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NU Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Stagnant
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- On the physical attacking side, Rhydon literally 2HKOs the entire metagame. The top 10 highest Def NU Pokémon are all weak to one of EQ, SE or Megahorn. LO Rock Polish is bound to do some damage.
Heh, rhydon also 2hko's nearly everything in UU (though it needs CB). Will a NU ladder be implemented? I'm looking forward to trying out NU.
Heh, rhydon also 2hko's nearly everything in UU (though it needs CB). Will a NU ladder be implemented? I'm looking forward to trying out NU.
A NU ladder will be implemented most likely, but they want us to stop asking. I don't think it'll be any time soon.
I'm still in shock that they evolved Rhydon for DP. With all the other useless piles of bull that still exist, and they decide to evolve a Pokemon that has been OU in the previous 3 generations...
When I faced that, it was tough to switch in to, but its main drawback is that it's really slow. Base 65 can be EVed to outspeed some minimum speed walls, but it's not exactly difficult to revenge-kill with that awful Defense/HP.
I'm curious, how does it fare against Reflect Hypno? I know Hypno flat-out wins if it switches in on Superpower or Quick Attack, but Fire Blast or Return aren't really that safe of switch-ins.
My personal favorite mixed attacker is Sharpedo. I run the analysis set but I alternate between Aqua Jet and Taunt in the second slot instead of Earthquake or HP Grass.
Edit: By the way, has anyone made an IRC server for NU discussion?
I played four or five matches earlier, and I must say, it is a very nice break from OU. Put aside the fact that seeing new pokémon in a battle is refreshing, the thrill of the unknown is great.
However, it still seems like people are afraid to venture very far out from certain selections (such as Tangrowth, Meganium, Hypno, and Venomoth). Stealth Rock is also very important in NU, considering the selection of pokémon. Rhydon also holds true to being difficult to handle after a Rock Polish.
My team works very nicely, much better than expected, but I am still having trouble figuring out what to use as a lead. So far I have tried a Taunting Haunter @ Focus Sash and a ScarfHaunter.
However, it still seems like people are afraid to venture very far out from certain selections (such as Tangrowth, Meganium, Hypno, and Venomoth). Stealth Rock is also very important in NU, considering the selection of pokémon. Rhydon also holds true to being difficult to handle after a Rock Polish.
My team works very nicely, much better than expected, but I am still having trouble figuring out what to use as a lead. So far I have tried a Taunting Haunter @ Focus Sash and a ScarfHaunter.
In my few UU battles, I haven't gotten a chance to properly set up SRock yet. Maybe its due to my pick of an SRocker (Solrock), but still.
Also, Fake Out/UTurn/Bite/Taunt Persian is easily my MVP. Screws over so much it ain't funny, but should NEVER carry Life Orb. Thats just a silly mistake on Fake Outers.
Also, Fake Out/UTurn/Bite/Taunt Persian is easily my MVP. Screws over so much it ain't funny, but should NEVER carry Life Orb. Thats just a silly mistake on Fake Outers.
Not recommended IMO, as Sneasel eats it for breakfast and you have absolutely no chance of getting out alive.
Anyway, from the handful of battles I've had so far, a variation on my UU Taunt team has been working out quite well. I only needed to replace two Pokemon; Sneasel is reliable enough as a lead over Electrode, whilst Ursaring is doing OK over Drapion, although the residual damage sometimes makes me wish there was a Paralysis Orb available as well.
I've got Taunt Bibarel as my lead, stops any 1st turn Baton Pass attempts with Unaware, can Taunt any slower leads to stop status and that (he has base 71 speed which is pretty good for a big beaver). He can set up SR, which is still as useful as ever in this metagame, like the rest. He also gets Super Fang, which halves the Hp of any 'mon (besides Ghosts) meaning any Physical walls that switch in are down to at least 50% as soon as the switch. Waterfall in the last slot for STAB etc.
I think once the tier gets some stability and people find what works well we'll have a better metagame, but at the minute it's a load of people trying out theorymon, good-on-paper sets.
I haven't seen any Rhydon myself. Despite all the Tangrowth love, I haven't found it too difficult personally, as I have Specseggutor to switch in on Leech Seed or Power Whip and OHKO it with Psychic or HP [Fire]. Exeggutor also gets Chlorophyll and outspeeds Tangrowth by 5 base points, so any taking advantage of the Sunlight are also beaten.
Sub + CM Drifblim is my cleaner of choice, he's amazing :)
I think once the tier gets some stability and people find what works well we'll have a better metagame, but at the minute it's a load of people trying out theorymon, good-on-paper sets.
