Pokemon Video Game Championships Team Rate

[Purimpopoie]

Hello. This is my first post on Smogon, and I would like to have my team rated. It's for Pokemon Video Game Championships. If you'd like to see the rules, they can be found here.

I plan on trying to compete at the nearest Regionals, and have been working on this team on Platinum recently. Once I finished it, I started practicing with it against randoms on PBR's WiFi Battle, but ended up finding no real challenges. After waiting for a few days on Platinum's GameFAQs Board, I got a battle. Here's the video number if you'd like to watch it: 67-49391-60681

If you'd like the short of it, I lost, and I lost to something I had forseen would be trouble for me: Trick Room. I thought for a while, and I decided that I would ask for some help. I understand that I might get chewed out a bit, or my plan might be called kinda stupid, but I take that risk, right?

Anyway, here we go:

Team at a Glance:

I suppose this is the best spot to put this, but the team was originally just the last four members (that is, just Garchomp, Cresselia, Scizor, and Heatran). After some kicking around ideas and checking out topics here and on GameFAQs, I decided to add Smeargle and Wobbuffet, who became the leads. If there seems to be some dis-unity among them because of that, there's its origin.

Anyway, now each by each:

Wobbuffet@ Leftovers
Ability: Shadow Tag
EVs:4HP/252Def/252Sp.Def
Nature: Calm
- Encore
- Mirror Coat
- Counter
- Safeguard

Wobbuffet leads less to attack and more to trap Smeargle's victims into the battle. It's important to note that I can switch out Smeargle, even when Wobbuffet's Shadow Tag is involved. Encore can be used on Fake Outs (since they have no reason to target Wobbuffet with it, he'll Encore them into the trap).

Smeargle@ Choice Scarf
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Speed/252HP/6 Def
Nature: Jolly
- Dark Void
- Sleep Talk
-
-

Smeargle leads to sleep both foes with Dark Void before switching out to someone to set up a sweep. Sleep Talk is there incase I lose a Speed Tie against another CSVoidgle, giving me one more shot at sleeping them while I'm "helpless". Of course, I'll have to switch out afterwards, anyway, due to the Scarf, but it's a small price to pay. That's why Smeargle knows only two moves, by the way: to make sure I get that Dark Void while sleeping. He's EV'd to take an Adamant Scizor LO Bullet Punch to the jaw and survive to throw out that Void. Obviously, if my opponent gets of Trick Room, Smeargle's goose is cooked.

Garchomp@ Yache Berry
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252ATK/252Speed/6HP
Nature: Jolly
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Protect

"Ye Olde Yachechomp".. can it be called that? In any case, Garchomp was the old lead, along with Cressellia. The plan back then was to Protect on the first turn if I suspected the foe had any Ice Moves (or Dragon) while Cressy set up the appropriate screen. Afterward, or if I didn't expect any Ice Moves, I set up my SD. Yache + Screen means Chomp will likely survive the incoming Ice Move and should be able to KO on the next with an appropriate move. Although, now that I think about it, a Weavile Lead could mess this up pretty badly. In any case, Garchomp now comes in on Sleeping Foes and sets up the Dance while they sleep and are unable to switch, due to Wobb. Then, I sweep, KOing Wobb in the process if need be.

Cresselia@ Light Clay
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252HP/180Def/76SpDef
Nature: Calm
- Ice Beam
- Protect
- Light Screen
- Reflect

Cressy was 'Chomp's former partner in crime, setting up a protective Screen for Chomp to assist in the set up. If I had a chance, I'd throw up the other screen as well. If I needed to start taking shots with Ice Beam, I'd do that, too. Obviously, Protect for Exploders or any other cases where I might need to avoid taking damage. Clay keeps my screens up for 8 rounds, which on PBR's Random Battles was usually longer than the battle itself took. These days, though, Cressy is usually left behind, not participating in the 4v4 matches.

