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Palaeontology! Mark 2

Morm

I'm back, bitches.

Link to original thread: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42980
If you haven't read it, go and do it. I've been told it's a good read.

I've been gone for a while; I've been learning, living, loving, laughing and most importantly avoiding this forum thanks to my own vindictive nature. I cannot resist you cool people anymore.

Well, lots to report. Actually, not really. I would have posted this earlier, but apparently I'm of the boring. 2009 has brought me a big bowl of heartache. Aside from a full frontal education on First nations religion/belief systems from a really cool elder of a local tribe and some super commonplace fossil finds, I have an embarassing tale to tell.

I was walking down the slope of the famous Red Deer River valley...it was snowy. We are hardcore, we even work in the snow now, apparently. This was construction monitoring, so naturally there was silt everywhere since this area of the world is super windy. Well, what looked like normal silt covered ground turned out to be solid ice...I slipped, falling right on my ass.

I'll be the first to say that having a fall onto my ass hard enough to have my hardhat pop right off was embarassing, but the aftermath has been hideous. This happened on January 12, but I'm now on workers compensation- for a hurt back. It's an annoying and ambiguous injury that has me unable to sit and drink with friends for more than an hour or so at once without discomfort, so I must lay down! Luckily, the siren that holds my heart, the girl that contradicts all logic for me when picking a girl, is still around and towing more than her weight as far as dealing with this.

Before you freak out, I should be back by the end of March or so; this is a Sacral-Iliac joint injury with some inflammation and muscle problems in the lumbars and lower thoracic vertebrae. AKA minor back injury.


So, since I promised I would make another thread to a few people, here it is. I'll kick it off with some shitwrecking finds from the paleo world that will...well...wreck your shit.


http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/01/090128-triceratops-horns-fighting.html

Triceratops used it's horns for fighting each other...weirdly, Centrosaurus apparently didn't (and that is strange!). So stop your stupid drawings of certapsians using their horns as stabbing devices against T. rex, as if that isn't assinine to begin with.



http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/02/090205-great-appendage-picture.html
Apparently this is from the Devonian of Germany. Wow, doesn't it look ALOT like Anomalocaris from the Cambrian? I for one had no idea these guys hung on so long, perhaps I'm losing my touch.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/02/090204-oldest-animals.html
Sponge marker chemicals were found more than 635 MYA. Steroids from these guys were found in the sediments, but the debate is on if they are true Demospongia or an ancestor. This is a huge deal, but only because of the INSANE age...

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/02/090203-pregnant-whale-fossil.html
Yet ANOTHER new whale: this one more significant, if possible, than Georgiacetus (who allegedly had a fluke AND four legs). This 'whale' apparently had a fetus that was in position to be born head first- typical for land birthing, but the animal was clearly at least semi aquatic. Sadly, each missing link we find creates two more in the eyes of opposers to evolution. Assholes.



Okay, phew, that's what's been going on in my bitter absence. I really hope you all support this thread as much as you did the last one, I'll continue to bring the awesome if you continue to support it.



Edit: Please feel free to ask me questions about the link or topic, even if they seem at random for the ongoing topic. I really do encourage discussion and really appreciate your opinions and questions.
 
Huzzah! I don't know if I ever told you how much I enjoyed your last thread.

I can't help but wonder a little bit at the whale story, so I would enjoy a little bit of clarification. Is it not possible that the fossil was a bit of a fluke, and the fetus happened to get turned around in the womb? The conclusion of that article was that this "whale" gave birth on land. I was also left untold how that conclusion was reached. Was it reached because of the direction of the fetus in the womb? Was it reached because of the geographic location of the fossil? The latter would seem to tie everything together--we know this whale was on land and we know the fetus was positioned head first--but they don't come out and tell me this! Perhaps I am supposed to already know the geography of the Pakistani desert at the time in question.
 
It was definitely inferred from the position of the foetus. Ed Yong made a post about it on Scienceblogs.com, alongside many other bloggers on that site. Czech them out: Proto whale!

Love your threads Mormoopid!
 
tea_and_blues said:
It was definitely inferred from the position of the foetus. Ed Yong made a post about it on Scienceblogs.com, alongside many other bloggers on that site. Czech them out: Proto whale!
Click to expand...

