Oh yeah, forgot. Only Toxicroak resist that combination. My bad. But anyway it works. At least for me.
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Oh yeah, forgot. Only Toxicroak resist that combination. My bad. But anyway it works. At least for me.
Toxic does more to bulky waters than thunderfang so TF seems kinda redundant. It's also kind of weak even if it does hit fliers.
Overheat works as it has tons of power without being affected by intimidate yourself (eg Staraptor). Fire spin has the interesting trapping ability but crappy power and accuracy. Since thunderfang seems to kind of be filler just about anymove could go there. Overheat is your best option I would feel.
The idea to get around destiny bond inspired the usage of this move set (basically ripped from analysis, but is used differently).
Torkoal @lum berry
Lava Plume
Stealth Rock
Rapid Spin
Toxic/Will-O-wisp
Lum berry is basiclly for jumpluff and roserade so leftovers could go there if Roserade gets bumped back up to OU.
Ambipom- SR on U-turn or attack after fake out. Toxic or WOW if they stay in for some reason. Lava plume is still a good attack if you are taunted.
Starraptor- Stealh Rock turn 1, WOW then lava plume away
Frosslass- Lava Plume and hope for burn. If not, Toxic or WOW to bypass Destiny Bond. SR on switch in or rapid spin to waste it's spikes. Note: Frosslass has taunt in her movepool but leads are using it yet.
Roselia- Lava Plume hope for burn on sashed set. Ev's need to be checked to make sure that lava plume has enough oomph to OHKO. Spin away it's wasted life on the next turn.
Crobat- SR then Lava plume. WOW if it's the physical kind
It's effective against the physical leads as it has Base 140 def. The only thing I need to check is if a neutral based no SpAtt ev's invested lava plume will do enough damage to Scarf or Sashed Roselia to be effective.
I don't like the solution for most of the common lead.
Crobat and Ambipom can taunt you if they thought you were going to attack. For the focuz sash users, the set rely too much on burn to kill them.
I would use it if some kind of fire priority attack existed.
*Working on a LO-Hippowdon.
Here's what I got so far:
Hippo@LO
216atk/116def/40sp.def/136hp
-Slack Off
-EQ
-Fire Fang/Ice Fang
-Stone Edge/Thunder Fang
This thing is pretty similar to a CBhippo, but it has more freedom than CB, while sacrificing a lot of phsical bulk.
Slack off to heal is obvious.
EQ as standard attack.
Fire Fang to stop bulky roost Scizor from setting up on you, and to hit grass and floating steels.
Stone Edge is to hit a lot of bird with one stone. Its main target is salamence and gyrados.
The evs given doesn't always OHKO 0/0 mence and 0/0 dos after intimidate, but it always does without intimidate. so thunder fang and ice fang can be used to stop these thing. The only thing that resist the rock/ground/fire combination in ou is flygon. Ice fang can also be used for that.
The defense evs can make it take a grass knot from celebi, a DDed Outrage from mence, a DDed LO-less waterfall from max+ gyra.
It's kind of like a Mi-LO-tit, except milotic excels at special attack and defense, while this guy excels at attack and defense. It's like the exact opposite. And milotic is so much faster.
Crobat and Ambipom can taunt you if they thought you were going to attack. For the focuz sash users, the set rely too much on burn to kill them.
I would use it if some kind of fire priority attack existed.
*Working on a LO-Hippowdon.
Here's what I got so far:
Hippo@LO
216atk/116def/40sp.def/136hp
-Slack Off
-EQ
-Fire Fang/Ice Fang
-Stone Edge/Thunder Fang
This thing is pretty similar to a CBhippo, but it has more freedom than CB, while sacrificing a lot of phsical bulk.
Slack off to heal is obvious.
EQ as standard attack.
Fire Fang to stop bulky roost Scizor from setting up on you, and to hit grass and floating steels.
Stone Edge is to hit a lot of bird with one stone. Its main target is salamence and gyrados.
The evs given doesn't always OHKO 0/0 mence and 0/0 dos after intimidate, but it always does without intimidate. so thunder fang and ice fang can be used to stop these thing. The only thing that resist the rock/ground/fire combination in ou is flygon. Ice fang can also be used for that.
The defense evs can make it take a grass knot from celebi, a DDed Outrage from mence, a DDed LO-less waterfall from max+ gyra.
It's kind of like a Mi-LO-tit, except milotic excels at special attack and defense, while this guy excels at attack and defense. It's like the exact opposite. And milotic is so much faster.
