RMT: Monsoon Season (OU Rain)

Sufferage

This is an ingame rain team for Platinum wifi and PBR (not ingame CPU). I'd rather not try for Hidden Power, but I think that would only benefit Kingdra anyways (and I believe Starmie counters Gyarados pretty well, so I'm not too concerned with HP Electric). And while this is OU, I'm not particularly competitive (this is mostly for fun), so I'm not terribly concerned with countering every OU threat. I haven't played competitive in a while, so I'm way out of the loop anyway. Otherwise, rate away!

EDIT: Team has been edited and is now in its final form. I'll still be testing and am open to changes, but this is what I'm going for right now.

MONSOON SEASON

"The Storm Bringer"
Bronzong.png

Rainmaker the BRONZONG @ Damp Rock
(Impish)
Ability~Levitate
252HP/128DEF/128SPD
-Rain Dance
-Explosion
-Stealth Rocks
-Reflect

The big blue (or green?) bell sets up rocks, some extra physical protection, and then gets the rain going. He'll then explode if he needs to, or I'll go straight to a sweeper if it's safe. I'm still a bit nervous about having him as a starter, namely because he's so valuable for the rest of my team (can take quakes aimed at Jolteon and Toxicroak), but with Ludicolo's bulk and his ground resistance, I guess it won't be such an issue if I do lose him.

"The Dancing Pineapple"
Ludicolo.png

Pineapple the LUDICOLO @ Life Orb
(Rash)
Ability~Swift Swim
60HP/252SPA/196SPD
-Surf
-Grass Knot
-Ice Beam
-Focus Punch

Ludicolo is my rain-abusing special sweeper (with FP for Blissey switch-ins). Surf for rainy STAB, Ice Beam for grass types, and GK for the big bulky waters (since Toxicroak can take care of Vaporeon). Considering I already have Kingdra and Toxicroak, I'm not too worried about investing any attack EVs to help Focus Punch hurt Blissey more. And Life Orb > Leftys because I have Jolt with wish support.

"The Rain Keeper"
Scizor.png

Robobug the SCIZOR @ Damp Rock
(Adamant)
Ability~Technician
248HP/252ATK/8SPE
-Bullet Punch
-U-Turn
-Rain Dance
-Roost

Gets rid of Abomasnow and Tyranitar and gets the rain going again. Roost for longevity, and a slow U-Turn to bring out my sweepers without them taking a hit. He is almost completely meant for team support, but he can do some serious damage at the same time.

"The Lightning Bolt"
Jolteon.png

Zap the JOLTEON @ Damp Rock
(Timid)
Ability~Volt Absorb
6HP/252SPA/252SPE
-Thunder
-Rain Dance
-Thunder Wave/Substitute
-Wish/Baton Pass

Jolteon serves a few purposes here. He can come in towards the end for some cleanup with Thunder, get the rain going again quickly, help heal my LOed sweepers, provide some status support (unless there's something better that can go there), and absorb electric attacks--or more importantly, Thunder Waves. I'm also considering passing quick subs with him, but I feel like Wish support is more valuable here. We'll see what happens.

"The Rain Abuser"
Kingdra.png

Neptune the KINGDRA @ Life Orb
(Naughty)
Ability~Swift Swim
252ATK/238SPA/20SPE
-Waterfall
-Hydro Pump
-Draco Meteor
-Rain Dance

Sweeps with Waterfall, plus Hydro Pump and Draco Meteor for physical barriers/dragon types/water resists. Can also set up with rain dance if necessary.

"The Water Wannabe"
ShinyFrontSpritePM.png

Aqua Frog the TOXICROAK @ Life Orb
(Adamant)
Ability~Dry Skin
6HP/252ATK/252SPE
-Poison Jab
-Cross Chop
-Sucker Punch
-Rain Dance

My personal favorite on this team, even if he is pretty fragile. He's my insurance against anyone trying to abuse my own rain, plus he's fun to use. I realize Poison Jab has abysmal coverage, but I like the extra STAB and bonus poisoning from time to time. If I find flying types are too common and giving me trouble, I'll happily switch Poison Jab to Stone Edge. Also another rainmaker, just because he likes it so much (especially with Life Orb). With Life Orb, I'm wondering if I should go with Jolly for nature?
 
So is this team so good that it can't be improved (doubt it), so bad that nobody wants to touch it (hopefully not true), or just being overlooked by everyone?
 
