New and "creative" moveset/EV spread thread. Mk. 4

[blasphemy1]

You can just sub up on blisey as you will always out speed any that don't invest a lot in their speed (which only 2.3% invest any in their speed) and also why would anyone dry pass away from a Dragonite that can use that turn to sub or use a focus punch that can basically nueter any normal switch to Dragonite ( and this is a set that salamence can't do).
Also jolteon (and espeon are both faster than dragonite and therfore dry passing out would either leave you with a sub against a bliss or a bliss that had taken a very powerful Focus punch.

They can just Ice Beam you, or Seismic Toss, both are quite common. You have this entire situation messed up. Dry passing is simply Baton Passing as a scouting tool. You don't pass anything, you just use it because it allows you to see what they switched in(moves occur AFTER switches). So, Jolteon or Espeon are out, you Baton Pass immediately, if they send in Blissey you can send in Dragonite for the OHKO with Superpower. You can't always assume that Dragonite will be already switched in.

On top of that, just because it is a set Salamence can't do doesn't give a reason to use it. It is still largely outclassed by Tyraniboah. I really don't know how I can be more clear.

 

[xdevo13]

You also can't assume that he isn't in.
I know how to use bry passing, Ive used succesfully before.
This set isn't going to counter Blissey and most smart people would switch out their Blissey because of the superpower threat which said turn is used to put a sub. The second time Blissey might used ice beam but with his speed she only hits a sub.
and another advantage this has is after you use Superpower is that any thing not weak to his moves and/or has decent defences can switch in and use the -1 attack and defence drop for a free set-up.
and also when do you see Espeon any more?

 

[blasphemy1]

You also can't assume that he isn't in.
I know how to use bry passing, Ive used succesfully before.
This set isn't going to counter Blissey and most smart people would switch out their Blissey because of the superpower threat which said turn is used to put a sub. The second time Blissey might used ice beam but with his speed she only hits a sub.
and another advantage this has is after you use Superpower is that any thing not weak to his moves and/or has decent defences can switch in and use the -1 attack and defence drop for a free set-up.
and also when do you see Espeon any more?

Given the hyper-offensive state of the metagame atm, it is safer to assume Dragonite isn't in play, as his job is wall-breaking(for both sets), it is much more likely my Jolteon or Espeon are in. BTW, I don't switch Blissey out of any dragon. If they Superpower me, oh well, easier to revenge kill, hell of a lot better than if they DD as I switch out. I stay in and Ice Beam, and most people that use counter-counter prediction, will do it as well.

 

[xdevo13]

If you sacrifice Blissey then your team would open for a speical sweep
revenge killing only goes so far
ALso If they did leave blissey in then I would have only wasted a Sub not his entire 100% health.
Counter counter prediction starts an endless cycle of prediction that always turns bad for the over predictor

 

[franky]

Went on shoddy today and tried out some gimmicks and I have one that worked pretty good (surprisingly).

Lucario - Sleep Talk
@ Leftovers
Inner Focus
Careful (SpD+ / SpA-)
252 HP / 6 Def / 135 SpD / 115 Spe

- Crunch / Bulk Up
- Brick Break
- Sleep Talk
- Rest

This set is for the fun which lets me take advantage of its unique typing. The EVs is simple and its to maximize its bulk from the Special side where most of Dark-type attacks are used. 115 Spe gives me enough to outspeed Jolly Tyranitar, going for the kill before getting the boost. It lets you brawl with Rotom who lack a recovery move. Use Rest to cure your status and fire off atacks with Sleep Talk. Crunch / Brick Break for incredible coverage while Bulk Up could be an alternative (although I never tried it yet).

 

[chenman333]

^^^ Why the hell do you have EVs with a 5 at the end?....

 

[d2m]

Went on shoddy today and tried out some gimmicks and I have one that worked pretty good (surprisingly).

