Standard OU team

Rapetime

Hi my name is Daniel and ive been battling competitively for a long time (Since D/P). I battle alot ussually to kill time and just because its fun. For a long time my weakest feature has been team building so I would apprecieate if you guys can give me some tips and advice on the concept of team building. Last night I had the idea of a team built around a SD Lucario sweep so I made an attempt to mold 6 pokemon into a team that seems to fit me best. As a first draft, this is what I have sofar.

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Metagross @ Occa Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP/232 Atk/12 Def/12 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Bullet Punch
- Earthquake
- Meteor Mash

I'm still a bit shakey on what lead would be best on this kind of team but I thought I should try this thing out for a bit. Yep you probably have battled this lead numerous times already only because its a fantasic lead. Pretty much always gets down the rocks and at the same time has to ability to take on other leads on on on. I choose quake over Mash simply because of the way it deals with Heatran,Infernape and other leads. BP is excelent for pokemon like Aerodactly who wants to taunt only to get 2hkoed. And if they choose to use SR then still an easy 2hko while you can set up rocks on your own. Explosion from this thing is beast, kills Swampert, Hippowdon, Heatran, and the list goes on...Ok ive replaced Explosion with Mash so I can handle more leads with the metagross. He can now have something to hit azelf (Other than bulletpunch which is a poor 3hko) which would otherwise beat gross one on one. The also turns metagross into an effecitive hard hitter for lategame instead of your ussually suicude.
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Latias (F) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 78 HP/180 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Trick
- Thunderbolt

Specs Latias. Besides being dominated by blissey she is amazing. Shes here to leave giant holes into my oppenets team. Kills or weakens Swampert, hippowdon, Gliscor, Zapdos, Vapporeon and other pokemon that would realisticly counter Lucario. DracoM and Dpulse is here for that raw power of stab and I went for surf for those Heatrans that link to come in. 2hkos most T-tars and hits other steels like Scizor for neutral damage. Latias also acts as my pursuit bait lurring out Tars and bringing Lucario into his face. Although sometimes I get the urge to bring in Breloom instead of Lucario if I get the pursuit. :) Trick for when I dont really need the power anymore releaving me of the one move restriction. Also cripples Blissey and sole physical attackers. From power to speed, this latias is from what was a heavy hitter to now a revenge killer. Scarfing latias was to solve one of my problems I had which was DDMence and DDdos. With scarf I can come in on dragondance or simply comeout after it has killed one of my pokemon. Took out dragonpulse for bolt just to have a safe attack againts Gyarados.

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Rotom-h @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/136 Def/120 SDef
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Will-o-wisp
- Discharge

Yea the sprite pic was suppose to be Rotom-H just couldnt find one mybad. Anyways, this scarf oven is my true counter to DD Gyarados, SD Luke and SD Scizor. Dos even after DD wait outspeed this oven (Assuming its Adament) so coming in shouldnt be too hard. It can ussually take an unboosted waterfall but not repeatedly since it has no form of recovering at all. Overheat deals with Scizor who can only Bulletpunch and Lucario who really cant hurt Rotom unless its scarfed. With shadowball I feel this rotom is an excelent revenge killer too, since it can take out gengar, Latias (If its weakened) and more with the scarf. Also doesnt hurt to hit a pokemon with neutral Shadowball. Trick is here for the same reason as Latias. *cough cough BLISSEY cough* This oven is also good as a Tyranitar bait giving me a good chance to dance with Luke. The problem Im having with this pokemon is that its attracting to much Heatrans which I dont like. Other than that it seems to get the job done. Ok so um since I went with scarf Latias, I guess theres no need to scarf the oven am I right? Instead, I went with a set thats good for absorbing status (And giving status to an extent). The resting oven can recover on low health increasing his survivability and sleeptalk to still move. This set has MAJOR problems with the Sub variants heatran, well actually, most heatrans if they come in on wisp. Oh yea and wisp is for those Tars that like to come in just to get burned by the oven...Get it?

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Heatran (M) @ Shucca Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 Atk/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Hasty nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Explosion
- Hidden Power [Electric]

Ok so ive tooken out Breloom for good out of this team to bring in a VERY important part of my gameplay. This heatran is to lure out pokemon that will cause problems for Lucario. He should pass for a scarf set and my opponet will bring in something thinking I am forced to switch. For example Zapdos or Gyara coming in on earthpower just to get koed. Fireblast and HPelec (On the DD) respectivley. By lurring out and KOing/weakening Lucarios counters, it makes it alot easier to come in and setup not worrying about having to switch back out due to a counter. This Heatran also makes a fine Rotom switch in, which will also be a problem for a Lucario.