Except that the one thing Hippo's good for is tanking hits. It can survive with CB, but 10% for lefties is stupid, especially when it doesn't have the speed of Milotic.
The big flaw is that it has to take a hit before hitting, so i guess that's was a dumb idea after all. LO recoil can possibly kill you after you take a hit. Now I got that cleared up, LO hippo is a dumb idea.
Well, as much as I shouldn't, I'm going to post a set that I've tried to some degree. It still needs fine tuning (mainly with EVs and strategy), but it's not bad. Gimmicky as of right now, but after some adjustments it could be something special.
Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Careful || Water Absorb
252 HP/ 252 Sp Def / 4 Def
~Curse
~Wish/Rest
~Waterfall
~Frustration
One may question, "Curse Vaporeon?" I actually did get this response. Curse has interested me for awhile. Well after searching the users for awhile, I figured Curse Flareon would be decent if his movepool was better. Then it donned on me: Curse Vaporeon. Like Flareon, Vaporeon has a stellar Special Defense stat and a much better HP stat. The attack stat is pretty bad, but that is remedied by Curse for the most part. After comparing stats with the king of Curse, Snorlax, and looking at the moveset of Azumarill, I figured it would be viable.
But why use Vaporeon and not Snorlax? Snorlax has better Special Defense, HP, and Attack stats, the first two being really important for a curser. There are 2 things that set Vaporeon apart as a curser; arguably better typing and access to better healing (if chosen). Water is often held as the best single type in the game due to it's all around defensive capabilities, resisting common types such as steel, fire, and ice (Snorlax can technically resist the last 2 because of Thick Fat). Vaporeon is also completely immune to water attacks, gaining free healing if she comes in on one. As for personal healing, Vaporeon has access to Wish, meaning that if she preemptively using the move, she can stat up and gain healing the next turn. This prevents her from sleeping and letting the opponent set up. Rest can be used if Toxic is an issue (and trust me, it can be).
Water + Normal hits everything for at least neutral aside from Empoleon (which won't be doing anything back) and Shedinja. Vaporeon also gets the handy dandy STAB for Waterfall, but sadly lacks it on Frustration. Last Resort is an option, but most switchings to Vaporeon will resist Water.
Problems: It can't switch into physical threats without the initial investment of standard Vaporeon, so some EVs there might help tremendously. As mentioned, Toxic kills this set without Rest. Other than that, problems differentiating from Snorlax is the only obstacle.
Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Careful || Water Absorb
252 HP/ 252 Sp Def / 4 Def
~Curse
~Wish/Rest
~Waterfall
~Frustration
One may question, "Curse Vaporeon?" I actually did get this response. Curse has interested me for awhile. Well after searching the users for awhile, I figured Curse Flareon would be decent if his movepool was better. Then it donned on me: Curse Vaporeon. Like Flareon, Vaporeon has a stellar Special Defense stat and a much better HP stat. The attack stat is pretty bad, but that is remedied by Curse for the most part. After comparing stats with the king of Curse, Snorlax, and looking at the moveset of Azumarill, I figured it would be viable.
But why use Vaporeon and not Snorlax? Snorlax has better Special Defense, HP, and Attack stats, the first two being really important for a curser. There are 2 things that set Vaporeon apart as a curser; arguably better typing and access to better healing (if chosen). Water is often held as the best single type in the game due to it's all around defensive capabilities, resisting common types such as steel, fire, and ice (Snorlax can technically resist the last 2 because of Thick Fat). Vaporeon is also completely immune to water attacks, gaining free healing if she comes in on one. As for personal healing, Vaporeon has access to Wish, meaning that if she preemptively using the move, she can stat up and gain healing the next turn. This prevents her from sleeping and letting the opponent set up. Rest can be used if Toxic is an issue (and trust me, it can be).
Water + Normal hits everything for at least neutral aside from Empoleon (which won't be doing anything back) and Shedinja. Vaporeon also gets the handy dandy STAB for Waterfall, but sadly lacks it on Frustration. Last Resort is an option, but most switchings to Vaporeon will resist Water.
Problems: It can't switch into physical threats without the initial investment of standard Vaporeon, so some EVs there might help tremendously. As mentioned, Toxic kills this set without Rest. Other than that, problems differentiating from Snorlax is the only obstacle.
I got a new one for ya: CM Lucario.