I haven't seen any Rhydon myself. Despite all the Tangrowth love, I haven't found it too difficult personally, as I have Specseggutor to switch in on Leech Seed or Power Whip and OHKO it with Psychic or HP [Fire]. Exeggutor also gets Chlorophyll and outspeeds Tangrowth by 5 base points, so any taking advantage of the Sunlight are also beaten.
Sub + CM Drifblim is my cleaner of choice, he's amazing :)
Been trying a few UU battles with an NU team. Haven't fared very well just yet but I'm managing to work out the structure.
Dusclops is invaluable. I wouldn't be surprised if it gets bumped up to UU because it's a pretty mean contender, especially with Pain Split and Leftovers. It can stay against most things if they don't get lucky on it.
Relicanth seems pretty solid, but with Grass running amok in this Metagame it may have some solid counters. RestTalk works wonders if played correctly, and provided it doesn't miss a shitload, Head Smash is great. I've 2HKO'd some weird things with a few good Head Smashes.
Mawile is pretty solid. While it can't take a whole lot of hits, if you set it up properly it can 2HKO a couple things, and may be an asset, provided it can find a way to eat an EQ from Rhydon.
Chimecho is a decent supporter and may find some use as a back-up Cleric if we don't see Chansey. It can also play as a mini-Hypno, but is pretty easily outclassed in that department. However, I've found that Toxic is still everywhere and fast Hypnosis from Purugly or just Hypnosis in general from Persian and whatnot is the balls. Having a Cleric could do some good. I switched it out of one of my teams for a Spinner and promptly missed it.
Ryhorn is pretty much godly if you can throw it in to Sweep. That gets sorta hard though. I've tried a Choice set for it and I'm not that keen on it (though I sorta hate Choice in general), but Life Orb -may- work since it has decent defenses and can stay for a while when not facing a Tangrowth or something that can outspeed it.
Personally, I don't like Hypno. I've never been able to solidly switch in with it and I just don't see it as much of a supporter. I suppose I can see its worth but I never really got a good chance to use it.
I'm considering popping something Anti-Ghost in because Ghosts are pretty threatening here. Suggestions?
Dusclops is invaluable. I wouldn't be surprised if it gets bumped up to UU because it's a pretty mean contender, especially with Pain Split and Leftovers. It can stay against most things if they don't get lucky on it.
Relicanth seems pretty solid, but with Grass running amok in this Metagame it may have some solid counters. RestTalk works wonders if played correctly, and provided it doesn't miss a shitload, Head Smash is great. I've 2HKO'd some weird things with a few good Head Smashes.
Mawile is pretty solid. While it can't take a whole lot of hits, if you set it up properly it can 2HKO a couple things, and may be an asset, provided it can find a way to eat an EQ from Rhydon.
Chimecho is a decent supporter and may find some use as a back-up Cleric if we don't see Chansey. It can also play as a mini-Hypno, but is pretty easily outclassed in that department. However, I've found that Toxic is still everywhere and fast Hypnosis from Purugly or just Hypnosis in general from Persian and whatnot is the balls. Having a Cleric could do some good. I switched it out of one of my teams for a Spinner and promptly missed it.
Ryhorn is pretty much godly if you can throw it in to Sweep. That gets sorta hard though. I've tried a Choice set for it and I'm not that keen on it (though I sorta hate Choice in general), but Life Orb -may- work since it has decent defenses and can stay for a while when not facing a Tangrowth or something that can outspeed it.
Personally, I don't like Hypno. I've never been able to solidly switch in with it and I just don't see it as much of a supporter. I suppose I can see its worth but I never really got a good chance to use it.
I'm considering popping something Anti-Ghost in because Ghosts are pretty threatening here. Suggestions?
That's not how it works. If Dusclops proves too strong in NU then it gets bumped up to the NU equivalent of BL. It will only enter UU through sufficiently high usage there.
What are these threatening Ghosts you speak of? Anyway, if you need something that can switch in and Pursuit them, Sneasel, Skuntank, Slaking and Munchlax make decent choices, although they all have their flaws and you have to watch out for Will-o-wisp. The only NU Pursuiter I can think of that absorbs status is Raticate, but there may be others.
>That's not how it works. If Dusclops proves too strong in NU then it gets bumped up to the NU equivalent of BL. It will only enter UU through sufficiently high usage there.
I get that. All I'm saying is that it has some merit and may be able to find decent use in UU.
Though from some more recent usage I've found that the set I'm running (basically Dusknoir lite) probably won't be as well received in UU as it's already having some issue with fellow walls and doesn't stall as effectively as it could. It still shows itself to be a pretty solid wall but I'm not sure if it's scary enough to force switches or powerful enough to get rid of threats. Toxic, maybe?
