Poseidon- An OU RMT

[Il Mostro]

-Poseidon-

The God of the Sea? That fits Gyarados pretty well.

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I was never a fan of stall , yet i am in love with some bulk and offense. Recently , i am been trying out a Bulky Offense but the teams i made was not working well.
So, i decided to browse through the RMT Archive for some inspiration.
So , i went into the thread ' We Are The Machampions' by Obi.
​

I browsed through it quickly and something caught my eye.
Restalk Gyarados with Adamant nature and a lot of Attack EVs ? Thats something new ( for me )

I then decided to make a team around Restalk Gyarados.
​

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Team at a glance
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Swampert (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP/228 Def/4 Spd/24 SAtk
Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Protect/Toxic/Roar
- Stealth Rock

Swampert is only the first out of my three Bulky Waters used in this team.
Swampert sets up Stealth Rocks which well , every team needs.
I am very reliant on Swampert to counter many potential threats like Salamence so, i can't afford to let it die early.
Usually, after setting up Stealth Rocks , i keep Swampert in until a threat switches in.
For some reasons , i've been seeing less and less Metagross/Heatran leads ,which could give me a reason to use Toxic over Protect.

Rotom-h @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 8 HP/248 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Overheat
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Trick

A Tricker! Just exactly what i need to open up for Gyarados to sweep.
Stall Teams usually stop Gyarados from sweeping so i need something that is able to cripple Stall Teams.Other than a wall breaker , a Tricker is obviously the best.
Also this is my Gyarados revenge killer.
As my Gyarados has only 1 Attacking move which can allow other Gyarados to set up on me. So, i need a reliable revenge killer.
Overheat allows me to kill SD Lucario who can trouble my team a lot after Gyarados has fainted.
Shadow Ball is there for Psychics and other Ghost whom i might outrun with or without Scarf.


The Star of the Show!

Poseidon (Gyarados) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP/176 Atk/24 Def/32 Spd/24 SDef
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

The Star of the Show! Gyarados !

Offensive and yet at the same time Bulky!
Yes , i took the EVs from Obi's thread ' We are the Machampions ' and twisted a little ( Credits to Obi )
Maximum Hit Points to make Gyarados more sturdy.
176 Attack EVs with Adamant nature gives 2 points more than 172.
32 Speed EVs is there to outrun Positive nature base 90 Pokemon after a Dragon Dance.
The remaining EVs are divided between the defenses to ensure more survivability.
After a couple of Dragon Dances , this thing is almost unstoppable unless a Water Absorb (BAN ME PLEASE) or something that resist Water comes in.

Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 172 HP/120 Def/216 Spd
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Surf
- Rapid Spin
- Recover

How can Gyarados sweep or wall something if its already half dead ?!
Starmie is my Rapid Spinner and yet another Gyarados counter.
It also functions as my MixApe counter which could severely damage my team if it has Thunderpunch/ Grass Knot / Close Combat / Fire Blast.
172 HP EVs is there to hit the Leftovers Point which could be helpful because that 1 HP might be just what i need.
120 Def EVs is there to maximise physical defense so i can effectively not get KO-ed by a +1 Bounce or Stone Edge from Gyarados after Stealth Rock.
216 Speed is to outrun positive nature base 110 Pokemons like Gengar in which i can kill with Surf it Gengar is weakened.

Tyranitar (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP/168 Atk/88 SDef
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

Tyranitar is a vital team member in this team. I need it to kill the common counters of Gyarados eg ; Celebi , Rotom.
Pursuit is definitely a must on CB Tyranitar to effectively kill what it is supposed to kill.
Tyranitar is the glue of my team.
Without it , my team would'nt function and get walled badly by many many things.
Why 168 Attack and not 252 Attack ? Well , 168 Attack guarantees that 252Hp/200 Def Bold Rotom is 2HKOed by Pursuit IF it doesn't switch out.
The rest of the EVs are pumped into HP and Special Defense to allow Tyranitar to absorb more hits.