Lucario @ Life Orb
EVs: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 SpD
Nature: Modest
Calm Mind
Aura Sphere
Shadow Ball
Vacuum Wave
The trick here is that this Lucario is significantly more specially defensive than the average one you see. This allows you to lure out the standard things that think they can do a good amount to it with Special Attacks, then make yourself resilient to them with Calm Minds. Once they realize what the problem is, you've got several CMs under your belt. Lucario's +2 Aura Sphere can 2HKO Blissey unless she's got a heavy Special Defense investment. Shadow Ball provides perfect coverage with Aura Sphere, and Vacuum Wave gives Lucario a way to circumvent his lack of speed. Great for wrecking Walls and Stall Teams.
Lucario @ Life Orb
EVs: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 SpD
Nature: Modest
Calm Mind
Aura Sphere
Shadow Ball
Vacuum Wave
The trick here is that this Lucario is significantly more specially defensive than the average one you see. This allows you to lure out the standard things that think they can do a good amount to it with Special Attacks, then make yourself resilient to them with Calm Minds. Once they realize what the problem is, you've got several CMs under your belt. Lucario's +2 Aura Sphere can 2HKO Blissey unless she's got a heavy Special Defense investment. Shadow Ball provides perfect coverage with Aura Sphere, and Vacuum Wave gives Lucario a way to circumvent his lack of speed. Great for wrecking Walls and Stall Teams.
Like mentioned in the analysis Specs is faster and Lucario does not have the defenses for Calm Mind, or the HP, and with a 4x resistance to Stealth Rock he has no problems switching in and out.
calm mind lucario has been done before i think the set was cm/aura sphere/shadow ball/substitute with leftovers by bologo a while ago
I recently made this set as almost novelty, but it turned out to work quite well...
Absol (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Super Luck
EVs: 112 HP/144 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Thunder Wave
- Attract / Superpower
The main purpose of this set is to set up as many SD's as possible, before starting a sweep with Sucker Punch and/or Superpower. Thunder Wave is the main method of stalling out the opponent, allowing an SD. On Shoddy, Atract is also useful to stall, as everyone auto-picks male as their gender, making an almost para-flinch situation. Superpower can also help make up for coverage.
The 252 Spe is obvious. 144 Atk allows him, after 1 SD, to always 2HKO normal Hippowdon. The rest i put into HP for survivability.
I'm not all to good with EVs, so help there would be, well, helpful
Damage Calcs After one SD:
Sucker Punch...
Max HP/152 Def, Impish, Hippo: 57.62% - 67.62%
Max HP Impish Gliscor: 74.01% - 87.29%
Max HP Bold Celebi: 157.18% - 184.65%
Max HP/Max Def Bold Cresselia 100.00% - 117.57%
Max HP/ 176 Def Skarmory 62.28% - 73.05%
Max Hp/Max Def Bold Suicune 56.68% - 66.58%
Superpower...
Max HP/96 Def Relaxed Forrtress 62.15% - 72.88%
Max HP/80 Def Sassy Bronzong 84.32% - 99.11%
Max HP/Max Def Bold Blissey 175.77% - 206.86%
These are the major walls in OU, all of them atleast 2HKO'ed after a single SD, not factoring in SR damage. If he manages to get up 2 SD's, most of these will turn into OHKO's with SR.
It is important to get rid of phasers before using this, as they will completly stuff you up
Absol (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Super Luck
EVs: 112 HP/144 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Thunder Wave
- Attract / Superpower
The main purpose of this set is to set up as many SD's as possible, before starting a sweep with Sucker Punch and/or Superpower. Thunder Wave is the main method of stalling out the opponent, allowing an SD. On Shoddy, Atract is also useful to stall, as everyone auto-picks male as their gender, making an almost para-flinch situation. Superpower can also help make up for coverage.
The 252 Spe is obvious. 144 Atk allows him, after 1 SD, to always 2HKO normal Hippowdon. The rest i put into HP for survivability.
I'm not all to good with EVs, so help there would be, well, helpful
Damage Calcs After one SD:
Sucker Punch...
Max HP/152 Def, Impish, Hippo: 57.62% - 67.62%
Max HP Impish Gliscor: 74.01% - 87.29%
Max HP Bold Celebi: 157.18% - 184.65%
Max HP/Max Def Bold Cresselia 100.00% - 117.57%
Max HP/ 176 Def Skarmory 62.28% - 73.05%
Max Hp/Max Def Bold Suicune 56.68% - 66.58%
Superpower...
