German teenager kills sixteen

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Altmer

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German boy commits massacre at school.

Holy fucking hell. I'm scared. Remember Columbine? Remember Virginia Tech? Remember the two Finnish school shootings? Remember Erfurt Gymnasium?

We have a follow-up, again. I wonder what the world is coming to.

I wish I had The Kinslayer by Nightwish with me in tribute but I don't, sadly.

"for whom the gun tolls"
 
Times like these where I wish they caught the shooter alive and torture him slowly painfully for all the harm he's done.
 
Wasn't it eleven or twelve of whom were women?
The English media, true to form, began victim-blaming insinuations this morning (surprised it took them twelve hours, to be fair), pointing out he'd 'targeted women' because 'he'd never had a girlfriend'.. right. If we'd fucked him, this wouldn't have happened!
The whole thing depresses the shit out of me - even more so because this has a clearly feminist angle.

And, Evan - torture gets us nowhere. We can't possibly look down on someone who performs these acts and then say we want to torture them - to do so would reduce our morality to his level.
 
I read that too. I don't know what to make of it. Having someone kill themselves is enough (I have experienced cases of suicide at our school a few times.) But what drives someone to such utter madness to kill sixteen people total? I just.... am left baffled.
 
My god, I can understand feeling so angry / sad that you see as taking your own life as an easy way out; there is no excuse for feeling that way, then killing 16 people. Fucking Christ, I'm getting sick just thinking about it.
 
Akuchi, apparently eight female students were shot dead with three female teachers. Only one male student was killed. Another three people were killed, but they weren't identified to the media.

This massacre apparently goes back to bullying and the lack of recognition of the said killer - he stated that he was always mocked, having a "crummy life" and that his potential of whatever was always left unrecognised, if I recall correctly. Apparently, he had this somewhat planned, and thought the only way out or to get revenge was to go on a killing spree at his old school which is utterly ridiculous and has no acceptable reasoning.

It honestly disgusts me to no end what goes through people's mind sometimes. Do they honestly have no conscience? As if having thoughts about murdering a fellow human being isn't fucked up enough.

I read the news daily, mainly the top stories, and this isn't the only fucked up shit that some humans pull. There are just so many beyond disturbing news out there. You'd expect something different from the previous day, but there is always something about murders or some other repulsive inhumane actions like sexual abuse. This is to the point where I expect to read about these immoral deeds daily.
 
My condolences go out to the families of the victims, it's a horrible tragedy that no one should ever have to suffer. What I always fail to understand is how people this mentally unstable seem to go under the radar for such a long period of time before they go nuts. On a separate note it always disgusts me when the media has to parade out some experts that claim the shooter was bullied and that's what led to that. Yes, bullying can be a serious problem; but a lot of times these so-called experts get up and seem to mitigate the responsibility on the shooter because he was bullied which is just sickening to me.

It seems like these types of events are becoming more and more common (could possibly be my perception since I don't have stats or anything), and that is truly a sad case of society.


(BTW, your link is broken you have an extra http://)
 
To be honest the media coverage is what fuels these attacks. I doubt many of these people would think of shooting up a school if they hadn't seen it done already. Why these assholes can't just commit suicide and deprive the world of their stupidity is beyond me. Especially when they shoot people who have absolutely nothing to do with them: "On the way the gunman shot dead a gardener who was working in the grounds of a psychiatric hospital by firing seven rounds at him."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/slaughter-in-class-horrifies-germany-1643070.html

Apparently he warned of the attack in a chatroom the night/morning before. Also, he played counterstrike, so I am sure the anti-gaming lobby is going to have a field-day.

http://www.zeit.de/online/2009/12/amoklauf-internet-ankuendigung-chatroom
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/school-shooter-warned-of-attack-1643447.html
 
It's really sad that this happens on more than one occasion. I just can't fathom what was going on in his head. I mean he obviously had so much hate or something. Such a tragedy.
 
Akuchi- If the people doing this knew the horrors that would await them as society exacted a punishment far worse than death, you might see fewer people doing it...or they might just elect to eat a bullet that much faster.

