As I said on the first page please do NOT Theorymon. Use NU unrated matching for battles before judging anything about anything.
Edit:
This is thread is for NU discussion please do not spam up this thread and get it locked.
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NU Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Stagnant
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As I said on the first page please do NOT Theorymon. Use NU unrated matching for battles before judging anything about anything.
Edit:
This is thread is for NU discussion please do not spam up this thread and get it locked.
Some extremely early observations:
- Scarf Venomoth is a great asset. It can be used as a sleeper or u-turn scouting lead, and then brought back in later to sweep. All it needs is Bug Buzz for coverage - with Tinted Lens, the only things that resist it are Drifblim and Soundproof Pokémon. It also cuts through the premier special wall of NU right now...
- Hypno, which is as great a Wish passer and general support poke as it was in old UU. Might be the NU Blissey.
- On the physical attacking side, Rhydon literally 2HKOs the entire metagame. The top 10 highest Def NU Pokémon are all weak to one of EQ, SE or Megahorn. LO Rock Polish is bound to do some damage.
- Ursaring packs similar power, although Quick Feet just isn't fast enough and Toxic Orb really limits its survivability. It's hard to find time to SD as well.
- The fastest SR is Gligar at base 95. I've seen few SR leads, no suicide leads, and less SR than other metagames in general. Of course this is just observation and might (will probably) change.
- Generally seems like a very offensive metagame. Walls just aren't as effective at stopping the poweful hits on their side of the spectrum, and many have glaring x4 weaknesses.
- Haven't seen too much weather yet but it was pretty effective where I did see it. Stallrein is hard to break without Clefable, and Glaceon hits like an iceberg.
- Baton Passing is more effective than ever. Everything down here learns it, and I haven't seen any phazers at all yet. I used Hypno to pass Nasty Plots to Venomoth and Glaceon and it led to a few sweeps. Speed is hard to pass, but Atk and SpA have some good, bulky passers.
- Linoone is surprisingly hard to use and almost always dead weight. I could not get off a good sweep with it. Perhaps with all the hype people are preparing for it more; perhaps it is due to the lack of a good setup Pokémon like Uxie in UU. Linoone performs far better in UU than in NU.
- Very few Fighting, Fire, and Steel types are being used. Ice is not such a bad type to be in NU, and Ice-types are fairly common so far.
- Meganium is the best double screener. Hypno can pull it off too, though I haven't tried it.
- NU is fast-paced, offense-oriented and very fun. But then again, so was nUU when it began.
- Scarf Venomoth is a great asset. It can be used as a sleeper or u-turn scouting lead, and then brought back in later to sweep. All it needs is Bug Buzz for coverage - with Tinted Lens, the only things that resist it are Drifblim and Soundproof Pokémon. It also cuts through the premier special wall of NU right now...
- Hypno, which is as great a Wish passer and general support poke as it was in old UU. Might be the NU Blissey.
- On the physical attacking side, Rhydon literally 2HKOs the entire metagame. The top 10 highest Def NU Pokémon are all weak to one of EQ, SE or Megahorn. LO Rock Polish is bound to do some damage.
- Ursaring packs similar power, although Quick Feet just isn't fast enough and Toxic Orb really limits its survivability. It's hard to find time to SD as well.
- The fastest SR is Gligar at base 95. I've seen few SR leads, no suicide leads, and less SR than other metagames in general. Of course this is just observation and might (will probably) change.
- Generally seems like a very offensive metagame. Walls just aren't as effective at stopping the poweful hits on their side of the spectrum, and many have glaring x4 weaknesses.
- Haven't seen too much weather yet but it was pretty effective where I did see it. Stallrein is hard to break without Clefable, and Glaceon hits like an iceberg.
- Baton Passing is more effective than ever. Everything down here learns it, and I haven't seen any phazers at all yet. I used Hypno to pass Nasty Plots to Venomoth and Glaceon and it led to a few sweeps. Speed is hard to pass, but Atk and SpA have some good, bulky passers.