Max HP/96 Def Relaxed Forrtress 62.15% - 72.88%
Max HP/80 Def Sassy Bronzong 84.32% - 99.11%
Max HP/Max Def Bold Blissey 175.77% - 206.86%
These are the major walls in OU, all of them atleast 2HKO'ed after a single SD, not factoring in SR damage. If he manages to get up 2 SD's, most of these will turn into OHKO's with SR.
It is important to get rid of phasers before using this, as they will completly stuff you up
Here's a cool set that came to mind:
Forretress
name: NOT Electrode
- Rock Polish
- Earthquake
- Rain Dance
- Explosion
@ Damp Rock
Jolly
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Forretress is known to be a dreadfully slow Pokemon; in fact, it is best to completely reduce its Speed in IVs, EVs, and nature, to power up Gyro Ball. However, this set throws out that mentality entirely and uses max Speed EVs with a positive Speed nature!
Rock Polish makes taking on Magnezone much safer, because Magnezone won't outspeed it to the KO or use Magnet Rise before the Earthquake. Standard Forretress's strategy against Magnezone is Earthquaking on the switch, but a Flying-type or Levitator would get an safe switch in. At an abysmal Speed, Forretress should be hesistant to use support moves when Magnezone is on the prowl. Rock Polish turns the tables against that UFO MoFo.
Switch into a weak or resisted hit, which shouldn't be difficult given Forretress's many resistances. Then, Rock Polish on the switch, netting 392 Speed, enough to outspeed Forretress's best counters: Timid Scarf Magnezone and +1 Adamant Gyarados. Fortuitously, max Attack is just enough to OHKO 172 HP / 0 Def Magnezone (Steel Killer) with Stealth Rock. If the switch-in isn't going to get KOed by Earthquake, then immediately Rain Dance, which will halve Forretress's sole, albeit hefty, weakness. Most Fire-moves still have a great likelihood of a OHKO even in the Rain. Explode when you are done, which kill nearly everything not resistant and will create a clean opening for your Rain sweeper. You can use Spikes or Stealth Rock instead of Earthquake if OHKOing Magnezone isn't a concern (Dugtrio), but Thunderbolt will OHKO Forretress with Stealth Rock.
Be sure to be in good health, because if Forretress uses Rain Dance then max Attack Adamant Life Orb Gyarados uses Waterfall, it will do 70 - 82% damage. The best case scenario would be if Gyarados gets cocky and Dragon Dances instead of Waterfall, so +2 Forretress will still be faster to use Explosion.
-1 Explosion vs Bulky Gyarados: 82 - 96% (OHKO with SR)
-1 Explosion vs Offensive Gyarados: 100%
Forretress
name: NOT Electrode
- Rock Polish
- Earthquake
- Rain Dance
- Explosion
@ Damp Rock
Jolly
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Forretress is known to be a dreadfully slow Pokemon; in fact, it is best to completely reduce its Speed in IVs, EVs, and nature, to power up Gyro Ball. However, this set throws out that mentality entirely and uses max Speed EVs with a positive Speed nature!
Rock Polish makes taking on Magnezone much safer, because Magnezone won't outspeed it to the KO or use Magnet Rise before the Earthquake. Standard Forretress's strategy against Magnezone is Earthquaking on the switch, but a Flying-type or Levitator would get an safe switch in. At an abysmal Speed, Forretress should be hesistant to use support moves when Magnezone is on the prowl. Rock Polish turns the tables against that UFO MoFo.
Switch into a weak or resisted hit, which shouldn't be difficult given Forretress's many resistances. Then, Rock Polish on the switch, netting 392 Speed, enough to outspeed Forretress's best counters: Timid Scarf Magnezone and +1 Adamant Gyarados. Fortuitously, max Attack is just enough to OHKO 172 HP / 0 Def Magnezone (Steel Killer) with Stealth Rock. If the switch-in isn't going to get KOed by Earthquake, then immediately Rain Dance, which will halve Forretress's sole, albeit hefty, weakness. Most Fire-moves still have a great likelihood of a OHKO even in the Rain. Explode when you are done, which kill nearly everything not resistant and will create a clean opening for your Rain sweeper. You can use Spikes or Stealth Rock instead of Earthquake if OHKOing Magnezone isn't a concern (Dugtrio), but Thunderbolt will OHKO Forretress with Stealth Rock.
Be sure to be in good health, because if Forretress uses Rain Dance then max Attack Adamant Life Orb Gyarados uses Waterfall, it will do 70 - 82% damage. The best case scenario would be if Gyarados gets cocky and Dragon Dances instead of Waterfall, so +2 Forretress will still be faster to use Explosion.