Actually, my rather astute girlfriend asked me about just this issue today. I said, in reply, this:

What is more likely? That you had what is essentially the equivalent of a marine breach birth preserved in the fossil record or that your typical animal was preserved? Building on this, what makes more sense of an animal that clearly has features allowing it stints on land? Birthing at sea is much more treacherous for the baby and yields a much higher death rate. So, if an animal can give birth at land, why wouldn't they? Think: Penguins, Seals, Crocodiles, sea turtles (who live exclusively at sea)...most anything that is capable of birthing on dry land will, because it has a higher success rate.

Whales likely didn't start birthing at sea until it was impractical for them to birth on land.
 
Haha, I was scared that you'd disappeared for good due to all the stuff that's been going on, but thankfully you're back.

I am constantly amazed by how cool a lot of these prehistoric creatures look. I don't know if it's just me but it seems that most of the animals living today (save for the freaky stuff you can only find deep deep underwater, in caves, or in an impenetrable rain forest) have mellowed out.

Aside from that, I fractured (broke maybe, never got it checked) my tailbone a couple of years ago while bouldering over wet sand at a beach in California and that was my least favorite injury. Not being able to sit really screws you over for most anything.

Glad to have you back ;).
 
BAM_UR_DEAD said:
Glad to have you back ;).
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And the jokes about my crippling injury start already
thanks alot!

The animals today haven't mellowed out at all. The only reason they look normal is cause you grew up looking at them and they are just so typical to you. Lets see some of the messed up shit that should make you trip balls:

-Elephants
-Giraffes
-Rhinoceros
-Platypus
-Echidna
-Marine Iguana
-Whale Shark
-Human beings (we are so damn unique it's scary)
 
I thought we weren't all that unique. Aren't we in the 95% and up range of genetic compatibility to the other great apes?

Glad to have you back. Your first thread helped kind of revive part of my I thought I'd lost when I entered fourth grade, so I'm expecting good things out of this one. =D
 
WER said:
I thought we weren't all that unique. Aren't we in the 95% and up range of genetic compatibility to the other great apes?
Click to expand...

We also share something like 30% of our genetics with Bannanas. I'm talking a strict in a strict morphological sense with this, and morphologically speaking humanity is totally unique. Hell, just the way we walk hasn't been done before.
 
This was an interesting read so far. How did you manage to land a job like this fresh out of university? In the other thread you said: "My training in arky is basically like the last few weeks. Seriously I took 2 classes in university but slept through them. I'd have no idea about that tool stuff anyways." That was back in June. From what I can gather, you weren't an arch/paleo major at all?

I toyed with the idea of taking archaeology next year, if not for any other reason, but because it's interesting. I applied for the arts program, not the science one since I didn't have the required Grade 12 Calculus credit. It wasn't my first program choice though since the only job thing that could really come out of it, or so I thought, was getting my Masters and teaching. Your job is sick though.

I'm pretty sure you do what every child has wanted to be at some point.
 
Surgo said:
I am so glad to have this thread again! Welcome back!
Click to expand...

Thanks, glad to be back to report on some stories. Right now all I'm doing is fighting with Workers Comp about the money I am entitled to for being hurt and playing left 4 dead over and over again. I suppose I could talk about the surgery my cat is about to have this friday, pretty interesting biology involved in that. Anyone wanna hear about the biology of feline dentistry?

Duckster:

Calculus was a bitch, I had to take it twice. The first midterm I ever took in that class I got a 16%. Silly me, I assumed I knew it after a strict regime of sleeping in class and not giving a shit about it. Turns out, math is a subject where you learn by PRACTISE! How embarassing.

The way I got this job was because of the following:

1. I went to a school my boss liked and went to herself
2. I didn't take a palaeo degree, because botany is the retarded older sibling of biology that nobody invites to a party until the mother makes them but still nobody talks to them
3. Because of the lack of botany, I was able to take entomology which helped alot
4. Right time, right place
5. I have worked at 2 world heritage sites and have some amazing contacts, partialy from befriend profs.

Yeah, I lucked out a bit, but I did outcompete most people in my graduating class of like 12 people somehow while having the lowest marks out of all of them. Also beat my current roommate for the job, but that might be because he asked for more money than they wanted to give.

Archaeology is actually quite lucrative, there is all kinds of consulting jobs in that field, especially up where I live in Western Canada. You won't be digging up mummys, but your daily commute may well involve a helicopter so it kind of evens out.
 