Lucario - Sleep Talk
@ Leftovers
Inner Focus
Careful (SpD+ / SpA-)
252 HP / 6 Def / 135 SpD / 115 Spe

- Crunch / Bulk Up
- Brick Break
- Sleep Talk
- Rest

This set is for the fun which lets me take advantage of its unique typing. The EVs is simple and its to maximize its bulk from the Special side where most of Dark-type attacks are used. 115 Spe gives me enough to outspeed Jolly Tyranitar, going for the kill before getting the boost. It lets you brawl with Rotom who lack a recovery move. Use Rest to cure your status and fire off atacks with Sleep Talk. Crunch / Brick Break for incredible coverage while Bulk Up could be an alternative (although I never tried it yet).

3 parts of this are wrong:

1: EVs should be in multiples of 4.
2: The most common Dark Type attacks in the OU metagame are Crunch and Pursuit, both physical.
3: Dropping Crunch for Bulk Up leaves you walled by ghosts.

 

[Snorlaxe]

Heres a good one that I made (works well for me anyway):

Its Super Effective!
Dragonite @ White Herb
252 Hp / 4 Atk / 252 SpA
Lax nature (+Defense, -Speed)
~ Draco Meteor
~ Superpower
~ Fire Blast
~ Surf

I have found that this set gets amazing coverage in OU, scoring super-effective hits on most things. Draco Meteor rapes everyone and their mother, even if its only offering neutral damage. To my knowledge, no pokemon in the game resists the coverage provided here. Although, this is a better set on wi-fi, as Rotom-F can cause some problems (though its fairly uncommon), I still use it on Shoddy to relative success. I dont think of it as a gimmick, and it also supplies bulk.

 

[Staraptor Call]

Heres a good one that I made (works well for me anyway):

Its Super Effective!
Dragonite @ White Herb
252 Hp / 4 Atk / 252 SpA
Lax nature (+Defense, -Speed)
~ Draco Meteor
~ Superpower
~ Fire Blast
~ Surf

I have found that this set gets amazing coverage in OU, scoring super-effective hits on most things. Draco Meteor rapes everyone and their mother, even if its only offering neutral damage. To my knowledge, no pokemon in the game resists the coverage provided here. Although, this is a better set on wi-fi, as Rotom-F can cause some problems (though its fairly uncommon), I still use it on Shoddy to relative success. I dont think of it as a gimmick, and it also supplies bulk.

Relaxed is +Def -Speed, not Lax. And Relaxed isn't the best nature for this Dragonite, since it doesn't help it wallbreak. Dragonite won't be tanking much with Stealth Rock and no Leftovers, even if it only takes NVE attacks. And this Dragonite only gives you one chance to use an attack without the stat loss, making the item slot wasted. Your opponent would switch in their Pokemon that can revenge-kill Dragonite and then you'd have to switch out Dragonite anyway, and stat loss wouldn't matter. Also, this Dragonite's attack power will be low without a boosting item.

 

[wildfire393]

Went on shoddy today and tried out some gimmicks and I have one that worked pretty good (surprisingly).

Lucario - Sleep Talk
@ Leftovers
Inner Focus
Careful (SpD+ / SpA-)
252 HP / 6 Def / 135 SpD / 115 Spe

- Crunch / Bulk Up
- Brick Break
- Sleep Talk
- Rest

This set is for the fun which lets me take advantage of its unique typing. The EVs is simple and its to maximize its bulk from the Special side where most of Dark-type attacks are used. 115 Spe gives me enough to outspeed Jolly Tyranitar, going for the kill before getting the boost. It lets you brawl with Rotom who lack a recovery move. Use Rest to cure your status and fire off atacks with Sleep Talk. Crunch / Brick Break for incredible coverage while Bulk Up could be an alternative (although I never tried it yet).

Sky Uppercut or Cross Chop seem like better options than Brick Break due to BB's way low base power. Alternately, use Aura Sphere + Dark Pulse/Shadow Ball for a stronger Fighting attack and the use of his stronger attack.

The main problem with this is that most of Lucario's normal counters have no problem 2HKOing even a bulky Leftovers spread, making ResTalk not a viable strategy.