-1 Explosion vs Bulky Gyarados: 82 - 96% (OHKO with SR)
-1 Explosion vs Offensive Gyarados: 100%
Actually, this thing is nothing new (at least it's popular in Germany since... the beginning of DP...), but I would not use Vaccum Wave and Aura Sphere, because otherwise, you're Gyara and Mence fodder... I run HP [Rock], which also helps against Zapdos, and a timid nature on my CMLuce. Also I like Leftovers on it, you won't be able to break stallteams with Spikes and LO-Damage. I seriously like this thing more than SpecsLuce, mainly because of it's special bulk, which allows it to set up on Tentacruel and Spiritomb, whereas SpecsLuce will have problems against those. Seriously, an awesome stallbreaker, I think not a single wall in OU can handle this ;)
I recently made this set as almost novelty, but it turned out to work quite well...
Absol (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Super Luck
EVs: 112 HP/144 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Thunder Wave
- Attract / Superpower
The two moves together have very limited use. Your Sucker Punch damage calcs are all on Pokémon that are likely to use support moves. Superpower will just lower your Attack again, wasting you turns. Once people figure out your game, they will just send out a subbing ghost or sturdy fighting resist (Celebi, or let's be realistic, Claydol/Slowbro/Nidoqueen) and set up on you.
Claydol is so meh though... And and (toxic0spikes isnt a problem for me usually since it goes hand in hand with Roserade and WishClefable. Basically it works but only if you know how to work it :)
Worth a spot on the analysis. Rain Dance + Explosion is worth a set anywhere and it only has 2 sets anyway. Get some others opinions but otherwise I would add this to the updates.
A variation could be used with double screen and light clay. Rock polish on the switch, set up a screen against whatever is attacking. If you can survive another hit, set up the other screen and then explode.
Hm...I'm not sure if Rain Dance + Explosion is actually worth mentioning. I mean, yeah it's helpful, but is it really worth immediately sacrificing one pokemon to have that rain advantage? (well, I guess that's a silly question. Rain is really beneficial).
It should be noted that you won't outrun every Gyarados. Jolly with 168 Speed EVs will still outrun after a DD, but still good stuff. You'll also outpace neutral Scarf Heatran, which is good. You won't be able to OHKO Bulkier Magnezone, so be wary of that. You can OHKO Heatran after SR, but without it the chance is probably about 40% (not good at calculating ohko percentage).
Not bad, not bad at all. Not gimmicky either (not on the surface anyways). May be worth submitting (but wait for more feedback).
It should be noted that you won't outrun every Gyarados. Jolly with 168 Speed EVs will still outrun after a DD, but still good stuff. You'll also outpace neutral Scarf Heatran, which is good. You won't be able to OHKO Bulkier Magnezone, so be wary of that. You can OHKO Heatran after SR, but without it the chance is probably about 40% (not good at calculating ohko percentage).
Not bad, not bad at all. Not gimmicky either (not on the surface anyways). May be worth submitting (but wait for more feedback).
Yea but you shouldn't have to build your team to support a spinner, when a spinner's job is to support the team.
If it works fine for you that's fine but as a generic spinner Claydol is alot more efficient, and has wider move pool to work with.
All in all if you already have Roserade and Wish Clefable to deal with Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and Stealth Rock for what reason do you need a spinner esepcially when Clefable is running wish support to heal other's on the switch in. Just seems redundant like running a Rain Dance lead with all fire pokemon on your team, or setting out toxic spikes when you know your opponent has drapion on their team.
Well, as much as I shouldn't, I'm going to post a set that I've tried to some degree. It still needs fine tuning (mainly with EVs and strategy), but it's not bad. Gimmicky as of right now, but after some adjustments it could be something special.
Vaporeon @ Leftovers
Careful || Water Absorb
252 HP/ 252 Sp Def / 4 Def
~Curse
~Wish/Rest
~Waterfall
~Frustration
One may question, "Curse Vaporeon?" I actually did get this response. Curse has interested me for awhile. Well after searching the users for awhile, I figured Curse Flareon would be decent if his movepool was better. Then it donned on me: Curse Vaporeon. Like Flareon, Vaporeon has a stellar Special Defense stat and a much better HP stat. The attack stat is pretty bad, but that is remedied by Curse for the most part. After comparing stats with the king of Curse, Snorlax, and looking at the moveset of Azumarill, I figured it would be viable.