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Gyarados (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 83 HP/252 Atk/175 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Stone Edge
- Taunt

This is my counter to Gliscor who will win againts Luke. This is also prettypunch my backup sweeper. After this one DD this thing has the potential to sweep a whole or part of a team leaving a big opportunity for Lucario. Kills Gliscor, Zapdos, Heatran and Rotom-A aslong as I have more than one DD (Atleast 2). Still has its problem with Skamory though. I tried the Bulky set but it didnt have that insane power that this set has which is more usefull in my eyes. Ok just took out Icefang for taunt in terms of usefullness. Nothing more.

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Lucario (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 6 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Crunch
- Extremespeed

The star of my team. As soon has my counters are eliminated I can bring this thing out to sweep. CloseCombat is my main attack option which is a devestating move expecially after the SD boost. Extreamspeed for the revenge killers like Infernape and starmie. At first I tried I-Punch over crunch but I found that crunch seemed to be more usefull in that. But yea, you guys probably get the idea of this pokemon so im not gonna go any further.
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Lead Metagross, Scarfed Latias, Resttalk Oven, Heatran Lure, DD Gyarados, SD Luke
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The Team in Battle
After I finished the team the first thing I did was ladder. I won some of the times (About 60% of the time) but I think that this team can get better. I know that theres no "Perfect" Team but anything team can improve am I wrong?



CLOSING COMMENTS

Thanks for taking the time to read this. Like I said earlier im Team building is one of my weaker qualities and I would appreciate if I can get some opinions on this team. I would gladly take any suggestions to consideration because my goal is to improve on this team a bit more and with some help I think I can do that. Leave comments on your opinion, things I can change and make better, and just gennaraly how I can become a better Team builder so I can be ready for my next team. Also feel free to PM if you dont want to post.

Team updates

Ok ive took en most of the suggestions that were listed so far. Changes are made in red but I am still open to any suggestions. If theres something that you think would improve on the team please please please post or PM me with your idea. I know that this taem can improve.
 
Nice team, needs some work though.

From experience I know that Metagross with Occa Berry has trouble with Azelf without Meteor Mash. Explosion is too easily predicted, and Rotom forms will switch in on you all day after the lead is gone. Use Meteor Mash, Bullet Punch, SR and Earthquake. Meteor Mash allows Metagross to instead of Suiciding, serve a better purpose late game. If however Explosion serves you better, by all means use it, but Meteor Mash makes beating more leads even easier. The rest of your team is solid, although I sincerely advise your Bulky Dos to use Taunt, giving Lucario no problem switching in because of your opponent's inability to use status or recovery.

Using an Choiced Pokemon means you have to be good at prediction, and this team looks solid enough to decimate a few unprepared teams, but sadly it is very generic. You would think a team this ridiculously balanced would triumph against any threat, but there are lots of outliers becoming familiar to break the normal OU game open (DD Tyranitar for example can run your team right over, if not winning the game, destroying more than half your team (DD, Crunch, Stone Edge, Fire Punch). If you let a BL CM Raikou set up, what would you do to beat it? No longer is the game plan about beating the common Pokemon, you have to be prepared for most everything (which is very hard, but you could give it a try).

To get your reply, lemme list a couple threats that don't occur to some people when they build their teams, and then the best way to defeat them afterwards with your team. Tell me how you might defeat them.

-I named Dragon Dance Tyranitar. Most run Jolly nature (one Dragon Dance puts them at 392 or so, outspeeding your entire team except Rotom, who easily gets OHKO'd by Crunch anyway). How might you beat it? Give me your idea.
-Calm Mind+Substitute Raikou was second. Most Substitute on the first turn, Calm Mind the next. Raikou outspeeds all your Pokemon except Rotom yet again. After a Calm Mind, standard variants take only 28% from a Scarf Heatran's Earth Power. After a Calm Mind (I know from experience), Raikou can OHKO Latias with HP Ice, before Latias can even shoot a Draco Meteor at it. I know the answer, but how might you beat said Raikou?
-Empoleon, a threat most people actually do prepare for. I trust Rotom is ready to take a Torrent+Petaya boosted STAB Surf? How might you beat Empoleon late game after an Agility?
-Dragon Dance Kingdra is the bulkiest Dragon Dancer, no argument of course with only one weakness, access to both spectrums of attacks. How might you beat Kingdra, who with at least 70% health can survive an ExtremeSpeed from your Lucario and OHKO with Waterfall or Surf?
-SpecsJolteon is a hard hitter, most using Shadow Ball on the switch for the best coverage possible. Jolteon OHKOs your fastest POkemon Rotom with Shadow Ball, while outspeeding the rest, and switching out of Lucario. How might you beat it?

Its these types of weaknesses in teams that teams can't afford to have, or lose unnecessary parts to the strategy. After you reply, I will share perhaps overlooked parts of your team that should make that 60% win ratio increase.

(I know, I'm being pompous :naughty:) Your team structure as a whole is great, the only thing that needs to be improved on is more versatility and speed!


