DPP Ludicolo

[twash]

I've used this set hugely this week, it's had fantastic results. Before you say "gimmick" or whatever, I've shown this to other people and they too have had excellent results, such as Mind and Ace Matador (and to a lesser extent, Havak).

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/ludicolo/

[SET]
name: Uber Support
move 1: Leech Seed
move 2: Protect
move 3: Grass Knot
move 4: Ice Beam / Toxic
item: Leftovers
nature: Calm
ability: Rain Dish
evs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Ludicolo may seem like a mediocre Pokémon for use in Ubers at first glance, but surprisingly it has its own niche in the metagame, courtesy of Leech Seed, Protect, and Rain Dish.</p>

<p>Due to the Uber metagame generally being specially based, Ludicolo can come in on many Pokémon with its very acceptable Special Defense stat. Ludicolo will take a maximum of 38% damage from a Choice Scarf Kyogre's Thunder, which is quickly made less worrying by the accumulation of Rain Dish and Leftovers, together granting Ludicolo 12.5% health back per turn in the rain. Ludicolo can then Leech Seed for at least another 11% health return, meaning Ludicolo can outstall Kyogre with Protect.</p>

<p>Leech Seed is made all the more useful in Ubers due to many Pokémon in the tier having gargantuan HP, meaning Ludicolo will often find itself healing 25% of its health per turn with Protect. Protect also helps against Choice users, allowing Ludicolo to scout the incoming attack.</p>

<p>Grass Knot will 2HKO Groudon and offensive Kyogre, while also being a very reliable attack versus Palkia, Darkrai, and Mewtwo. Ice Beam hits Rayquaza who may feel like Dragon Dancing or using Swords Dance expecting a switch, and will be promptly OHKOed after Stealth Rock damage, provided it doesn't invest heavily in HP. Ice Beam also helps against Garchomp, and to an extent, Dialga.</p>

<p>However, Toxic is a secondary option for the fourth slot. This often allows Ludicolo to specifically beat Lugia, provided it does not carry Toxic itself. However, this means that many Uber Pokémon will cause more immediate problems for the set, such as Giratina, or Latias carrying Refresh or Safeguard. Dialga will have a much easier time as it is not affected by Toxic, and Grass Knot will not do huge amounts of damage. Finally, it becomes much easier for Rayquaza and Garchomp to wreak havoc for a few turns before Toxic damage would finish them off.</p>

<p>Maximum HP provides overall defensive ability, while 216 Special Defense EVs provide a bonus point. The rest of the EVs go into Defense, allowing Ludicolo to take hits like Darkrai's non-boosted Focus Punch much easier.</p>

 

[Havak]

<p>Ludicolo may seem like a mediocre Pokémon at first glance, but surprisingly it has its own niche in the Uber metagame, courtesy of Leech Seed, Protect, and Rain Dish.</p>

I think that's a better opening sentence.

 

[twash]

Updated.

 

[gec]

This often allows Ludicolo to specifically beat Lugia, provided it does not carry Toxic itself. However, this means that many Uber Pokémon will cause more immediate problems for the set,

 

[Colloquy]

Sorry I couldn't help earlier, I was busy at a game.

---

<p>Ludicolo may seem like a mediocre Pokémon for use in Ubers at first glance, but surprisingly it has its own niche in the (remove 'Ubers') metagame, courtesy of Leech Seed, Protect, and Rain Dish.</p>

It made it seem like Ludicolo is a mediocre Pokemon everywhere, so add in the "in Ubers".