Very interesting. Really makes me wanna start up my NatGeo subscription again. Besides, I could use more bathroom material. =P
 
Happy Darwin Day, people. This calls for some multiphyletic jambalaya:

We'll need some squid, shrimp, fish, frog, iguana...maybe a squirrel for good measure, even though chordates were already included. Good eating!
 
ooh ooh pick me mormoo!

so about archaeopteryxes, were those actually real or were there anything similar to them or anything?

i like flying dinosaurs. x)
 
Caudipteryx looks like a turkey! that is so fucking weird. haha.

that's pretty bad ass though. links between families i always found interesting. like the fish-amphibian transition. frogs with fins hanging off of them and stuff. x)
 
batrachans like frogs actually are quite advanced indeed. They really won't be the ones to have fins coming off them; you should look into things like axolotls. Amphibians present what I consider to be a polyphyletic group; I'd say caecillians are probably microsaurs, but I really haven't got much info on that. Microsaurs, of course, are a much earlier radiation than true Lissamphibia (modern amphibians). Also see Tiktaalik.

Modern amphibians don't look much like their prehistoric friends, save for a few like Cryptobranchus. If you think the hellbender (in pic) is badass, check out the giant Japanese Salamander. These are the closest analog we have to Labyrinthodonts, which were giant predatory salamanders that were basically like crocodiles with stumpy heads.
 
i am doing a report on fossils / paleontology for bio h, so i give this topic a thumbs up. from the research ive been doing lately ive found several fossils i find very interesting, starting with the giant sea scorpion.


071120_ancientseascorpion_vmed_6p.widec.jpg

(http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21906979/)

The article dates back about a year, but since i am just now doing the report, im just learning about it now. This was an 8 foot scorpion. I was thinking what would the earth be like today if these still exsisted. They were wiped out apparently because of the evolution of larger jawed fish, which gave them natural predators, something they went millions of years without (although they were cannibalistic, meaning they were there own natural predators). I just thought this was pretty cool, and i have just started on this eventually to be 5 page / 40 slide presentation, which right now is about a page and a half and 18 slides.
 
The largest scorpion is actually Brontoscorpius (=Thunder scorpion).

Eurypterids are Chelicerates, but aren't scorpions by any actual measure. There is a law of the sea, other than the ones pirates go by, saying that "more often than not, there is a bigger fish". By 390 million years, there actually were sharks and even Placoderms, though I'm pretty sure the larger Dunkleosteus didn't appear til later. Even so, many of the placoderms were running rampage back then, making life for even large Eurypterids a pain in the ass.

A great many things were and are cannibalistic, including Chimpanzees who go on raids for meat on other clans.

What is your paper on, specifically? You may want to mention that these aren't part of the crown group Chelicerata, and that Chelicerates got their start sometime before 543 MYA, around the time of the Burgess Shale (As per Sancticaris)...I can help you more if you want, maybe give you some references too.
 
My girlfriend is studying to be an archaeologist, and she wants to work in Egypt! Do you know anyone who does archaeology in Egypt? What do they say it's like there? In my mind, it's still a third-world country.
 
Surgo said:
My girlfriend is studying to be an archaeologist, and she wants to work in Egypt! Do you know anyone who does archaeology in Egypt? What do they say it's like there? In my mind, it's still a third-world country.
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I'd say: Good luck to her. I'm sorry to tell you, but if she wants mummy's Peru is the best place right now. As far as I know, thanks to Englands Mummy pillaging in centuries past, they have basically locked down egyptological digsites to people who have huge cred in it already or those that happen to be from egypt.

To make matters worse, doing stuff in egypt is like the holy grail for archaeologists; to use an analogy, it's like how all marine biologists think they will study Orca's, but almost all end up with sponges or algae.

That's not to say it's not possible, she just has to play her cards VERY, VERY well. She will likely end up doing consulting, which is fucking awesome- imagine 1000X the budget with 1000X less reporting. Your daily commute becomes something like a helicopter ride or a quad trip through the mud, meanwhile she gets paid anywhere from $20-100 per hour. Meanwhile, if you just have an undergrad of paleo or arky in academia, you'll probably max out around $13 per hour.

Sadly, I don't know anyone who rolls that hardcore in egypt- I had one teacher who says he did once, but he has a mullet and is a little off his rocker, so I'd question that.