METAGROSS FTW
 
DarkCyberElf said:
From experience I know that Metagross with Occa Berry has trouble with Azelf without Meteor Mash. Explosion is too easily predicted, and Rotom forms will switch in on you all day after the lead is gone. Use Meteor Mash, Bullet Punch, SR and Earthquake. Meteor Mash allows Metagross to instead of Suiciding, serve a better purpose late game. If however Explosion serves you better, by all means use it, but Meteor Mash makes beating more leads even easier. The rest of your team is solid, although I sincerely advise your Bulky Dos to use Taunt, giving Lucario no problem switching in because of your opponent's inability to use status or recovery.

Using an Choiced Pokemon means you have to be good at prediction, and this team looks solid enough to decimate a few unprepared teams, but sadly it is very generic. You would think a team this ridiculously balanced would triumph against any threat, but there are lots of outliers becoming familiar to break the normal OU game open (DD Tyranitar for example can run your team right over, if not winning the game, destroying more than half your team (DD, Crunch, Stone Edge, Fire Punch). If you let a BL CM Raikou set up, what would you do to beat it? No longer is the game plan about beating the common Pokemon, you have to be prepared for most everything (which is very hard, but you could give it a try).

To get your reply, lemme list a couple threats that don't occur to some people when they build their teams, and then the best way to defeat them afterwards with your team. Tell me how you might defeat them.

-I named Dragon Dance Tyranitar. Most run Jolly nature (one Dragon Dance puts them at 392 or so, outspeeding your entire team except Rotom, who easily gets OHKO'd by Crunch anyway). How might you beat it? Give me your idea.
-Calm Mind+Substitute Raikou was second. Most Substitute on the first turn, Calm Mind the next. Raikou outspeeds all your Pokemon except Rotom yet again. After a Calm Mind, standard variants take only 28% from a Scarf Heatran's Earth Power. After a Calm Mind (I know from experience), Raikou can OHKO Latias with HP Ice, before Latias can even shoot a Draco Meteor at it. I know the answer, but how might you beat said Raikou?
-Empoleon, a threat most people actually do prepare for. I trust Rotom is ready to take a Torrent+Petaya boosted STAB Surf? How might you beat Empoleon late game after an Agility?
-Dragon Dance Kingdra is the bulkiest Dragon Dancer, no argument of course with only one weakness, access to both spectrums of attacks. How might you beat Kingdra, who with at least 70% health can survive an ExtremeSpeed from your Lucario and OHKO with Waterfall or Surf?
-SpecsJolteon is a hard hitter, most using Shadow Ball on the switch for the best coverage possible. Jolteon OHKOs your fastest POkemon Rotom with Shadow Ball, while outspeeding the rest, and switching out of Lucario. How might you beat it?

Its these types of weaknesses in teams that teams can't afford to have, or lose unnecessary parts to the strategy. After you reply, I will share perhaps overlooked parts of your team that should make that 60% win ratio increase.

(I know, I'm being pompous :naughty:) Your team structure as a whole is great, the only thing that needs to be improved on is more versatility and speed!
Click to expand...

Wow I didnt notice that there was such a swarm of pokemon that can run through this team no problem. Before I had breloom in there there was Jirachi but then after I got swept by DDTar I through in breloom thinking it was gonna solve my problem. Breloom counters Tar nicely but still dies to DD. Maybe I should think less "Counters" and more "ok, how can I stop this sweep".

Haha yea you really showed me, I think its cool how you were able to automatically detect the diffrent threats to my team, I should think about that next time. I really really want to improve on this team and also my team building skills.

Also Im gonna try the Mash over Explosion set on Metagross and see how it works
 
DarkCyberElf said:
From experience I know that Metagross with Occa Berry has trouble with Azelf without Meteor Mash. Explosion is too easily predicted, and Rotom forms will switch in on you all day after the lead is gone. Use Meteor Mash, Bullet Punch, SR and Earthquake. Meteor Mash allows Metagross to instead of Suiciding, serve a better purpose late game. If however Explosion serves you better, by all means use it, but Meteor Mash makes beating more leads even easier. The rest of your team is solid, although I sincerely advise your Bulky Dos to use Taunt, giving Lucario no problem switching in because of your opponent's inability to use status or recovery.

Using an Choiced Pokemon means you have to be good at prediction, and this team looks solid enough to decimate a few unprepared teams, but sadly it is very generic. You would think a team this ridiculously balanced would triumph against any threat, but there are lots of outliers becoming familiar to break the normal OU game open (DD Tyranitar for example can run your team right over, if not winning the game, destroying more than half your team (DD, Crunch, Stone Edge, Fire Punch). If you let a BL CM Raikou set up, what would you do to beat it? No longer is the game plan about beating the common Pokemon, you have to be prepared for most everything (which is very hard, but you could give it a try).

To get your reply, lemme list a couple threats that don't occur to some people when they build their teams, and then the best way to defeat them afterwards with your team. Tell me how you might defeat them.

