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np: UU - Six Deadly Suspects
- Thread starter Caelum
- Start date
- Status
Parasect is sort of hit and miss for a rain counter.
Pros:
Dry Skin and 4x Grass Resist
STAB on Grass and Bug
Dual Powder, great for disabling such an offensive team.
Cons:
Weakness to Ice
Kabutops/Qwilfish make it shit its pants
What else does it do for your team? Seems a little limited/situational.
Pros:
Dry Skin and 4x Grass Resist
STAB on Grass and Bug
Dual Powder, great for disabling such an offensive team.
Cons:
Weakness to Ice
Kabutops/Qwilfish make it shit its pants
What else does it do for your team? Seems a little limited/situational.
Uxie--->Gligar---->Bilbarel is really working for me.
I run 344 HP / 246 Def / 206 SpD / 250 Spe and Passho Berry on Gligar
Slowbro and Milotic Ice Beams are a 3HKO under lightscreen and Passho Berry means Azumarill can't disrupt me with Waterfall/Aqua Jet both 3HKO I think.
Bilbarel is an amazing recipient with incredible coverage from Waterfall/Return (I run Focus Punch with Lum Berry for a quick KO on stupid Registeels trying to para me) and it gets Quick Attack to ward off things like Honckrow. I don't even need to invest in speed because after one agility its 522 stat and its attack stat is astronomical after two SDs.
Azumarill is a great secondary recipient with Aqua Jet OHKOing Raikou with +4 attack iirc and having the beastly pure water typing.
Honckrow is being used in place of Staraptor a lot, and I presume that as stall increases without the suspects people will realise that Krow rapes a lot of stall teams with Life Orb variants. One such Pursuit OHKO'd my switching Claydol on my stall team and Registeel took around 80% from Superpower on another team. I doubt Milotic can stand up to Night Slashes, heck Super luck means it has a chance to OHKO with it, certainly Slowbro can't the beating either.
I run 344 HP / 246 Def / 206 SpD / 250 Spe and Passho Berry on Gligar
Slowbro and Milotic Ice Beams are a 3HKO under lightscreen and Passho Berry means Azumarill can't disrupt me with Waterfall/Aqua Jet both 3HKO I think.
Bilbarel is an amazing recipient with incredible coverage from Waterfall/Return (I run Focus Punch with Lum Berry for a quick KO on stupid Registeels trying to para me) and it gets Quick Attack to ward off things like Honckrow. I don't even need to invest in speed because after one agility its 522 stat and its attack stat is astronomical after two SDs.
Azumarill is a great secondary recipient with Aqua Jet OHKOing Raikou with +4 attack iirc and having the beastly pure water typing.
Honckrow is being used in place of Staraptor a lot, and I presume that as stall increases without the suspects people will realise that Krow rapes a lot of stall teams with Life Orb variants. One such Pursuit OHKO'd my switching Claydol on my stall team and Registeel took around 80% from Superpower on another team. I doubt Milotic can stand up to Night Slashes, heck Super luck means it has a chance to OHKO with it, certainly Slowbro can't the beating either.
I'm running Timid Specs Typhlosion and it is absolutely obscene right now. There are so few safe switchins to Typhlosion, and each one is pretty easy to handle. (Focus Punch strokes Chansey, though with some previous damage it is 2KOed by Eruption anyway, and it is straight 2koed by Blaze Fire Blast; HP Grass handles water-types, specifically Omastar, Kabutops, and Gastrodon; Earthquake can potentially handle Flash Fire Arcanine, Flareon, and Ninetales, though the former usually uses Intimidate and the last two are rarely used)
Basically, Typhlosion requires you to have either something that can take a hit and outspeed it (and base 100 speed is nothing to scoff at) or beat it down with Priority, or something that can take two hits and threaten it effectively. And as much as SR is a deterrent, it also allows Typhlosion to get down into its Blaze range, where its Fire Blast becomes an incredible force to be reckoned with.
