CAP 8 CAP 8 Stat Spread Submissions / Discussion

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I go with a Spec. Tank for attracting Contact moves for certain abilities.

HP:113
ATK:72
DEF:83
SPA:97
SPD:110
SPE:72

Phys Sweep: 96 (Average)
Phys Tank: 133 (Good)
Spec Sweep: 124 (Moderately Good)
Spec Tank: 169 (Extremely Good)
ODB: -17.1 (Moderate Bias to Defense)
PSB: -27.3 (Bias to Special)
Overall Rating: 412 (Very Good)

It has lower Atk than SpA to make it less likely to Outrage. Thoughts?
 
Edits have been made and might still be made. This is designed to be more of a mixed tank.

110 HP/ 80 Atk/ 100 Def/ 95 SpA/ 105 SpD/ 65 Spe BST: 555

Physical Sweepiness: 97 Rank 0: Average
Physical Tankiness: 153 Rank 4: Very Good
Special Sweepiness: 112 Rank 1: Above Average
Special Tankiness: 160 Rank 5: Extremely Good
Offense/Defense Balance: -19.4 Moderate Bias to Defense
Physical/Special Balance: -10.1 Moderate Bias to Special
Overall Rating: 418 Very Good

110 HP: 361-424, so it definitely follows the bulky theme. 110 HP is useful because you don't have to max HP EVs to have 101 Subs.

80 Atk: 176-284, it's not the best Attack, but it might still be able to use Dragon Dance effectively, also the Dragon type is more physically oriented when it comes to attacking (Dragon Claw, Outrage).

100 Def: 212-328, CaP could really use a good physical wall right now, and while Pyroak has better stats for the job, this Pokemon has more resistances and would still be viable. Swapped around the Defense and Special Defense.

95 SpA: 203-317, since Electric is more specially oriented on the attacking spectrum (Dragon also has some good options), and this guy could use this stat to abuse Thuderbolt and Draco Meteor a bit.

105 SpD: 221-339, a versatile tank, with all the huge special threats running around in the metagame, it definitely needs some good special defense so it can take a few hits on both sides of the attacking spectrum.

65 Spe: 149-251, probably its least useful stat. I personally think this Pokemon should focus on bulk, not speed, reason being there are plenty of fast attackers in CaP (Kitsunoh, Stratagem), as well as the fact that we already have a fast tank (Fidgit) as tennisace mentioned, and CaP could definitely use a useful mixed wall right now. It might not be able to outspeed that much, but with high enough defenses, it might not need to.

I think that is all. Give some feedback, if you would!
 
Yeah, a lot of these are way too slow for my liking. I know it's all personal business but yeah, I don't dig slow 'mons. 80 is the bare minimum I can stand, assuming it has Dragon Dance.

On that note, I really like KnightoftheWind's (84 HP / 94 Atk / 90 Def / 99 SpA / 104 SpD / 82 Spe). Balanced across the board, plenty of opportunity to go both ways.

Plus' (80 HP/70 Atk/100 Def/90 SpA/110 SpD/105 Spe) is a very close second; I only dislike the super low Attack.

I like both of these so much I likely won't even both submitting.
 
Since CAP8 is going to be able to utilize both spectrums of attack quite well with its coverage, I went for a base stat spread that seemed more defensive.


100 HP: The bare minimum for 101 HP Substitutes.

70 Atk: The attack is useable, but not overly powerful.

105 Def: Hopefully, this helps it tank if it accidentally takes an Earthquake or another harsh physical move.

80 Spa: Again, the offensive power isn't high, but can still dish out damage if needed.

109 SpD: CAP8 can utilize a higher Special Defense so it can tank on both sides of the spectrum as well as dish out damage from both sides.

95 Spe: This isn't neccessarily slow, but isn't hyper-fast so that it doesn't abuse revenge killing instead of tanking.

Physical Sweep: 110 Above Average
Physical Tank: 151 Very Good
Special Sweep: 110 Above Average
Special Tank: 156 Very Good
ODB: -19.4 (Somewhat Defensive)
Phys/Spec Bias: -1.8 (Moderately Special)
Total Rating: 415 (Very Good)
BST: 559

This feels like a pretty comfortable BSR for me.