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP/184 Spd/72 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon

Jirachi is there to fix the various problems that my teams can face like Vaporeon also , it functions as a Special Sweeper very well.
I've gotten more sweeps with this thing than I've got with Gyarados.
Many people pack counter for Gyarados but not Jirachi what a shame D:
Its bulk could be useful at times when i need it to absorb an attack.
Max HP is there so Blissey couldn't break my Substitute in a hit allowing me to set up easily.
184 Speed is there so i can outrun Positive nature base 90 Pokemons and those running 1 or 2 more points to outrun them.
The remaining EVs are pumped into Special Attack so Jirachi could hit harder.
However , replacing Scizor for Jirachi has gave me a lack of priority which could be problematic.

Previous Team Members

Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 168 HP/164 Atk/176 SDef
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Pursuit
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower

Scizor is here to spam U-turn early game to scout for what kind of counters my opponent has for Scizor as many Scizor's counter can also effectively counter Gyarados.
At late game , it can spam Bullet Punch and get a chance to sweep through teams.
Superpower is there to net a kill on Heatran,Magnezone,Blissey etc. who can not be OHKOed by any moves except Superpower.
It is also my backup pursuiter incase Tyranitar dies.
I don't really have a reason for using these EVs , other than Scizor being able to pack a punch and take some hits.
Scizor , is my most interchangable team member as i want to get a Strong Fighting type pokemon to kill Curse Tyranitar and Porygon2 who can cause my team problems.Any Suggestions?
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Team Building Process
I was inspired by Obi's team ' We are the Machampions ' to use Restalk Gyarados. So , the first pokemon on my team without a doubt is Gyarados.

Celebi , Rotom , Starmie , Vaporeon , Slowbro , Zapdos and Porygon2 are the most common counters i can think of for Gyarados.
They can be stopped by a strong pursuiter.
Tyranitar and Scizor instantly sprang up in my mind . But then , i decided to only add Tyranitar at the moment.

So by now , i know i need a Stealth Rocker.
Infernape , Swampert , Heatran , Azelf , Aerodactyl , Hippowdon and Metagross was what i thought of.
I decided i needed a Salamence counter so , only Hippowdon and Swampert fit in.
I really had no idea why i used Swampert over Hippowdon.
Hippowdon has a recovery move which Swampert doesn't have.
Hippowdon counters Salamence better.
Hippowdon counters Lucario.
What Swampert has is only a fire resistant and being not weak to water.
So , i am considering Hippowdon suggestions needed! Should i or should i not use Hippowdon over Swampert?However , i can't deal with Kingdra effectively without Swampert.

Okay so now , i have a Stealth Rocker , a Bulky Sweeper , and a Bulky and Hard Hitting Pursuiter.
By now , something came up in my mind.
Gyarados is weak to Stealth Rocks! Weakening it by 25% each time it switches in isn't good!
So , i needed a Rapid Spinner.
The best OU Rapid Spinner i could think of is Forretress and Starmie.
I wanted Starmie because it can be used against opposing Gyarados and has a recovery move.
So now , my team currently has :

I pondered over stall teams awhile and decided they would give my team problems.
So , i decided i needed a Tricker.
There are many Trickers i also wanted a Spin Blocker since Stealth Rock would kill opposing pokemons faster.
So, i decided to use Rotom.

I noticed , i had 3 Grass weak Pokemon and only 1 Resist and now , i decided , i want a Grass resist and then i thought about Grass types for awhile and the most common one is Celebi.
Scizor instantly sprang up my mind since well , unless Celebi invests heavily in Special Attack , HP- Fire could'nt kill Scizor so , it makes a perfect addition to my team . ( Well thats what i thought )

However , Vaporeon proved to be more of a problem and i wanted something that could resist Grass and Set up on it.
Jirachi came up as an idea and i decided to use it.