>What are these threatening Ghosts you speak of? Anyway, if you need something that can switch in and Pursuit them, Sneasel, Skuntank, Slaking and Munchlax make decent choices, although they all have their flaws and you have to watch out for Will-o-wisp. The only NU Pursuiter I can think of that absorbs status is Raticate, but there may be others.
Hm, I'll look into Raticate. I have been running Chimecho on most of my teams to Heal Bell away stuff like that but it's still rather frail and I have trouble setting up effective enough Wishes to keep her around when I really need her.
I get that. All I'm saying is that it has some merit and may be able to find decent use in UU.
Though from some more recent usage I've found that the set I'm running (basically Dusknoir lite) probably won't be as well received in UU as it's already having some issue with fellow walls and doesn't stall as effectively as it could. It still shows itself to be a pretty solid wall but I'm not sure if it's scary enough to force switches or powerful enough to get rid of threats. Toxic, maybe?
>What are these threatening Ghosts you speak of? Anyway, if you need something that can switch in and Pursuit them, Sneasel, Skuntank, Slaking and Munchlax make decent choices, although they all have their flaws and you have to watch out for Will-o-wisp. The only NU Pursuiter I can think of that absorbs status is Raticate, but there may be others.
Hm, I'll look into Raticate. I have been running Chimecho on most of my teams to Heal Bell away stuff like that but it's still rather frail and I have trouble setting up effective enough Wishes to keep her around when I really need her.
Dusclops probably would be UU if Spiritomb was still OU, or didn't exist at all, but anyway.
I wouldn't have expected Dusknoir's OU moveset to work for Dusclops in NU anyway. I mean, sure, Dusknoir is Dusclops with its stats a tiny bit higher (they call that an evolution?), but they're in completely different environments, so it'll be necessary to take different approaches. Dusknoir's OU set may be a good place to start, but you may have different Pokemon to outspeed, and all that sort of stuff. Then there's the fact that NU is dominated by Rock and Grass types, rather than Steel and Dragon types (this is probably because Rock and Grass are bad types, so they haven't made it into the higher tiers, and now they're left behind, and have higher stats than everything else, if you get my gist).
Meh I'm really not liking NU very much, the majority of walls either have bad stats or bad typing, and there are so many good sweepers than can wreck your team unless you have a specialized counter for them. Not to mention that Stealth Rock is even more annoying than it is in OU since there are so many rock-weaknesses in this tier.
Until bans stat being handed out I think I'm going to stay away from this tier, because I'm getting pissed off constantly by gimmick sweeper teams
Until bans stat being handed out I think I'm going to stay away from this tier, because I'm getting pissed off constantly by gimmick sweeper teams
I tried going for a BoltBeam-style punch duo and found that it was a bit more practical but with some of the corners its gotten stuck in, I'm tempted to go for Shadow Punch or something so I'm not dead in the water against fellow Ghosts.
Is it just me or is it even harder to effectively switch in Spinners in this tier? I already had a hard time getting my Donphan on the field in OU and even Cloyster has trouble staying around. Has anyone found a more effective Spinner or am I going to have to settle for Cloyster/Sandslash?
Considering Rock Polish Armaldo as a Rhydon replacement. While it is harder to get in, with its SR weak and lower physical defense, its survivability is much higher, especially when it comes to priority attacks (jet, shard, mach punch), water and grass attacks from Blastoise/Meganium, and special attacks in general. Its higher Speed makes up for its lower Attack since it can afford to go Adamant and not be outsped by Floatzel (who wouldn't OHKO it anyway). It loses EQ STAB, which is probably the biggest downside, but its 120 BP Bug move is more accurate than Rhydon's.
So far I've only played one game with it, but it looks like it has potential. It does allow me to fit Sandslash on my team for SR + Spinning without having redundant typing.
Jerichi: Armaldo can also spin + SR, though I haven't tested its spinning ability.
So far I've only played one game with it, but it looks like it has potential. It does allow me to fit Sandslash on my team for SR + Spinning without having redundant typing.
Jerichi: Armaldo can also spin + SR, though I haven't tested its spinning ability.
Torkoal isn't a bad spinner, as it casn come in on the common grass types. It also has that really nice Def stat to work with, and SR
Well for pure reliability there's Hitmonchan who can do the same Foresight + Rapid Spin technique as Hitmontop, albeit with less defense and inferior traits. He does have a little more Attack and Speed to make up for it somewhat though.