Basically, Typhlosion requires you to have either something that can take a hit and outspeed it (and base 100 speed is nothing to scoff at) or beat it down with Priority, or something that can take two hits and threaten it effectively. And as much as SR is a deterrent, it also allows Typhlosion to get down into its Blaze range, where its Fire Blast becomes an incredible force to be reckoned with.
Charizard is just as dominant, if not more so thanks to Air Slash as a secondary STAB move to rely upon. There is the problem of a more major Stealth Rock weakness, but as far as an offensive threat goes I think Charizard has a slight edge. Heck, Moltres may even have an edge over both of them if you go for a full on special offensive set due to the superior Special Attack (though it's slower).
Also, I hate these BP teams.
Also, I hate these BP teams.
I'm really loving the suspect free metagame, especially when it comes to leads. I've run Electrode on my suspect free-rain team, which while it does have the sort of "free set up" thing Crobat had, it's pretty much deadwood and doesn't have the revenge killing capability Crobat has. However I've definitely seen at least 15 different leads. No Ambipoms at all yet, I'm not sure what's up with that. Lopunny with Magic Coat seems like a really great lead, in one battle it sent a Taunt back at my Electrode and then burned my Registeel by Switcheroo-ing a Flame Orb onto my Registeel. I'm really happy Frosslass is gone however, because it was an incredible lead, getting 2 layers of spikes up guaranteed, unless you had a faster Taunter. It was more of a problem then Crobat. I really hope niether come back, because I love the diversity we have right now.
The Rain team did pretty well, but most people know by now that Rain is beatable, pokemon like Slowbro, Shaymin, Registeel and Clefable can all really fuck with a sweep. I've been running Toxicroak to try and get by these big issues, but it requires a lot of predicition skills to begin with. Some people I've battled have said that Rain teams are "cheap" but they didn't use the words "broken". As much as I love my Rain team, I could very easily see Ludicolo fitting the offensive uber requirement, as being able to sweep through teams with ease, even though it does have it's counters. I'd say Ludicolo can be just as dangerous as Raikou, I'm not saying they are similar, but Ludicolo does sweep through teams very easily and so far it's one of the only things (maybe Typhlosion) that I would say might need to be taken out in the next round of suspects.
Eventually I decided to make a new team, one based around priority, and it's been wildely succesful, getting me out of some many different situations, were I let BP teams set up. Priority is really effective, and something you have to consider when building a team in this metagame.
I just wanted to list some suprising things I've encountered...
-No Ambipoms, which I find is completely shocking, even though I see that someone posted above that it's very effective
-Lots of Muk, I've seen at least five of these, and they are very hard to break down, they are a great fighting resist with all the fighting types running wild like Hitmontop, Hitmonlee, Toxicroak and Primape (who'se almost always a scarfed lead).
-Roserade is the primary spiker, and a good one at that. Not broken like Froslass, but you have to think when facing off against a lead version, because Roserade tends to be Scarf'd just as often as it is a Focus Sash-Spiker.
-Solrock, I've seen people experimenting with it, however it doesn't seem to be really effective.
-Way more Gastrodon then before the removal of suspects, it's a pretty strong wall to begin with, but don't switch it into Azumarril, it's 2hko'd easily by a CB Waterfall.
-Gilgar is a really great Baton Pass user, I haven't used it yet but it's set up easily on me many times. Taunt+SD+Agility+Baton Pass to Bibarel is hard to beat.
-Sandstorm teams are actually very effective. Hippoptas isn't dead weight at all, as it usually sets up Stealth Rocks no problem at some point in the battle. Also since in the grand scheme of most sandstorm team it is useless, it a great pokemon to throw at any sleep moves.