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Threat List :

Azelf - Azelf is usually stopped by Tyranitar unless it packs HP-Fighting which i doubt could KO Tyranitar. Rotom could also revenge kill it with Shadow Ball.

Breloom : Gyarados can switch in , absorb the Spore , intimidate it then proceed to set up using Restalk.

Celebi : Celebi , can be dealt with using Tyranitar , Rotom and Jirachi.
Tyranitar can damage it badly with Crunch and Rotom can damage it too with Shadow Ball .
If Celebi doesn't have HP - Fire , Calm Mind and Perish Song , Jirachi can easily set up on it.

Dugtrio : Well if it traps Tyranitar in , i can switch into Gyarados and set up.It generally doesn't get any room to switch into any of my Pokes except Tyranitar.

Electivire : Swampert beats it hands down unless it has HP-Grass. Mixed Vire could be problematic , but thankfully , very little people use Electivire anymore. Also , Rotom could take a hit or two and hit it with STAB-ed Shadow Ball.

Empoleon : Pretty problematic , i can go to Starmie and spam Thunderbolt.Until it can no lolnger substitute then go to Rotom ( assuming it's Scarf has not been tricked ) , outrun it then kill it with Thunderbolt ( assuming a Modest Empoleon )
Also , Gyarados can deal with it pretty well , ( when it doesn't have Petaya or Torrent boost or HP-Electric )

Flygon : Since most variants are Choiced and usually spam U-turn instead of killing what it is supposed to kill , i can just spam attacks which could cause some problems to their team.Choice Scarf variants usually lack the power and Swampert can deal with it.

Gengar : If its Life Orb-ed and Rotom has not tricked it's Scarf , then it can revenge kill it.Scizor can also OHKO with Bullet Punch ( If i am not wrong )Also if Gengar is choiced and locked into Shadow Ball , Tyranitar can Pursuit it.

Gliscor : Swampert can Toxic or Ice Beam it and Starmie could Rapid Spin away the Stealth Rocks or Surf.

Gyarados : Starmie can OHKO it with Thunderbolt and Rotom can revenge kill it with Thunderbolt ( assuming Scarf has not been Tricked )

Heatran : Well , depends Choiced variants without HP Grass/Electric can be dealt with Swampert or Gyarados.
Same goes for the Sub Variants.

Heracross : Most variants are Choiced Scarf. Gyarados could deal with it pretty well with Intimidate.Also Swampert could take a hit and well hit it with Ice Beam.

Infernape : MixApe could be dealt with Gyarados or Starmie with their STAB-ed Water attacks.

Jirachi : CM Jirachi and Paraflinch ones are annoying.
If its Sub CM Jirachi with Flash Cannon / Thunderbolt then Swampert can deal with it.
If its Psychic / Thunderbolt then Tyranitar can deal with it.If its Superachi , Tyranitar can still deal with it.

Latias : Most Latias sets are dealt with using Tyranitar using Pursuit.Not much of a threat really.

Lucario : If its Adamant Lucario , Rotom can outspeed without Scarf and OHKO with Overheat. Gyarados could also set up on it if it doesn't have Stone Edge.

Machamp : Dynamic Punch's Confusion rate is annoying but most lack the Power to take down Gyarados without Stone Edge.

Kingdra : Quite problematic. Swampert can Toxic or Earthquake it.
If Rotom still have Scarf , i can hit it with STAB-ed Thunderbolt. I can also go to Gyarados , lure it to outrage then go to Jirachi and hit it hard with a Thunderbolt.

Magnezone : Tyranitar can deal with it .Only Jirachi can be hurt by it. Luckily most Magnezone carries HP Fire and not HP Grass so , Swampert can deal with it.

Mamoswine : Rotom can outspeed and OHKO with Overheat and Jirachi and outrun and Flash Cannon.
Scarf-ed Variants are mostly set up fodder for Gyarados.

