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np: UU - Six Deadly Suspects

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Missy

Mismagius has caused me more problems than anything else, chiefly because it can come in for free on so many things and just throw up a sub. There are a lot of things that can break through it on the physical side, but not many of those things like to take +1 Shadow Balls or Hidden Powers. And not many of them are faster. I've found that Altaria can come in on the Sub and DD, then take it down with Outrage or scare it off. The problem, obviously, is that if you scare it off, hey, you're stuck into Outrage.

Shaymin and Slowbro are definitely the two biggest defensive threats right now, IMO. Slowbro (like a lot of things) is ruined by Torterra unless it has Ice Beam, which most haven't in my experience. Shaymin is hard to take down without something like Moltres or Articuno.

Oh, and Subroost Moltres is brutal. Get in before SR or keep it off the field and there are very few things that can take it on.
 
HeYsUp said:
A more effective Set would be Substitute/Focus Punch/Ice Punch/Waterfall imo, because Focus Punch hits so much harder.
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I've always preferred a combination: Substitute/Focus Punch/Return/Waterfall. Still, even with Return, Slowbro is going to wall you all day. Great coverage though in that set; I believe nothing besides Sheddy resists.
 
Rain Dance is dominant. Holy crap why is rain dance so dominant? Is it just Abomasnow that held them back? Any good team just flat out needs a rain dance team counter, and I can't really think of a good one, besides maybe Ludicolo, but you might as well be running a rain dance team. Rain dance is just so easy to set up, and then you have three or so sweepers in reserve, so you can pretty much cover anything.

That's just my two cents.
 
I believe thund is using a Mismagius with taunt to shutdown clefable, also tricking any choice item to clefable takes the spring out of his step and gives you a toxic orb to fling onto another teammate, provided you are confident enough that you won't just trick the thing back to clefable.

I've actually been using a poliwrath instead of azumarill since his focus punch hits just as hard after accounting for stab, he is significantly faster (239 speed @ adamant, managed to outspeed gggerbil's arcanine but I'm not sure if that's typical), and he can fire hypnosis from behind sub at slowbro & venusaur instead of just tickling them with return. Stealth rock resist and residual healing from water absorb are another plus. Water absorb also makes it easy to play mind games with rain dance teams which is always helpful.
 
Khyl said:
Rain Dance is dominant. Holy crap why is rain dance so dominant? Is it just Abomasnow that held them back? Any good team just flat out needs a rain dance team counter, and I can't really think of a good one, besides maybe Ludicolo, but you might as well be running a rain dance team. Rain dance is just so easy to set up, and then you have three or so sweepers in reserve, so you can pretty much cover anything.

That's just my two cents.
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Porygon 2 is a good counter for a lot of things, weather included. It takes a lot of the hits VERY well, and has T-Bolt to hit most Swift Swimmers super effective, and t-Wave to cripple 'colo. It also is a very good wall, even if your oppponet doesn't have weather.
 
Sheepman said:
I've actually been using a poliwrath instead of azumarill since his focus punch hits just as hard after accounting for stab, he is significantly faster (239 speed @ adamant, managed to outspeed gggerbil's arcanine but I'm not sure if that's typical
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It's not, but then again neither is your Poliwrath spread (that's not to say it's an inferior spread by any means, because it isn't necessarily. You won't hear me using 'gimmick' in a derogatory sense). My spread is more defensively geared, so Speed EVs were naturally the first thing to go. That said, against Poliwrath the most practical attacking choice, if staying in at all, is Extremespeed (no recoil), so the speed is only a factor when using Toxic.

nizik said:
Porygon 2 is a good counter for a lot of things, weather included. It takes a lot of the hits VERY well, and has T-Bolt to hit most Swift Swimmers super effective, and t-Wave to cripple 'colo. It also is a very good wall, even if your oppponet doesn't have weather.
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Speaking of Tracers, Gardevoir would work very well as a Rain counter if it weren't for a Shoddy bug that prevents Trace working properly with Swift Swim. Fortunately such a critical situation has not come up in a long while, but it still annoys me that I can't yet rely on that as a fallback option.
 