I would personally use Kabutops over Floatzel. In the rain, Kabutops is an absolute monster, plus you could easily get him in after Scizor sets up rain, since Kabutops 8x resists fire attacks in the rain (lol).

Kabutops @ Life Orb
252 Atk / Enough Speed to outspeed certain threats / rest in HP

Aqua Jet
Waterfall
X-scissor
Stone Edge / Superpower

Aqua Jet is great for late game cleaning and finishing off cocky BP Scizor / Mach Punch Apes / ExSpeed Lucario. With Rain + Stab, it has 80BP and priority, so it is definitely worth having.

Waterfall will wreak havoc on just about anything.

X-scissor maims grass types, and is also very useful against Starmie, Latias (which is everywhere in OU), Celebi, Breloom, and the occasional Slowbro.

The choice between Stone Edge and Superpower depends on what you want to hit. Without Stone Edge, Gyarados and Salamence wall the set, plus Stone Edge provides STAB (albeit shaky accuracy STAB). Superpower allows you to wreck T-Tar (who will continually switch in to stop your Rain), Blissey, and most importantly Empoleon who will not only wall Kabutops without Superpower, but non-HP Electric Kingdra as well.

Hope that helps. I haven't tried Toxicroak in rain dance, so I'll have to check that out. He seems like a cool poke.
 
Floatzel wasn't just a sweeper though, he also set up rain and Taunted other leads. My concern with dropping him for an all-out sweeping Kabutops is I now only have 3 rainmakers and no Taunt (not sure how valuable that is in general though).

You seem to be suggesting that I have Scizor set up rain. Would Rain Dance over Roost work on his current set/spread (keeping Leftys I'm assuming)? And would Scizor make a good lead then? My biggest reason for choosing Floatzel was that he's a fast lead who can set up rain quickly, although U-Turning Scizor might do that better. Or maybe Bronzong would work as a suicidal lead. Agh! I should really test this out on Shoddy, but I'd probably get murdered because I haven't done competitive battling in so long!
 
Life Orb is very helpful on Kingdra to get some of those key KOs on things such as Zapdos, so I suggest using Life Orb over Leftovers to give Kingdra even more attacking power. I would also strongly consider replacing Surf with Hydro Pump on Kingdra. The added power of Hydro Pump is really helpful in getting some key KOs in the rain, since you are not running a + Special Attack nature. For example, in the rain, Hydro Pump will always OHKO max HP Zapdos with SR whereas Surf would never, Hydro Pump has a 75% chance to OHKO max HP Metagross with SR whereas Surf has none, and Hydro Pump will always OHKO max HP Scizor whereas Surf falls just short. It's on Pokemon like these, who have much higher physical defense or invest in it much more, that you wouldn't use Waterfall (your main sweeping move in the rain), and so Hydro Pump's additional power is really welcome in getting these crucial KOs.

I would not use Outrage on Kingdra. If you Outrage when Rain is up, that means some Steel-type such as Metagross can come in, and Explode, causing your Rain sweeper to die. Draco Meteor already gives you a Dragon-type move, a powerful one as well. The Pokemon you will be hitting with Outrage will already be hit extremely hard with Waterfall with or without Rain, so Outrage is not the best option there. You could use Rain Dance. Having too much Rain Dance is never a bad thing, considering all of the Sandstorm in OU. It also means you do not have to go to another member of your team to replenish the Rain.

I'd forego Swords Dance on Scizor for Roost, Bullet Punch, and U-Turn coupled with Rain Dance. Not only does this support your team, but it gives you a great resistance on the team with reliable recovery. Also, on Scizor, I'd use Damp Rock. Scizor is actually a very reliable user of Rain Dance thanks to his great typing and defense. Plus it's not very common, and so not expected. Scizor is not so much of a sweeper here, but rather a team supporter. For an EV spread, you could always try the standard 248 HP/252 Attack/8 Speed. You gain durability with the HP EVs in addition to still hitting hard due to the Attack EVs. You also gain the slow U-turn you desire to allow one of your sweepers to come in without getting hurt.

On Floatzel, use Ice Punch, not Ice Fang. Ice Punch is mainly chosen over Ice Fang as Ice Punch has more power then Ice Fang, allowing Floatzel to hit harder. In addition to the above, use Return instead of Taunt now that Bronzong is leading. Waterfall + Return give Floatzel the best coverage possible. You do not really need Taunt, since you want Floatzel to be an all out sweeper, meaning you want the best coverage he can obtain!