Ninjask : Since most Ninjask are leads , i would just spam Ice Beam and then Toxic whatever it Baton Passes to . If its a Steel well then , depends on what it passes to then. Could be a potential danger to my team.

Porygon-Z : Tyranitar can deal with variants without HP-Fighting and Jirachi could set up on Scarf P-Z locked into Ice Beam or Tri Attack.

Rhyperior : Doesn't get much room to switch in but could be a potential danger to my team .
Starmie and Gyarados can outrun and it with STAB-ed Water attacks unless its a Rock Polish variant.

Roserade : Rotom and Tyranitar. I would let Gyarados absorb the Sleep Powder first , then go to my counters respectively.

Rotom-A : Tyranitar could hit it with Pursuit or Crunch.
However , Will-o-Wisp could cripple Tyranitar.Also , if it isn't the Leaf Storm Rotom , Swampert could toxic it.

Salamence : Swampert is here mainly to kill Salamence with Ice Beam.If Swampert is dead , it could be a problem.

Scizor : Rotom or Gyarados would deal with it.Rotom can Overheat and Gyarados well walls most variants except Swords Dance.

Snorlax : Quite a problem but doesn't get much room to set up. I could trick a Scarf onto it with Rotom or hit it hard with Crunches or Stone Edges with Tyranitar

Starmie : Tyranitar can pursuit it.Well almost sealing its fate.

Suicune : Quite problematic especially the offensive variants.I could trick it with Scarf so Gyarados can set up on it if its locked to Calm Mind or Surf .
Also Rotom can hit it hard with STAB-ed Thunderbolt even after +1.
A combination of Life Orb Recoil , Stealth Rock damage and Sandstorm damage and Thunderbolts from Rotom and Starmie would kill it.
Crocune could be problematic as my only Solution is tricking a Scarf onto it.

Togekiss : Most Togekiss has the 4 Move Syndrome . It usually carries Body Slam / Thunder Wave , Air Slash , Roost and Flamethrower or AuraSphere.So , Tyranitar and Scizor could deal with it pretty well.

Weavile : Gyarados can intimidate it and set up on it , except the Swords Dance Variant .

Yanmega : Gyarados can take Bug Buzzes but , Air Slash could be problematic.
Rotom could take Air Slash or Bug Buzz and hit it with Thunderbolt or Overheat.

Zapdos : Tyranitar can hit it with Crunch or Stone Edge.

Metagross : Agili Gross variants can be dealt with using Rotom or Swampert.

Tyranitar : Most i've faced are Choiced Banded variants and Swampert can take Crunches or Stone Edge.
Scizor can hit it with Bullet Punch or Superpower.

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[iKitsune]

First of all i adore this RMT.
This is an excellently made team and i'm sure it has a high success rate.

Hippowdon could work ok.
But it then gives you headaches when facing the SalaZone Combo as you are gonna lose Scizor your major dragon counter so youre probably gonna want to put ice fang on hippow over roar. Simply put Ice beam > Ice Fang. Roar wont do you a great deal of good anyway.

You have a nasty weakness to CM suicune offensive variants particularly and gonna run thorough your team Swampert will help you here to some extent and Starmie should too so you should be ok just something to worry about.
GL

 

[Il Mostro]

To be completely honest , i haven't laddered much with this team .
I was not planning to post this yet ( was planning to post it if i get successful with this team )
But well i accidentally posted it.

Also , yea Suicune could give me some problem.
I've changed Rotom EVs to Outrun it without Scarf so i can weaken it with Thunderbolt ( 46.20% - 54.97% )
After Life Orb recoil from it killing Rotom and after Stealth Rocks, Life Orb recoil and Sandstorm damage , Starmie can kill it with Thunderbolt.

Also thanks for the rate !

Edit :
Okay maybe , i will keep Swampert and not change to Hippowdon so that i deal with Kingdra better

 

[Xephyr]

If you want to revolve your team around sweeping with RestTalk Gyara, you absolutely NEED a reliable way to get rid of Vaporeon no matter what. Frankly, I don't see how you could reliably kill it. Starmie and Rotom-H could Thunderbolt it, I guess.