Scizor@ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252ATK/224Speed/32HP
Nature: Adamant
- Protect
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Brick Break

My "Back-Up Garchomp", and the only one on the team with Priority moves. The idea is similar to that with Chomp, only Bullet Punch destroys types that Chomp may have troubles with. Even without SD, Bullet Punch can still pack a whallop against less sturdy foes. Protect helps scout for Fire Attacks that I may switch my last Pokemon in on. I'm not really sure why I chose Brick Break. I think I was tired and worried about Tyranitar, although he's not allowed at Regionals because he evolves at Level 55. In that light, I might want to take a different move in that place.

Heatran@ Shuca Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248HP/56SpAtk/204Speed
Nature: Modest
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

My Last Pokemon is the only one who relys on Special Attack, as well as the only one without Protect. EV'd to outrun lots of common Pokemon as well as be bulky with some of the fire power being the sacrifice. Hopefully comes in on a Heat Wave or something else determined to ruin Scizor for the Flash Fire boost. I went with Rest/Sleep talk because I just sort of assume that Heatran can survive an Explosion and Rest off the damage (although I haven't actually done calcs for it). Sleep Talk also helps against other foes trying to sleep my whole team, making him the only member able to fight under those conditions. It's usually a decision of "Heatran or Scizor" as to who sits on the bench with Cressy nowadays.

And that's my team. As I noted, I know I have a particular weakness to Trick Room, and am wondering what could be done to help that, strategically. "Nothing is sacred" would be a good way to put it: I'm not afraid to have to reraise a member or even replace them outright. Just don't ask me to do the impossible (get a new Heatran/Cresselia, etc) or to outright hack a member.

Thank you for reading this lengthy post, and I look forward to any and all feedback.

 

[Bippzy]

Before I rate can you please reduce the amount of members to 4 so that I know which pokemon you are actually using as you can only use 4 pokemon per battle.

As for the playing on PBR and getting no challenges, go on at like 10-12ish and play against japs who do have good teams.

 

[Purimpopoie]

Before I rate can you please reduce the amount of members to 4 so that I know which pokemon you are actually using as you can only use 4 pokemon per battle.

As for the playing on PBR and getting no challenges, go on at like 10-12ish and play against japs who do have good teams.

At the Tournament Proper, I'll be allowed to have 6 Pokemon, but only 4 per battle. With that in mind, I posted all 6 of them. If I had to choose four... Wobbuffet, Smeargle, Garchomp, and Heatran.

So I should play later..? If I didn't have an 8AM Class, I'd consider doing that tonight. I'll have to do that later.

Thank you.

 

[Voltron]

Well I think giving Smeargle 252 Def EVs instead of HP would be more beneficial since both Bullet Punch and Fake Out are physical. I would also recommend considering Salamence over Garchomp. Salamence has Intimidate as well as 5 higher base Attack. The only thing you'll be missing out on is 2 base speed which is only helpful for other Salamence and Garchomp and STAB Earthquake. I don't think you'll be wanting to use Earthquake a whole lot with only Cresselia immune and Heatran 4x weak. Also I wouldn't use Wobbuffet, Smeargle, and Cresselia all at the same time as your other pokemon will really be the only thing with any offense.

 

[Purimpopoie]

Well I think giving Smeargle 252 Def EVs instead of HP would be more beneficial since both Bullet Punch and Fake Out are physical. I would also recommend considering Salamence over Garchomp. Salamence has Intimidate as well as 5 higher base Attack. The only thing you'll be missing out on is 2 base speed which is only helpful for other Salamence and Garchomp and STAB Earthquake. I don't think you'll be wanting to use Earthquake a whole lot with only Cresselia immune and Heatran 4x weak. Also I wouldn't use Wobbuffet, Smeargle, and Cresselia all at the same time as your other pokemon will really be the only thing with any offense.

I think I'll take your recommendation on Smeargle, since the difference in damage is rather noticeable. Thank you very much.

Salamence over Garchomp is an interesting recommendation, especially when considering that Garchomp is the one considered "broken" in Standard. However, there is merit in Intimidating both opponents in Doubles. And I won't seem to miss the EQ STAB, since most of my team has to protect while it's going on.