At least in Canada the worst we usually get is a series of violent cat murders but it's followed by no criminal justice repricussions whatsoever, but I should be knocking on wood after saying that the way things are going.
 
before i begin, lemme just say this kid was sick in the head and stuff like this really disturbs me.


however, i think its a shame that this stuff is happening year after year and no one is doing anything about it. all of these shootings have had a few things in common, 1.) usually the killers have been bullied or mocked for an extremely long time, 2.) usually the killers were in need of psychiatric help and got none, and 3.) usually they had relationship issues.

my gosh people, i see this going on in my school everyday with teachers watching and yet for no reason, nothing is ever done. Teachers, students, and parents need to start stepping in, not only at fights, but when people are being bullied, or when they need relationship help.

i have reported 4 kids this year to a school psychiatrist when they were thinking of doing something terrible to someone who had previously bullied them or when they said they just dont care anymore when things arent going right for them. and kids say these kinds of things all the time. and those 4 kids all came back to me later and thanked me. they got their act together and are now doing successful in school and the bullying is over.

honestly, this kid was sick but i think its time people actually stop this before it even starts ie: take care of the bullies before mass bullying starts. but for some reason people think this is a freak occurance that is for some reason happening over and over again. no, its not a freak occurance, its the result of no one helping someone when they are at their low point in life.
 
I'm going to have to disagree with you mormooipod, people who are mentally unstable enough to do these kinds of things really don't care what is going to happen to them and torture cannot be justified
 
Yeah they do tend to not think ahead at the time of the crime, don't they? Maybe KD24 has a reasonable solution that will never be reasonably executed.
 
KD24 said:
honestly, this kid was sick but i think its time people actually stop this before it even starts ie: take care of the bullies before mass bullying starts. but for some reason people think this is a freak occurance that is for some reason happening over and over again. no, its not a freak occurance, its the result of no one helping someone when they are at their low point in life.
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I also think the environment in schools should be freed from bullies, and many other things.

This is a disgrace, but we can't turn a blind eye to the reasons the killers had, no they are NOT justified because these are issues in their mind and yes, there is evil in their ways, but i believe there is such a lack of attention to the students, and just no way to identify the ones that are suffering inside, potential killers, suicidal and etc.

My point is this guy could get professional help in time and maybe this wouldn't happened. I don't believe society is decaying, but it's certainly more insensitive.
 
Of course torture is out of the question, but I can understand Mormoopid's frustration. After all, he (and I) live in a country where a man can stab a fellow he's never even spoken to 60+ times, sever his head and ritualistically spread his body parts around a Greyhound bus, and be found "not criminally responsible".

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/march-04-2009-accused-decapitator-vince-li-trial-not-guilty

As for KD's point, I agree wholeheartedly, and have found myself on a few occasions trying to convince some very fed-up people that violence won't solve a thing.
 
Torture resolves nothing. Those involved in these killing sprees usually commit suicide before being caught anyway. The killers have a primal need: that of the powerless to exert power over the powerful (i.e. the bullies). They want their moment of fame, to show others "who is boss", and could care less about the consequences. Life, to them, is not worth living in the first place, so they might as well satisfy this urge before ending it. This is why the modern penal system is ineffective at preventing crimes of any but the most petty sort; because it doesn't seek to prevent but to exercise collective revenge and social domination (which ironically fulfills the same desire the killers have, but for society-writ-large). Violence breeds violence. State-sanctioned violence is no more a solution than are shooting sprees. (This relates to Michel Foucault's work, which I have been looking into lately.)

I don't believe society is decaying, but it's certainly more insensitive.
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I tend to agree with Marilyn Manson that "times have not become more violence. They have just become more televised." I don't believe that society is decaying but that it has always been thoroughly decayed. On the other hand, mass media do create desensitization (e.g., look at how easily one becomes immune to shock images after using the Internet for an extented period). Human beings seem rather obsessed with violence in general to the point that the vast majority of our social institutions are predicated on either implicit (e.g. bureaucracy) or explicit (e.g. police) violence.
 
Luduan said:
I tend to agree with Marilyn Manson that "times have not become more violence. They have just become more televised." I don't believe that society is decaying but that it has always been thoroughly decayed.
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Yeah, that's true, 1000/500/100 etc years ago it was more common to kill, pillage, rape(all these for examples) and many other things that are still present in modern society.

You have a really interesting point of view on your whole post!
 
So once again we see that bullying will always run the risk of getting you killed.

As stated above, the anti-gaming lobby will be jizzing in their pants over this tragedy/statistic, and once again the media will spout forth enough lies to put themselves into the US presidency, which isn't a hard task by any means.

My condolences to the victims, and again, I have to ask the world why us teens are seen as a race of beings whose sole purpose seems to be to binge on booze, smoke themselves to ham, fuck each other and get each other pregnant, and to pop each other's brains out with ballistic arms when a simple dive off a tall building will make an equally bloody mess that will only result in one family grieving, instead of an entire nation.

Bullies are wolves: When in a pack they're seemingly invincible, but they'll turn tail and flee when you turn around in a combine harvester with blades whirring. Hell, I know how it feels, yet I dealt with it and look at me now, on a pokemon forum waiting for college to open up in Summer.