Honestly, you need something with a strong STAB Thunderbolt to get rid of Vaporeon. Maybe Jolteon?

 

[Tarquin]

I agree that Vaporeon is a scary threat to this team. It can stall Starmie out of it's Thunderbolt, as it isn't very powerful. The only way I can see you reliably defeating it are:

1. Hitting it hard as it comes in, then hitting it harder again, without it protecting or switching. I think only Tyranitar can do this.
   
2. Tricking a Scarf to it with Rotom, but you'll be hard pressed finding an opportunity, Vaporeon won/t switch in to a Scarf Rotom or stay in against one.
   
3. Hitting it hard with U-turn on Scizor, hoping it uses surf, not wish, then killing with Starmie, Rotom or Tyranitar. However, this trick will probably only work if Scizor is low on Health, so they'll be lured to attack, or if they haven't seen much of your team and don't feel threatened enough to wish.
   
   
4. Hitting it with Rotom's thunderbolts, which will only slightly 2HKO most Vaporeon and leaves you weak to pursuit, Jolteon, Latias and Ground types in general.

Vaporeon is tricky to deal with and I have sympathy with you, but I think you need to take some simple steps to prevent this. Giving Tyranitar his full attack will really help finish vaporeon off after prior Damage, which is a start.

Changing Starmie to an offensive Expert Belt will help this greatly. Give it full Special Attack and Expert Belt will achieve a 2HKO on Vaporeon after Stealth Rock and Leftovers. Factoring in another turn of protect and leftovers healing, you still have a chance to make the kill. If this still isn't enough power, Life Orb can be used instead. However, as this is a spinner foremost, this will make it far more fragile.

Scizor could run this spread, if you want a bulky, specially defensive model.

252 Atk / 80 SpD / 178 Hp

Running max attack give Scizor the best damage potential against Vaporeon using U-Turn.

Finally if you're not too concerned about Rotom as a scarfer, but more as a tricker, then run a modest nature, allowing a clear and powerful thunderbolt to destroy Vaporeon, 2HKOing even after leftovers and protect leftovers.

 

[Il Mostro]

Yea Vaporeon could be a potential problem.

I've been considering CM Jirachi or SpecsJolt over Scizor.

Also , Tyranitar without Max Attack could 2HKO 252/252 Bold Vaporeon after Stealth Rocks but yea it isn't reliable enough.
I need the Bulk from Starmie to take on Infernape and Gyarados , so , i am pretty reluctant to change its EVs.
I need Rotom to be Timid to outrun Timid Suicune and if i still have the Scarf , i could outrun +2 Modest Empoleon.

Currently , i will be trying out CM Jirachi and SpecsJolt respectively over Scizor.
CM Jirachi could set up on Vaporeon without Roar so yet IMO its viable over Scizor.
SpecsJolt however, is only there for the sheer power.

I am worried about the problems Tyranitar can give me without Scizor.
Also the lack of priority is really ... well >:/

So yea pretty tough decision.

 

[Tarquin]

The Cm Jirachi does sound interesting and Jolteon is useful on almost any team :)

Try them out and do change Tyranitar's attack evs to max, just as a last resort, incase when you do find a Vaporeon counter, it get killed too early.

By the way, I am very sympathetic, it owns me half the time too, and I actually have a plan of action of against the thing.

Good luck with the team :)

 

[iKitsune]

THis team has no glaring weaknesses as it is and i think it is absolutely excellent once again congratulations.

