Long time Pokemon player, short time battler, and first time poster. I've found battling surprisingly rich and fun. I hope to be able to learn a lot and, in time, contribute back.
After playing around with a bunch of different teams and having middling success and really too much to choose from, I decided to make a rain dance team. Restrictions breed creativity, and having this focus has helped me immensely.
I'm going to start off with the pokemon I am happiest with, not my lead. Hopefully this will give a good indication of which roles are well filled in this team, and which aren't. After this I will probably give a few comments on how I play this team and the general issues I have noticed as a result.
Let's get started!
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Rain Special Sweeper
Ludicolo (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 120 Atk/136 Spe/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Surf
- Energy Ball
- Ice Beam
- Focus Punch
Role: Special sweeper in the rain. It gets very good type coverage and is surprisingly powerful. It does really well later in the game when there are fewer possible switch-ins, which makes picking an attack that much easier. Excellent typing gives neutrality to grass and electricity. 4x water resist can be useful for other water-types trying to take advantage of the rain.
Moves: Surf in the rain is just powerful. Energy Ball for STAB to hit water-types. I have elected not to use Grass Knot because of Vaporeon, but honestly I don't have enough experience to know which is the better-suited choice. Ice Beam covers grass-types and offers important type coverage (ie. dragons). Focus Punch is for Blissey (and Snorlax). It's difficult for me to predict the switch-ins regularly, but when FP works it can really dent Blissey, who otherwise walls Ludicolo.
Focus Punch is fairly new. I had tried rain dance for the fourth slot, but I never really had the chance to properly use it, and the duration without damp rock is disappointing.
EVs, Nature: Maximize SAtk. 136 Spe puts me at 210, enough to outrun all Scarf Heatran in the rain. This allows me to put the rest in Atk to get more out of Focus Punch.
=========================
Rain Mixed Attacker
Kingdra (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk/16 Spe/240 SAtk
Lonely nature (+Atk, -Def)
- Waterfall
- Hydro Pump
- Draco Meteor
- Outrage
Role: I usually use him earlier on. Waterfall is the main choice here for its solid, dependable damage, doing well in particular to any Blissey expecting a special attacking set and forcing it back out with a 2HKO. This will tend to bring in the appropriate physical wall or water resistance that they have. Kingdra's excellent typing also gives is grass and electric neutrality. 4x fire resist means he can deal with fire-types when the rain runs out.
Moves: Kingdra doesn't have much to choose from. Waterfall is the main attack, as explained above. Hydro Pump and Draco meteor for powerful special attacks against anything expecting physical attacks. Outrage for the last slot to give another powerful STAB physical attack. The issue I have with these choices is that the dragon-type moves will cripple Kingdra, either by reducing its SAtk or locking itself into Outrage. So, the mere existence of water resists puts me in a bit of a tough situation. Outrage does let me deal with Latias very easily, though.
EVs, Nature: From the Smogon set: enough speed to outrun Scarftran. Maximize attack (for waterfall) and special attack thereafter. I ran Lonely after noticing Kingdra was getting mostly special attacks aimed at it, but I'm not dead set on it.
=========================
Rain Support Attacker
Rotom-W @ Damp Rock
Ability: Leviate
EVs: 252 Hp/4 Def/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Rain Dance
- Hydro Pump
- Shadow Ball
- Thunder
Role: The three immunities it possesses allow for switch-in opportunities. He can set up 8-turn rain for the swift swimmers, but also use it to great effect. Hydro pump gets boosted and Thunder gains perfect accuracy. Deals with water types as well as opposing electric types. I have been pleasantly surprised with its offensive ability, and end up going on the offense with it more often than I imagined I would.
Moves: Rain dance for support is the core of this set. STAB Thunder is one of the main draws of Rotom-W, bringing great power and paralysis rate and is another way besides swift swim in which I can abuse the rain. Hydro pump, already very powerful, gets boosted even further in the rain, and can deal well with opposing electrics trying to come in on a Thunder. Shadow Ball is there for STAB and to get more coverage that my team fairly sorely lacks. It's my primary option against grasses, and thankfully is super-effective against Celebi.
EVs, Nature: 252 HP to help out that horrible base 50 and let it survive longer. I put the rest in SAtk, because I have found Rotom to be fairly slow on average. But I don't know enough about what I 'need' to outrun, resting at 208 Speed at the moment. Should I run more (rather, any) speed EVs at the expense of SAtk?