Katherine said:
Espeon usage has spiked incredibly in this metagame. With its good 110 base Speed, 130 base Special Attack, and decent bulk, it works well as a special attacker. The Choice Specs set, though, is seeing the most use, with a set like this:

Espeon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Sychronize
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
- Trick
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power Fighting

It gets great coverage with Ghost-Fighting, and has an extremely powerful STAB Psychic. If you anticipate a Registeel switch-in, just Trick away your Choice Specs and it's screwed.
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You'll want at least 220 speed EVs to always outrun base 105s, Mismagius being the key example here. However I'd aim for at least 232 EVs to outrun Quick Feet Ursaring, or just max out speed completely on the off-chance you encounter another Espeon doing the same thing. What do the HP EVs help with anyway?
 
I am very new to the UU metagame, but I have to say Slowbro and Shaymin are some annoying things.
I have also used things like Regirock and Smeargle with great success.
 
Baton pass teams have been getting more popular. Uxie passes screens, gligar does his thing, seen smeargle leads where as I saw none before, most recipients are bibarel though I've yet to be swept by it (or even have it kill a poke). must just be my team.

I'm still not seeing all these killer rain dance teams everyone keeps talking about. The one's I've encountered haven't seemed to do too incredibly well. I feel like people are just slapping ludiculo/kabutops/electrode together and expecting to destroy the opponent. 8 turns of rain can be outstalled. Ya, my pokes may be dented but when the rain ends its open season.
 
I'm going to try and bring this up without actually bringing it up (meaning don't talk about policy and just focus on the question):

What are you guys going to be basing your votes on for the suspects? I don't see how anybody could possibly say "Crobat isn't broken" but turn right around and say that Gallade is.

I'll go more indepth about this later in the month, I'm just wondering if you guys know now before anything changes.
 
Personally, I think Shaymin is the single Pokemon beyond broken in this metagame. I use one in almost every team: the set goes like

Shaymin @Life Orb (Timid Nature 252 Sp. A/252 Spe/4 HP)
Seed Flare
Earth Power
HP Ice (use 22 Atk IV to get this)
Synthesis

Synthesis is way better than Rest because, obviously, you aren't forced to switch and make someone else take damage, as few sweepers can take hits like him. The only possible problem is against Sandstorm teams but those pretty much crumble to Shaymin anyways. In the teams I make that don't pan out, this Shaymin wins games single-handedly. One of the most ridiculous things I've done is beat a Charizard switch-in with the Seed Flare drop. Seriously, I can't believe this thing didn't become a suspect after so many people voted it to BL.
 
I've also been running Drapion with great success against Uxie, even with the screens coming up. If you're having problems with Uxie, try using an SD Drapion with Night Slash, Cross Poison and Earthquake, along with Sniper. After 1 or 2 SDs, I've found that Drapion handles Uxie, and lots of things for that matter, pretty well.

What I don't understand is why all these new Pokemon are relevant all of a sudden. Were these 6 Pokemon that dominating in this tier that all these Pokemon were just unusable?
 
Veedrock said:
I'm going to try and bring this up without actually bringing it up (meaning don't talk about policy and just focus on the question):

What are you guys going to be basing your votes on for the suspects? I don't see how anybody could possibly say "Crobat isn't broken" but turn right around and say that Gallade is.

I'll go more indepth about this later in the month, I'm just wondering if you guys know now before anything changes.
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I have a pretty clear memory of the suspects from before they were banned. I'm probably going to be basing my vote on that. The only one I'm kind of borderline on is Gallade. Otherwise, the suspectless metagame has given me sufficient comparison to determine the validity of my assessments, but I understand how it may seem flawed to not test them one at a time, or whatever. For example, the metagame is a much happier place without hail, and without Crobat there is a wonderful variety of leads and strategies that I enjoy. I no longer have to pack a Staraptor counter on every team. etc.
 
I thought I'd be seeing more Tauros lately due to his outragious speed and CB set. But I haven't.. and that worries me.

Mismagius I could see being a suspect as it can outspeed and setup and just about anything.
 
It seems like the Hellhound has no place in the UU metagame. I guess the combination of being outclassed by other fire types and weak to common priorities did him in, among a variety of other things.
 