This team does have some weaknesses though luckily these pokemon and strategies are rarely used. You have a general weakness to a well made rain dance team. Kingdra and Ludicolo will rip through your team but the change i am going to suggest will compromise other areas of your team. You also have a massive weakness to a Calm Mind Celebi who can easily set up on the majority of your team and with the combination of GK and HP fire will wreak havoc. Im going to suggest you employ a Celebi of your own in the team to Pseudo deal with the former threats you could run this celebi of your own as with Scizor and TTar support it easily sweeps the majority of the metagame. Celebi also counters DD Kingdra and Gyarados and perhaps most importantly CM rachi. The only problem with this change is that you now lack rapid spin support. Regardless of this i think this could be strong solution for this team .

Fortunately for you these threats are fairly uncommon so you could be fine.


Good Luck.

 

[Bribery]

I also think Celebi is a good option over Starmie. My team is very similar to yours, except I use Celetran over Starmie and Rotom, and slightly different EV spreads. Celebi is a great Gyarados counter and a great physical wall in general. It also deals with your Vaporeon problem if you use Leech Seed.

The only problem is that your team does become a bit more MixApe weak (which my team still struggles against). Thankfully, most don't have Thunderpunch so Gyarados can usually take it down. A Rapid Spinner really isn't necessary on this team. Two Pursuit users should be able to take town stall teams easily.

Oh, and I wouldn't recommend Hippowdon over Swampert. I was also considering the same change to my team but Hippowdon can't even touch Azelf and it's basically screwed if Azelf uses Taunt. Swampert also hates Taunt but at least it can fight back with Ice Beam.

 

[Il Mostro]

The Cm Jirachi does sound interesting and Jolteon is useful on almost any team :)

Try them out and do change Tyranitar's attack evs to max, just as a last resort, incase when you do find a Vaporeon counter, it get killed too early.

By the way, I am very sympathetic, it owns me half the time too, and I actually have a plan of action of against the thing.

Good luck with the team :)

Mmk . I'll try out Tyranitar with Max Attack EVs.
So far , i haven't faced many Vaporeons but that haven't been giving me much of a problem . ( Maybe i've been facing them on Fast Paced Offense team )
But yea , Vaporeon could be a problem for my Bulky Offense Team.

Thanks for your help!

THis team has no glaring weaknesses as it is and i think it is absolutely excellent once again congratulations.

This team does have some weaknesses luckily these pokemon are rarely used though. You have a general weakness to a well made rain dance team. Kingdra and Ludicolo will rip through your team but the change i am going to suggest will compromise other areas of your team. You also have a massive weakness to a Calm Mind Celebi who can easily set up on the majority of your team and with the combination of GK and HP fire will wreak havoc. Im going to suggest you employ a Celebi of your own in the team to Pseudo deal with the former threats you could run this celebi of your own as with Scizor and TTar support it easily sweeps the majority of the metagame. Celebi also counters DD Kingdra and Gyarados and perhaps most importantly CM rachi. The only problem with this change is that you now lack rapid spin support. Regardless of this i think this could be strong solution for this team .

Fortunately for you these threats are fairly uncommon so you could be fine.

Good luck.,

Good Luck.

Thanks!
Rain Dance teams could be a potential problem but i usually beat it by playing around with Tyranitar's sandstorm and if i get the opportunity to get up a Calm Mind or 2 with Jirachi when it is not raining.
Nothing much could hurt a +1/+2 Jirachi on a Rain Dance team so yea.
Unreliable but my only way of beating Rain Dance is through mind games.
I could consider Celebi but i really have nothing to switch for it other than CM Jirachi or ScarfRotom.
But as of now , i think i'll try CM Celebi over CM Jirachi and see how it goes.

I also think Celebi is a good option over Starmie. My team is very similar to yours, except I use Celetran over Starmie and Rotom, and slightly different EV spreads. Celebi is a great Gyarados counter and a great physical wall in general. It also deals with your Vaporeon problem if you use Leech Seed.

The only problem is that your team does become a bit more MixApe weak (which my team still struggles against). Thankfully, most don't have Thunderpunch so Gyarados can usually take it down. A Rapid Spinner really isn't necessary on this team. Two Pursuit users should be able to take town stall teams easily.

