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np: UU - Here It Goes Again

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Actually Burton, Blaziken just has to be at 43% or less when it comes in, because Superpower + Stealth Rock + Blazed Fire Blast KOes Altaria.

Altaria is really not threatening either, it gives Roserade / Regirock / a lot of other Pokemon nearly free switch-ins, which are often pretty bad news, especially Roserade.

Plus, who says people don't just move up my Blaziken's Attack EVs to 40-50 to outspeed those Milotic who lose enough bulk to be 2HKOed by even a 204 Atk EV'd Superpower.

I never understood that >.>
 
Heysup said:
Altaria is really not threatening either, it gives Roserade / Regirock / a lot of other Pokemon nearly free switch-ins, which are often pretty bad news, especially Roserade.
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Well yeah, that's the main reason for using Aerial Ace on Altaria, not Blaziken. But it does have good situational use for him and others such as Toxicroak, Torterra, Hitmonlee, Poliwrath etc, as well as always breaking SubSeed Shaymin's Subs (obviously not a problem now). I guess it is somewhat useful for Yanmegas too, but I've never faced any with Altaria so I couldn't say.

I guess the biggest mistake you can make when using Altaria defensively is to think that you can always get away with just walling and stalling without having some halfway decent method of retaliation when you need it. That's my opinion anyway; mono-Dragon really sucks off base 70 Attack when there's nothing to hit super-effectively.
 
I agree, and it's the most common mistake when people use Altaria. I should definitely not be getting an "advantage" when you switch Altaria into my Blaziken, which happens a lot :/. I think people should use Slowking over Altaria most of the time.
 
Heysup said:
I agree, and it's the most common mistake when people use Altaria. I should definitely not be getting an "advantage" when you switch Altaria into my Blaziken, which happens a lot :/. I think people should use Slowking over Altaria most of the time.
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Lucky for me, I use both. and of all the times Ive ever faced Blaziken w/ Altaria it has only ever ko'd altaria due to a crit or non standard attack.
 
BurtonEarny said:
Lucky for me, I use both. and of all the times Ive ever faced Blaziken w/ Altaria it has only ever ko'd altaria due to a crit or non standard attack.
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You mean HP Ice? Because they just followed the set on the guide...the guide that's set for OU ><

For some reason, and I don't know why, evidently people are running Electrode as an Anti-lead. It doesn't make a difference for my team, but I guess it does provide a fast taunt to prevent trickscarf Uxie from Tricking or setting up SR. It's just odd to be seeing him outside of Rain Dance teams.
 
Heysup said:
Actually Burton, Blaziken just has to be at 43% or less when it comes in, because Superpower + Stealth Rock + Blazed Fire Blast KOes Altaria.

Altaria is really not threatening either, it gives Roserade / Regirock / a lot of other Pokemon nearly free switch-ins, which are often pretty bad news, especially Roserade.
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I don't know what build of Altaria you have in mind about m'dear but if you bring a Roserade into my Altaria and keep her there you will probably get OHKO'd by an outrage.

Oh and stall moltres is still more broken than any of the actual suspects of course
 
Any sleep talker that resist Fire beats Moltress 1vs1; Milotic being on the best options. Clefable can 1vs1 it with relative ease, I use Facade + Meteor Mash+ Encore Clefable so the inevitable Mismaggy switch-in can suck eggs. Anything faster with SE hit that can survive a Flamethrower is a decent enough check. As long as you keep SR up a Check is probably all your going to need.
 
Uh how does Milotic beat Moltres 1v1 if it gets Toxic'd on the switch? Hint: It won't. Hell, Moltres can even sub on the switch and then Toxic and still beat Milotic.

As long as you keep SR up a Check is probably all your going to need.
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Sounds like over centralization to me.
 
Aerouille said:
I don't know what build of Altaria you have in mind about m'dear but if you bring a Roserade into my Altaria and keep her there you will probably get OHKO'd by an outrage.

Oh and stall moltres is still more broken than any of the actual suspects of course
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Defensive Altarias should never carry outrage. In fact, if it does carry outrage then I just got a free KO on that person's Blaziken counter, leaving them open to get blown to smithereens.
 
Clefable hard counters Moltres. Put SR up, swap in Clefable when Moltres swaps in, encore or just stall out his flamethrower, he's dead. Also, you don't need Meteor Mash on Clefable, really. Mismagius switches in, use encore on the first turn, they're stuck in sub or CM. If they use HP fighting, swap to your own ghost type and threaten the OHKO, or set up (I run a Sub/CM Mismagius as well). Clefable is ridiculously good in this metagame, but I don't think it really had anything to do with Crobat/Honchkrow/Shaymin.
 
I am here to announce to everyone who is actively participating in the project of reforming the under-used tier to a stable metagame... Ahem..

STALLREIN IS BROKEN AS ALL BLUE HELL. PLEASE BAN IT. BAN NOTHING ELSE.

Right from the horses mouth now, you gotsta ban Wailrein XP
 
I've only seen Aerial Ace used on Altaria maybe once or twice, they usually use Dragon Pulse.

