np: UU - Higher Ground

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Altho Roserade suffers 4 moveslot syndrome, she can use extrasensory to deal with poison types, getting surprise KO's on mons like Toxicroak. Then only Drapion would wall, unless you want to use hp: ground.

I think the real killer about Roserade is that she can use so many effective sets. She has great SpA, decent bulk on the special side, great base speed, and the movepool to abuse it. Natural Cure with grass typing alleviates all the status flying around and leech seed stall. Besides a dedicated special wall, what really forces out a Roserade? Dugtrio seems like the only check, albeit at the cost of revenge killing.
 
regarding mismagius running a charge beam set I think rotom is better:

1. one of the first things I think when I see a mismagius is "substitute sweeper" -- this means the opponent will respond as if mismagius is an offensive set-up threat which decreases the chance you'll successfully set up. rotom is commonly seen as a scarfer or specs user so my first instinct when seeing a rotom is to go to someone to weaken it or twave it which gives it time to set up.

2. this is probably more important -- the electric subtype means it can set up on one of mismagius's biggest counters, registeel. if your opponent has a registeel and you switch in mismagius chances are registeel is coming out which would spoil any chances it has of charge beaming up. it also comes with a resist to brave bird and bullet punch for what that's worth. i guess rotom's typing and reputation as a scarf/specs user also scares away haze milotic who would otherwise be all too happy to come in on a mismagius. by the time your opponent realizes rotom is a charge beamer milotic is going to take a pretty hard hit just to haze rotom.
 
Vrolok said:
Altho Roserade suffers 4 moveslot syndrome, she can use extrasensory to deal with poison types, getting surprise KO's on mons like Toxicroak. Then only Drapion would wall, unless you want to use hp: ground.

I think the real killer about Roserade is that she can use so many effective sets. She has great SpA, decent bulk on the special side, great base speed, and the movepool to abuse it. Serene Grace with grass typing alleviates all the status flying around and leech seed stall. Besides a dedicated special wall, what really forces out a Roserade? Dugtrio seems like the only check, albeit at the cost of revenge killing.
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Roserade also gets Psychic, which has more power and (I believe) a superior side-effect. After the SpD drop, even Registeel and Chansey will be licking their wounds. And I believe you mean Natural Cure, not Serene Grace. You're probably thinking of Chansey, the only UU who gets both abilities.
 
Son_of_Shadoo said:
Roserade also gets Psychic, which has more power and (I believe) a superior side-effect. After the SpD drop, even Registeel and Chansey will be licking their wounds. And I believe you mean Natural Cure, not Serene Grace. You're probably thinking of Chansey, the only UU who gets both abilities.
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Roserade doesn't learn Psychic, it has to deal with the slightly inferior Extrasensory. And using that moveslot is going to seriously neuter what else you can do, since that takes up a moveslot that would be much better suited for Sleep Powder or Spikes or Synthesis or Substitute or Energy Ball etc etc
 
Really, seeing Roserade being mentioned as a suspect is crazy. People are just getting lazy with their team building. It's walled by the second most popular pokemon in the tier, Registeel, who probably can fit into any team with the sheer number of pokes it can wall, walled by Chansey infititly, and any Sleep Powder attempts you can see from a mile away. Not to mention Drapion and Sp. Defensive Altaria, and any smart player, having switched in their Milotic, will Ice Beam not matter what to nail the obvious switch-in. I'd rather have the bulk of Venusaur, which isn't Pursuit bait.

Honchkrow hasn't been all that great for me, or against me, and I don't even use a solid counter for it, so it doesn't even "sweep unsuspecting teams"

Leafeon are everywhere, and it's so bulky it gets in 2 SD's and then blows up my team. I need to find something for that.

Sp. Defensive Altaria is amazing in this meta. It takes everything up to and including a NP croak Hp Ice, and can just roost it away. Not to mention Natural Cure/Heal Bell and Perish Song to round out a set, and it's crazy hard to take it down.

Mismagius with WoW is very effective, taking out those Krow switch-ins, and late game, a WoW'd Registeel can't break a 252/0 Missy sub with Iron Head, letting you set up Charge Beam/Shadow Ball sweep.
 
I definitely agree with there potentially being no suspects.

Moltres is a pokemon that garnered a bit of support for being suspect last testing round but ultimately fell just a tad short of being voted on so I think maybe that's an issue that could be revisited because i do find at times that Moltres seems a little too good.

Subcharge Rotom is the closest thing UU currently has to broken though. And I'd probably attribute that mostly to people not knowing how to handle it. I've had opponents bring in Registeel as I sub and then proceed to set up SR as I take a shot at getting a Charge Beam boost and still have two more free turns as Iron Head isn't breaking my sub. Definitely not the way to handle Rotom. Once people figure out how to handle it I'm sure it won't be as easy to use, but right now I'll settle for grabbing at least a couple kills every match with it.