 

[EvilMario]

With the decent success of Light Screen Dragonite in OU.. would Torterra utilizing Curse/Light Screen/Synthesis/Seed Bomb be effective in UU? If user has entry hazard, especially Toxic Spikes down, Torterra can stall for quite a while with the bulky moveset, as it powers up Seed Bomb. Probably not the greatest idea, because Grass is not nearly as great a type as Dragon.

 

[Megapants]

With the decent success of Light Screen Dragonite in OU.. would Torterra utilizing Curse/Light Screen/Synthesis/Seed Bomb be effective in UU? If user has entry hazard, especially Toxic Spikes down, Torterra can stall for quite a while with the bulky moveset, as it powers up Seed Bomb. Probably not the greatest idea, because Grass is not nearly as great a type as Dragon.

Synthesis just is not reliable recovery, especially in UU where Rain Dance reigns. And many people carry multiple Ice attacks exclusively for Torterra and Altaria.

And as you mentioned, Grass is not anywhere near as good as Dragon when it comes to Typing. With a ton of opposing grass, poison, bug, and fire types, along with Registeel, you'll be getting walled quite easily. Earthquake might work though, but leaves you helpless against Flying/Levitators.

 

[blasphemy1]

If you sacrifice Blissey then your team would open for a speical sweep
revenge killing only goes so far
ALso If they did leave blissey in then I would have only wasted a Sub not his entire 100% health.
Counter counter prediction starts an endless cycle of prediction that always turns bad for the over predictor

Unlike some people, I use Blissey for aiding my strategy. She is a nice pivote for special pokes, allowing me to Aromatherapy some burned or paralyzed sweepers. I don't use her to simply wall things, so once she has done her job, I am fine taking out a physical threat so that my sweepers may continue to wreck havoc.

BTW, I prefer STAB Wood Hammer in UU than STAB Outrage in OU. Given that it doesn't lock you in, any pokemon resistant to grass will get raped by EQ or Stone Edge. Don't use Torterra like that. Use him as a bulky lead(with Occa Berry), Rock Polisher, SDer(with paralysis support), tank, SubSeeder, or CBer. If you want to use a screen, use it on the tank set. Curse is just terrible on him.

 

[R S E FR LG]

Dusknoir @ Leftovers
Relaxed/Sassy; 252 HP/252 Def (If Sassy) or 252 Sp.Def (If Relaxed)
Spite
Mean Look
Pain Split
Toxic


The point of this set is to cripple the opponent by wasting his moves' PP so that your next Pokemon can come in unthreatened. Spite and Pressure do that. Mean Look is so that your opponent can't escape and you might even force him to Struggle if it stays in long enough (which Pain Split and Leftovers help do), or Toxic could defeat it first. This can really mess up people who use 5 (8) PP moves which are lowered to 2 PP with after one use if Spite is used. 10 (16) PP moves, like Earthquake, can only be used 3 times before depleted completely with Spite (3 times). This is best used against Sweepers who use high power moves with low PP. This is good with a revenge killer on your team who might otherwise not be able to do its job properly.

 

[Ash Borer]

there is a similar spiritomb set, its defenses are lower but with no weaknesses. Mean look is probably a bit too gimmicky.

 

[Pollux-Castor]

Dusknoir @ Leftovers
Relaxed/Sassy; 252 HP/252 Def (If Sassy) or 252 Sp.Def (If Relaxed)
Spite
Mean Look
Pain Split
Toxic

It is much better to Mean Look pass to Dusknoir than have him use Mean Look. Umbreon would partner very well as they cover weaknesses. This won't work because you need to wall them and they will switch out if you do, unless they are extremely stubborn or clicked the wrong button.

It is better to do relaxed with 252def, or sassy with 252sp.def. Sticking to one side allows you to wall them much better, and you may be able to beat Choice Band/Specs users.

 

[blasphemy1]

It is much better to Mean Look pass to Dusknoir than have him use Mean Look. Umbreon would partner very well as they cover weaknesses. This won't work because you need to wall them and they will switch out if you do, unless they are extremely stubborn or clicked the wrong button.

It is better to do relaxed with 252def, or sassy with 252sp.def. Sticking to one side allows you to wall them much better, and you may be able to beat Choice Band/Specs users.