-I named Dragon Dance Tyranitar. Most run Jolly nature (one Dragon Dance puts them at 392 or so, outspeeding your entire team except Rotom, who easily gets OHKO'd by Crunch anyway). How might you beat it? Give me your idea.
-Calm Mind+Substitute Raikou was second. Most Substitute on the first turn, Calm Mind the next. Raikou outspeeds all your Pokemon except Rotom yet again. After a Calm Mind, standard variants take only 28% from a Scarf Heatran's Earth Power. After a Calm Mind (I know from experience), Raikou can OHKO Latias with HP Ice, before Latias can even shoot a Draco Meteor at it. I know the answer, but how might you beat said Raikou?
-Empoleon, a threat most people actually do prepare for. I trust Rotom is ready to take a Torrent+Petaya boosted STAB Surf? How might you beat Empoleon late game after an Agility?
-Dragon Dance Kingdra is the bulkiest Dragon Dancer, no argument of course with only one weakness, access to both spectrums of attacks. How might you beat Kingdra, who with at least 70% health can survive an ExtremeSpeed from your Lucario and OHKO with Waterfall or Surf?
-SpecsJolteon is a hard hitter, most using Shadow Ball on the switch for the best coverage possible. Jolteon OHKOs your fastest POkemon Rotom with Shadow Ball, while outspeeding the rest, and switching out of Lucario. How might you beat it?

Its these types of weaknesses in teams that teams can't afford to have, or lose unnecessary parts to the strategy. After you reply, I will share perhaps overlooked parts of your team that should make that 60% win ratio increase.

(I know, I'm being pompous :naughty:) Your team structure as a whole is great, the only thing that needs to be improved on is more versatility and speed!
Click to expand...

I dont know how im gonna be able to take all those treats into consideration while still maintaining my Team stratigy
 
Hi, welcome to Smogon! :)

While the rest of the team looks relatively solid, I'm not quite sold on your Metagross lead set. Heres a different one:

Metagross @ Occa Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Hp / 236 Atk / 12 Def / 8 Spe
Adamant nature (+Attack, -Special Attack)
~ Stealth Rock
~ Meteor Mash / Earthquake
~ Bullet Punch
~ Explosion / Zen Headbutt

The main purpose of this set is to set up Stealth Rock as early as possible while dealing with the most common leads in today's metagame. Metagross is one of the most reliable leads due to its great typing and defenses, and will almost guarantee that you get Stealth Rock up near the beginning of a match.

Metagross functions so well as a lead because very few of the common leads can OHKO it. With its great bulk, it is not OHKOed by Earthquake from the likes of Hippowdon and Swampert, and by running an Occa Berry, Metagross can survive in the face of Fire-types and live to hit them back. Bullet Punch is essential to the set in that it allows Metagross to get rid of Focus Sash users such as Azelf and Aerodactyl without having to take another hit. The choice between Earthquake and Meteor Mash as Metagross' other attacking option comes down to whether you want it to serve as an efficient suicide lead, or if you plan on attempting a sweep with it later on. For players who want it to simply beat as many of the other common leads as possible, Earthquake is the preferable choice, as it allows you to hit Infernape, Heatran, Jirachi, and other Metagross for super effective damage. On the other hand, Meteor Mash means you have a much stronger STAB attack, but won't be able to hit as large a variety of Pokemon for neutral damage. Meteor Mash also leaves you a lot more vulnerable to Infernape and Heatran, and you are almost always forced to switch when faced with them. Metagross' Explosion is just a devastating move, and any lead that is not a Ghost-type will lose a big chunk of their health. The defensive behemoth that is Hippowdon has a high chance of being OHKOed, and Explosion also does up to 87% damage to the standard Bronzong lead. Zen Headbutt is an option to hit with some more strong STAB, but it is generally inferior to Explosion.

The choice of item on Lead Gross is really dependent on what you need it to deal with. Occa Berry is the preferred item for dealing with the aforementioned Fire-types, but it is only of real use if you are also running Earthquake as well in order to do something back to them. With the given EV spread, Metagross will never be OHKOed by a Modest Life Orb Heatran's Fire Blast taking Occa Berry into account. If you choose to forego Earthquake for Meteor Mash, other Berries, such as Lum and Shuca, are viable choices as well. Lum Berry allows Metagross to take on Roserade, Yanmega, and Gengar leads, and also helps deal with the rare Hypnosis from Bronzong. It can also be very useful in healing Metagross of random burns and paralysis. Shuca Berry allows Metagross to take Earthquakes easier, but with its impressive Defense, they won't be OHKOing even without it.