As far as the removed suspects are concerned, if I had to vote now I'd say Staraptor, Froslass, Crobat, and Abomasnow BL, while I would say Raikou is probably not. I'm up in the air on Gallade, because I can't see it sweeping with all the priority running around (especially since most of the priority preys on his weaker defense stat) but at the same time it really doesn't have counters in the classical sense. We'll see how I feel when the vote comes around.
I just looked at the Feb statistics, and I just realized Umbreon and Milotic are now OU. Are they going to be banned now and replaced with Yanmega (I'm scared) and Donphan (not quite as scary). I think we need to have guidlines for what to do in these situations. I feel pretty confident Yanmega will prove to be BL, while Donphan may end up being acceptable in UU.
I'd suggest this...
1. Play out the month with our current UU tier.
2. Vote on the previous suspects March 30th before the new information is released.
3. At the same time identify new suspects and remove them.
4. Add the pokemon that dropped from OU in the previous month (ex. Yanmega and Donphan from Feb. would go into UU at the beginning of March)
5. Test the month with the new round of suspects removed.
6. Identify new suspects. Here is were after a month of testing, we would then know if Yanmega and Donphan should be removed from suspect testing.
I'd also recommend that anything the had fallen from OU, but then returns another month be removed while it is OU, but if it falls again then it will be in whatever tier it tested into during it's first round of UU. However, pokemon that go into OU from UU, like Umbreon and Milotic, should be banned once they go into OU, but if they fall from OU should be put right back into UU, without a suspect period later on. This is a little complicated, but what I would do for anything that drops from OU into UU and vice-versa.
The Rain team did pretty well, but most people know by now that Rain is beatable, pokemon like Slowbro, Shaymin, Registeel and Clefable can all really fuck with a sweep. I've been running Toxicroak to try and get by these big issues, but it requires a lot of predicition skills to begin with. Some people I've battled have said that Rain teams are "cheap" but they didn't use the words "broken". As much as I love my Rain team, I could very easily see Ludicolo fitting the offensive uber requirement, as being able to sweep through teams with ease, even though it does have it's counters. I'd say Ludicolo can be just as dangerous as Raikou, I'm not saying they are similar, but Ludicolo does sweep through teams very easily and so far it's one of the only things (maybe Typhlosion) that I would say might need to be taken out in the next round of suspects.
Eventually I decided to make a new team, one based around priority, and it's been wildely succesful, getting me out of some many different situations, were I let BP teams set up. Priority is really effective, and something you have to consider when building a team in this metagame.
I just wanted to list some suprising things I've encountered...
-No Ambipoms, which I find is completely shocking, even though I see that someone posted above that it's very effective
-Lots of Muk, I've seen at least five of these, and they are very hard to break down, they are a great fighting resist with all the fighting types running wild like Hitmontop, Hitmonlee, Toxicroak and Primape (who'se almost always a scarfed lead).
-Roserade is the primary spiker, and a good one at that. Not broken like Froslass, but you have to think when facing off against a lead version, because Roserade tends to be Scarf'd just as often as it is a Focus Sash-Spiker.
-Solrock, I've seen people experimenting with it, however it doesn't seem to be really effective.
-Way more Gastrodon then before the removal of suspects, it's a pretty strong wall to begin with, but don't switch it into Azumarril, it's 2hko'd easily by a CB Waterfall.
-Gilgar is a really great Baton Pass user, I haven't used it yet but it's set up easily on me many times. Taunt+SD+Agility+Baton Pass to Bibarel is hard to beat.
-Sandstorm teams are actually very effective. Hippoptas isn't dead weight at all, as it usually sets up Stealth Rocks no problem at some point in the battle. Also since in the grand scheme of most sandstorm team it is useless, it a great pokemon to throw at any sleep moves.
As far as the removed suspects are concerned, if I had to vote now I'd say Staraptor, Froslass, Crobat, and Abomasnow BL, while I would say Raikou is probably not. I'm up in the air on Gallade, because I can't see it sweeping with all the priority running around (especially since most of the priority preys on his weaker defense stat) but at the same time it really doesn't have counters in the classical sense. We'll see how I feel when the vote comes around.