Come to think of it, Hitmonchan and Machoke are the only Fighters left with anything that could even be considered as decent bulk. With the Steel shortage too, it's no wonder that Rock types are so popular in this environment. For anybody who had doubts as to how influential Stealth Rock is on the metagame as a whole...
I've only played a few UU matches, but I'm already in love with it. It's a nice change of pace from OU.
Tauros is an awesome pokemon in general. His nice attack, awesome speed, nautral studryness and intimidate make him an excellent cleaner or Starting pokemon. So far, Tangrowth has been really fun to use. He takes hits with ease and can through status around like a madman. Golem's also been nice. I've been using Rock Tomb as a sort of Pseudo Support to slow down likely switch ins. Explosion is also a nice asset for him.
I'm really enjoying NU so far.
Tauros is an awesome pokemon in general. His nice attack, awesome speed, nautral studryness and intimidate make him an excellent cleaner or Starting pokemon. So far, Tangrowth has been really fun to use. He takes hits with ease and can through status around like a madman. Golem's also been nice. I've been using Rock Tomb as a sort of Pseudo Support to slow down likely switch ins. Explosion is also a nice asset for him.
I'm really enjoying NU so far.
Regigigas is a huge threat with proper support. Using Sub + Stockpile Drifblim, you can easily pass him a bulky sub with defense boosts, allowing him to stall for 5 turns and then begin to sweep. Having him use substitite himself really helps.
Taunt and Roar/Whirlwind/Haze is extremely useful, to be succesful in this metagame. There are menacing stat-up sweepers and baton passers left and right, and they can sweep your team at a moment's notice.
There aren't many really good walls either. Shuckle's there, but he can't do much. Sandslash is a good spinner, but he easily dies to even weaker special attacks. Regice of course is a good special wall, but its just horrible set up bait. Articuno is works surprisingly well, if it wasn't for its horrible typing, I'd say its one of the best walls in NU. Tangrowth is another one of the better walls too. Mantine can't do much besides take a beating from special attackers, other then toxic and haze. Gastrodon is pretty good too, as long as it avoids grass attacks. These are the only walls I've used/seen in action however.
Bottom line, walls are easily broken, and sweeps are hard to stop.
Also, SR is hardly ever set up in the matches I've been in. If anything, SR is more important in this metagame then any other, and has the potential to do the most damage here. There are so many bugs/fliers/fires/ice types, its ridiculous. Alternativly, there are less ghosts to stop rapid spin, so it sort of evens out.
Taunt and Roar/Whirlwind/Haze is extremely useful, to be succesful in this metagame. There are menacing stat-up sweepers and baton passers left and right, and they can sweep your team at a moment's notice.
There aren't many really good walls either. Shuckle's there, but he can't do much. Sandslash is a good spinner, but he easily dies to even weaker special attacks. Regice of course is a good special wall, but its just horrible set up bait. Articuno is works surprisingly well, if it wasn't for its horrible typing, I'd say its one of the best walls in NU. Tangrowth is another one of the better walls too. Mantine can't do much besides take a beating from special attackers, other then toxic and haze. Gastrodon is pretty good too, as long as it avoids grass attacks. These are the only walls I've used/seen in action however.
Bottom line, walls are easily broken, and sweeps are hard to stop.
Also, SR is hardly ever set up in the matches I've been in. If anything, SR is more important in this metagame then any other, and has the potential to do the most damage here. There are so many bugs/fliers/fires/ice types, its ridiculous. Alternativly, there are less ghosts to stop rapid spin, so it sort of evens out.
Yeah, there are many Stealth Rock-weak Pokemon in NU, but that's sort of the reason why they're NU in the first place. So now, we have Pokemon with good stats, but bad types, and Pokemon with good types, but bad stats. I mean, the best types (Dragon, Steel, Ghost) don't have very good Pokemon representing them here, because they all got into the higher tiers.
That's why they're in RU, instead of UU or even OU.
Edit 2: SHUCKLE MAN beat me to it.
Edit: Or even Uber, in Regigigas's case (but that's ability).
Gligar works well as a physical wall for me. This stops many things with Knock Off (removing Rhydons Choice Band is great). The ground and electric immunity is good to have. It is good to use this with a water pokemon in the team like Lapras and Slowking. Stealth Rock is one of his support moves.
Well, most Pokemon are pretty beastly with 4 appropriate stat boosts passed to them, but yes, Ursaring especially, due to the fact that it can't be statused with a Flame Orb.
And yet the status is usally Ursaring's downfall. I've tried CB Ursaring, and I think it's better since status is pretty easy to telegraph and It won't die from paralysis
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