On a rain team, you should really be aiming to get your SR up as quickly as possible. Sweepers need the maximum amount of residual damage on the opponent when they have to take them on, and Bronzong simply won't be able to come in early enough to set up SR for your team. Your Floatzel lead is interesting, but how well does it fare against other common leads? I really think it is a bit of a waste of Floatzel's excellent STAB and coverage and sweeping abilities by using it as a lead. I really think your Bronzong could work better in that slot, since you do not want Foatzel, one of your rain sweepers to be vulnerable to dying when leading. The only real other Pokemon that can lead is Bronzong. On Bronzong, do not use Gyro Ball. Just use Rain Dance, Stealth Rock, Reflect and Explosion. A rain team is all about fast paced offense, and you don't have time to be messing around with weak attacks such as Gyro Ball. Bronzong should, recharge your rain, set up rocks, set up a screen, and then get totally out the way to let one of your Swift Swimmers in. If the Floatzel lead is working, keep it. Everything else looks pretty standard. Just recognize your weaknesses and try your best to play around them.

So for your problems, Scarfed Zapdos is a pain for Rain teams, especially after your Rain is gone. My best suggestion is Jolteon, who does well against Zapdos. It will absorb Thunder Waves aimed at your sweepers from Pokemon such as Celebi. Specs Jolteon can work, but a Rain Dance + Thunder Jolteon can also work too since he is fast enough to get your team back on their feet if the rain dies to early. It will also help with Gyarados, as Adamant Gyarados is outsped and OHKOed after a DD. The only place I could see him fitting in would be to replace Starmie with Jolteon. Jolteon is a great Special Sweeper like Starmie, but with the ability to absorb Electric attacks that hurt your team. It can also set up rain and hit with a 100% accurate Thunder which does an ideal amount of Pokemon. Altough not needed, Jolteon can work as a lead. It attracts Ground moves that can be directed to Bronzong, allowing Bronzong to come in, set up what he needs to, and then start sweeping with one of your sweepers!
 
When you say things don't matter because it's ingame, do you mean that most people over wifi don't use those Pokemon? When I say this is an ingame team, I mean that I'm making it ingame to use competitively over wifi and on PBR (not against the CPU). I don't think I made that clear in the first post, so I just want to clarify that :D.

I'd thought about using Jolteon before, actually, and I'm not too sure why I dropped that idea. If I do go with Jolteon, would it be better to pass subs (to further protect against paralysis plus burning and sleep), or pass wishes and support with Light Screen/Thunderwave? I'm personally leaning towards wish to held alleviate Life Orb damage, but like you've said, rain teams are fast paced, and I don't know if switching in and out just for a wish will be worth it.

As useful as Kabutops seems (with great coverage that isn't already on my team), I really want to use Floatzel because he's one of my favorites. I haven't done any testing with the team yet, so I have no idea how Floatzel as a lead will work. I see your point about getting SR up as early as possible, but at the same time, I like having something bulky that I can bring in to replenish the rain, rather than just having Bronzong set it up at the beginning then explode. Plus, if my opponent's lead taunts Bronzong, he's completely useless. Once I've made the team, I'll do some testing and see how Floatzel works as a lead/how common lead taunters are and switch him out if he's not working. Is it worth keeping Taunt on Floatzel if he leads, or is Return still better there?

Another thing I just thought about is if I have Scizor do Damp Rock rain, will I need 3 damp rock rainmakers? In fact, every team member will be making rain if I drop Outrage on Kingdra for more rain. What about going with Thunderbolt (or Thunder without rain) on Jolteon and having pass both subs and wish?

For now, I'll edit in changes to the first post...
 
Hey Bloo! Thanks again for my team rate about a month ago. I'll just put a small rate since everything else on your team seems fine.

Every guy on your team has Rain Dance, which is nice, but unecessary. At least four guys with Rain Dance should be more then enough...six seems like overkill. I agree with Bloo that Scizor with Rain Dance is very unexpected so don't take that off...Bronzong is very good with the Rain as well. That leaves you with four pokes to choose from, and since it's your team I think it should be your call. If you ask me, just remove it from Toxicroak. Five Rain Dancer's should be sufficient in my opinion.
 
Yeah, I thought this was an in-game team since your original introduction said 'This is an ingame rain team for Platinum wifi and PBR', making me assume that you were only using it in-game to fight against CPU. Good thing you cleared that up! I'll answer your questions now Sufferage.