My friend that went to Egypt said it's rough for women- men try to buy you and you literally are an object. It's not unheardof to trade your daughter into marriage for a few sturdy camels. At least it's not like Mongolia though, where word has it you have to gunfight even to this day to keep your water in the Nemegt Desert.

Is she going into post graduate studies at all?

Edit: And may I say, I'm thrilled to have the person who is possibly my favorite poster on smogon interested in this thread. Getting people involved and interested is always the best part of my job! To all you other people who are really cool posters and have gotten involved in the past, feel free to drop in and ask any question, no matter how silly you think it might be.
 
I'm pretty sure she'll be going to graduate school for a master's degree.

Fortunately she has a couple more years yet to realize that Egypt sucks and Peru (or should I say Western Canada!) is where it's at. I am of course totally worried about her safety every time she mentions Egypt. That might be the irrational and somewhat racist fear of a stupid westerner but, hey, I can't quite help it.

Sadly, I don't know anyone who rolls that hardcore in egypt- I had one teacher who says he did once, but he has a mullet and is a little off his rocker, so I'd question that.
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She's met an interesting character or two when it comes to archaeology professors, I'll have to get her to tell me about it more in-depth some time so I can post about it heh.

If by some chance you're referring to me with that edit, thanks for the compliment! If not, well, that's okay, but you might want to bring a parachute the next time you fly to work. :happybrain:
 
Oh, don't you worry, I was directly referring to you with the part about the favorite poster, but to alot of other people about posting more in my thread!

Masters degree would bump you up to minimum 60 000/year, depending on what you do with it, in consultation.

Peru is stellar for mummies, Alberta is stellar for...little rock chips and tools. Yeah, North America is NOT where you want to study actual human remains. After the cops confirm it's old, you'll basically have to repatriate it to the first nations, unless you can confirm it is European (and therefore, not that old and you'll be spending alot of time on IDing it so you can 'alert the family' lol).

Other great places would include ancient Antioch or any holy war city or anywhere in Europe, where they have both common sense and civility. In peru, mummies are so damn common that you could build a series of luxurious and creepy apartment complexes with them.

Sadly, a parachute will do nothing for you in a helicopter crash. You have about a 1% chance of living through that, Helicopter crashes are hideous and we have to fly below the clouds, cause there is airplane traffic, so you wouldn't have the time nor would it be of use cause you're so close to the ground. By the time it deploys, you're already dead! Plus the fuel container is like...RIGHT there, and the moving parts and yeah. Plus, in most choppers, you wouldn't even be able to wear a parachute because it's too cramped.
 
Aliens living among us

Finally someone with some authority in the field of astrobiology (sounds weird to say that) thinks that life could have formed multiple times in Earth like conditions- and what's more Earth like than Earth itself? The prospect of alien life coming from a different planet is tantilizing, but there are some extremely odd forms living right on our own planet that may be a seperate form of life from us. It certainly won't be little green men, but it will have the advantage of being convenient and not riddled with some of the stupidity that astrobiology can bring.

Neat!
 
oh...my...god.


http://edition.cnn.com/2009/TECH/science/02/19/california.fossil.discovery/index.html

He had a rough life during the Ice Age, walking around with a couple of broken ribs and a possibly cancerous lesion on his jaw before dying at a young age.
Click to expand...

This is Zed, the Mammoth. He's appreciably larger than any other Mammoth from that area and has some very cool paleopathology. The LA county museum was making a parking garage and BAM, this popped out. Also, probably the most complete and significant pleistocene fauna EVER. It includes insects, turtles, wolves, mammoths, glyptodons (elephant wannabes) and etc.

If this isn't a definitive demonstration of the potential for the LA area asphault deposits, including La Brea, then I have no idea what is. This is pretty damn impressive.


As for me, I'm still injured. About to get back in the office on modified duties this week, but fieldwork is still a no-go for me. The insanely aggressive and insane physio regime I'm on seems to have reinjured me and turned me into an insomniac all in one swift stroke. So, no personal stories of glory for a bit, but I'll keep posting awesome stories I come across online!



Also, another step closer to an intermediate between sauropods and theropods:
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0004397

Of course, as I have painstakingly learned, when people ask for intermediates to demonstrate evolution, they move the goal posts back further and further. Assholes.
 
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