Wait...

OT: So many idiots, so many deaths easily averted if the little 'misogynist' didn't just cap himself to begin with.

Also, ignore what the poms say, akuchi: The english tabloids don't know massacre from manicure.
 
Luduan and NESgamer: You're being incredibly general, the murder might not even be a violent person but someone who wants recognition, to be feared and to possibly get revenge.

"People used to be more violent" Who was? What people? I think you'll find that with all the many different cultures, classes and nations it's hard to make very general sweeping statements like that.

@Akuchi
I agree completely with you, it's definitely not the women who were killed faults. And it's fairly insulting to their memory that it would be reported in that fashion. I mean, if he was a virgin and had never been a girlfriend would that mean that probably 80% of Smogon, 99% of 4chan and all the weeaboo's and otaku's would have gone on killing rampages.

Honestly though, I think that he's a pathetic human being. To fall down so low that the only way that you can imagine getting glory is through committing a heinous crime and making others suffer. I just can't imagine being so morally bankrupt.

Oh and to anyone who somehow thinks that the bullies to blame you are a moron. He may have been bullied but I'm fairly sure that he wasn't bullied by the people that he killed and if he was bullied by those exact people then killing them is just crazy.

Maybe psych evaluation tests and mental health in many western countries should be overhauled and examined because this shit just won't fly. I'm not talking about medicating everyone either, I'm talking about people resolving their issues and finding out where they want to go in life and what they want to do. Life is too precious to just throw it away on a whim.

What I am now beginning to understand is that most of these school shootings are just Columbine copycat murders. Young males who feel pathetic and want to be feared and replicate the mass hysteria that Columbine caused, which in turn was fueled by the mass media.

It's a viscious cycle and I'm glad nothing like this has happened in Australia...yet.

I'm sure that the only reason that it's happened so much more in America and not here or in Europe (Apart from Norway and Germany) is because of the lax gun laws in America.
 
klarth said:
Luduan and NESgamer: You're being incredibly general, the murder might not even be a violent person but someone who wants recognition, to be feared and to possibly get revenge.
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That was sort of my point, I thought.
"People used to be more violent" Who was? What people? I think you'll find that with all the many different cultures, classes and nations it's hard to make very general sweeping statements like that.
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Although (I assume) you are referring to NESgamer and not me here, I do agree that people have not become less violent but rather have channeled violence in different manners. In statistical terms (for what they are worth), however, it does appear as though physical violence (e.g. murder, rape, capital punishment, war) has sharply decreased in recent years (this is part of Foucault's argument that we have merely found more efficient methods of exerting sociopolitical violence). I read a brief article on this a while ago that I am unable to locate again, but I did find this (unfortunately long) video by Steven Pinker that offers some of the same arguments and statistical data. Though I disagree strongly with his analysis, it is still interesting.
 
All of this further supports the fact that gun laws are far too relaxed. It's sick to imagine somebody a year older than me could kill people my age and younger. I also think it's futile to try and second guess the killers exact motives because it's probably a combination of many different reasons. I think it's disgusting though that somebody could take out all their frustration and anger out on innocent people. My condolences to the families of the victims. I'm also surprised the media haven't started going on about how easy it is for children to get guns and turn them on their peers. In case people don't know the gun used belonged to the killers Dad, who owned it legally.
 
latios315 said:
I'm going to have to disagree with you mormooipod, people who are mentally unstable enough to do these kinds of things really don't care what is going to happen to them and torture cannot be justified
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This is why IMO any of these kinds of crimes sould automaticly carry the death penalty they have shown that they are simply too dangerous and uncaring about what happens to themselfs or other people to be kept alive if said people are caught alive and didn't have the guts to get the police to shoot them dead or shoot themselfs or what ever.
 
AJC said:
This is why IMO any of these kinds of crimes sould automaticly carry the death penalty they have shown that they are simply too dangerous and uncaring about what happens to themselfs or other people to be kept alive if said people are caught alive and didn't have the guts to get the police to shoot them dead or shoot themselfs or what ever.
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I'll have to disagree with you about this. I'd be for the death penalty for certain crimes, such as mass murder, severe child abuse (like what happened to Baby P), and Pedophilia, however I feel if 1,000,000 people were given the death penalty and in 1 case there was a mistake and somebody was killed innocently then that would justify why we shouldn't have it. I also feel that death is the easy way out, there's a reason why people like Harold Shipman commit suicide in prison. Prisoners don't like people that commit crimes like this so they're not going to give the people an easy time. Also don't you think it's hypocritical to criticise somebody for committing crimes like this and then to kill them.
 
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