But why use Vaporeon and not Snorlax? Snorlax has better Special Defense, HP, and Attack stats, the first two being really important for a curser. There are 2 things that set Vaporeon apart as a curser; arguably better typing and access to better healing (if chosen). Water is often held as the best single type in the game due to it's all around defensive capabilities, resisting common types such as steel, fire, and ice (Snorlax can technically resist the last 2 because of Thick Fat). Vaporeon is also completely immune to water attacks, gaining free healing if she comes in on one. As for personal healing, Vaporeon has access to Wish, meaning that if she preemptively using the move, she can stat up and gain healing the next turn. This prevents her from sleeping and letting the opponent set up. Rest can be used if Toxic is an issue (and trust me, it can be).
Water + Normal hits everything for at least neutral aside from Empoleon (which won't be doing anything back) and Shedinja. Vaporeon also gets the handy dandy STAB for Waterfall, but sadly lacks it on Frustration. Last Resort is an option, but most switchings to Vaporeon will resist Water.
Problems: It can't switch into physical threats without the initial investment of standard Vaporeon, so some EVs there might help tremendously. As mentioned, Toxic kills this set without Rest. Other than that, problems differentiating from Snorlax is the only obstacle.
Vaporeon only has 166 Attack without investment. I don't that'll be much of a threat. The HP EVs is very excessive. Vaporeon gets more bang for buck by puuting those EVs into Defense. Even without HP EVs, 0 SpA Starmie Thunderbolt is a 4HKO. At least 200 Attack would be great too.
In December, 16.6% of Gyarados are Jolly, but yes, Jolly Gyarados is a big problem if it Dragon Dances.
On that note, 9.8% of Heatran use max HP. Max HP Heatran takes 83 - 99% (74% chance to OHKO with SR).
172 HP is norm for Steel Killer Magnezone, but max HP Magnezone takes 88 - 100% (66% chance to OHKO with SR).
Qwilfish can Rain Dance + Explosion too, and also has Swift Swim to automatically double its Speed. The main advantages over Qwilfish are switching in more easily and having the element of surprise. Forretress is always a slowpoke and sets up entry hazards, so Rock Polish + Rain Dance will catch enemies totally off guard.
I'm drafting up a Forretress revamp now, so I'd really appreciate any feedback. Thanks for reading!
Here's a cool set that came to mind:
Forretress
name: NOT Electrode
- Rock Polish
- Earthquake
- Rain Dance
- Explosion
@ Damp Rock
Jolly
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Forretress is known to be a dreadfully slow Pokemon; in fact, it is best to completely reduce its Speed in IVs, EVs, and nature, to power up Gyro Ball. However, this set throws out that mentality entirely and uses max Speed EVs with a positive Speed nature!
Rock Polish makes taking on Magnezone much safer, because Magnezone won't outspeed it to the KO or use Magnet Rise before the Earthquake. Standard Forretress's strategy against Magnezone is Earthquaking on the switch, but a Flying-type or Levitator would get an safe switch in. At an abysmal Speed, Forretress should be hesistant to use support moves when Magnezone is on the prowl. Rock Polish turns the tables against that UFO MoFo.
Switch into a weak or resisted hit, which shouldn't be difficult given Forretress's many resistances. Then, Rock Polish on the switch, netting 392 Speed, enough to outspeed Forretress's best counters: Timid Scarf Magnezone and +1 Adamant Gyarados. Fortuitously, max Attack is just enough to OHKO 172 HP / 0 Def Magnezone (Steel Killer) with Stealth Rock. If the switch-in isn't going to get KOed by Earthquake, then immediately Rain Dance, which will halve Forretress's sole, albeit hefty, weakness. Most Fire-moves still have a great likelihood of a OHKO even in the Rain. Explode when you are done, which kill nearly everything not resistant and will create a clean opening for your Rain sweeper. You can use Spikes or Stealth Rock instead of Earthquake if OHKOing Magnezone isn't a concern (Dugtrio), but Thunderbolt will OHKO Forretress with Stealth Rock.
Be sure to be in good health, because if Forretress uses Rain Dance then max Attack Adamant Life Orb Gyarados uses Waterfall, it will do 70 - 82% damage. The best case scenario would be if Gyarados gets cocky and Dragon Dances instead of Waterfall, so +2 Forretress will still be faster to use Explosion.