EDIT: I'm putting some damage calcs in. The defensive ones are all super effective or gain STAB and are neutral/super effective against CAP8, the offensive also has some neutral calcs in it. These are all vs. the top 10 offensively based Pokemon for defensive, then the top 10 Pokemon from March for Offensive calcs.

Defensive: (Max HP, Max Def/SpD, positive nature)

vs. Adamant LO Max Attack Gyarados' Ice Fang: 33.66-40.1%
vs. Adamant LO Max Attack Gyarados' Earthquake: 51.98-61.39%
vs. Adamant Max Attack CB Scizor's Brick Break: 22.77-26.98%
vs. Adamant Max Attack CB Scizor's Pursuit(not fleeing): 18.56-22.03%
vs. Adamant Max Attack CB Scizor's Pursuit(fleeing): 25-29.46%
vs. Adamant Max Attack CB Scizor's Superpower: 37.13-43.81%
vs. Adamant Max Attack CB Scizor's X-Scissor: 37.38-44.06%
vs. Adamant Max Attack CB Scizor's U-Turn: 32.67-38.61%
vs. Modest Max Spa Specs Salamence's Draco Meteor: 112.87-132.67%
vs. Modest Max Spa Specs Salamence's Dragon Pulse: 72.77-86.14%
vs. Adamant Max Attack CB Salamence's Outrage: 114.36-135.15%
vs. Adamant Max Attack CB Salamence's Earthquake: 63.86-75.25%
vs. Mild 216 Spa LO Salamence's Draco Meteor: 95.54-112.87%
vs. Mild 84 Atk LO Salamence's Earthquake: 44.55-52.97%
vs. Mild 84 Atk LO Salamence's Outrage: 80.2-95.05%
vs. Adamant Max Attack LO Salamence's Earthquake: 55.45-65.35%
vs. Adamant Max Attack LO Salamence's Outrage: 99.5-117.33%
vs. Modest Max Special Attack Specs Heatran's Earth Power: 54.46-64.36%
vs. Modest Max Special Attack Specs Heatran's Hidden Power Ice: 42.57-50.5%
vs. Modest Max Special Attack Specs Heatran's Dragon Pulse: 54.46-64.36%
vs. Adamant Max Attack Choice Band Infernape's Close Combat: 31.93-37.62%
vs. Naive Standard Special-Based Life Orb Mixape HP Ice: 29.21-34.65%
vs. Modest Max Special Attack Choice Specs Infernape's Focus Blast: 46.29-54.95%
vs. Modest Max Special Attack Choice Specs Infernape's Hidden Power Ice: 36.14-43.07%
vs. Adamant Choice Band Max Attack Metagross' Meteor Mash: 23.76-28.22%
vs. Adamant Choice Band Max Attack Metagross' Earthquake: 63.86-75.25%
vs. Adamant Choice Band Max Attack Tyranitar's Stone Edge: 47.52-55.94%
vs. Adamant Choice Band Max Attack Tyranitar's Crunch: 37.87-44.8%
vs. Adamant Choice Band Max Attack Tyranitar's Earthquake: 63.37-74.75%
vs. Relaxed Standard Mixed Swampert's Ice Beam: 21.78-25.74%
vs. Relaxed Standard Mixed Swampert's Earthquake: 40.59-48.02%
vs. Adamant Max Attack Choice Band Swampert's Earthquake: 83.17-98.02%
vs. Adamant Max Attack Choice Band Swampert's Avalanche(if Swampert was attacked): 66.34-78.22%
vs. Adamant Max Attack Choice Band Swampert's Ice Punch: 41.58-49.01%
vs. Modest Max Special Attack Latias' Choice Specs Dragon Pulse: 72.77-86.14%
vs. Modest Max Special Attack Latias' Choice Specs Draco Meteor: 112.87-132.67%
vs. Modest Max Special Attack Choice Specs Lucario's Dragon Pulse: 50-58.91%
vs. Modest Max Special Attack Choice Specs Lucario's Focus Blast: 50-58.91%
vs. Modest Max Special Attack Choice Specs Lucario's Hidden Power Ice: 39.11-46.04%
vs. Adamant Max Attack Life Orb Lucario's Close Combat: 43.07-50.74%
vs. Adamant Max Attack Life Orb Lucario's ExtremeSpeed: 19.31-22.77%
vs. Adamant Max Attack Life Orb Lucario's Ice Punch: 36.14-43.07%