- Linoone is surprisingly hard to use and almost always dead weight. I could not get off a good sweep with it. Perhaps with all the hype people are preparing for it more; perhaps it is due to the lack of a good setup Pokémon like Uxie in UU. Linoone performs far better in UU than in NU.
- Very few Fighting, Fire, and Steel types are being used. Ice is not such a bad type to be in NU, and Ice-types are fairly common so far.
- Meganium is the best double screener. Hypno can pull it off too, though I haven't tried it.
- NU is fast-paced, offense-oriented and very fun. But then again, so was nUU when it began.
If you're talking about Hypno being the premier special wall of NU, I don't believe that. Regice is far superior to Hypno in terms of special walling, though I suppose that the need for Rest and the SR weakness give a bit of a reason to use Hypno. The Rest-talking does help Regice a lot if it gets Toxiced though, something the screws Hypno since it has to get rid of Insomnia if it wants Rest.
Perhaps "premier" wasn't the right word. Hypno seems to be the most ubiquitous special defensive threat thusfar, with his multitude of support options including Wish, fewer weaknesses, and the points you mentioned (no SR weak and no need for Rest).
I've seen a few wall Articunos attempted, although I don't have to mention SR weak holds it back.
I've seen a few wall Articunos attempted, although I don't have to mention SR weak holds it back.
I wonder if Munchlax can now be more viable as a special wall / tank in NU? Maybe it'll still have to wait another tier down, but it's worth considering as it has Thick Fat and Normal typing which is ideal for taking special hits, and its Attack is still usable at base 85. That weak physical Defense could probably be really preyed upon though, and there's also the fact that it's so slow that most Pokemon will still outrun it even after Paralysis. Perhaps Body Slam would no longer be worth it.
Anyone tried it out yet? If not I might do so when I get the chance to start battling.
Anyone tried it out yet? If not I might do so when I get the chance to start battling.
I'd THINK Grumpig would outdo Munchlax. In fact, I'm wondering why there's not more love for the piggy. Ofcourse, this is a bit of in theory here, but it seems that way to me. On the other hand, Bug attacks do seem to be a lot more viable around these parts, meaning Grumpig would get hit hard by those coming from the likes of Vespiquen, Venomoth and pals, same with Hypno. Still, when it comes to walling with thick fat, I'm guessing Grumpig will have a better all-around job as Munchlax would.
In addition to Munchlax not being that great, there's also Lickilicky, which has a much better movepool, much better stats, and is generally better in every way than Munchlax.
There's also Regigigas whose got base 110 HP, and 110 in both defenses. Not very shabby if you ask me.
It also has no protect, rest, roar, whirlwind, sr =/
Not barely enough nNU players right now. I keep getting paired to UU teams.
Quick first impressions:
Persian is evil. Its basically Ambipom Lite.
Articuno can wall stuff like no other, mimicing Toxistall Moltress perfectly.
Zangoose lacks either speed or firepower. Shame.
Same for Golduck, really. Yeah he has a nifty ability but its still nothing special.
Yeah, some VERY quick first impressions. Also, aside from Leafeon, I can't really find any somewhat solid physically defensive pokes who dont come with a slewload of heavy weaknesses.
Quick first impressions:
Persian is evil. Its basically Ambipom Lite.
Articuno can wall stuff like no other, mimicing Toxistall Moltress perfectly.
Zangoose lacks either speed or firepower. Shame.
Same for Golduck, really. Yeah he has a nifty ability but its still nothing special.
Yeah, some VERY quick first impressions. Also, aside from Leafeon, I can't really find any somewhat solid physically defensive pokes who dont come with a slewload of heavy weaknesses.
Articuno is wayyyy too strong to be considered in NU, in my opinion. If Moltres wasn't better in that it gets Fire STAB as opposed to Ice STAB, Articuno would probably have its spot in UU right now, since they're basically the same Pokemon role-wise with slight differences. Otherwise, there aren't a whole lot of real "walls" I would consider physically, except for maybe...Relicanth, Hypno, Rhydon, a few others that probably could qualify for UU if they got more usage. But brb, breaking the UU metagame with Yanmega.