Tinted Specs Yanmega is probably my least favorite pokemon to deal with right now. Motherfucker hits like a truck. With another good spinning option you'd figure Mega + spinner would become a bit more popular, which is definitely something I'm hoping doesn't happen because right now my only way of dealing with mega is sr.

ps: regigigigigigas
 
SubCharge Rotom is crazy good, I love it in OU and I love it in UU too, but now that it's been popularized, people will figure out how to deal with it (Lanturn, Gastrodon). Speaking of which, I've notice a spike in Lanturns popularity.
 
Stallion said:
SubCharge Rotom is crazy good, I love it in OU and I love it in UU too, but now that it's been popularized, people will figure out how to deal with it (Lanturn, Gastrodon). Speaking of which, I've notice a spike in Lanturns popularity.
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Haha yeah the specslanturns are everywhere; probably due to thund and his rmt. I've actually seen specslanturn sweeping, but I honestly can't imagine using one with all the fricking roserade's everywhere.
 
jrrrrrrr said:
Roserade doesn't learn Psychic, it has to deal with the slightly inferior Extrasensory. And using that moveslot is going to seriously neuter what else you can do, since that takes up a moveslot that would be much better suited for Sleep Powder or Spikes or Synthesis or Substitute or Energy Ball etc etc
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Are you sure? I could swear Cynthia (in-game) hit me with it... Maybe my mind is playing tricks on me again.
 
Son_of_Shadoo said:
Are you sure? I could swear Cynthia (in-game) hit me with it... Maybe my mind is playing tricks on me again.
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That was, indeed, Extrasensory.

I've also seen more Parafusion Lanturns than everything else, though I've faced Thund's team like 6 times.
 
nizik said:
Sp. Defensive Altaria is amazing in this meta. It takes everything up to and including a NP croak Hp Ice, and can just roost it away. Not to mention Natural Cure/Heal Bell and Perish Song to round out a set, and it's crazy hard to take it down.
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I agree that Sp. Def Altaria is awesome, I've been having tons of success with it on my stall team.

What do you think about Roar over Perish Song? I've been using Roar because it feels like Perish Song just delays the inevitable and almost always ends up getting my Altaria killed whereas Roar deals with a boosted guy immediately, and Altaria can usually take one hit and Roost off the damage later.

I play a ton on the DS and I hate that Heal Bell is XD exclusive, Heal Bell Altaria gets so much milage on my Shoddy team.

EDIT: And Sp. Defensive Altaria can deal with SubCharge Rotom which is a bonus.
 
What EV spreads are you people running on defensive Milotic? I've been trying 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 Spe. The speed is to outrun Heysup's Blaziken, however I don't know if it's still common (have people been using the spread with 184 speed EVs?). The rest is for physical water countering and taking Blaziken Superpowers. I still feel like it's inefficient. Sometimes I want more special attack, sometimes I get outran by Blaziken. There's always something wrong.
 
jrrrrrrr said:
Regigigas is no joke.
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Amen to that. God I can't believe how many times I've been like "Oh shit, RegiGig".

Sub ChargeBeam Rotom seams interesting. However, I think I'll attempt a variation of that set and see how it does and post results later of course.

@Altaria Discush

From my experinces with Altaria if you can help it running both Roar and Perish Song on the same set is definately the best choice.
 
Perish Song is usually preferred on Stall Altaria because it is such a rare and valuable move, and there aren't really any other viable users. Though Altaria also gets Haze which can remove stat boosts whilst not necessarily succumbing to last-Pokemon syndrome.

Anyway, I've found myself playing more NU than UU recently, but from what I've played I agree for the most part with j7r's sentiments. Duggy and Donphan have had a very positive effect on the metagame (and neither of them are the least bit broken), to the point where I haven't noticed any dominant strategy whatsoever. By that I mean that no particular kind of team has a definite advantage overall; it is more rock-paper-scissors than ever, which is a good thing IMO.

I also don't want to see anyone calling for bans under the "well something needs to be banned" mentality. But from past experience I wouldn't bet on it....
 
The only thing I would consider as a suspect is Yanmega.

The reason is that it basically forces offensive teams to either carry a Registeel/Milotic or run an insane amount of priority. There's pretty much no offensive poke that can safely switch-in on Yanmega, take two hits and threaten it back with an OHKO. It just completely destroys one play-style.
 
Dekzeh said:
The only thing I would consider as a suspect is Yanmega.

The reason is that it basically forces offensive teams to either carry a Registeel/Milotic or run an insane amount of priority. There's pretty much no offensive poke that can safely switch-in on Yanmega, take two hits and threaten it back with an OHKO. It just completely destroys one play-style.
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Coupled with Dugtrio, and you're basically forced to run Shed Shed on Registeel as well.
 