Offensive (Max Spa/ Atk, positive nature, Choice Band/Specs):

Draco Meteor

vs. 252 HP/ 4 SpD Adamant Scizor: 47.09-55.81%
vs. 80 HP/0 SpD Rash Salamence: 186.32-219.37%
vs. 4 HP/0 SpD Timid Heatran: 39.81-47.22%
vs. 156 HP/0 SpD Adamant Gyarados: 73.24-86.76%
vs. 0 HP/ 0 SpD Naive Infernape: 136.52-161.09%
vs. 252 HP/ 0 SpD Adamant Metagross: 40.66-47.8%
vs. 176 HP/ 0 SpD Adamant Tyranitar in Sandstorm: 47.01-55.58%
vs. 0 HP/ 216 SpD Calm Blissey: 27.34-32.41%

More to come later!
 
Hit Points - 132
Increases Bulkiness and allows handy use of Aftermath incase it gets chosen. Plus lots of HP is usually not a bad thing. Also being able to get up 101 hp substitutes with ease can't hurt a bulk-mon. Particularly if it gets a set-up move or two.
Attack - 92
Personally I would rather this guy go as a physical sweeper. A combo of Outrage(or Dragon Rush if Compound Eyes is chosen) and Volt Tackle would be pretty painful to take.
Defense - 91
This gives it a physical Tankiness of 159, or Extremely Good. Most likely Dragric here will fear physical threats the most(taking neutral or super effective hits), so lets give this guy some physical bulk.
Special Attack - 70
This gives it a 'usable' special attack. Particularly if it gains something like Tail Glow or Nasty Plot.
Special Defense - 70
It has a plethora of special resists so it can afford to have slightly lower special defense. However it's Special Tankiness is still Moderately Good. Combine that with good resists and well I am not too worried about it being downed easily by a good number of special attacks.
Speed - 100
I really don't like slow-mon. 100 base speed allows it to get in a quick Thunder-wave or the ilk. At the same time having Ninjask like speed is really not needed on bulk-mon.


----As for its ratings----
Physical Sweepiness: 137 Rank 3 Good
Physical Tankiness: 159 Rank 5 Extremely Good
Special Sweepiness:106 Rank 0 Average
Special Tankiness: 128 Rank 2 Moderately Good
Offensive/Defensive Balance: -8.1 Slight Bias to Defense
Physical/Special Balance: 26.2 Bias towards Physical
Overall Rating: 419 - Very Good
Total Base Stats: 555

I thought of going lower but decided to just stick here. My idea is very prone to changing. It would be nice if this thing got recover or the ilk.
 
OK, I'll try this stat spread and see what happens

108HP/87Atk/75Def/95SAt/95SDf/95Spe

Base Stat Total: 555

untitled-2.jpg


108HP/95SDf

As you can see, this gives CAP8 a 'Very Good' score in Special Tankiness, which will well and truly encourage attackers to use physical attacks instead, in which it can utilize Static and/or Rough Skin to full effect.

95SAt/95Spe

True, this is supposed to be Somewhat Defensive, but it does need to be able to at least OHKO Gyarados. With 95SAt and Thunder Bolt, CAP8 is able to OHKO Gyarados that don't invest in SDf without even investing in SAt, while 95Spe + Choice Scarf = guarantee that CAP8 can outspeed Dos before it even gets the DD boost. True, this does leave it entirely suspectabile to Dugtrio, but I want him to be a check, so I don't find that a problem.