<p>Due to the Uber metagame generally being specially based, Ludicolo can come in on many Pokémon with its very acceptable Special Defense stat. Ludicolo will take a maximum of 38% damage from a Choice Scarf Kyogre's Thunder, which is quickly made less worrying by the accumulation of Rain Dish and Leftovers, together granting Ludicolo 12.5% health back each turn. Ludicolo can then Leech Seed for at least another 11% health return, meaning Ludicolo can outstall Kyogre with Protect, provided Thunder does not consistently hit through.</p>

<p>Grass Knot will 2HKO Groudon and offensive Kyogre, while also being a very reliable attack versus Palkia, Darkrai, and Mewtwo. Ice Beam hits (remove 'namely') Rayquaza who may feel like Dragon Dancing or using Swords Dance expecting a switch, and will be promptly OHKOed after Stealth Rock damage, provided it doesn't invest heavily in HP. Ice Beam also helps against Garchomp, and to an extent, Dialga.</p>

I guess this is British wording. It seemed odd to me.

<p>However, Toxic is a secondary option for the fourth slot. This often allows Ludicolo to specifically beat Lugia, provided it does not carry Toxic itself. However, this means that many Uber Pokémon will cause more immediate problems for the set, such as Giratina, or Latias carrying Refresh or Safeguard. Dialga doesn't take any damage at all from it, and Pokemon like Rayquaza and Garchomp can take out a few Pokemon before Toxic can bring them down.</p>

It's better to trim it down, as I normally avoid having the downsides of something in an edit, certainly as like two big sentences. darkie said he doesn't like Lati@s in an analysis, and it's pretty much obvious that Latias is what you should be worried about here.

 

[Stellar]

If possible, I would suggest shortening some of the comments and possibly adding in bits about OU / UU use. It seems essentially identical to the "stall" set that is currently in the analysis and would be a good idea if it simply replaced that set.

 

[Overcast2020]

I once placed a set similar to this. It was a real annoyance.

I don't think that this should replace the current stall set as there are some differences and they are used for very different roles.

I also suggest adding scismic toss as an option in set comments as it allows Ludicolo to hit some ubers that it wouldn't be able to. I'm not sure if this is the right set for it but constant reliable damage is alwas useful on a stall pokemon.

Other than that I really like this set.

 

[twash]

If possible, I would suggest shortening some of the comments and possibly adding in bits about OU / UU use. It seems essentially identical to the "stall" set that is currently in the analysis and would be a good idea if it simply replaced that set.

No, it's designed for use in Ubers not OU / UU when there might not be perm. weather. It simply doesn't work half as well in OU / UU.

It's not really like the stall set. It plays differently, mainly uses different attacks, uses a different ability and different EVs. If you wanted a stall set in OU / UU you use that one, designed for that purpose. This one is solely for Ubers.

I'll add in the changes later, I have to rush off to school :(.

 

[Pokemon93]

Thunder will always hit due to the rain

 

[Jimbo]

During rain, can hit through Detect and Protect 30% of the time.

Err...

Anyway Twash, I don't know if I like starting a paragraph with "However," I think it could either be reworded or dropped compeletely. Nice edit though, I love Ludicolo :)

 

[CardsOfTheHeart]

<p>Due to the Uber metagame generally being specially based, Ludicolo can come in on many Pokémon with its very acceptable Special Defense stat. Ludicolo will take a maximum of 38% damage from a Choice Scarf Kyogre's Thunder, which is quickly made less worrying by the accumulation of Rain Dish and Leftovers, together granting Ludicolo 12.5% health back. Ludicolo can then Leech Seed for at least another 11% health return, meaning Ludicolo can outstall Kyogre with Protect, provided Thunder does not consistently hit through.</p>

Wait, didn't Platinum change this? Let me look through the latest Research thread...

Ah, here we go.

Can anyone try testing to see if No Guard Dynamic Punch/Thunder in Rain/Blizzard in Hail still hit through protect in Platinum, and if they still hit through with the same accuracy as they did in D/P?

I had Giratina-O fire 16 Thunders at my own Pokemon when they used Protect in the Rain in an in game double battle. Tested against Kyogre, another Giratina, and Darkrai using Protect, to confirm if resistances play a role.

None out of the 16 Thunders hit, so we can assume Protect blocks Thunder in the Rain now.

I don't think Shoddy has this accounted for yet, but at least keep that in mind.

 

[twash]

Edits done, on SCMS; this can be moved to the Peer Edit Archive now, thank you.