I'm picturing a set that looks sorta like this:
Salamence@ Expert Belt/Muscle Band?
Jolly/Adamant
252Attack/252Speed/6HP
Protect
Dragon Claw
Crunch
Fire Fang

It's an attempt to run a purely physical set without DD. Crunch and Fire Fang were chosen for their ability to damage SE the two most popular Trick Roomers (or so I've heard): Dusknoir and Bronzong. Fire Fang has almost infamously low base power, though. Should I run a mixed set on it?

On the note of Heatran, I was thinking about Lava Plume. Obviously, I wouldn't want to use it unless Scizor/Salamence/Garchomp could Protect the same turn, but it hits everyone in the battle, otherwise, and can inflict some beneficail burns. But I always run the risk of not being able to do it, or possibly calling it during Sleep Talk at an inopertune time. Any thoughts on this?

And you didn't mention this, but what do you think about Brick Break on Scizor? Is there a better move I could use?

That lack of offense is usually what makes me pass on brining Cressy in, since Smeargle/Wobb take two spots. Although, I could try Smeargle without Wobb, although Wobb without Smeargle probably wouldn't be as effective.

Thank you for your response.

EDIT: I read that using Trick Room while Trick Room is in effect negates it. I could teach it to my Smeargle, and use it to negate my opponent's Trick Room, thus removing the set up...
I recognize that this sounds like a rather strange strategy, and would require a further reimagining of Smeargle from a two-move Void/Sleep Talker, since I wouldn't want to accidently Sleep Talk my own death on. But I felt it requiered mentioning.

 

[Zog]

Not a bad team, but I really can't see it working in this tournament.

For one, Gyarados would really run rings around your current setup. Taunt on Wobb ruins the whole thing right off the bat, Heatran is completely useless against it, Chomp has nothing to take it out beyond a SD'd dragon claw and the best Smeargle has to offer is dark void which is imo cheap and will probably be banned if Darkrai is. Not 100% on it being banned though. Anyway, you really need an electric move on something or expect to be destroyed by the first person who has a Gyarados, and bear in mind that most teams for this tourney that I've seen in RMT so far have included one.

Another fault I've noticed is that Smeargle and Wobb have negative synergy, too. What's Wobb going to do when both his opponents are asleep? Wobbuffet isn't really suited to double battles, especially when concentrated fire can 2HKO him with Wobb having done nothing. I don't really like dark void either... way too cheap for my liking but I guess whoever's going to win this tournament will be using every trick they're able to get away with. And if you're playing to win you'll have to play dirty. Plus if your opponent opens by fake out-ing Smeargle then OHKOing it, you're absolutely screwed.

So overall I'd say it's not a bad team, but it just seems like you've strung together a few generically strong stuff with a support Smeargle, without planning for the common threats. As I said before, Gyarados would do serious damage to the entire 6 with Scizor in particular being completely walled. Wobbuffett also isn't suited to doubles at all imo and really doesn't work alongside Smeargle.

My suggestions:
- An electric move on something, or at least rock moves. Stone edge on Garchomp pehaps.
- Replace Wobb with something of your choice because he doesn't fit the team and is bad anyway.
- Redraft the team with some sort of recurring theme like rain or sun.
- Use the Salamence as a MixMence with fire blast, not fire fang.

I hope you find this useful.:D

 

[Purimpopoie]

Not a bad team, but I really can't see it working in this tournament.

For one, Gyarados would really run rings around your current setup. Taunt on Wobb ruins the whole thing right off the bat, Heatran is completely useless against it, Chomp has nothing to take it out beyond a SD'd dragon claw and the best Smeargle has to offer is dark void which is imo cheap and will probably be banned if Darkrai is. Not 100% on it being banned though. Anyway, you really need an electric move on something or expect to be destroyed by the first person who has a Gyarados, and bear in mind that most teams for this tourney that I've seen in RMT so far have included one.

Cheap though it may be, Dark Void is fair game in the tournament, whereas Darkrai itself is not. I'm not going to bother copy/pasting the rules, but there's a link to them in the OP.