75Def

75Def is the absolute MAXIMUM defense I can give it with the amount of HP it has while still allowing Duggy to 2HKO it with EQ. As I said earlier, I want him to be a check, and all Pokes make better checks when they're able to at least 2HKO their enemies or wall them to death (since Dugtrio's a revenge killer, he has to suffice on the former). On the plus side, this does allow CAP8 (with 252HP and 252Def EVs) to survive a DDDos's Earthquake before putting it out of its misery via TBolt.

87Atk

I put the rest of the base stats into Atk, making this number 87. But let me assure you, 87Atk IS usable. Hell, Duggy makes do with only 80Atk and a less powerful STAB move (Earthquake only has 100BP), while this guy has Volt Tackle AND Outrage (both of which have 120BP).

Any comments are welcome, as long as they're constructive

EDIT: Fixed image so you can actually see base stats etc.
 
Out side of my own submission, I like

Sc4rfCh0mp's[more speed please], ShunWolfKin's[The only change I would make here would be to switch it's Physical and Special Stats] and KnightoftheWind's-84 HP / 94 Atk / 90 Def / 99 SpA / 104 SpD / 82 Spe[again more speed]

This is just my personal opinion, but again, I think it should have it's speed in the 85-100 range. In order to attack decently it's needs that speed. And the higher the base speed, the more you can pour EV's into other stats.
Since all it's stats can't be high, I think physical Attack should be the one to take a cut, since with Sp.Attack it could carry a devastating Thunderbolt& Draco Meter/Dragon pulse combo. Without a moderately high Special Attack it really won't be able to take advantage of it's electric STAB.

As for it's weakness, Sp. Defense is should be the lower defense. I choose SPECIAL Defense as opposed to physical defense, so that it can take an Earthquake or two. With a more power against EQ, the way to take it out is by using a SPECIAL Ground type attack, which would be a new idea.
 
If Plus adds 5 more speed, and 1 more HP he gets a perfectly balanced 0.0 bias. Alternatively, raising both special attack and HP by 1 also gets a 0.0 bias as well (though it'd probably be less useful then the former considering 110 speed allows it to tie with latias and outspeed infernape). Either way it's still in very good range.
 
135 HP / 100 Att / 85 Def / 50 SpA / 90 SpD / 80 Spe = 540
This BST is equal to Gyarados, Milotic, Electivire et al.
Admittedly inspired by Cartoons' art, this is a vague combination of lapras, vaporeon and gyarados; it gives potential for several roles and was built with dragon dance firmly in mind. In retrospect, it's similar to Zapdos and Dragonite, but heavier and weaker.

Physical Sweepiness: 130 - Rank 2 - Moderately Good
Physical Tankiness:
152 - Rank 4 - Very Good
Special Sweepiness:
72 - Rank -3 - Very Bad
Special Tankiness: 160 - Rank 5 - Excellent
Offense/Defense Balance:
-11.4 - Moderate Bias to Defense
Physical/Special Balance:
29.7 - Bias to Physical
Overall Rating:
414 - Very Good

135 HP = 411 - 474
Yeah, pretty massive, but this allows for 101+ Subs without EV investment (although the weakness to ice will count against it), and lessens the base stat strain on Def and SpD.

100 Att = 212 - 236 - 299 - 328
This gives it something to lay on some proper hurt with, tying with Dusknoir and Flygon amongst many others.

85 Def = 185 - 206 - 239 - 295
This level of Def, combined with its massive HP, can allow CAP8 to take some serious punishment (85 base Def is equal to Zapdos).

50 SpA = 122 - 136 - 199 - 218
Not going to be doing much with this stat...other OU's blessed with this base stat are Weavile, Ninjask and Dugtrio, none of which look to it.

90 SpD = 194 - 216 - 279 - 306
Again, tied with Zapdos, this stat will, combined with a good selection of special resists, allow it to wall rather effectively, represented by that "excellent" ST of 160. Other OU base 90's are magnezone, swampert and metagross. A common enough theme here is tanky!