You won't be beating respectable choice specs/band users with that low HP. Even Choice Specs Jolteon, one of the weaker choice users, manages 41.49%-48.97%, a 2HKO with Stealth Rock.

 

[R S E FR LG]

This won't work because you need to wall them and they will switch out if you do, unless they are extremely stubborn or clicked the wrong button.

I was going to Trick a Scarf, but I decided that Lefties + Pain Split would have been better. Not that either are good anyways, huh.

 

[kiryu3000]

I was looking at Gengar's Substitute Special set, but I was thinking if this would be a good similarity:

Pokemon Name: Gengar
Moveset Name: Substitute Sludge Trick
Move 1: Substitute
Move 2: Focus Blast
Move 3: Shadow Ball
Move 4: Trick
Item: Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
Nature(s): Timid
EVs: Ordered 4/0/0/252/0/252

This set plays similarly to the Substitute Special set, but it allows for a method to cripple some walls that might stand in the way of this Gengar set. Substitute provides a method to survive Pursuits, and it can be used to take advantage over a switch. The main point that contrasts this set from the Substitute Special set is that it uses Black Sludge instead of Leftovers. Both items heal the same percentage of hitpoints, but this set takes advantage of the former's negative side effect should a non-Poison type hold it.

When encountering a Gengar, which is a potent special sweeper, one of the most logical actions to take is to switch in a special wall such as Blissey. This is when you use Trick on an opposing Blissey to take their Leftovers and give them your Black Sludge, which would cause Blissey's hitpoints to drop two times faster than Leftover's recovery rate. After this, you can treat this set as the Substitute Special set. Note that the only Pokemon not crippled by this strategy is Tentacruel, and just like any other Trick cripples out there, can take a toll on a variety of other Pokemon, such as Pokemon who require setting up (but be aware of what item you get in return).

 

[chenman333]

^^^ That is actually fairly cool in terms of breaking Blissey down.

Now I'm sure lead Empoleon has been popping around a lot in the past...but I have found this one has been very effective:

Empoleon @ Shucca Berry/Focus Sash/Chople Berry
Torrent
52 Def/104 Atk/100 Spd/252 SpA
Rash
-Stealth Rock
-Surf
-Aqua Jet
-Grass Knot

Pretty cool lead IMO, as it handles most of today's leads and more very well.
Unfortunately it has to be either Rash or Quiet. Rash+100 Spd EVs hits 181 Spd, which is usually enough to outspeed many pokemon, like Metagrosss, Machamp, Tyranitar, etc. However, if you don't mind being slower, you can move the 100 Spd EVs to HP/Def and go with Quiet so that your SpD doesn't drop. Def is too important to drop, as Empy needs to handle some EQs and big fighting attacks.
Here are the top 10:

Metagross: The only one that really can cause trouble. I used to think SR+MM+BP+Explosion ones still existed, but apparently not. They all have EQ+BP these days, so you lose. At least you can get SR up. But if they lack EQ, you can Surf for a 2hko some of the time. You always survive the 1st EQ. You can run Shucca if you want to win though.

Azelf: Surf+Aqua Jet=KO with these EVs against Naive Azelf. Easy to get rid of. If it taunts or attacks, no rocks. Usually it gets those rocks but at least you kill it and can get your rocks up later, since you can usually survive anything.

Jirachi: 2hko with Surf, can set up rocks, doesn't mind the Trick too much. Can handle any attack Jirachi throws at you too, which is very nice.

Swampert: Grass Knot will KO 252 HP/0 SpD 60% of the time, meanwhile Swampert needs to invest a fairly significant amount of Atk EVs in order to KO you with its EQ. With Shucca, you will always win.

Aerodactyl: Easy as hell, Surf+Aqua.

Hippowdon: Surf hurts him very badly, doing 85% minimum and capable of KOing (though only 2%). However, he cannot KO you back either, so you SR, then Surf. If he chooses to kill you, it is likely he isn't going get rocks up for a bit of time. Shucca can help if you don't want to lose too much HP, but you still get KOed after 2 Earthquakes

Tyranitar: Surf will deal quite some pain, however a CB EQ is going to hurt a lot. Quite a lot. Using Shucca however, can save you and if you can outspeed, you win.