=========================
I'm very happy with these three so far. They all perform their jobs quite well. I have tried to get a good mix of physical and special attacks, but Rotom just gets walled by Blissey, period. Otherwise, I have outs, but the prediction is difficult. More on this after the rest of my team.
=========================
Rain, Support
Jirachi @ Damp Rock
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Hp/72 Def/32 Spe/80 SAtk/72 SDef
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Rain Dance
- Thunder
- Wish
- U-Turn
Role: Jirachi is fairly bulky and can set up rain dance numerous times. Rain removes the fire weakness and gives Thunder perfect accuracy for the 60% paralysis chance. Unlike Rotom-W, though, I never find myself wanting to stay in with Jirachi. Wish is excellent support for the Life Orb sweepers.
Moves: Rain dance for support is the core of this set, like Rotom. Thunder gives an attack that might catch a super-effective attack for those not expecting it, and the paralysis can cripple many things. I'm not sure how important this is, though, as for the most part I never get the chance to paralyze anything that I'd really want to (like Scarfers). Wish is something else that on paper looked quite good. When I pull it off successfully it's amazing, but I don't get to do so as often as I'd like - Jirachi is often busy trying to re-start the rain and doesn't get a good chance to get in a Wish as well. U-turn is to scout switches, but I'll have more to say about U-turn at the end.
EVs, Nature: I will admit that I am not very good with EVs. These are - actually, I don't remember where these are from. HP for sturdiness, but I'm not sure what I'm doing in specific with what's left. Suggestions are most welcome!
=========================
Rain Lead
Azelf @ Damp Rock
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Hp/4 Atk/252 Spe
Jolly nature (+Spe, -SAtk)
- Rain Dance
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion
- U-Turn
Role: Start the battle by getting out rain and/or Stealth Rock. Explode when appropriate at low health, or u-turn to facilitate switches. Azelf is fast and can usually do the first two things, but I have found his staying power a little lacking. Actually, extremely lacking, especially since Explosion seems too telegraphed to use with confidence.
Moves: RD is required if neither of my swift swimmers know it. SR is good to have on a lead for such an offense-oriented team like this, since I don't have it elsewhere. See my thoughts on U-turn at the bottom. Explosion is good on paper, but very predictable, so I end up usually U-turning to see them bring out a ghost type. If he survives to late game, Explosion can open up a huge hole in the opposing team, but it doesn't happen that often in my experience.
EVs, Nature: Maximize speed as much as possible to get rain and SR out quickly. After that I maximized HP so it can sort of take two hits if it's lucky, which is important without focus sash.
=========================
Rain Support
Scizor @ Damp Rock
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Hp/16 Atk/240 SDef
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Rain Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Roost
- U-Turn
Role: RaikouLover's bulky rain Scizor. Set up rain dance, roost off damage, take hits to U-turn out and get something in safely and deal a fair bit of damage at the same time. Bullet punch is my only priority move and from what I can tell is one of the main reasons Scizor is such a beast in general. In the rain, Scizor's horrible fire weakness is halved. I used to have a CB Dugtrio here (with Rain Dance shifted to Ludicolo).
Moves: Mostly talked about above. Rain dance is needed for support, and Bullet Punch for a powerful priority attack in case it's needed. Roost and U-turn are support options, but sometimes I wonder if a more offensive SD set would work well; besides Rain Dance I have no set-up moves and could use another dimension to my attack.
EVs, Nature: From RaikouLover's set. Maximize HP to take hits. 16 Atk EVs for the "bonus point" (hmm, I see it in Shoddy but I've never read about this. Could someone explain?). The rest in SDef to take special hits better.
=========================
Things I Have Noticed / Wondered about:
Switch-ins: Generally, once I set up rain, I want to get in a swift swimmer, or possibly Rotom-W. Since Ludicolo generally serves best at the end of a match, this basically involves switching Kingdra in. This leaves me with few options, which is obviously a bad thing, especially since most battles seem to involve a lot of switching.
U-turn: This ties in with switching in. U-turn is often touted as a great way for scouting an opponent's switch. But in the rain, I want my swift swimmers out anyway, so there's not a whole lot I can do with this information, especially as they can just switch again to their bulky grass/water/wall if I do get a good switch. I need to keep the swift swimmers in and do their job while there's rain - if I don't take advantage of the rain, this team won't stand a chance. Also, quick U-turns often just amount to my swift swimmers taking an attack. Even if it's neutral, that one extra attack combined with Life Orb recoil takes its toll quickly. It seems slower speeds on U-turners is better to keep my sweepers as safe as possible while switching. And, except on Scizor (and sometimes Azelf), U-turn is not doing a whole lot of damage. Am I playing the switch-ins poorly? Do I need another swift swimmer in order to increase my options while U-turning in the rain? Who should take the U-turn hit?