After 6 or so battles, a few quick observations:
- Specs Entei is really, really powerful. It has the same Base Speed as Typhlosion with only ~11% less SpA. Meanwhile, no Chansey (I think - I haven't seen one at least) or Milotic. Basically, all it needs are Fire attacks to damage. I use Eruption/Flamethrower/Fire Blast/HP Ground, with HP Ground hitting Rock-types and Fire-types.
- Rock-types are capable of causing some serious harm, and Rock Polish ones are very good at sweeping. Particularly Rhydon because it can take out a slightly weakened Tangrowth with Megahorn. The other major one is Relicanth, who is more deadly imo because it handles priority attacks better, being only neutral to Bullet Punch/Aqua Jet, and can set up on choiced Fire and Ice attacks, though the lack of Thunder Wave immunity isn't as nice.
- There are so many deadly set-up sweepers in NU that I'm very reluctant to use any Choiced Pokemon. Entei is the one exception because only Relicanth and Flash Fire sweepers can really take a Specsed Fire attack to set up. Everything else, as stated, is hit really hard.
- Specs Entei is really, really powerful. It has the same Base Speed as Typhlosion with only ~11% less SpA. Meanwhile, no Chansey (I think - I haven't seen one at least) or Milotic. Basically, all it needs are Fire attacks to damage. I use Eruption/Flamethrower/Fire Blast/HP Ground, with HP Ground hitting Rock-types and Fire-types.
- Rock-types are capable of causing some serious harm, and Rock Polish ones are very good at sweeping. Particularly Rhydon because it can take out a slightly weakened Tangrowth with Megahorn. The other major one is Relicanth, who is more deadly imo because it handles priority attacks better, being only neutral to Bullet Punch/Aqua Jet, and can set up on choiced Fire and Ice attacks, though the lack of Thunder Wave immunity isn't as nice.
- There are so many deadly set-up sweepers in NU that I'm very reluctant to use any Choiced Pokemon. Entei is the one exception because only Relicanth and Flash Fire sweepers can really take a Specsed Fire attack to set up. Everything else, as stated, is hit really hard.
I actually look forword to electabuzz. Great speed and good speciel attack, plus average attack and a killer offensive movepool. Psychic, fire punch, cross chop, focus punch, thunderbolt, hidden power ice/grass...he sure makes up for lack of raw power with the ability to get so many super effective hits
Sneasel is a good lead in NU.
Knock Off Marowaks Thick Club is a bonus if it switches in. Knock Off screws many other things too.
Taunt is good for pokemons like Girafarig.
Fake Out is great. Sneasel speed ties with Persian.
I use a physical move in the last slot. Ice Punch, Night Slash, Ice Shard or Brick Break.
It also survives an U-turn from Persian.
Knock Off Marowaks Thick Club is a bonus if it switches in. Knock Off screws many other things too.
Taunt is good for pokemons like Girafarig.
Fake Out is great. Sneasel speed ties with Persian.
I use a physical move in the last slot. Ice Punch, Night Slash, Ice Shard or Brick Break.
It also survives an U-turn from Persian.
Erm... Sneasel is good... but unless it has like 3 agilities or in Trick Room (the best way to do it IMO), Marowak's not going to be switching in to Sneasel as it will fear 2 repetitive Ice Punches/Ice Shards. Fire Punch is going to hurt though, thick club or not.
Sneasel is a good Tauntet however, and Dark and Ice are pretty nice attacks to have when backed by Brick Break. Floatzel may be of some competition however...