Alright, it is never a bad thing to have too many Pokemon using Rain Dance. You should have as many as possible. You can never have to many Rain Dance users on your team when your entire strategy revolves around the use of Rain Dance. Having multiple Pokemon setting it up makes it easier for your Rain to keep on going. With all the auto-weather inducers running around OU such as Tyranitar, having several Pokémon that can replenish the rain (note that not all of them have to use Damp Rock) is a very valuable thing for all rain teams to have.

About Kingdra. Just because it is meant to be a sweeper does not mean it cannot use Rain Dance to good effect. The rain dancers do not have to be fully support Pokémon such as your Bronzong. Kingdra already has excellent coverage with Hydro Pump/Draco Meteor, allowing Kingdra to use Rain Dance in the last slot Kingdra is bulky enough to take hits, so it can set up Rain Dance reliably. Kingdra gets near perfect coverage with just 2 attacks, and can therefore use its last 2 moveslots for support moves such as Rain Dance, Dragon Dance and Substitute. Substitute can be used to prevent status, Dragon Dance to gain more Attack and Speed once Rain has ran out. Dragon Dance is even useful when rain is up as a STAB Waterfall under Rain is extremely powerful. Kingdra also has Signal Beam, however, you really do not need it as you have Scizor's U-turn and Toxicroak's Posion Jab to hit Celebi quite hard. Celebi also takes quite a bit from Kingdra's Draco Meteor, which does 59-69% to a Max HP Celebi without any Special Defense investment.

Now onto Bronzong and your lead position. We all know that Bronzong is one of the most reliable Pokémon in the game, and almost guarantees to set up Rain Dance unless faced with a Pokemon with Taunt. I have to agree that Bronzong works even better midgame to replenish the rain. Floatzel should not be used as a lead. Like I said before, I really think it is a bit of a waste of Floatzel's excellent STAB coverage and sweeping abilities by using it as a lead. So, you have a couple of options. If you want to keep Bronzong as the lead, I would have to say use Gyro Ball in place of Reflect, so you are not vulnerable to Aerodacty's Taunt. Without replacing any Pokemon on your team, the only other Rain Dance lead I can think of you using is Jolteon. Jolteon as a lead may seem strange, however, it has some potential. Due to Jolteon's amazing Speed stat, it can set up Rain Dance quickly, and Baton Pass out to one of your sweepers, or even pass a Substitute to them. When you're up against a slower lead such as a Metagross, you can start wih a Substitute as they Stealth Rock thinking you'll switch in fear of Earthquake. After that, you can then go to Broznong as they Earthquake, allowing Bronzong to set up Rain Dance, and a screen. You can then go to one of your sweepers and begin causing some damage. Look at this thread for more information on Jolteon as a lead.

If all of those options do not work out, then keep Floatzel as the lead. I guess it has its uses in Taunt to prevent Stealth Rock from getting so early. It is also fast enough to set up Rain Dance too. I just think it is used best as a sweeper rather then a lead.

Now, I never mentioned replacing Floatzel with Kabutops. However, I suggest you keep Floatzel if it is one of your favorites. You should not be forced to change one of your Pokemon, and if you like Floatzel, keep it! Floatzel actually has some cool options. Since it is fast and has great Attack, it can be a very dangerous sweeper under Rain. Even without Rain, it makes for a good sweeper thanks to the excellent 115 BAse Speed stat. It has all of the coverage it needs with Waterfall, Ice Punch and Crunch, and the final move can go to providing another Rain Dancer on your team, or to the excellent set up move Bulk Up. Bulk Up actually works pretty well on Floaztel. Since it has low defenses, it can set up a Bulk Up on a Pokemon that it scares away and become even more dangerous. Taunt is not needed when Floazel is not leading, since it is best to just keep attacking with Floatzel. Basically, if you want the best all around coverage with Floaztel, use an all out attacking set of Waterfall/ Brick Break/Return/Ice Punch. Brick Break is used so you can hit Empoleon, a Pokemon that resist everything in your arsenal. That is the set I suggest you use. Every other Pokemon on your team is setting up Rain Dance, so you can afford to use another attacking move in that slot.
 
Well at this point, I think I can safely start working on the Pokemon seeing as hopefully there shouldn't be any re-breeds for moves needed (except for maybe Jolt depending on whether or not I go with Wish on the set). I'll try the team out on wifi/PBR whenever I can and see how it goes.