Choice Scarf: These are annoying, as it seems the best way to deal with these things is through switching, not something I want to be doing in the rain. Suggestions?
Status: Toxic is annoying if I'm facing a wall. If I'm sweeping it adds up quickly with Life Orb damage, but the damage I output seems to make it worth it. Paralysis can destroy the helpful effects of Swift Swim. Burn is annoying, but thankfully not seen very often at the same time as Blissey. I have two toxic immunes, but no burn immunes, no Thunder Wave immmunes, and nothing to absorb sleep either. Would Aromatherapy be worthwhile?
Rain stops: Damp Rock lets the rain last a decent while. But, it stops eventually. Should I be attacking the last turn of the rain, or be switching out to a rain dance supporter, so they can immediately restore the rain the turn after it stops? Both Scizor and Jirachi are fire-weak, which really lets fire-type Pokemon run rampant while I am scrambling to get the rain back up. This sort of conflicts with U-turn, which wants (as far as I see) a lower speed run, but for these two Rain Dance can often act as a pseudo-Light Screen, so I really want to go first against fire-type attacks.
Ninjask/General BPing: Is a serious issue. I want Taunt or Roar somewhere. But ... where?
=========================
Aside from the above issues, I find this to be effective at dealing with other offensive teams so long as they don't outspeed me - Agility can be an issue. I've tried to up the wallbreaking ability of my sweepers, but incorrect prediction can have serious consequences with Focus Punch, Outrage or Draco Meteor. For example, Suicine can be handled fairly easily if you get off a Draco Meteor as it switches in, especially with SR support. But, if not, you can find yourself wearing away your life with resisted LO attacks, or switching and wasting the rain. Any advice on this?
Well, there you have it. I am not familiar with things well enough to be able to look and see which common sets are threats, so if you see something, please let me know. Any suggestions on Pokemon, sets, or anything else I've talked about would be most appreciated.
Thanks!
After playing around with a bunch of different teams and having middling success and really too much to choose from, I decided to make a rain dance team. Restrictions breed creativity, and having this focus has helped me immensely.
I'm going to start off with the pokemon I am happiest with, not my lead. Hopefully this will give a good indication of which roles are well filled in this team, and which aren't. After this I will probably give a few comments on how I play this team and the general issues I have noticed as a result.
Team at a glance:
Let's get started!
=========================
Rain Special Sweeper
Ludicolo (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 120 Atk/136 Spe/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Surf
- Energy Ball
- Ice Beam
- Focus Punch
Role: Special sweeper in the rain. It gets very good type coverage and is surprisingly powerful. It does really well later in the game when there are fewer possible switch-ins, which makes picking an attack that much easier. Excellent typing gives neutrality to grass and electricity. 4x water resist can be useful for other water-types trying to take advantage of the rain.
Moves: Surf in the rain is just powerful. Energy Ball for STAB to hit water-types. I have elected not to use Grass Knot because of Vaporeon, but honestly I don't have enough experience to know which is the better-suited choice. Ice Beam covers grass-types and offers important type coverage (ie. dragons). Focus Punch is for Blissey (and Snorlax). It's difficult for me to predict the switch-ins regularly, but when FP works it can really dent Blissey, who otherwise walls Ludicolo.
Focus Punch is fairly new. I had tried rain dance for the fourth slot, but I never really had the chance to properly use it, and the duration without damp rock is disappointing.
EVs, Nature: Maximize SAtk. 136 Spe puts me at 210, enough to outrun all Scarf Heatran in the rain. This allows me to put the rest in Atk to get more out of Focus Punch.
=========================
Rain Mixed Attacker
Kingdra (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk/16 Spe/240 SAtk
Lonely nature (+Atk, -Def)
- Waterfall
- Hydro Pump
- Draco Meteor
- Outrage
Role: I usually use him earlier on. Waterfall is the main choice here for its solid, dependable damage, doing well in particular to any Blissey expecting a special attacking set and forcing it back out with a 2HKO. This will tend to bring in the appropriate physical wall or water resistance that they have. Kingdra's excellent typing also gives is grass and electric neutrality. 4x fire resist means he can deal with fire-types when the rain runs out.