Oh, and I wouldn't recommend Hippowdon over Swampert. I was also considering the same change to my team but Hippowdon can't even touch Azelf and it's basically screwed if Azelf uses Taunt. Swampert also hates Taunt but at least it can fight back with Ice Beam.

Hmm.
Okay will try out Celebi over CM Jirachi.
I don't really feel like removing Starmie as i am relying on Gyarados for countering Lucario and MixApe.
So , Stealth Rocks is definitely pesky for Gyarados.

Also , yea i won't be replacing Swampert for Hippowdon as i have Kingdra problems .
Also , usually i Ice Beam first turn when facing Azelf then go to Tyranitar to absorb the incoming Psychic or Explosion or , i could go to Rotom if i predicted a Explosion if it continues to Psychic , Rotom could Shadow Ball it . As its Sash is already broken by Swampert , i have no problems with Azelf leads.

Thanks for the rate!


Updated Threat List!

With Jirachi gone , many more threats are a arising problem for me like DD Mence and Snorlax.
I can't guarantee if Swampert is still alive to counter DD Mence as i rely on it to counter a lot of things.
I am missing the powerful Bullet Punches that Scizor provides but loves the sweeping capabilities Jirachi gives.

Suggestion please?
I would really love to have both Jirachi and Scizor on the same team but replacing what?
The best candidates are obviously Starmie and Rotom but i can't decide!
Without Rotom , i would face problems with CM Cune and Empoleon!
If i replace Rotom with Scizor , i could change Starmie to a moveset of

Starmie @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
Trick
Surf
Thunderbolt / Recover
Rapid Spin

To be able to cripple stall and spin at the same time.

If i replace Starmie for Scizor , Stealth Rocks would be a problem for Gyarados!
Or should i dump Jirachi and go back to Scizor?

 

[Esper]

Hm. You could always try LO + Thunder on Starmie over Thunderbolt. With Rain Dance running rampant, you could really use it to your advantage. Plus, you should be able to take care of the Vaporeon problem.

 

[Bribery]

I wouldn't go for Celebi over Jirachi because that gives you 3 Pursuit weaknesses. With CB Scizor running around and CB Tyranitar still being popular, you're going to have a hard time keeping Starmie, Rotom, and Celebi alive.

 

[iKitsune]

I wouldn't go for Celebi over Jirachi because that gives you 3 Pursuit weaknesses. With CB Scizor running around and CB Tyranitar still being popular, you're going to have a hard time keeping Starmie, Rotom, and Celebi alive.

Yes but Celebi 2HKO's TTar with GK so if you hit on the switch it dies at it will "always" outspeed (damn scarf variations) and Hp fire with some investment can ohko Scizor.

 

[Il Mostro]

Hmm.
Celebi has not been a good replacement for Jirachi or Scizor.
Guess i'll stick to Jirachi / Scizor

 

[iKitsune]

Hmm.
Celebi has not been a good replacement for Jirachi or Scizor.
Guess i'll stick to Jirachi / Scizor

I was saying Celebi over starmie.
See how that goes. Obviously you need your dragon resists. But i dont think rapid spinning is entirley necessary. Yeah and go with Scizor instead of JIrachi, it suits your team better and this celebi also beats CM Jirachi's like your own even with 1 or 2 cms's up because of HP fire. Otherwise you could have real problems with just Scizor against it.

 

[Il Mostro]

Oh okay my bad then.
I'll try CM Celebi over Starmie now

 

[Il Mostro]

Bump....
Cant really decide CM Celebi or Starmie is better.

CM Celebi has gotten me a few sweeps but its usually stopped by Heatran unless i have Earth Power.
Starmie has been doing the same thing ( spinning )

Can't really decide but i think i'm probably to get CM Celebi due to the lack of Set up on my team.
Also , if i use CM Celebi , i will be bringing back Scizor.