-1 Explosion vs Bulky Gyarados: 82 - 96% (OHKO with SR)
-1 Explosion vs Offensive Gyarados: 100%
But wouldn't rain dance make the gyrados problem bigger, as you are boosting his STAB?Is this set meant to be used on rain team to get best effect? It's is pretty good. I'll check up if the 252 evs in speed is nessary, cuz if it doesn't it can go into hp or def.
EDIT*I don't see why anyone would use gyra to setup on a fortress, because fortress can explode on them, so is this meant to stop a gyra sweep by switching into it?
UU Anti-Lead
@ Focus Sash
Ability : Pure Power
Adamant Nature
EV: 252 Atk / 252 Speed / 6 Hp
-Zen Headbutt
-Bullet Punch
-High Jump Kick
-Thunder Punch
I've been using this quite alot now. And it is safe to say this thing is effective. The fact is, everyone expects the typical ScarfCham, but this thing makes leads in UU double think. Bullet Punch is a great move on fragile pokemon and prevents Destiny Bond Froslass. It's too bad you can't have Psycho Cut and Bullet Punch in the same moveset. Zen Headbutt is still great with the flinch, but both of its STAB moves are innacurate. Thunder Punch is my filler to handle Staraptor leads.
Ability : Pure Power
Adamant Nature
EV: 252 Atk / 252 Speed / 6 Hp
-Zen Headbutt
-Bullet Punch
-High Jump Kick
-Thunder Punch
I've been using this quite alot now. And it is safe to say this thing is effective. The fact is, everyone expects the typical ScarfCham, but this thing makes leads in UU double think. Bullet Punch is a great move on fragile pokemon and prevents Destiny Bond Froslass. It's too bad you can't have Psycho Cut and Bullet Punch in the same moveset. Zen Headbutt is still great with the flinch, but both of its STAB moves are innacurate. Thunder Punch is my filler to handle Staraptor leads.
Hm. Not sure why no one has ever mentioned this (or maybe they have and I didn't see it):
[set]
Name: I want to be Gallade
Move 1: Bulk Up
Move 2: Drain Punch
Move 3: Mach Punch / Bullet Punch
Move 4: Fire Punch / Ice Punch
Nature: Careful
Ability: Iron Fist
Item: Leftovers
EVs: 248 Sp.D / 198 Hp / 64 Atk
[Set Comments]
<p>First off, I would like to mention that this was originally meant and used for the older UU tier (before the BL merge). This set is obviously out-classed by Gallade (who is simply better at it), but this worked best before Gallade took the spot light. </p>
<p>Hitmonchan is easily overlooked as a frail, fast, and offensively focused pokemon. But what people don't see is his massive Sp. Defense. 248 Sp. Defense EVs puts Hitmonchan at a rediculous 349. 198 Hp EVs coupled with 248 Sp. Defense EVs make him an excellent choice to bring into special sweepers like Menectric, Claydol (who cannot do anything to Hitmonchan unless they use Trick or decide to Explode), Choice Specs Altaria, Choice Specs Froslass, and so on. </p>
Here's some damage calcs for all you wondering:
(all based on attacking a Careful Hitmonchan with 291 Hp / 349 Sp. Defense)
Altaria: Modest 252 Sp. Attack Choice Specs Draco Meteor -
Damage: 173 - 203
Damage: 59.45% - 69.76% (3HKO factoring in Leftovers)
Froslass: Timid 252 Sp. Attack Choice Specs Ice Beam -
Damage: 117 - 138
Damage: 40.21% - 47.42% (3HKO)
Claydol: Bold 114 Sp. Attack (standard Utility set) Psychic -
Damage: 118 - 139
Damage: 40.55% - 47.77% (3HKO)
Manectric: Timid 252 Sp. Attack Thunderbolt -
Damage: 93 - 109
Damage: 31.96% - 37.46% (Possible 4HKO factoring in Leftovers)
Lapras: Modest 252 Sp. Attack Choice Specs Hydro Pump -
Damage: 111 - 131
Damage: 38.14% - 45.02% (3HKO)
<p>But Hitmonchan can not only be a suprising special wall, but it can set up as your opponent is learning how to take it down. Bulk Up to increase your mediocre defense and increase your attacking power, and then fire away with your choice of Priority (Mach Punch packs (78*) base power when factoring STAB and Iron Fist, while Bullet Punch only has (48*), but lets you hit Froslass and Rotom). </p>
* Need Confirmation
<p>But what really differenciates Hitmonchan from the other pokemon that think they can do this set better is Drain Punch. STAB + Iron Fist pushes Drain Punche's Base power through the roof (117*) and also lets you regain your HP so it can keep taking attacks. </p>
*Needs Confirmation
<p>Fire Punch and Ice Punch or the only real options for the last slot. In the old UU, Fire + Fighting type combination hit everything neutral in UU except Mantine and Grumpig. Ice Punch simply hits more things for super effective damage, but I'd run Fire Punch anyway (so you can hit Froslass for super effective damage instead of the opposite, which is a common switch in to Hitmonchan). </p>
So I hope this set makes sense. You come in, wall a ton of different pokemon thinking they can hit you while you Bulk Up, then Drain Punch on the switch or Drain Punch to regain HP. Finally, Bullet Punch or Mach Punch to pick off the rest of what's left of the opponent. Very simple strategy, and it has worked many times than not.