In the leading position, Metagross is likely to come up against several Pokémon which can cause it problems. Heatran can survive Metagross' Earthquake with Focus Sash or Shuca Berry and threaten with a powerful STAB Fire attack of its own. As it is faster, you will be 2HKOed before you 2HKO in return unless it decides to set up Stealth Rock on the first turn. Having a bulky Water-type to switch to is helpful here. Swampert and Hippowdon are also common leads that aren't worried by Metagross in the slightest. Celebi and Latias in particular are great Pokemon to switch to, as previously mentioned. Latias does shine, however, for its ability to also take on Heatran effectively, something which Celebi cannot boast. Interestingly, Bronzong is also more of a pain than usual for Metagross with this set. Although it can't do much damage to you without Earthquake, it can also potentially put you to sleep with Hypnosis while you can't really do a whole lot back unless it is Heatproof. Even then, you need to risk a turn in order to find out, and that will more often than not be for naught.

Choice Specs Latias makes an excellent partner for a leading Metagross, as it can switch in easily on Heatran, Swampert and Hippowdon before proceeding to fire boosted Draco Meteors and Surfs. It is also a great Pokémon to go to against lead Infernape should you want to save your Occa Berry for later use, or if you had decided not to use one at all. Bulky Sleep Talking Rotom-formes work particularly well with this set, as they can not only take Hypnosis and Sleep Powder from other leads, but also carry a handy immunity to Explosion. Anyway, this looks similar to the lead you have now, but its actaully quite different.

Good luck! :)
 
DarkCyberElf said:
The rest of your team is solid, although I sincerely advise your Bulky Dos to use Taunt, giving Lucario no problem switching in because of your opponent's inability to use status or recovery.
Click to expand...

Should I give him a bulky EV spread aswell or should I just slap taunt on him???
 
snorlaxxz said:
Hi, welcome to Smogon! :)

While the rest of the team looks relatively solid, I'm not quite sold on your Metagross lead set. Heres a different one:

Metagross @ Occa Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Hp / 236 Atk / 12 Def / 8 Spe
Adamant nature (+Attack, -Special Attack)
~ Stealth Rock
~ Meteor Mash / Earthquake
~ Bullet Punch
~ Explosion / Zen Headbutt
Click to expand...

I hate the fact of having to choose between Mash and EQ as they both ko there own leads. Id rather go for both just to increase coverage. Ive tried explosion but as elf stated its way too predictable. And im not a big fan of the ZenHB idea but thanks anyways
 
Your team is very badly hurt by DDMence and DDTar to a certain extent. Actually, they can probably clean you. Lucario is decent at best for cleaning Salamence out, but the point is that they will leave a serious dent.

A very easy way to adjust this is to switch Specs with a Scarf for Latias. Virtually all your revenging needs are handled now. 4 Def/252 SpA/252 Spd Timid running Draco Meteor/Surf/Thunderbolt/Trick. You can trick off your Scarf when facing a stall team or when facing a stat booster like Curselax or something, and the 3 moves provide awesome coverage.

EDIT: DDTar is still a pretty serious issue. It would be nice if you could keep Metagross alive so he can use BP, and Latias can finish off with a Scarf Surf. You could theoretically put Mach Punch on Breloom somewhere.

Gotta worry about Pursuit, but Pursuit is nice set up bait for Lucario or Breloom.

With a scarf on Latias, you can change Rotom to something else. I'm personally a big fan of the boosting sweeper:

Rotom @ Leftovers
Levitate
64 HP/212 Spd/232 SpA
Timid
-Sub
-Charge Beam
-Shadow Ball
-HP Fighting

Pretty darn effective set, although I personally like a little more bulk.

Finally, your Gyarados EVs are a little messed up: it should be 84 HP/252 Atk/176 Spd.

Honestly though, I prefer max/max. If you are really up to it, you can try running Jolly, and pull of neat kills on Jolteon and Scarftran when they try to revenge.

I'll come back later, I g2g.
 
chenman333 said:
Your team is very badly hurt by DDMence and DDTar to a certain extent. Actually, they can probably clean you. Lucario is decent at best for cleaning Salamence out, but the point is that they will leave a serious dent.

A very easy way to adjust this is to switch Specs with a Scarf for Latias. Virtually all your revenging needs are handled now. 4 Def/252 SpA/252 Spd Timid running Draco Meteor/Surf/Thunderbolt/Trick. You can trick off your Scarf when facing a stall team or when facing a stat booster like Curselax or something, and the 3 moves provide awesome coverage.

EDIT: DDTar is still a pretty serious issue. It would be nice if you could keep Metagross alive so he can use BP, and Latias can finish off with a Scarf Surf. You could theoretically put Mach Punch on Breloom somewhere.

Gotta worry about Pursuit, but Pursuit is nice set up bait for Lucario or Breloom.

With a scarf on Latias, you can change Rotom to something else. I'm personally a big fan of the boosting sweeper:

Rotom @ Leftovers
Levitate
64 HP/212 Spd/232 SpA
Timid
-Sub
-Charge Beam
-Shadow Ball
-HP Fighting

Pretty darn effective set, although I personally like a little more bulk.

Finally, your Gyarados EVs are a little messed up: it should be 84 HP/252 Atk/176 Spd.

Honestly though, I prefer max/max. If you are really up to it, you can try running Jolly, and pull of neat kills on Jolteon and Scarftran when they try to revenge.