Either way, Altaria needs to Roost after being hit by a Superpower, otherwise it won't be able to switch into Blaziken again, so the worst case scenario is that I have a Roserade at 25% with their Altaria at 50-60%, and being unable to Roost due to the incomming Sleep Powder. This again leaves Altaria vulnerable to Blaziken.
 
7ay said:
I am here to announce to everyone who is actively participating in the project of reforming the under-used tier to a stable metagame... Ahem..

STALLREIN IS BROKEN AS ALL BLUE HELL. PLEASE BAN IT. BAN NOTHING ELSE.

Right from the horses mouth now, you gotsta ban Wailrein XP
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Quagsire with Encore, Clefable with Encore, anything with Taunt.

There, done.
 
wow. that's definitely not how you argue that a pokemon isn't broken.

kyogre in ou: quagsire, ludicolo, anything faster with thunder

There, done.

Next time put a little thought into your argument. For instance, Walrein requires hail support which with abomasnow banned you can only get from using snover. And in that case you'd probably be better off determining whether auto hail provided by snover is broken in any other cases besides stallrein. and then if the support it provides outweighs the fact that snover is almost dead weight on any uu team, then snover would be banned, not walrein.
 
BurtonEarny said:
no Stone Edge... its happened
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That may have been me. I know I run Stone Edge on my Mixken because of the common Moltres switch-in. Defensive Moltres with Roost will be able to take HP Electric/Tpunch, and even offensive ones might take it and retaliate with a fatal Air Slash. But Stone Edge is a guaranteed OHKO barring the rare Sash or Charti. Taking out uppity Altaria is icing on the cake.
 
Twist of Fate said:
How do you bring in Roserade on Altaria when most carry Aerial Ace?
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Someone made a good point earlier that Dragon-Type attacks coming off relatively low attack stats is hardly ever substantial. Therefore, a STAB Aerial Ace is seemingly better to use as it hits a lot of what Altaria normally walls supereffectively. I guess there was no reason to quote it I just think that AA on Defensive Altaria should be standard in this current meta.
 
Exclamation Point said:
Someone made a good point earlier that Dragon-Type attacks coming off relatively low attack stats is hardly ever substantial. Therefore, a STAB Aerial Ace is seemingly better to use as it hits a lot of what Altaria normally walls supereffectively. I guess there was no reason to quote it I just think that AA on Defensive Altaria should be standard in this current meta.
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It also breaks missy's subs with no investment. Not all that hard to do I guess, just nice to know.
 
Heysup said:
Defensive Altarias should never carry outrage. In fact, if it does carry outrage then I just got a free KO on that person's Blaziken counter, leaving them open to get blown to smithereens.
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Why not? I use a defencive DD/Outrage Altaria to force switches and scout for Milotic (Whorelotic). How does outrage give you a free kill? I don't think revenge kills are exactly what most of us would consider free, unless you predict it ahead of time and go to an ice punch registeel or something. Besides I'll trade Altaria for Roserade any day, I've been using a specstile and Roserade is kind of a thorn in his side.

Sleep talkers will not do much against a Moltres that decides to run Roar instead of Toxic, now will they. I said she was broken, not unbeatable, I think her counters are just far too obscure, when Encore Clefable is one of the few things in the tier that can reliably force her out (and even then she can only encore 4 times with pressure (pressure affects encore, right?)) then I think that's perhaps a problem~

Also anyone decent who runs Moltres will also run a foresight Top. The argument of "Moltres is bad because of rocks" is indicative to me of inexperience.
 
If it outrages, Roserade can either Sleep Powder, or switch out to Regirock to get a free-KO as Altaria will often still be locked into Outrage.

Either way, Altaria is definitely not getting Roost off if it attacks at all, which means that the opponent will not have anything to switch into Blaziken.
 
I definitely wouldn't risk a 75% sleep powder with the frail Roserade on an Altaria that's going to outrage, especially considering that it's Altaria...who has natural cure
 
Aerouille said:
Also anyone decent who runs Moltres will also run a foresight Top. The argument of "Moltres is bad because of rocks" is indicative to me of inexperience.
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I assume this is directed at me?

Anyways, just a few things.

Moltres running Roar over Toxic is very uncommon and seemingly defeats the purpose of the Stall-Moltres set.

I suppose because the user of Moltres is running Forsieght Hitmontop to keep SR of the field; I to have the capability of saying that I infact am running Forsieght Hitmontop. By saying that "Also anyone decent who runs Moltres will also run a foresight Top." I assume that your implying that entry hazards are never present and therefore there are never entry hazards on the field for the both of us. So by running Roar on Moltres over Toxic makes Moltress more susceptible to attacks from say Milotic who no longer has fear of Toxic.

Every set Clefable runs should beat Moltres 1vs1. Prime examples "Blissey with weight loss", "Toxic Orb Abuse", and "Calm Mind". Clefable was just an example...

Oh right back to my qoute...
The argument of "Moltres is bad because of rocks" is indicative to me of inexperience.
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Such a unnecessary and stupid attack. I said if SR is on the field than a check is all you should need.
 
Lots of things can take a +1 Outrage from a 0 Atk Altaria, so if you Outrage, you're not guaranteed a kill and you're most likely to be killed by a switch in.
 
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