Comments and suggestions are welcome to help improve this set. I know my writing and analysis is terrible, but I would really like to see this set in the Analysis page since it lacks a Careful Hitmonchan analaysis.
[set]
Name: I want to be Gallade
Move 1: Bulk Up
Move 2: Drain Punch
Move 3: Mach Punch / Bullet Punch
Move 4: Fire Punch / Ice Punch
Nature: Careful
Ability: Iron Fist
Item: Leftovers
EVs: 248 Sp.D / 198 Hp / 64 Atk
[Set Comments]
<p>First off, I would like to mention that this was originally meant and used for the older UU tier (before the BL merge). This set is obviously out-classed by Gallade (who is simply better at it), but this worked best before Gallade took the spot light. </p>
<p>Hitmonchan is easily overlooked as a frail, fast, and offensively focused pokemon. But what people don't see is his massive Sp. Defense. 248 Sp. Defense EVs puts Hitmonchan at a rediculous 349. 198 Hp EVs coupled with 248 Sp. Defense EVs make him an excellent choice to bring into special sweepers like Menectric, Claydol (who cannot do anything to Hitmonchan unless they use Trick or decide to Explode), Choice Specs Altaria, Choice Specs Froslass, and so on. </p>
Here's some damage calcs for all you wondering:
(all based on attacking a Careful Hitmonchan with 291 Hp / 349 Sp. Defense)
Altaria: Modest 252 Sp. Attack Choice Specs Draco Meteor -
Damage: 173 - 203
Damage: 59.45% - 69.76% (3HKO factoring in Leftovers)
Froslass: Timid 252 Sp. Attack Choice Specs Ice Beam -
Damage: 117 - 138
Damage: 40.21% - 47.42% (3HKO)
Claydol: Bold 114 Sp. Attack (standard Utility set) Psychic -
Damage: 118 - 139
Damage: 40.55% - 47.77% (3HKO)
Manectric: Timid 252 Sp. Attack Thunderbolt -
Damage: 93 - 109
Damage: 31.96% - 37.46% (Possible 4HKO factoring in Leftovers)
Lapras: Modest 252 Sp. Attack Choice Specs Hydro Pump -
Damage: 111 - 131
Damage: 38.14% - 45.02% (3HKO)
<p>But Hitmonchan can not only be a suprising special wall, but it can set up as your opponent is learning how to take it down. Bulk Up to increase your mediocre defense and increase your attacking power, and then fire away with your choice of Priority (Mach Punch packs (78*) base power when factoring STAB and Iron Fist, while Bullet Punch only has (48*), but lets you hit Froslass and Rotom). </p>
* Need Confirmation
<p>But what really differenciates Hitmonchan from the other pokemon that think they can do this set better is Drain Punch. STAB + Iron Fist pushes Drain Punche's Base power through the roof (117*) and also lets you regain your HP so it can keep taking attacks. </p>
*Needs Confirmation
<p>Fire Punch and Ice Punch or the only real options for the last slot. In the old UU, Fire + Fighting type combination hit everything neutral in UU except Mantine and Grumpig. Ice Punch simply hits more things for super effective damage, but I'd run Fire Punch anyway (so you can hit Froslass for super effective damage instead of the opposite, which is a common switch in to Hitmonchan). </p>
So I hope this set makes sense. You come in, wall a ton of different pokemon thinking they can hit you while you Bulk Up, then Drain Punch on the switch or Drain Punch to regain HP. Finally, Bullet Punch or Mach Punch to pick off the rest of what's left of the opponent. Very simple strategy, and it has worked many times than not.
Comments and suggestions are welcome to help improve this set. I know my writing and analysis is terrible, but I would really like to see this set in the Analysis page since it lacks a Careful Hitmonchan analaysis.
- Status