I'll come back later, I g2g.
Click to expand...

Wow this really really helped alot thanks. I never liked the idea of scarfed latias but if you think about it works nicely on this team thanks for the idea.

So yea if im running Scarf latias theres really no need for scarf oven. I looked at that sub booster set but im not really conviced. One set I really like is the resttalker.

Rotom @ Leftovers
Levitate
252HP/120DEF/136SPD(Specialdefence)
Bold
-Rest
-Sleeptalker
-Discharge
-Willowisp

Would this fit good in my team? If not ill re-consider.

And um the Gyra spread you suggested is like one point diffrent then mine should it really matter? The EVs I gave it in speed still outspeeds 394 at one DD.

Thanks again for the help
 
Overall, this seems like a well constructed team, and it is obvious you put effort into both the team and the presentation, so I applaud you for that.

Nevertheless, onto the team...

It appears that the main objective of this team is to pave the way for a late game sweep with Lucario, which is a fine idea and all, but I don't think this team does a great job of luring out Lucario's main counters at all. However, it is obvious that you understand how to get Lucario to come in safely, which is the first big step to preparing a sweep for him.

Now, the first thing to consider here is what Pokémon are able to prevent a Lucario sweep. The list, unfortunately, is not short. From the top of my head, the biggest problems to look out for will be Rotom-A, Gliscor, Salamence, Gyarados, and Scarfed Heatran. As you posted in your RMT, you do have knowledge of what counters Lucario, which is great! However, on a fast paced offensive team, I think using a lure will work best for you.

In case you don't know what a lure is, a lure is a Pokémon designed to "lure" in a Pokémon and knock it out through surprise value. Based on this definition, I am going to suggest that you run an Expert Belt Heatran over your current Breloom, as Breloom generally slows down an offensive team and causes you to lose the momentum.

The Heatran set I want you to try out in particular is:

Heatran @ Expert Belt
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature (+Spe, -Def)
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Explosion
- Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Electric

I recommend Heatran because most people will expect Heatran to be running Choice Scarf when it is not used as a lead, which allows you to kill Pokémon you couldn't kill before with surprise value. Generally, to use this Heatran, who will want to switch it into something that is weak to Fire, such as Scizor. By doing this, you can easily lure out problematic Pokémon like Gyarados. From there, it is likely the opponent will try to set up, which means you can either get a clean OHKO with Explosion or the Hidden Power of your choice. Heatran also makes a great initial switch-in into Rotom-A, and I recommend a Hasty nature over Naive so you don't take as much damage from special attacks, although you are welcome to run Timid if you don't want to lower either defense. On an additional note, Heatran provides an important Ghost-type resist to your team, which you didn't have before.

Now, I'm also going to recommend some small changes you may want to consider, which I think will ultimately improve your team.

First, you will definitely want to change your Rotom-H's nature to Timid. Running a Timid Nature allows you to outspeed Jolly Gyarados and SubPetaya Empoleon, two big threats to your team otherwise. I'm not sure if you noticed this, but Jolly Dragon Dance Gyarados could actually run straight through your team, so it is vital that you can at least check it with Rotom-H. ;)

The second major thing I recommend is that you change Latias to a different set. My main concern with your current set is that Latias will get worn down quickly from repeated switch-ins, and from the looks of your team, you will want Latias around to be able to counter Heatran and Infernape.

In particular, I want you to test this set:

Latias @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Thunderbolt
- Recover

This set works just as well as the Choice Specs set, except it comes with the added bonus of being able to heal off any damage it may have taken. When using this Latias, it is generally a good idea to use Surf the first time around, since many people immediately switch in Scizor and Tyranitar whenever they see Latias, and Surf cleanly 2HKOes both (at least when they are running the standard EV spread) with Stealth Rock up.

As for your Metagross, I usually find Meteor Mash over Explosion to be much more helpful. I've never been in a situation where I would have actually preferred Explosion over the ability to 2HKO Azelf leads, which Bullet Punch fails to do. I'm going to suggest you definitely drop Explosion in favor of Meteor Mash for now, and I think you'll enjoy having the ability to beat more leads.

Third, I think that changing Gyarados to an Adamant nature may actually benefit your team more than by using a Jolly nature. Mainly, a Jolly nature is used so you outspeed Heatran, but think about it. Wouldn't it be better if it DID Explode on Gyarados? That way, you can switch in Latias or Rotom to hopefully get killed by a Dark-type attack, which will pretty much pave the way for Lucario to set up. The point is sorta moot though, so it's up to you here. Just my thought.

By the way, if using an Adamant nature, change Gyarados's EV spread to max Attack and whatever Speed is required to outspeed base 115's and below. I think it's 168 Speed EVs, but I'm not sure. Dump the rest in HP.

As always, you could run Bullet Punch on Lucario if you wanted so Gengar doesn't cause problems late-game, but ExtremeSpeed is helpful against Flygon and offensive Zapdos, so it's up to you.