80 Spe = 176 - 196 - 259 - 284
A crucial speed tier here - this is the same speed as both Dragonite and Mamoswine, the latter being CAP8's nightmare, typing-wise (although a CAP8 SubPunch set would be interesting). Non-scarf Metagross, Skarmory and Heatran are outsped, as is vaporeon. However, Gyarados will outspeed, but not OHKO, with EQ's.

Overall
This Base Stat Spread allows for use of DD, and brings a lot of bulk to the table on both sides of the spectrum. STAB Outrage/Dragon Claw would be the order of the day, combined with the less-impressive STAB Thunderpunch/Volt Tackle (although the ability Rock Head would solve that one...perhaps overpowered though). SubPunch could be lethal here, with 101+ (or rather 103+) Subs, however, the speed could also be abused for DDancing. Aaaaand walled by Steelix.

Will try and do some damage calcs if I get the time.
 
Here's my submission:

HP 105

Att 80

Def 105

SP.Att 85

SP.Def 105

Spd 75

BST: 555

Physical Sweepiness: 105. Rank 0. Average
Physical Tankiness: 156. Rank 4. Very Good
Special Sweepiness: 110. Rank 1. Above Average
Special Tankiness: 156. Rank 4. Very Good
Offence/Defence Balance: -18.9. Moderate Bias to Defence
Physical/Special Bias: -2.9. No Bias

Overall Rating: 419. Very Good

Reasoning: We want this poke to be somewhat defensive. With this Spread it can be either physical or special tank or somewhat mixed and at the same time hit back reasonably well.

105 Base HP means you can achieve 404 hp and 101 subs without the full EV investment and base 105 defences means it can take hits very well from either side of the spectrum. The question then becomes "which do you fear most?".

Physical Ground is everywhere. Without STAB, however, even a CB Adamant Metagross fails to OHKO with EQ if you're running 252Hp/252Def, doing at most 73.43%. Leftovers versions even fail to 2HKO. Compare this with Adamant CB Rampardos who still only does 85.02% which fails to OHKO even with SR factored in. With STAB, the strongest you'll find is Rhyperior's, whom will only OHKO if running a Choice Band with Adamant 74.36% of the time. Mamoswine, who's EQ is 2nd strongest, achieves this only 58.97% of the time.

Special Ground is just about never found STABed. The strongest one would be Camerupt's Earth Power which fails to OHKO even with a +Sp.att nature and Specs, even with SR assuming the same defensive spread with Sp.def instead of Def. It does at most 83.09%. Without STAB, the strongest is Heatran's which does at most 43% with Modest nature, 55.56% with Life Orb and 64.25% with Specs. Timid with LO does at most 51.21% and with specs does at most 58.45%.

Physical Ice almost needs no mention as the strongest Ice attack is Ice Punch, which is strongest coming from adamant CB Weavile and does at most 75.85% assuming the same spread. Jolly CB Weavile does at most 69.57%. LO Jolly Weavile barely guarantees the 2hko doing a minimum of 51.21%. Dropping lower than that loses the guarantee. Mamoswine has a higher Attack stat, but has only Avalanche at his disposal for a strong hit, doing at most 64.25% with a +nature and CB. Dropping any lower than that loses the guarantee unless Avalanche gets the boost from being hit.
Without STAB, the only worthy mention is DD-Gyarados, who after one dance deals at most 58.94% with a +nature and LO with Ice Fang, but he's still better off just using EQ instead which deals at most 90.34% under the same circumstances.