Moves: Kingdra doesn't have much to choose from. Waterfall is the main attack, as explained above. Hydro Pump and Draco meteor for powerful special attacks against anything expecting physical attacks. Outrage for the last slot to give another powerful STAB physical attack. The issue I have with these choices is that the dragon-type moves will cripple Kingdra, either by reducing its SAtk or locking itself into Outrage. So, the mere existence of water resists puts me in a bit of a tough situation. Outrage does let me deal with Latias very easily, though.
EVs, Nature: From the Smogon set: enough speed to outrun Scarftran. Maximize attack (for waterfall) and special attack thereafter. I ran Lonely after noticing Kingdra was getting mostly special attacks aimed at it, but I'm not dead set on it.
=========================
Rain Support Attacker
Rotom-W @ Damp Rock
Ability: Leviate
EVs: 252 Hp/4 Def/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Rain Dance
- Hydro Pump
- Shadow Ball
- Thunder
Role: The three immunities it possesses allow for switch-in opportunities. He can set up 8-turn rain for the swift swimmers, but also use it to great effect. Hydro pump gets boosted and Thunder gains perfect accuracy. Deals with water types as well as opposing electric types. I have been pleasantly surprised with its offensive ability, and end up going on the offense with it more often than I imagined I would.
Moves: Rain dance for support is the core of this set. STAB Thunder is one of the main draws of Rotom-W, bringing great power and paralysis rate and is another way besides swift swim in which I can abuse the rain. Hydro pump, already very powerful, gets boosted even further in the rain, and can deal well with opposing electrics trying to come in on a Thunder. Shadow Ball is there for STAB and to get more coverage that my team fairly sorely lacks. It's my primary option against grasses, and thankfully is super-effective against Celebi.
EVs, Nature: 252 HP to help out that horrible base 50 and let it survive longer. I put the rest in SAtk, because I have found Rotom to be fairly slow on average. But I don't know enough about what I 'need' to outrun, resting at 208 Speed at the moment. Should I run more (rather, any) speed EVs at the expense of SAtk?
=========================
I'm very happy with these three so far. They all perform their jobs quite well. I have tried to get a good mix of physical and special attacks, but Rotom just gets walled by Blissey, period. Otherwise, I have outs, but the prediction is difficult. More on this after the rest of my team.
=========================
Rain, Support
Jirachi @ Damp Rock
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Hp/72 Def/32 Spe/80 SAtk/72 SDef
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Rain Dance
- Thunder
- Wish
- U-Turn
Role: Jirachi is fairly bulky and can set up rain dance numerous times. Rain removes the fire weakness and gives Thunder perfect accuracy for the 60% paralysis chance. Unlike Rotom-W, though, I never find myself wanting to stay in with Jirachi. Wish is excellent support for the Life Orb sweepers.
Moves: Rain dance for support is the core of this set, like Rotom. Thunder gives an attack that might catch a super-effective attack for those not expecting it, and the paralysis can cripple many things. I'm not sure how important this is, though, as for the most part I never get the chance to paralyze anything that I'd really want to (like Scarfers). Wish is something else that on paper looked quite good. When I pull it off successfully it's amazing, but I don't get to do so as often as I'd like - Jirachi is often busy trying to re-start the rain and doesn't get a good chance to get in a Wish as well. U-turn is to scout switches, but I'll have more to say about U-turn at the end.
EVs, Nature: I will admit that I am not very good with EVs. These are - actually, I don't remember where these are from. HP for sturdiness, but I'm not sure what I'm doing in specific with what's left. Suggestions are most welcome!
=========================
Rain Lead
Azelf @ Damp Rock
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Hp/4 Atk/252 Spe
Jolly nature (+Spe, -SAtk)
- Rain Dance
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion
- U-Turn
Role: Start the battle by getting out rain and/or Stealth Rock. Explode when appropriate at low health, or u-turn to facilitate switches. Azelf is fast and can usually do the first two things, but I have found his staying power a little lacking. Actually, extremely lacking, especially since Explosion seems too telegraphed to use with confidence.
Moves: RD is required if neither of my swift swimmers know it. SR is good to have on a lead for such an offense-oriented team like this, since I don't have it elsewhere. See my thoughts on U-turn at the bottom. Explosion is good on paper, but very predictable, so I end up usually U-turning to see them bring out a ghost type. If he survives to late game, Explosion can open up a huge hole in the opposing team, but it doesn't happen that often in my experience.