Other leads: If you use Chople, you can beat those Infernape leads. Heatran is KOed by Surf if it is Naive. You basically beat Bronzong, as you can set up your rocks then Surf it a bit. Eventually, he will EQ you to Torrent and your Surf can finish him off.

Like most slow leads you will lose to any leads that try and sleep you, like Breloom and Roserade.

Concerning the item: I like Shucca a lot, since EQ is a very common attack and it can help cushion any surprises. However, you can usually survive most EQs anyway, and its those fighting attacks that hurt considerably more. Those Close Combat's are almost always going to put you into Torrent range after Chople, which will often net you a free kill thanks to the power of a Torrent boosted surf.

Sash is a nice mix inbetween. Of course, it doesn't work late game, and Empoleon is not perfect at preventing rocks, he just wins.

Hydro Pump can be used, and it would allow you to always 2hko metagross (and deal a crap load of damage off of a Torrent attack), and it would let you move EVs out of attack into HP/Def. However, its accuracy is quite shaky, as 2 Hydro Pumps hitting is about the same as 2hkoing Metagross with Surf. Still, it could be handy I suppose, if you are feeling a bit lucky. With Hydro Pump, you can stuff 156 EVs into Def, and you can beat Infernape most of the time now. As long as pump hits though.

Overall, I've found this Empy to be extremely awesome but I'm still experimenting.

 

[haunter]

@Danilyu: that set looks like a little situational, but it may work. Just one thought: wouldn't be better to run focus punch over focus blast and some attack EVs? I mean, after you trick your black sludge onto Blissey, she will be forced to use softobiled after a few turns, meaning that you can set up a second sub and freely focus punch her. Also, I'd advise to run that set always in tandem with Magnezone, otherwise Scizor may be a pain.

 

[Arcticblast]

I was looking at Gengar's Substitute Special set, but I was thinking if this would be a good similarity:

Pokemon Name: Gengar
Moveset Name: Substitute Sludge Trick
Move 1: Substitute
Move 2: Focus Blast
Move 3: Shadow Ball
Move 4: Trick
Item: Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
Nature(s): Timid
EVs: Ordered 4/0/0/252/0/252

This set plays similarly to the Substitute Special set, but it allows for a method to cripple some walls that might stand in the way of this Gengar set. Substitute provides a method to survive Pursuits, and it can be used to take advantage over a switch. The main point that contrasts this set from the Substitute Special set is that it uses Black Sludge instead of Leftovers. Both items heal the same percentage of hitpoints, but this set takes advantage of the former's negative side effect should a non-Poison type hold it.

When encountering a Gengar, which is a potent special sweeper, one of the most logical actions to take is to switch in a special wall such as Blissey. This is when you use Trick on an opposing Blissey to take their Leftovers and give them your Black Sludge, which would cause Blissey's hitpoints to drop two times faster than Leftover's recovery rate. After this, you can treat this set as the Substitute Special set. Note that the only Pokemon not crippled by this strategy is Tentacruel, and just like any other Trick cripples out there, can take a toll on a variety of other Pokemon, such as Pokemon who require setting up (but be aware of what item you get in return).

A misprediction would cost you a lot, though. What would be safer is to Sub on the switch.

 

[chenman333]

I suppose you could try a Toxic Orb over Black Sludge? That way Blissey's survivability is just completely gone, and it cannot even hope to stay in against you.

 

[haunter]

I suppose you could try a Toxic Orb over Black Sludge? That way Blissey's survivability is just completely gone, and it cannot even hope to stay in against you.

But this way you'll lose the HP recovery granted by black sludge, before you trick it. Still may work though.

 

[youknowwhoitis]

Too gimmicky just to beat Blissey. You lose HP Fire and your only check to Metagross and Scizor, I'd prefer Expert Belt with Focus Punch and HP Fire, you beat all of your checks in Scizor, Tyranitar, and Blissey, however you still lose to metagross, whom would still beat you, tricked black sludge or not.