For SpD Altaria, the best pread imo is 252 HP/ 216 SpD/ 36 Def. with a +SpD nature. it lets you take a NP Hp Ice from Modest Croak, and not be 2hko'd by the slower Blaziken barring Ice Punch, which is non-sense.
 
Peachfuzz said:
What EV spreads are you people running on defensive Milotic? I've been trying 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 Spe. The speed is to outrun Heysup's Blaziken, however I don't know if it's still common (have people been using the spread with 184 speed EVs?). The rest is for physical water countering and taking Blaziken Superpowers. I still feel like it's inefficient. Sometimes I want more special attack, sometimes I get outran by Blaziken. There's always something wrong.
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If you run Ice Beam, a good speed to shoot for is 212 (56 speed EVs), outrunning Adamant Torterra before a Rock Polish and most slow Blaziken. Of course, Jolly Torterra still outruns you, but they're rather rare. A hefty investment of 180 EVs gets you to 243, 2 points faster than +Attack Honchkrow, and thus 1 point faster than Blaziken who EV themselves to outspeed +Attack Honchkrow.
 
Anyone else thinks Ambipom is a damn big waste as a lead?

It's got so much potential as a late game cleaner. All you have to is get rid of their Regirock/Registeel/Steelix and Ambipom will rape with the standard Fake Out, Return, Pursuit/Payback, U-turn.

In fact, normal types are just too good in the current meta-game I'm using Ambipom + CB Kanga as my main offense force, with support from Donphan and Hitmonlee. Kangaskhan destroys stall now that everybody replaced their Steelix with Donphans with powerfull Choice Banded Scrappy Returns.

I had a Dugtrio originally for those Rock and Steel types, but ended up using Donphan instead. Trapping them isnt of much concern when they are just free switches for Donphan and Hitmonlee.
 
I don't necessarily think that Ambipom is a "waste". Fake Out / U-turn / Taunt / Pursuit Ambipom @ Silk Scarf / Muscle Band is actually one of the best leads I have run.
 
Dekzeh said:
Anyone else thinks Ambipom is a damn big waste as a lead?

It's got so much potential as a late game cleaner. All you have to is get rid of their Regirock/Registeel/Steelix and Ambipom will rape with the standard Fake Out, Return, Pursuit/Payback, U-turn.
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I use the same Ambipom lead set as Stellar, only with Return over Pursuit for more reliable STAB.

And because of its great speed, Fake Out, and ability to U-Turn in and out, frankly I use Ambipom as both my lead and a late-game cleaner.
 
I don't mean its a bad lead, it's just so much better late game. As a lead it really needs Taunt fucking up the coverage completely, so it doesn't really function as a lead and late-game cleaner at the same time.
 
Dekzeh said:
Anyone else thinks Ambipom is a damn big waste as a lead?

It's got so much potential as a late game cleaner. All you have to is get rid of their Regirock/Registeel/Steelix and Ambipom will rape with the standard Fake Out, Return, Pursuit/Payback, U-turn.

In fact, normal types are just too good in the current meta-game I'm using Ambipom + CB Kanga as my main offense force, with support from Donphan and Hitmonlee. Kangaskhan destroys stall now that everybody replaced their Steelix with Donphans with powerfull Choice Banded Scrappy Returns.

I had a Dugtrio originally for those Rock and Steel types, but ended up using Donphan instead. Trapping them isnt of much concern when they are just free switches for Donphan and Hitmonlee.
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yeah kanga is a monster, probably the best cber in uu
 
Alright my speculation in this tier:

Firstly, let me say Donphan is such an excellent addition in this tier. It fits right in, it's not too broken and not too weak. Out of the new UU's, no one expected Donphan to be effective but now its the complete opposite. Dugtrio is very lackluster in this tier imo. Out of the battles I had the entire week, its hard to find Dugtrio. Shed Shell is Dugtrio's counter, and its practically set up bait. People often forget its "ok" Attack stat and its meager defenses, and with that being said, it's too weak to trap major walls. It needs it to be really weak to guarantee a trap n' kill. Overall Donphan is excellent in thier tier but I'm really disappointed in Dugtrio. If anyone has played UU, you'll probably agree with me on this.

The slight increase of Synthesis Venusaur, Torterra, Roserade is pretty crazy. Especially Torterra, which can give stall teams a hard time with Donphan and Milotic as their physical walls. Out of all the Grass types mentioned, Venusaur is really the one that sticks out the most. People utilize Swords Dance set, and its nearly invincible if you don't have the right check.

For the previous comments, I haven't seen any SubRotom's yet except watching Jabba's game once. Speaking of Ghost-types, Mismagius running CM / Sub is almost non existent today. People lean towards Rotom now because of its resistances.

Overall, I think the most broken sweeper for me up to date would be Life Orb Roserade. Very difficult to defeat, capable of scoring 35% with Leaf Storm when you catch it at a low health.

Well thats probably my analysis for uu tier after laddering constantly.
 
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