mono attacking Spiritombs too. :naughty:
ah yes, that would definitely be better. i forgot that when you remove the immunity, Spiritomb does actually have a weakness. that's definitely the route i would go if i was laddering. and if he starts showing up on wi-fi, i'll have to get me a good Kanga to use.
Yes, Kangaskahn is an excellent Spiritomb counter. Sub/Focus Punch/Return/Sucker Punch or Wish works very well. Its also a pretty bulky pokemon too. Ive been using it since my first NuU team, and its a staple and the reason i canusually pull of a rapid spin easily
Then use Hitmontop. Why Hitmonlee anyway? Spinning is a waste of its attacking potential and like you said risky with its horrible defense. Hitmontop has decent all-round defenses and therefore can afford the setup turns much more often. Even Hitmonchan would work better than Lee for this role.
I don't mean to get on your case Chris, but that Drapion is a counter to only 1 of Raikou's 3 lethal sets. And if they figure out thats your counter they can chip away at its HP until a sweep opens up. See:
252 SpA Choice Specs Thunderbolt vs. Max HP / Max SpD Drapion 54-64%
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Thunderbolt vs. Max HP / Max SpD Drapion 70-83%
252 SpA Life Orb Thunderbolt vs. Max HP / Max SpD Drapion 47-55%
So if you end up facing one of the more heavily offensive Raikou, your fucked... hard.
This is true, although not many people actually know this so you can bluff it and Grass Knot is still threatening to the two most common spinners in Blastoise and Claydol.
I've been running Grass Knot / Spikes / T Spikes / Rest and the ability to set up 5 layers of spikes is much better than a random sleep, especially with all these sleep talkers around.
TechmonTop has proven to be a good anti-lead, especially against Frosslass and Electrode suicide/setup leads, 2HKOing with Fake Out + Bullet Punch/Mach Punch, respectively. Also does handily against Abomasnow.
EDIT: Yeah, it just takes 2 Bullet Punches (One to remove the sash) to take out Frosslass. Still, it'll only ever get up one layer of spikes. TechmonTop w/ Close Combat also 2HKOs Registeel leads who stay in and try to SR.
EDIT: Yeah, it just takes 2 Bullet Punches (One to remove the sash) to take out Frosslass. Still, it'll only ever get up one layer of spikes. TechmonTop w/ Close Combat also 2HKOs Registeel leads who stay in and try to SR.
TM, what about Frosslass? As Fake Out doesn't hit it. Do you just BP twice?
Here's an overlooked lead:
Sneasel @ Focus Sash
Inner Focus
Hasty
EVs: 4/252/252 (def IV 0)
Counter
Taunt
Ice Shard
Theif
A variation on the anti-lead weavile. The main attraction here is inner focus, which lets Ambipom's fake out not flinch, activate the sash, and then he can counter back for a KO. Then, you can Taunt something like Registeel or Steelix that might come in, and then as a last hurrah, you can use Theif to steal their item. The only real reason to use Theif though, is because Sneasel doesn't get night slash. Ice Shard, of course, is a good STAB priority move, but it doesn't do a lot of damage because of his lackluster attack.
Sneasel @ Focus Sash
Inner Focus
Hasty
EVs: 4/252/252 (def IV 0)
Counter
Taunt
Ice Shard
Theif
A variation on the anti-lead weavile. The main attraction here is inner focus, which lets Ambipom's fake out not flinch, activate the sash, and then he can counter back for a KO. Then, you can Taunt something like Registeel or Steelix that might come in, and then as a last hurrah, you can use Theif to steal their item. The only real reason to use Theif though, is because Sneasel doesn't get night slash. Ice Shard, of course, is a good STAB priority move, but it doesn't do a lot of damage because of his lackluster attack.
I thought about Max HP/Max Def Impish Metang being solid counter for Staraptor, but bad news is that it's 2OHKOed by Adamant Close Combat. But it safely switches on ScarfRaptor or Jolly CB one and threaten it with elemental punch or STAB Meteor Mash. Also thanks to Clear Body Staraptor Intimidiate won't affect it. But if you need Staraptor check, Metang is solid choice. And it would also easily survive Altarias EQ and KO it with Ice Punch. But I guess his HP is something, that looks bad. Only 5 HP stat points more and we would have Staraptor counter.
Ghost itself isn't weak to fighting. Dark is what's weak to fighting (Spiritomb is half Dark half Ghost)
Ghost takes normal damage when hit with Fighting (via scrappy or foresight).
Ghost takes normal damage when hit with Fighting (via scrappy or foresight).
Milotic can Hypnosis things, which is pretty useful. Haze isn't bad either. Slowbro can CM up and sweep, it can also use Twave. The main point is that their defenses are higher than anything in the old UU.
Skuntank counters CM Mismagius and other special attackers better than Drapion by virtue of better overall Special Defense. Just saying.
Raikou can some coverage issues. It needs HP Grass to beat the Water/Grounds, but Grass/Electric is walled by grass types who can beat Raikou as long as they use physical attacks. Shadow Ball and Extrasensory don't really add to its coverage that much and obviously can't be used along with Tbolt and a Hidden Power. I'm not sure if Raikou is overpowered, but it isn't unstoppable.
Skuntank counters CM Mismagius and other special attackers better than Drapion by virtue of better overall Special Defense. Just saying.
Raikou can some coverage issues. It needs HP Grass to beat the Water/Grounds, but Grass/Electric is walled by grass types who can beat Raikou as long as they use physical attacks. Shadow Ball and Extrasensory don't really add to its coverage that much and obviously can't be used along with Tbolt and a Hidden Power. I'm not sure if Raikou is overpowered, but it isn't unstoppable.
In my experience, gallade and staraptor can really tear through teams in the current metagame.
Also, for those people who want a staraptor counter, use max hp / max def luxray. Staraptors CB return is a 3HKO, while you scare it out and can use protect to gain lefties recovery.
Also, for those people who want a staraptor counter, use max hp / max def luxray. Staraptors CB return is a 3HKO, while you scare it out and can use protect to gain lefties recovery.
Torterra makes a fine counter for a HP Grass Raikou, and Steelix can take on HP Ice versions quite easily. Chansey is not daunted by either, and neither is Clefable, to a lesser extent. Then of course, we have the classic BoltBeam resisting Lanturn, who takes very little from any of Raikou's attacks, but can't really do too much back. Raikou has high stats for an UU, bit it is a manageable threat because of its poor coverage. To be quite blunt, I find Mismagius and Entei to be more efficient Calm Minders simply because they can get past Chansey, which Raikou can almost never hope to manage.
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