I just looked at the Feb statistics, and I just realized Umbreon and Milotic are now OU. Are they going to be banned now and replaced with Yanmega (I'm scared) and Donphan (not quite as scary). I think we need to have guidlines for what to do in these situations. I feel pretty confident Yanmega will prove to be BL, while Donphan may end up being acceptable in UU.
I'd suggest this...
1. Play out the month with our current UU tier.
2. Vote on the previous suspects March 30th before the new information is released.
3. At the same time identify new suspects and remove them.
4. Add the pokemon that dropped from OU in the previous month (ex. Yanmega and Donphan from Feb. would go into UU at the beginning of March)
5. Test the month with the new round of suspects removed.
6. Identify new suspects. Here is were after a month of testing, we would then know if Yanmega and Donphan should be removed from suspect testing.
I'd also recommend that anything the had fallen from OU, but then returns another month be removed while it is OU, but if it falls again then it will be in whatever tier it tested into during it's first round of UU. However, pokemon that go into OU from UU, like Umbreon and Milotic, should be banned once they go into OU, but if they fall from OU should be put right back into UU, without a suspect period later on. This is a little complicated, but what I would do for anything that drops from OU into UU and vice-versa.
Electrode is actually pretty cool. It doesn't even need to set up rain. It is pretty much gyaranteed to stop SR and and then Explode. Very cool
I believe re-tiering only happens every quarter (so nothing moves up or down until April).
Ludicolo rapes rain teams. I'm changing my entire team around right now just because of that reason. I just fought a team with a Snover, Wallrein and Sealeo, so don't think hail teams are dead just yet. I've also yet to find a suitable replacement for Raikou. Manetric isn't working out as I had hoped.
Ampharos doesn't have the speed, but its survivability and attack power may help you.
Many Ambipoms now seem to run Adamant (or I've been lucky with the speed ties). I'm surprised some people see so few Ambipoms, I see so many.
I've only played one hail team, but I somehow lost because of an Intimidate Hitmontop.
Shaymin is really a bitch now, even more so than before.
I may post some more thoughts later.
Many Ambipoms now seem to run Adamant (or I've been lucky with the speed ties). I'm surprised some people see so few Ambipoms, I see so many.
I've only played one hail team, but I somehow lost because of an Intimidate Hitmontop.
Shaymin is really a bitch now, even more so than before.
I may post some more thoughts later.
Shaymin was always a bitch on the attacking side, as even Chansey could theoretically be forced out if you get a SpD drop with Seed Flare.
What doesn't help now is that there isn't Staraptor to scare him off.
What doesn't help now is that there isn't Staraptor to scare him off.
Slowbro is really hard to break down, it's been killing me lately, most hard hitting grass types aren't solid counters because of Ice Beam. Any one else having a hard time dealing with Slowbro?
I'm also noticing a huge spike in Lum Berry leads, I've seen Arcanine, Kabutops and Roserade today.
I'm also noticing a huge spike in Lum Berry leads, I've seen Arcanine, Kabutops and Roserade today.
Okay so after nearly three days of battling in the new environment, I am currently finding it to be just as enjoyable as it was prior to Suspect removal; no more, no less. I've seen roughly the same amount of diversity as there was previously too, with a good number of previously rare-ish pokes getting much more use now. Honchkrow, Drapion and Regirock are just a few that I've noticed getting a lot more use.
As far as leads go, Lum Berry Arcanine is indeed very common now, and for good reason as it's fantastic at the moment. I use it myself, and have in fact brought back my old Arcanine team in pretty much its previous form as I have found it to work much more efficiently in this new metagame. Almost all run LR's set, which is unsurprising as it works very well, but I've been running HP Ground over Overheat for other 'Canines and Fire types to great success. I predict a semi-permanent switch around in popularity sometime soon, although Overheat does still have its advantages. I have also noticed a rise in Kabutops leads recently (even though it worked perfectly well, if not better, as a lead before), possibly in response to Arcanine's popularity.