EVs, Nature: Maximize speed as much as possible to get rain and SR out quickly. After that I maximized HP so it can sort of take two hits if it's lucky, which is important without focus sash.
=========================
Rain Support
Scizor @ Damp Rock
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Hp/16 Atk/240 SDef
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Rain Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Roost
- U-Turn
Role: RaikouLover's bulky rain Scizor. Set up rain dance, roost off damage, take hits to U-turn out and get something in safely and deal a fair bit of damage at the same time. Bullet punch is my only priority move and from what I can tell is one of the main reasons Scizor is such a beast in general. In the rain, Scizor's horrible fire weakness is halved. I used to have a CB Dugtrio here (with Rain Dance shifted to Ludicolo).
Moves: Mostly talked about above. Rain dance is needed for support, and Bullet Punch for a powerful priority attack in case it's needed. Roost and U-turn are support options, but sometimes I wonder if a more offensive SD set would work well; besides Rain Dance I have no set-up moves and could use another dimension to my attack.
EVs, Nature: From RaikouLover's set. Maximize HP to take hits. 16 Atk EVs for the "bonus point" (hmm, I see it in Shoddy but I've never read about this. Could someone explain?). The rest in SDef to take special hits better.
=========================
Things I Have Noticed / Wondered about:
Switch-ins: Generally, once I set up rain, I want to get in a swift swimmer, or possibly Rotom-W. Since Ludicolo generally serves best at the end of a match, this basically involves switching Kingdra in. This leaves me with few options, which is obviously a bad thing, especially since most battles seem to involve a lot of switching.
U-turn: This ties in with switching in. U-turn is often touted as a great way for scouting an opponent's switch. But in the rain, I want my swift swimmers out anyway, so there's not a whole lot I can do with this information, especially as they can just switch again to their bulky grass/water/wall if I do get a good switch. I need to keep the swift swimmers in and do their job while there's rain - if I don't take advantage of the rain, this team won't stand a chance. Also, quick U-turns often just amount to my swift swimmers taking an attack. Even if it's neutral, that one extra attack combined with Life Orb recoil takes its toll quickly. It seems slower speeds on U-turners is better to keep my sweepers as safe as possible while switching. And, except on Scizor (and sometimes Azelf), U-turn is not doing a whole lot of damage. Am I playing the switch-ins poorly? Do I need another swift swimmer in order to increase my options while U-turning in the rain? Who should take the U-turn hit?
Choice Scarf: These are annoying, as it seems the best way to deal with these things is through switching, not something I want to be doing in the rain. Suggestions?
Status: Toxic is annoying if I'm facing a wall. If I'm sweeping it adds up quickly with Life Orb damage, but the damage I output seems to make it worth it. Paralysis can destroy the helpful effects of Swift Swim. Burn is annoying, but thankfully not seen very often at the same time as Blissey. I have two toxic immunes, but no burn immunes, no Thunder Wave immmunes, and nothing to absorb sleep either. Would Aromatherapy be worthwhile?
Rain stops: Damp Rock lets the rain last a decent while. But, it stops eventually. Should I be attacking the last turn of the rain, or be switching out to a rain dance supporter, so they can immediately restore the rain the turn after it stops? Both Scizor and Jirachi are fire-weak, which really lets fire-type Pokemon run rampant while I am scrambling to get the rain back up. This sort of conflicts with U-turn, which wants (as far as I see) a lower speed run, but for these two Rain Dance can often act as a pseudo-Light Screen, so I really want to go first against fire-type attacks.
Ninjask/General BPing: Is a serious issue. I want Taunt or Roar somewhere. But ... where?
=========================
Aside from the above issues, I find this to be effective at dealing with other offensive teams so long as they don't outspeed me - Agility can be an issue. I've tried to up the wallbreaking ability of my sweepers, but incorrect prediction can have serious consequences with Focus Punch, Outrage or Draco Meteor. For example, Suicine can be handled fairly easily if you get off a Draco Meteor as it switches in, especially with SR support. But, if not, you can find yourself wearing away your life with resisted LO attacks, or switching and wasting the rain. Any advice on this?
Well, there you have it. I am not familiar with things well enough to be able to look and see which common sets are threats, so if you see something, please let me know. Any suggestions on Pokemon, sets, or anything else I've talked about would be most appreciated.
Thanks!