I hope my changes will prove to be of help to you. If you have any more questions, feel free to PM me. Good luck!
 
very nice team you have there! nice presentation as well, it's really nice to see newer users not being dumbfucks!! so i mean your team looks to get a lucario sweep, so you must have the proper tools to do that. you gotta lure out all the stuff that can beat sdluke, and destroy them, or at least weaken them up so you can ko them next time around when your lucario comes around. some things you need to beat are scarftran, scarfrachi, scarfzone, scarftom, gliscor, zapdos, salamence, and gyarados. well, when i say beat you either need a good portion of your team to beat them straight up, or lure them out and ko them by surprise. something amazing to have on a lucario sweep team is shuca berry heatran. it beats a lot of things that counter lucario, as well as luring a bunch of them out. i'd suggest putting it over latias, as you already have pursuit bait in the form of rotom. spamming earth power brings out zapdos, salamence, rotom, gliscor, and gyarados-of which you can annihilate zapdos, rotom, and gliscor. shucatran give you some nice power on the special side with his base 130 special attack, as well as a base 120 power STAB move. overall, i believe heatran is a fantastic choice for any team that is attempting to lucario sweep, shucatran is especially suited to this job. the only problem is the last moveslot. the two options are explosion and taunt. taunt completely shuts down a lot of walls that could otherwise prove troublesome. blissey and the like are completely shut down, and you can slowly chip away at their health. explosion, on the other hand, nails a lot of things that can normally switch into heatran (latias, blissey, bulky waters, etc). i am going to suggest explosion here, it provides a nice check against things like crocune and mono attack refresh latias. blissey is already completely shut down by the rest of your team, and explosion is still an ohko after stealth rocks i believe.. here is the spread that i will suggest:

heatran @ shuca berry
naive 252 spa / 252 spe / 4 hp

~ fire blast
~ earth power
~ dragon pulse
~ explosion / taunt

i suggest making your rotom timid to beat a boatload of threats with the scarf intact.

i also want to suggest a change in breloom set. you have a fast paced team, attempting to overwhelm the opponent, until you get a chance to get your lucario in and use swords dance. hopefully by the time he uses swords dance, the opponent will be so weakened that he will be completely swept by him. so breloom is looking to, ideally, sleep something threatening to lucario (gliscor, salamence, gyarados, and zapdos are all common switch ins into breloom), then hit something hard, weakening up even more. to do this, i suggest a set that i believe husk devised. it 2hkoes things like latias and really hurts zapdos and the like with facade. superpower isnt that much lower in base power than focus punch, and you dont even need a sub to use it, which can be very useful in quite a few situations. seed bomb rounds off the set as a solid stab that really hurts those bulky waters, as well as those pesky rotom who come in hoping to be facing a spore/leech seed / focus punch / substitute style of breloom. basically, breloom weakens the opponent's fighting type counters, a very good thing indeed. the set i am referring to is this.

breloom @ toxic orb
adamant 252 spe / 252 atk / 4 def

~ facade
~ superpower
~ seed bomb
~ spore

gl with your team, hope i helped!
 
Bad Ass said:
very nice team you have there! nice presentation as well, it's really nice to see newer users not being dumbfucks!! so i mean your team looks to get a lucario sweep, so you must have the proper tools to do that. you gotta lure out all the stuff that can beat sdluke, and destroy them, or at least weaken them up so you can ko them next time around when your lucario comes around. some things you need to beat are scarftran, scarfrachi, scarfzone, scarftom, gliscor, zapdos, salamence, and gyarados. well, when i say beat you either need a good portion of your team to beat them straight up, or lure them out and ko them by surprise. something amazing to have on a lucario sweep team is shuca berry heatran. it beats a lot of things that counter lucario, as well as luring a bunch of them out. i'd suggest putting it over latias, as you already have pursuit bait in the form of rotom. spamming earth power brings out zapdos, salamence, rotom, gliscor, and gyarados-of which you can annihilate zapdos, rotom, and gliscor. shucatran give you some nice power on the special side with his base 130 special attack, as well as a base 120 power STAB move. overall, i believe heatran is a fantastic choice for any team that is attempting to lucario sweep, shucatran is especially suited to this job. the only problem is the last moveslot. the two options are explosion and taunt. taunt completely shuts down a lot of walls that could otherwise prove troublesome. blissey and the like are completely shut down, and you can slowly chip away at their health. explosion, on the other hand, nails a lot of things that can normally switch into heatran (latias, blissey, bulky waters, etc). i am going to suggest explosion here, it provides a nice check against things like crocune and mono attack refresh latias. blissey is already completely shut down by the rest of your team, and explosion is still an ohko after stealth rocks i believe.. here is the spread that i will suggest:

heatran @ shuca berry
naive 252 spa / 252 spe / 4 hp

~ fire blast
~ earth power
~ dragon pulse
~ explosion / taunt

i suggest making your rotom timid to beat a boatload of threats with the scarf intact.