Special Ice is of slightly higher concern, but still not significant. The strongest STAB Ice beam comes from Glaceon and with a +nature and specs only OHKOs 15.38% of the time. Switching to Life Orb means doing at most 88.41% which only OHKOs with SR 2.56% of the time. With Blizzard, however, it's a guaranteed OHKO with +nature specs and 92.31% of the time with a neutral nature. +nature with LO OHKOs with Blizzard 66.67% of the time and neutral nature LO only 7.69% of the time. Dropping any lower than this is a 2HKO at best.
Without STAB the Strongest Ice Beam comes from Porygon-Z and does at most 69.57% with a +nature and specs. With LO it's a barley guranteed 2HKO doing at minimum 51.69%. Dropping lower than this loses the guarantee. With Download, +nature and specs, however, Ice Beam OHKOs 28.21% of the time.

Saying this, if we give this pokemon Thick Fat, Ice will be of even lesser concern.

Then we finally have Dragon. +Nature LO Salamence's Outrage will OHKO 79.49% of the time before getting in any DDs, whereas neutral nature LO Outrage will OHKO 28.21% of the time. Without the LO, however, 'Mence will only OHKO with a +Nature and SR 2.56% of the time. Pull off one DD in any situation, however, and it's gg for our CAP. Specs versions will always OHKO with Draco Meteor regardless of nature, but fails to OHKO with Dragon Pulse, even with a +nature and SR factored in. LO variants will OHKO with DM 87.18% of the time with a +nature and 28.21% of the time with neutral. LO Dragon pulse will always 2HKO regardless of nature assuming 252 EVs. Same calcs apply for Latias as they share Sp.att.

80 base attack means that with a neutral nature and no EVs, You score a guaranteed 2HKO on no Hp/Def Kingdra, Flygon, Latias and Salamence with Dragon Claw, provided you can evade the Intimidate reduction with the latter, and also Dragonite 66.54% of the time, which elevates to 100% with SR factored in. All of these of course require advance scouting and that you switch in after they've downed one of yours. With Thunderpunch you will always 2HKO 4hp/0def Gyarados after Indimate factors in, and OHKO 87.18% of the time without Intimidate. Further, you'll also have a shot at 3HKOing MaxHp/Def Bold Vaporeon and Milotic before Marvel Scale and a shot at 2HKOing minHp/min Neutral defense Empoleon, and with a minor investment in attack these chances become guarantees. You also 3HKO none-roost maxHP/minDef Togekiss. You fail, however, to 3HKO Max Hp/Def Bold Suicune without massive investment, unless we chose to give this one Volt tackle, which without any investment is a guaranteed 3HKO.

85 base Sp.Att means that with a neutral nature and no EVs it's a guaranteed OHKO on 4HP/min Sp.def Gyarados, a 2HKO on Max Hp/0 Sp.def Skarmory and a 3HKO on Max Hp/220 Sp.def Calm Zapdos and MaxHp/224Sp.def Arghonaut with Thunderbolt among others. Further, Dragon Pulse will be a stronger attack on other Dragons than Dragon Claw was.

75 Base speed outruns I think all slow tanks and sweepers like Skarmory, Blissey, Hippowdon, no speed-Tyranitar etc without any investment. Further, should we chose to give this pokemon Dragon Dance, it'll outpace things a lot quicker than Tyranitar would've

So, what do you think?

EDIT: The defensive calcs I made were with a +nature in the corresponding defences. My bad
 
K heres my spread, just to begin with:
95/75/95/90/100/103
My BST: 558 yeah its a bit high, i know but that can be changed.

And here is the rest of the stuff :
Physicall Sweepiness: 116 above average
Physical Tankiness: 135 Good
Sp Sweepiness: 138 Good
Sp Tankiness: 141 good
Overall rating: 404 very good

I will edit in calcs and stat breakdown later.
 
I really like the set Spiny Norman submitted, and I'm fully behind it. Many people are going completely for Sp.A or for a mid-ground between everything. I love this set for it's focus on physical attack and bulk as it promotes Outrage and Dragon Claw over Draco Meteor for Dragon STAB (or Dragon Rush in the case of compund eyes winning ability), which is something I promote. Many of the sets submitted so far have all been a try at running a mid-ground everything that has the somewhat bias to defense. This set has focus while also supporting that defensive role we voted for. I also promote the creation of a new physical Electric move and this helps support that creation. Spiny Norman himself explains other reasons very clearly, Just wanted to say excellent job!
 