Thanks again for all the rates everyone. And if anyone else has any comments or suggestions, feel free. Just keep in mind that I'd like to keep most of the Pokemon if at all possible (at least Toxicroak, Floatzel, Kingdra, and Bronzong).
 
Hey, sorry if this critique is a little too late, but I just saw your RMT today.

Did you notice that you only have three special moves on your entire team? Rain teams are about destroying other teams, and with all that physical offense, you may find it tough to break through a defensive Swampert. I would suggest Ludicolo with the following set:

Ludicolo @ Life Orb/Leftovers
Modest Nature (+Satk -Atk)
60 HP/196 Spd/252 SAtk
-Surf
-Energy Ball/Grass Knot
-Ice Beam
-Rain Dance/Focus Punch (If using FP, go with Rash for your nature)

Note: As you are making this for in-game, I'm not sure if you breed for 31 IVs or not, so the Speed EVs should be adjusted so that it will have 225 Speed at level 100. (This outruns an Adamant Salamence after one DD, so you can OHKO without being touched)
Energy Ball or Grass Knot depends on how hard you want to hit Vaporeon. If it's a problem for your team, go with EB, if not, then GK will be the better option for hitting Gyarados and Ttar.
Focus Punch would be for hitting Blissey, as every team seems to have one these days. If Blissey isn't a threat, go with RD instead.

Although I question your choice of lead, I'm going to let it go, since you seem to like it. I would suggest, however, if you ever battle on Shoddy, give other leads a test.

Good luck with your team!
 
My original team had actually been too special (I'd had Ludicolo, Manaphy, and Rotom-W), and then when I did the revamp it was almost entirely physical (I basically had this team with Swampert over Jolteon), so I've had some trouble finding a good balance. Would you recommend putting that Ludicolo over Floatzel (I'm a Ludicolo fan as well, so I wouldn't mind that switch)?

I'll be trying as hard as possible to get the best IV spreads as possible (at least a 31 in speed), but I was planning on adjusting the EV spreads if need-be on the sweepers.

If I do go with Ludicolo > Floatzel, I'm planning on making Bronzong my lead after all (still nervous about taunting leads, but hopefully they're not as common as I seem to think they are). In that case, I'll definitely go with FP over Rain Dance (is it worth invest any EPs into ATK?). And GK over Energy Ball because Toxicroak should be able to take Vaporeon as long as it doesn't have Ice Beam.
 
Yes, what you suggested is a great idea. Bronzong will work as a lead, and Taunters aren't all that common, just learn how to recognize them. Usually if you see Aerodactyl, Gliscor, Floatzel, or Weavile as a lead, expect to be Taunted.

As for FP on Ludicolo, yes, make it a Rash Nature and move those HP EVs into Attack. With FP, no Blissey is safe!

One last thing that I noticed. Bronzong really shouldn't be investing any EVs into Attack. His purpose is to set up rain and rocks, not take out other Pokemon. I would suggest moving those Atk EVs into either Defense or Special Defense, or maybe split it up. As a majority of leads are physical these days (I can only think of Heatran who's special and Swampert, who would only be able to hit you with special moves), you might want to put all/most of those EVs into Defense.

Happy battling!
 
Attack EV was based on the analysis-suggested EV spread, and I think those EPs were invested into attack to give Explosion more oomph. To be honest, I've been running a Bronzong with Gyro Ball > Explosion in the Battle Frontier and he can barely take enough hits to set up everything unless they're resisted, so maybe it would be worthwhile moving those into the defenses. Will Explosion still be able to KO most things that don't resist it without any attack investment?

I had Floatzel as a lead due to my fear of Taunting, but as I get more experienced (and if it really isn't that common) I guess it shouldn't be much of a problem. And it's not like I don't have enough Rain Dance that I can't switch to someone else to set up the rain. I'll go forward with switching Bronzong to my lead going with Ludicolo over Floatzel (but I'll still miss you, my lifeguarding buddy!).
 
Sufferage said:
Will Explosion still be able to KO most things that don't resist it without any attack investment?
Click to expand...

Yeah, Explosion will be fine. My Bronzong has no Attack EVs, and it still manages to destroy just about everything save Steel/Rock/Ghost types. Actually, Bronzong's Explosion won a game for me once, it KOed a 75% health Blissey ^_^ (of course, it was a crit, lol).

In the end, Bronzong needs to focus on rain and rocks, heck, it usually doesn't even get enough time for an Explosion anyway, so Defense EVs might actually make is Explosion do more, since they might prevent him from dying before he uses it. ^_^
 
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