I have to say, it's getting fairly lonely at the top of the ladder atm, as PurpleWeezing is the only guy even close to me. Why is this? It's usually more tightly packed up there. Are people currently focusing more on OU's Suspect testing, or is it something to do with preserving your account's deviation until closer to voting time?
As far as leads go, Lum Berry Arcanine is indeed very common now, and for good reason as it's fantastic at the moment. I use it myself, and have in fact brought back my old Arcanine team in pretty much its previous form as I have found it to work much more efficiently in this new metagame. Almost all run LR's set, which is unsurprising as it works very well, but I've been running HP Ground over Overheat for other 'Canines and Fire types to great success. I predict a semi-permanent switch around in popularity sometime soon, although Overheat does still have its advantages. I have also noticed a rise in Kabutops leads recently (even though it worked perfectly well, if not better, as a lead before), possibly in response to Arcanine's popularity.
I have to say, it's getting fairly lonely at the top of the ladder atm, as PurpleWeezing is the only guy even close to me. Why is this? It's usually more tightly packed up there. Are people currently focusing more on OU's Suspect testing, or is it something to do with preserving your account's deviation until closer to voting time?
The best strategy I've found is to poison it
You are ggGerbil?
Anyways, i have been rising up, my team is shakey-ish compared to what it was before with Raikou, and its definately not hax proof. Speaking of Hax, i have seen a great deal of it, im sure the Warstory is some proof and i have all of my logs saved so far. Its a pretty uneasy feeling actually.
But as my team gets better, Hax will slowly matter less, or I would like to think so anyway.
So I finally know who this ggGerbil guy is ;)
I have to say that UU is much more fun for me as the suspects are removed. But I think that's mainly my opinion, as I'm the offensive type of player and Raikou ruined heavy offense before.
Well, I've seen a good amount of different leads as well... Ambipom and Arcanine are really common, so I began using Kabutops which works great for me. There are still a lot of Roserade leads, most are scarved, but ppl begin using the Sashed Spiker, probably as a worse Froslass (which doesn't mean it's bad). Other common leads include Electrode for Rain Dance and even a few Smeargles (Scarf, "Froslass", even Endeavor...). Also I faced a few Snover's right now ^_^
The two most powerful Pokes in this new nUU are Shaymin and (imo) Honchkrow. Shaymin is still a beast to take down, while it hits like a truck. Honchkrow's combination of STAB Sucker Punch and Pursuit are absurdly deadly as well. On the defensive Slowbro is as good as ever, as is Registeel.
I'll add more things later.
I have to say that UU is much more fun for me as the suspects are removed. But I think that's mainly my opinion, as I'm the offensive type of player and Raikou ruined heavy offense before.
Well, I've seen a good amount of different leads as well... Ambipom and Arcanine are really common, so I began using Kabutops which works great for me. There are still a lot of Roserade leads, most are scarved, but ppl begin using the Sashed Spiker, probably as a worse Froslass (which doesn't mean it's bad). Other common leads include Electrode for Rain Dance and even a few Smeargles (Scarf, "Froslass", even Endeavor...). Also I faced a few Snover's right now ^_^
The two most powerful Pokes in this new nUU are Shaymin and (imo) Honchkrow. Shaymin is still a beast to take down, while it hits like a truck. Honchkrow's combination of STAB Sucker Punch and Pursuit are absurdly deadly as well. On the defensive Slowbro is as good as ever, as is Registeel.