I can't say Shaymin is broken right now. It is a very useful poke and can do a lot of things well but I have never seen it obliterate a team on its own. I want to give the metagame time to adjust. It's a top threat but isn't on my personal suspect list yet.

I really don't understand why Houndoom isn't used more. 95 base speed is very useable and he hits slowbro and registeel hard after a NP (along with plenty of other walls). A fire immunity affords him alot of switchins as well. SR weakness isn't the greatest but I've seen with arcanine that with smart play it doesn't matter.
 
Arcanine has an 80-power priority move off of 350 attack to work with, Houndoom has no such thing. He is also a lot more fragile than Arcanine.
 
Syberia said:
Arcanine has an 80-power priority move off of 350 attack to work with, Houndoom has no such thing. He is also a lot more fragile than Arcanine.
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Houndoom has an 80-power STAB priority move off of 306 attack to work with. He is however indeed a lot more fragile, which is the main problem he has, as well as the omnipresence of Azumarill preventing him from utilizing his main selling point, which is Nasty Plot sweeping. Fighting weak doesn't help either.

Still, if able to overcome these pitfalls, Houndoom can be quite potent, particularly against pure stall teams. If able to get a Nasty Plot he can comfortably dispatch of almost all the Registeels, Slowbros, Steelixes, Spiritombs, Chanseys, Clefables, Roserades, Drapions, Uxies etc that make up a typical stall team, and a lot more besides. Still has problems with Milotic and Hariyama though, which are quite common.

So all in all, I'd say that Houndoom is perhaps a tad underrated atm, but nevertheless he does have his fair share of major drawbacks that makes him somewhat difficult to use, even at the best of times.
 
I've been UUing like crazy lately, so I think I've seen a good amount of the new metagame to give my full opinion on it. So far I've seen a LOT of Electrode leads, it seems to me like they replaced Crobat as the favored Lead in UU. Not only that, but Ambipom is also very common. To be honest, I think the UU metagame is much better with these 6 Pokemon banned. The abundance of Hail-Stall teams is gone, and now that Gallade is banned, it's forcing people to get more creative with the Physical Sweepers they use. I thought Gallade was too broken for UU to begin with anyway. So far I think that if I were to vote right now, I'd vote for these Pokemon to be banned and go to OU permenantly, but I'll continue UUing and see what happens.
 
I have a question about this process.

So we experienced a brand new metagame, and we are now experiencing a metagame without the "six deadly suspects". So, now how are we supposed to vote on whether a suspect remains unbanned? For example, if Mismagius starts raping this metagame, do we ban it, or do we unban Raikou/Gallade/Crobat?

Sorry if this wasn't clear.
 
Suspect will be removed from the UU ladder to experience a different metagame.
After approximately a month of this metagame a process of voting with begin and using your experiences prior to the removal of the suspects and during, you will judge whether or not you believe any of the Pokemon can reasonably function in UU. It's important to remember, any decision made in voting now will not be set-in-stone and can be reexamined in the future.
The intended goal, in order to earn voting rights, is to obtain a rating 1655 or greater coupled with a deviation of 65 or less.
The result of the vote will determine whether a Suspect is identified as BL and if not it will be reintroduced to the UU ladder.
Finally, the process will begin again to determine if there are still any remaining suspects to be had in the revised UU ladder.
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I think the idea he was getting at was 'If banning a Pokemon makes numerous other Pokemon broken, is it reasonable to unban the original Pokemon, rather than ban a dozen more?'

I see where he's coming from, and I'd usually prefer the route that gives us the lowest number of banned Pokemon, however, if the Pokemon that has to be unbanned to prevent the other dozen Pokemon from becoming broken is so incredibly broken itself, I'd rather ban all 13.

However, I don't think any of the 6 suspects are that broken. However, I guess one could be, if the other 5 get banned.

I hope this made sense.
 
Oh, I see. Well, I think that people are not willing to accept top tier Pokemon. The UU metagame, just like OU, will never truly be balanced and thus the metagame with either lean towards stall or offensive. As a guess this is what I would expect other people to vote as future suspects...

Mismaggy- Able to setup on vairous pokes.
Shaymin- ???.
Clefable- Stall Killer.

...

Most complaints I've seen so far.
 
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