Meh, in my opinion it was not so much the fact that scarfing everything is brainless, so much as the fact that it's annoying and turns the metagame into a big guessing game. For the first day or two of this test you had to ask yourself, when faced with pretty much any Pokemon except Bronzong, "Is is scarfed, or is it not scarfed?" I saw scarfs on all sorts of random garbage, Tyranitar, Infernape, Breloom, whatever. Ofcourse, the most effective way of forcing people to not use scarfers is to put stall teams out there on the ladder, which is exactly what a lot of people have been doing. And it's been working, I think. I don't see half as many scarfers as I did a couple days ago.
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np: Stage 3 - Family Reunion ("This Is Why I Created" Remix)
- Thread starter Jumpman16
- Start date
All I'm going to say is that this metagame is much more interesting that the stall and gimmicky filled crap that is currently OU. My only concerns lie with Shaymin-S and Manaphy who I both feel are too much for OU, which I previously thought anyway.
People who are throwing a bunch of Scarfs on everything will lose easily once people start to think a bit more and stop throwing 6 suspects into a team and then expect it to do well.
People who are throwing a bunch of Scarfs on everything will lose easily once people start to think a bit more and stop throwing 6 suspects into a team and then expect it to do well.
Whaaat? Skymin and Manaphy are considered by many to be underwhelming in this environment. The ones that people have problems with are Deoxys-S and Latios.
Plus standard is definitely not "stall and gimmicky crap". The majority of teams are Bulky Offense, generally with multiple Steels and a couple of Dragons/Gyarados/Tyranitar.
I'm agreeing on Magnezone. With all the Scizor and Bronzong running amok, Magnezone can put them in their place, and free up Dragons to sweep. Because I'm not running a Scarf Magnezone anymore, he does enjoy switching into Jirachi's Trick quite as much, but he can trap him once he's locked into Iron Head. Magnezone also works as an emergency Dragon killer with HP Ice.
As for Deoxys-S.. the lead is great.. but right now, with everything geared to stop it, the best set for it is as a late game sweeper. It has a massive move pool, and not touched it speed wise.. it cleans up like nothing else, really. And once around, DX-S appearciates Magnezone removing Scizor. Or the odd Lucario.
Absolutely hate Magnezone; it's the reason why I'm afraid to bring Scizor out near the beginning of the game--I'd honestly remove her if it wasn't for the fact that she's so useful for picking off most of the offense-oriented suspects.
Sub Manaphy's actually not bad; can come in on a Heatran easy and threatens all the suspects barring other Manaphy that try to switch in, especially cocky Skymins.
To be honest, I'm still not seeing the whole "speed ties decide the game" thing. Maybe it's because I don't play a heavily offensive team, but--while I won't say it's easy to have something that can take a hit from anything--it doesn't seem all that hard to run pokemon that can take a hit and hurt the suspect (especially since so many are scarved), what so many stall players have shown. In fact, you don't even have to go stall; balanced offense is still viable. I'm surprised, though, that people aren't trying to paralyze things more often. I assume it's because of Garchomp, but paralysis totally works over Latios, Skymin, and Deoxys with a well-timed Thunderwave or Stun Spore (Scarf Jumpluff leads lol) or Body Slam, and most of these offensive teams don't seem to have a way to recover from that. Well, whatever, I don't know since I haven't played in about 24 hours. Maybe some crazy new innovation came up or something.
Also, support Dragonite needs more love.
Sub Manaphy's actually not bad; can come in on a Heatran easy and threatens all the suspects barring other Manaphy that try to switch in, especially cocky Skymins.
To be honest, I'm still not seeing the whole "speed ties decide the game" thing. Maybe it's because I don't play a heavily offensive team, but--while I won't say it's easy to have something that can take a hit from anything--it doesn't seem all that hard to run pokemon that can take a hit and hurt the suspect (especially since so many are scarved), what so many stall players have shown. In fact, you don't even have to go stall; balanced offense is still viable. I'm surprised, though, that people aren't trying to paralyze things more often. I assume it's because of Garchomp, but paralysis totally works over Latios, Skymin, and Deoxys with a well-timed Thunderwave or Stun Spore (Scarf Jumpluff leads lol) or Body Slam, and most of these offensive teams don't seem to have a way to recover from that. Well, whatever, I don't know since I haven't played in about 24 hours. Maybe some crazy new innovation came up or something.
Also, support Dragonite needs more love.
So far the only suspects that have seemed blatantly broken to me are Shaymin-S and Latios, and maybe possibly Deoxys-S. In this current metagame, Garchomp and Manaphy are just too slow and easily revenge killed to be broken, mostly because of the presence of the latis in Garchomp's case and Shaymin-S in Manaphy's case. Shaymin-S is much better than I remember it. I just won a match I should have lost because I was able to flinch my opponent's Latios 4 times in a row. The set I've been running is Seed Flare/Air Slash/Earth Power//HP Fire @ Life Orb and it has just been ripping shit up. There aren't really any safe switch ins aside from Blissey when you take into account that SpDef drop and flinch, and even Blissey falls to a few flinches. The only reliable way to beat Shaymin-S is by revenge killing it, which for the most part requires the use of a Choice Scarfer like Heatran that is very easy to set up on with something like DDtar or SDChomp, or by using revenge Deoxys who usually insta-dies to Pursuit Metagross.