Out side of my own submission, I like

Sc4rfCh0mp's[more speed please], ShunWolfKin's[The only change I would make here would be to switch it's Physical and Special Stats] and KnightoftheWind's-84 HP / 94 Atk / 90 Def / 99 SpA / 104 SpD / 82 Spe[again more speed]

This is just my personal opinion, but again, I think it should have it's speed in the 85-100 range. In order to attack decently it's needs that speed. And the higher the base speed, the more you can pour EV's into other stats.
Since all it's stats can't be high, I think physical Attack should be the one to take a cut, since with Sp.Attack it could carry a devastating Thunderbolt& Draco Meter/Dragon pulse combo. Without a moderately high Special Attack it really won't be able to take advantage of it's electric STAB.

As for it's weakness, Sp. Defense is should be the lower defense. I choose SPECIAL Defense as opposed to physical defense, so that it can take an Earthquake or two. With a more power against EQ, the way to take it out is by using a SPECIAL Ground type attack, which would be a new idea.

I tried going up to 85 Speed, but it bumped the overall rating to Excellent at 436 iirc. I can take some out of Special Attack though, seeing as most people are looking at making this more of a physical attacker.

EDIT: I upgraded to 85 Speed by lowering Special Defense by one point and Special Attack by 5.
 
revision 3

I tried going up to 85 Speed, but it bumped the overall rating to Excellent at 436 iirc. I can take some out of Special Attack though, seeing as most people are looking at making this more of a physical attacker.
EDIT: I upgraded to 85 Speed by lowering Special Defense by one point and Special Attack by 5.
Personally, I'd take ten points from Physical Attack, and add it to your Speed, making it 100 HP/70 Atk/105 Def/80 Spa/109 SpD/95 Speed=559

I can take some out of Special Attack though, seeing as most people are looking at making this more of a physical attacker.
I'm against the idea of making it a Physical attacker becuase then it can't take advantage of Thunderbolt, and possibly Thunder if it's on a rain dance team.
IMO, making it's attack stat the special stat gives it more options.
Besides, since the DP attack split, the OU metagame has really shifted to the physical. I just don't think we need another physical attacker.

Here's my newest revision:
CAP4.jpg

Essentially, I took Spiny Norman's and re-arranged it. The BST is still 540.

HP115 /Atk60 /Def100 /SpA90 /SpD85 /Speed 90

The Attack(60) is low because as I've previously stated, one Attack has to suffer. I think having good Special STAB (Thunderbolt, Draco Meter, etc) in a mostly physical meta-game is a better option. Not to mention that, while 60 is low, it could still be used, by maxing out EV's

The High HP(115) compensates for the relatively low Special Defense. As I've stated before, having to use special attacks to take this Pokemon out gives it more advantages, and means that you'll have to take that into consideration when planning your team. It also allows for; bigger substitues with out a greater EV investment, and the ability to take more hits without pouring EV's into the "actual" Defense stats.

The Special Attack, and Speed stats (both 90) allow for it to make a great special attacker, without being over powered.

The Special Defense (85) is meant to be it's weak point.
 
Im behind The Bassoonist's. I was actually going to have pretty much that exact same set. It takes hits well, but its not indestructible by any means. Offensively it can hurt, but yet again its not overpowered.

The only change I might make (to please those who feel it needs to have a sweep-y option) is to take 5 points from Sp. Atk, Def or Sp. Def and put them in speed.

Overall I think its a great spread.
 
Personally, I'd take ten points from Physical Attack, and add it to your Speed, making it 100 HP/70 Atk/105 Def/80 Spa/109 SpD/95 Speed=559


I'm against the idea of making it a Physical attacker becuase then it can't take advantage of Thunderbolt, and possibly Thunder if it's on a rain dance team.
IMO, making it's attack stat the special stat gives it more options.
Besides, since the DP attack split, the OU metagame has really shifted to the physical. I just don't think we need another physical attacker.