I'll add more things later.
lol, exactly what I realized as well. Either I haxxed my opponent, or he haxxed me (in one match i had like 10 misses of SE/Seed Flare ~_~)
One thing that I have noticed is that the best players are all playing Stall (although this probably applies to OU too, as it is the more consistant playstyle). We have taken out most of the Pokemon with a strong Close Combat and as a result, Clefable, Registeel etc... are all finding it easier to "wall," and by that I mean prevent sweeps and force switches, furthering residual damage. Kabutops and Omastar are also both seen a lot more frequently. All of the battles I have had against battlers higher up the ladder, most notably Lemmiwinks and Eo, have been really whether I can get my stall breaker in and set up to sweep, if not, it's is game over.
At this point I will be dissapointed if we ban both Gallade and Staraptor, and if I were to cast my votes now, I would probably end up banning Raptor and Crobat, that is all. I must say it is nice to see a little more diversity in the leads too (LRcanine is still going strong, but is reasonably easily countered) so I would probably "consider" banning Froslass, and I am still as undecided as ever on Abomasnow. Obviously these are all early thoughts and my mind is as open as ever, so don't go making hasty conclusions from my words!
At this point I will be dissapointed if we ban both Gallade and Staraptor, and if I were to cast my votes now, I would probably end up banning Raptor and Crobat, that is all. I must say it is nice to see a little more diversity in the leads too (LRcanine is still going strong, but is reasonably easily countered) so I would probably "consider" banning Froslass, and I am still as undecided as ever on Abomasnow. Obviously these are all early thoughts and my mind is as open as ever, so don't go making hasty conclusions from my words!
Of course. I thought that was common knowledge by now.
I don't consider my current team to be purely Stall. I only use Stealth Rock as an entry hazard for one, but rather I consider it to be more bulky offense with an element of stall. IMO pure stall is very risky in this environment for the fact that deadly hax abusers are on the rise, as I've alluded to in my previous post, therefore relying on consistently switching around to wall attacks without providing a decent counter-attack is riskier than ever, as you'll end up on the receiving end of a fatal crit much more often.
On that note, I've noticed that many Honchkrows are sticking to the standard Sucker Punch + Pursuit combo as their Dark-type offense. Although the merits of this combo are more than obvious, I feel that this is a mistake and that people should be using the reliable Night Slash more often, mainly because of Slowbro. Without it you're allowing Slowbro to actually set up in your face (barring two crits in a row or something similar) when you should be putting it in a dilemma. Life Orb just makes things worse. Given how popular and potentially annoying Slowbro is, I would never pass up that kind of opportunity. Also useful for other bulky Waters like Milotic.
I've found a lot of Azumarill usage going on, probably because it's the biggest offensive threat now that Gallade,Staraptor, and Raikou are gone. Lots of teams seem to be running Slowbro now too, probably to counter Azumarill and to be a general wallish type Pokemon. With Raikou and Shaymin gone itmopens up the door for water types and I feel that Azumarill and Slowbro are the best of the bunch.
I'd like to disagree completely Cynthia. Azumaril is actually alot weaker in this metagame.
Its for a reason too, and that reason is Shaymin. With Shaymin so popular, especially with Raikou gone, Azumaril is rather useless half the time. Shaymin is still here if you forgot :P.
Its for a reason too, and that reason is Shaymin. With Shaymin so popular, especially with Raikou gone, Azumaril is rather useless half the time. Shaymin is still here if you forgot :P.
Azumarril and Slowbro?
I'd figure with no Abomasnow that the other waters, the Rain Dancers i.e. Kabutops / Omastar / Qwilfish would be prevalent.
Anyone else seeing this spike in Azumarril and Slowbro?
That might open the door for some unappreciated Grass types i.e. Meganium, Leafeon and Venusaur to retake the floor, if true.
I'd figure with no Abomasnow that the other waters, the Rain Dancers i.e. Kabutops / Omastar / Qwilfish would be prevalent.
Anyone else seeing this spike in Azumarril and Slowbro?
That might open the door for some unappreciated Grass types i.e. Meganium, Leafeon and Venusaur to retake the floor, if true.
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