The team I've been having the most success with utilizes both Lati twins. I run a Draco Meteor / Surf / HP Fire / Outrage @ Life Orb kamikaze Latios that takes out any and all Steel types and severely cripples guys like Tyranitar even if it costs his life. Then once the field is clear of counters I bring Sub / CM / Recover / Dragon Pulse @ Leftovers Latias to clean up. It's been working really well, the only problem is Mamoswine seems to be EVERYWHERE and has been a real thorn in my side, particularly because I've been wanting to use Shaymin-S on that team too, but Mamoswine makes that pretty unfeasible.
The team I've been having the most success with utilizes both Lati twins. I run a Draco Meteor / Surf / HP Fire / Outrage @ Life Orb kamikaze Latios that takes out any and all Steel types and severely cripples guys like Tyranitar even if it costs his life. Then once the field is clear of counters I bring Sub / CM / Recover / Dragon Pulse @ Leftovers Latias to clean up. It's been working really well, the only problem is Mamoswine seems to be EVERYWHERE and has been a real thorn in my side, particularly because I've been wanting to use Shaymin-S on that team too, but Mamoswine makes that pretty unfeasible.
Glad to hear, maybe people won't think speed is everything anymore...although I suppose it'll make things harder to counter since they aren't all running Scarf...can't wait to see how this pans out.
EDIT: Wait, I thought we were supposed to vote on the suspects periodically instead of straight removing them, unless I misinterpreted something. Will we do the same with the rest of the suspects? Also, will this screw over everyone who hasn't used Deoxys-S yet?
EDIT: Wait, I thought we were supposed to vote on the suspects periodically instead of straight removing them, unless I misinterpreted something. Will we do the same with the rest of the suspects? Also, will this screw over everyone who hasn't used Deoxys-S yet?
It probably will. Deoxy-S is quite apparently Uber, so there is no reason to vote.
I've found Yanmega to be a very good sweeper in this hyper fast Metagame. Bug Buzz KOs Yanmega and Deoxy-S (since Speed Boost is a trait, Taunt won't save it), HP Ice gets rid of Skymin and some ScarfChomps. With 104 Def EVs, you can usually beat Scizor as well. Bug Buzz 2HKOes most Bronzong out there, as well as Tyranitar. Helps with the random Scarf Pokemon.
Yanmega is underrated these days.
I've found Yanmega to be a very good sweeper in this hyper fast Metagame. Bug Buzz KOs Yanmega and Deoxy-S (since Speed Boost is a trait, Taunt won't save it), HP Ice gets rid of Skymin and some ScarfChomps. With 104 Def EVs, you can usually beat Scizor as well. Bug Buzz 2HKOes most Bronzong out there, as well as Tyranitar. Helps with the random Scarf Pokemon.
Yanmega is underrated these days.
Thank God. Now time for the fun part: more metagame speculation!
The amount of scarfed revenge killers falls even further than it has been, coinciding with the further burgeoning of stall.
Man, that blows. I hadn't gotten around to making a team for Deoxys yet, so I'm pretty much out of the running for voting, I guess. I just wish we'd had some warning; yeah, I know the OP said that Deoxys was the least important because it was "the most likely uber," but if indeed this would disbar people who haven't used him yet for voting, it's pretty ridiculous seeing as he would be nixed from the ladder four days in to a test that's at least 49 days.
I wouldn't be surprised if that, since Deoxys-S is being taken out of the test this early, that the suspect exp. doesn't apply to it, but we'll just have to wait and see.
Why would Deoxys-S be important to the suspect voting at all if it's been deemed "obviously uber" now?
Thank God, stage 3 is actually playable now.
I was going to test Yanmega when I got my Shoddy Battle fixed, but looks like I was beat.
Why do you need HP Ice to beat Skymin? I'd think Air Slash would do plenty...
Can't blame me for being a bit paranoid, given that Aeolus said that you have to use every suspect to some extent in order to qualify to vote:
Aeolus said:
It probably won't count, but it would suck to be screwed out of voting privileges on a technicality.
Anyway, now that this need to beat Deoxys-E has calmed down, does anyone feel it'll be harder to counter most of the suspects? I mean, I'm assuming they won't all be running Scarf now, except the ultra-paranoid ones. Probably gonna have to revamp my entire team.
I relied on Deoxys-S for its sweeping ability rather than its team support, now I've got to find something else to fill the role of revenging Garchomp, Skymin, Latios, various Scarfers, and pretty much everything in the game :(
When I came up against Dual Screen/SR variants, I didn't even find them to be very broken.
When I came up against Dual Screen/SR variants, I didn't even find them to be very broken.
If it's already banned, then experience with it is obviously no longer relevant.
@WJC: "Annoying" warrants distinction from "effective," I think.
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As for Deoxys-S being banned, hurray! Exactly the change I was hoping for. The metagame should become very diverse and interesting now.
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As for Deoxys-S being banned, hurray! Exactly the change I was hoping for. The metagame should become very diverse and interesting now.
The amount of centralisation around Deoxys was pretty ridiculous, it was literally ruining the metagame. While I think that for fairness' sake, a vote at the end of the first week may have been a better idea, I don't think anyone that's played n the suspect metagame for a decent amount of time has any real complaints about the ban.
Ah well, there goes one of the most important aspects of my team, time to start afresh. I really didn't find Deoxys-s much of a problem as a lead, and that was about the only set I faced. My deoxys was able to OHKO all of the suspects bar Manaphy, and worked really well.
So when Doug gets the ladder reset I'm looking forward to test some new things. I really had Deoxys in the spot as a revenge killer so I needed a new one. Despite not outspeeding some scarfers I have a Pokemon I haven't seen yet even in over 100 battles that I'd love to try out, although it loses to Scizor...