I already posted some reasons against this exact reasoning of choosing special over physical in the ability discussion thread so I'll simply quote it and just to clarify the sub-punching part is a basis for my Iron Fist support. I can sort of see the merits of your argument that there are a lot of physical attackers in the current metagame, but theres a reason for that; physical has a lot of strong options.
I support the more physical side of this poke personally and as such it shows great potential for sub-punching as well as weighing thunderpunch against thunderbolt, which seems to be a big reason why people are trying to make to make this poke more special sided, which personally I think is a little misguided. For example most of the special sided wants are to use Draco Meteor and Thunderbolt. Draco Meteor can be strong but it halves our Sp. Att and we've already decided to make a slightly defensive poke so it won't be very high to begin with, which then leaves us to switching out more. Which with this poke who faces many common SE moves, is not such a great idea to have to switch out a lot. Thunderbolt over Thunder Punch is easy to see why people are choosing it (because of the 95 to 75 power comparison) but lets remember that dragon is our more reliable STAB attack as it is only resisted by Steel and SE against other dragons who may want to switch in on an expected electric attack. Electric is resisted by three types (one being dragon who may try to switch in on these and outspeed for STAB+SE) and utterly nullified by ground which is going to be a commonly seen counter for this poke.

So, you see we don't really need the special stat to support the dragon typing and as you said you support it for the electric. Which as I've tried to say is going to be the most easily blocked of our STAB attacks and the one opponents will be hoping we use. So why limit ourselves for a move with 30 more power (due to STAB calculation) when most things we'll hit for SE won't be staying in (Gyarados for example) and will be switching to a ground type, giving them a free switch and the upper hand since we ourselves may have to switch from there. Also, for those that do stay in, a STAB+SE Thunder Punch can still lay on the hurt regardless.
 
I think I will take Captain's suggestion and change for 81 HP/70 Atk/100 Def/90 Satk/110 SpD/110 Spe. It's very balanced with a 0.0 rating, hitting the borderline between attack and defense. -18.1 bias to special, but that's pretty helpful anyways.

It's still going to be bulky, yet it will actually outspeed some nifty stuff like Fidgit as well. With this it can avoid encores from Fidgit that try to switch in on this guy's electric move. Furthermore it will tie with Latias and Gengar as well as outspeed Infernape.

As for this thing looking similar to Latias, I honestly think it's typing is reason enough to differentiate this thing from Latias. Notable things that threaten Latias such as Scizor will have no business with CaP8, which is something very valuable to have.

Furthermore, it also has a Ghost neutrality, meaning it will deal with Rotom differently. I am not afraid of this thing looking a bit like Latias, because that typing will make it play differently.

As for arguments about "Speed will make it too much like a sweeper that tries to outspeed things," the thing is that Speed is very important, and the reason why you would try to outspeed something is because it is a beneficial stat, something more important than even it's defenses. Outspeeding something could mean setting up screens before your opponent to prevent to take less damage, or crippling your foes first before they sweep your team. In this case, speed is very important, and it is a stat that shouldn't be neglected simply because it's supposed to be bulky, which isn't even an argument anyways. Bulky simply means to take an attack, which it already can. Speed, as I've said before, works for both Offense and Defense, which is why I oppose low speed stats in this case.

There is no doubt that Speed is beneficial, and this is why I'm supporting this. I'm not even going to go for base 80-90 range, because Speed for this pokemon would be very helpful. I hope people can realize this.
 
Right now the only spreads that appeal to me are Deck Knight's and Plus. Deck Knight (Very Good spread) is on the slow side, but has acceptable offensive power. Plus is faster, which is always a plus (no pun intended), but really wish it had a bit more [sp]attack at the moment. Don't know if removing 5-10 points from sp.def and moving them to sp.atk would help but that's just me.
 
I don't think this should be fast at all. Think Paralysis here. I think 50-70 Speed is perfectly acceptable, whatever taken away from it can go to other stats.
 
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