i also want to suggest a change in breloom set. you have a fast paced team, attempting to overwhelm the opponent, until you get a chance to get your lucario in and use swords dance. hopefully by the time he uses swords dance, the opponent will be so weakened that he will be completely swept by him. so breloom is looking to, ideally, sleep something threatening to lucario (gliscor, salamence, gyarados, and zapdos are all common switch ins into breloom), then hit something hard, weakening up even more. to do this, i suggest a set that i believe husk devised. it 2hkoes things like latias and really hurts zapdos and the like with facade. superpower isnt that much lower in base power than focus punch, and you dont even need a sub to use it, which can be very useful in quite a few situations. seed bomb rounds off the set as a solid stab that really hurts those bulky waters, as well as those pesky rotom who come in hoping to be facing a spore/leech seed / focus punch / substitute style of breloom. basically, breloom weakens the opponent's fighting type counters, a very good thing indeed. the set i am referring to is this.

breloom @ toxic orb
adamant 252 spe / 252 atk / 4 def

~ facade
~ superpower
~ seed bomb
~ spore

gl with your team, hope i helped!
Click to expand...

I am for sure gonna try that breloom out, looks sweet. Also i have been testing out that same heatran but instead with expertbelt and HPelec over dragonpulse.
 
Rapetime said:
I am for sure gonna try that breloom out, looks sweet. Also i have been testing out that same heatran but instead with expertbelt and HPelec over dragonpulse.
Click to expand...

I'd go with the berry over expert belt. Most things you're hitting super effectively (primarily with Fire Blast) will be 1hko'd regardless if you're using expert belt or not. I'd also go with Dragon Pulse over HP Electric, as HP Electric is used for Gyarados, which you will not be outspeeding and after a DD he will kill you with ease. If you predict it right, Dragon Pulse can be used much more effectively in denting Dragons and you also don't run the risk of doing zero damage to Swampert.

Shuca Berry is used over Expert Belt as Expert Belt doesn't help very much (as stated) and it allows you to live an Earth Power from another Heatran and then 1hko it back if they don't have it (AKA Scarftran)
 
Class said:
I'd go with the berry over expert belt. Most things you're hitting super effectively (primarily with Fire Blast) will be 1hko'd regardless if you're using expert belt or not. I'd also go with Dragon Pulse over HP Electric, as HP Electric is used for Gyarados, which you will not be outspeeding and after a DD he will kill you with ease. If you predict it right, Dragon Pulse can be used much more effectively in denting Dragons and you also don't run the risk of doing zero damage to Swampert.

Shuca Berry is used over Expert Belt as Expert Belt doesn't help very much (as stated) and it allows you to live an Earth Power from another Heatran and then 1hko it back if they don't have it (AKA Scarftran)
Click to expand...

Yea but I can kill a gyarados with HPelec if it sets up thinking im gonna switch. Like if it comes in on earthpower it might assume that I am scarfed and just go for the DD while I hit him with HPelec and KO. Although he has to switch in on me for it to work.

But im convinced about the Berry im gonna try that out
 
This is just a minor nitpick, but Choice Scarf Latias really needs a Timid Nature. If you use a Modest Nature, you will be unable to outspeed +1 Naive Salamence after a Dragon Dance, and that's sure as hell not good.
 
Flashstorm1 said:
This is just a minor nitpick, but Choice Scarf Latias really needs a Timid Nature. If you use a Modest Nature, you will be unable to outspeed +1 Naive Salamence after a Dragon Dance, and that's sure as hell not good.
Click to expand...

Ok ill change that right away to see how it fits. But I thought most DDmence are adament?

Ok I gave her a timid nature with EVs to outspeed the naive DDmence and dumped the remaining into HP
 
I didn't see the previous versions but I can see why it may lose - it loses to common offensive teams. You're luke weak because you are dependant on LO gyara - something that cannot get in a lot of switch ins at all.

Scarfed latias is something that is easy to fit on a team but has natural weaknesses. It's pursuit bait. A simple mence, scizor combo sweeps you, and this isn't a rare combo by any stretch of the imagination.

Basically I would try to beat stall using taunt gyara and stone edge luke. The plan is basically to taunt stone edge and taunt the rotom while sacrificing gyara. Force rotom to switch out, then if luke can get an SD up it could be gg as their stone edge luke counter is dead. From there you can change heatran to a scarfed variant which would help you greatly against offence. It would at least give you a good revenge killer for luke.

After that, you can switch latias to another version if you want. Scarf does have its advantages though (trick against stall, revenge killer for offence, which is useful as long as you stay away). Flygon may be a good replacement for latias as it has the speed to revenge kill gengar, gyara, DD mence etc. without the pursuit weak. May be a good idea to switch gross into a water resist (eg. SR celebi) afterwards.

Eh hope I've helped. Give things a whirl.
 
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