Another fault I've noticed is that Smeargle and Wobb have negative synergy, too. What's Wobb going to do when both his opponents are asleep? Wobbuffet isn't really suited to double battles, especially when concentrated fire can 2HKO him with Wobb having done nothing. I don't really like dark void either... way too cheap for my liking but I guess whoever's going to win this tournament will be using every trick they're able to get away with. And if you're playing to win you'll have to play dirty. Plus if your opponent opens by fake out-ing Smeargle then OHKOing it, you're absolutely screwed.

While Wobb is rather dead weight while the opponents are asleep, he's doing his job by preventing switches, forcing their sleeping Pokemon to sit there while someone else sets up. Wobb can also Encore Fake Outs, Follow Mes, and other moves that are useless when used more than once.

But while Wobbuffet does his job like that, he does bring with him some very distinct weaknesses. As you note, he virtually screams "Kill my Team Mate" and mostly sits around uselessly, even if I get set up.

I've done some thinking about replacing Wobb and possibly Smeargle, too. But let's continue first.

So overall I'd say it's not a bad team, but it just seems like you've strung together a few generically strong stuff with a support Smeargle, without planning for the common threats. As I said before, Gyarados would do serious damage to the entire 6 with Scizor in particular being completely walled. Wobbuffett also isn't suited to doubles at all imo and really doesn't work alongside Smeargle.

Gyarados is something I never really thought about, to be honest. And I should have, too; it's packing Intimidate and lots of sweeping potential. A Taunt from that and Wobb's useless. If Smeargle misses the first Dark Void, it's goose could be cooked, as well.

I've been thinking of sets that could counter Trick-Roomers as well as help in other ways, as evidenced by my gimmicky Girafarig set in the Stark Mountain thread about this tournament. But if I wanted to go with something less.. stupid, perhaps this would be worth a try:

Dusknoir@Lum Berry
EVs and Nature to be determined
Trick Room
ThunderPunch
Pain Split
Imprison

Imprision if I forsee a Trick Room to prevent it from being set up as long as Noir's in play, hopefully allowing the teammate to set up. Pain Split for HP Recovery and ThunderPunch to hopefully hurt Gyarados some.

What do you think about that? I could replace Wobb with this, and either still run Smeargle's Dark Void, or replace Smeargle with something else altogether.

My suggestions:
- An electric move on something, or at least rock moves. Stone edge on Garchomp pehaps.
- Replace Wobb with something of your choice because he doesn't fit the team and is bad anyway.
- Redraft the team with some sort of recurring theme like rain or sun.
- Use the Salamence as a MixMence with fire blast, not fire fang.

- Sounds good on both counts. I could replace EQ with SE on Chomp, and the above Dusknoir has ThunderPunch.
- How does the above Noir look?
- As much as this is good advice, I'm of the opinion that using a theme like Rain, or Sun can be countered by a team of "Goodstuffs" as they're being called in the Stark Thread. I did consider it at first, though.
- After I had posted that I was, 'D'oh! Of course a mixed set would be better!' I guess something similar to what's in the Smogondex?

I hope you find this useful.:D

I found it very useful. Thank you very much!

 

[Zog]

That 'noir looks very good actually.:D
A much better replacement for Wobb. Pretty time-consuming though: first you'll have to breed imprison onto a misdreavus from gardevoir, then level it up until it learns pain split and breed for your duskulls.

I'm a little worried that imprison is a little too situational, but if you lead with it then it should be very good. An additional strength is that Noir is immune to fake out, so he should be a pretty stalwart anti-TR lead. Actually that's a very good quality. The only problem with Noir is that he's a tad lacking against teams that don't run TR, but then again that's the lesser of two evils. It's better to be prepared for one major threat than to overgeneralise and leave yourself open to it.

So yeah, great team. Dusknoir makes a brilliant addition. You should do well once the tournament begins. I'm going to the London one personally, lol. The only issue I have with it is the 128 person rule. I'll be pretty bummed if I don't get drawn, having travelled 250 miles to get there.