Unrated I guess.
but tangrice are both weak to fire, which is not good with all of these enteis running around. i find thick fat grumpig works decently well with tangrowth, as bug attacks are usually not as strong as fire
Since i'm obsessed with Wallbreaking Mixed attackers, I made my own Mix Priority Flareon set, quite similar to my Blaziken set:
Flareon (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 120 Atk/136 Spd/252 SAtk
Lonely nature (+Atk, -Def)
- Superpower
- Return
- Quick Attack / Hidden Power Grass
- Fire Blast
---
With base 130 Attack, Lonely nature boosted Flareon's attack high enough to 2HKO a good portion of the metagame because the increase is based on %. I maxed out SpA, and gave Flareon enough speed to outspeed some of the faster walls, (e.g. Grumpig, Sandslash etc.).
Quick Attack helps secure some KOs, but HP Grass is really helpful against all of the annoying ass Ground/Waters, and Relicanth who is not OHKOd by Superpower.
I use this on my hail "offensive" (Fuck Walrein, I wont use it) team, with 3 Fire Weak (Pinsir, Snover, Glaceon) to lure out some Fire Attacks to abuse Flash Fire with.
Flareon makes a great switch in to Regice as well, due to it's great SpD.
Comments?
P.S. This is especially effective against the above Combo with Tangrowth and Regice easily taken out by Fire Blast, and Camerupt OHKO'd with Superpower.
EDIT: Im also testing Magmar.
Flareon (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 120 Atk/136 Spd/252 SAtk
Lonely nature (+Atk, -Def)
- Superpower
- Return
- Quick Attack / Hidden Power Grass
- Fire Blast
---
With base 130 Attack, Lonely nature boosted Flareon's attack high enough to 2HKO a good portion of the metagame because the increase is based on %. I maxed out SpA, and gave Flareon enough speed to outspeed some of the faster walls, (e.g. Grumpig, Sandslash etc.).
Quick Attack helps secure some KOs, but HP Grass is really helpful against all of the annoying ass Ground/Waters, and Relicanth who is not OHKOd by Superpower.
I use this on my hail "offensive" (Fuck Walrein, I wont use it) team, with 3 Fire Weak (Pinsir, Snover, Glaceon) to lure out some Fire Attacks to abuse Flash Fire with.
Flareon makes a great switch in to Regice as well, due to it's great SpD.
Comments?
P.S. This is especially effective against the above Combo with Tangrowth and Regice easily taken out by Fire Blast, and Camerupt OHKO'd with Superpower.
EDIT: Im also testing Magmar.
I can't really decide what Dragon-type to use. We're stuck with Dragonair, Shelgon and Gabite, because Altaria went off and got popular in UU.
I know Gabite's play-style, having played with Garchomp before, however, Gabite will likely need different strategies considering that it doesn't have some of the highest stats in the tier like Garchomp did, and, it's in a completely different environment anyway. NU won't be dominated by Steels and Dragons like OU was, it's dominated by something else.
Talking about that, what types would we say are dominating NU at the moment. It's certainly not Dragon, because the Dragon-types are quite weak here. It's probably not Steel, because Aggron and Magneton aren't going to be as dominating as Heatran, Scizor, Metagross, Bronzong, Jirachi, Lucario and so on are they? Would everyone perhaps say Rock and Grass or something?
Shelgon and Dragonair are like nothing I've ever used before. I don't think I've ever even used a pure Dragon-type before.
I know Gabite's play-style, having played with Garchomp before, however, Gabite will likely need different strategies considering that it doesn't have some of the highest stats in the tier like Garchomp did, and, it's in a completely different environment anyway. NU won't be dominated by Steels and Dragons like OU was, it's dominated by something else.
Talking about that, what types would we say are dominating NU at the moment. It's certainly not Dragon, because the Dragon-types are quite weak here. It's probably not Steel, because Aggron and Magneton aren't going to be as dominating as Heatran, Scizor, Metagross, Bronzong, Jirachi, Lucario and so on are they? Would everyone perhaps say Rock and Grass or something?
Shelgon and Dragonair are like nothing I've ever used before. I don't think I've ever even used a pure Dragon-type before.
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