The use of "inaccurate" moves

I think Legacy Raider puts it well in that you should use the accurate alternative as opposed to the more powerful inaccurate one with the exception of times in which the more powerful one has a chance to get a OHKO / 2HKO that the accurate one could not. Unfortunately, it feels like there are more situations where the higher power one will get you something that the less accurate one couldn't do the same. The example of Fire Blast with Heatran; you will still kill Scizor either way, but with Flamethrower you won't potentially 2HKO Salamence (or OHKO Celebi, and perhaps more examples.) So would you rather have a chance to greatly hinder and/or possibly 2HKO the switch in, or just do the job that it is supposed to do; kill Scizor (and any other threats you intended him to KO with it.)

I could have a team where I would take as many accurate options as opposed to inaccurate options, and another team that did just the opposite. The 'accurate' team would make sure something is done with every time I attack. However, with the 'inaccurate' team, I could be getting KO's I wouldn't have otherwise gotten with the 'accurate' team. I might get a miss or two and lose the game with the inaccurate team, but in the same respect I could have been guaranteed I lost the game in the first place because my moves didn't do enough damage (barring critical hits.)

I personally go with the accurate options as often as possible, simply because I just try and avoid RNG and getting hax'd. I do wonder if a more powerful hit could have decided a game I lost though.
 
It also matters on your targets. I personally use Fire Blast on SpecsTran, because I still have 2 backup counters for Scizor(Gyarados and Rotom). This way, I never really miss the accuracy of Flamethrower.

On something that's going to stay for a while, the accurate option is the superior one, as it will have more PP. On an offensively oriented pokemon, the higher power move is usually preferred for damage output.

But yeah, it's mostly a preference thing.
 
I just want to point out (or at least speculate) that Surf being more popular than Hydro Pump is more than likely because far more pokemon learn Surf than Hydro Pump, like Latias.

I think it should depend on the pokemon being used, and more importantly the rest of your team. If for some reason your team is fairly weak to Scizor, then besides not having a very good team, you sure as hell should go with Flamethrower over Fire Blast. On the other hand if you can afford the miss because you have other pokemon that can deal with Scizor, by all means go for the extra power as its going to be more helpful against other pokemon like the noted Salamence.
EDIT- gah basically what erazor said I should have read his post first =(
 
I wouldn't say having backup coverage for a pokemon eliminates the necessity of hitting. I like to look at worst case scenarios.

Worst case scenario my only means of killing Scizor is Mixmence after Rotom and and Gyarados have been killed. In a scenario where I should win 15/16 times i'm instead losing much more than I should because I opted for Fire Blast over Flamethrower. I like to consider how often using each move is going to change the outcome. How often am I going to lose a match because I missed with Fire Blast? How often am I going to lose a match because Flamethrower didn't provide the necessary power to get a kill that Fire Blast would have. It's really a tough question to answer and can obviously only be answered on an individual basis since the answer is really rooted in personal playstyle. For me I've decided that I much prefer the guaranteed damage than the risk of missing.
 
I almost always go for accuracy over power, but there are definitely those occasions where the power is necessary. For example, I often use Fire Blast on my Choice Scarf Flygon because Flamethrower and Fire Punch don't OHKO Scizor.

However, it certainly depends on your team support. I use Hidden Power Fire Celebi quite often, and I've grown used to the fact that it doesn't come close to an OHKO on Scizor. However, knowing that Celebi is there means that Flygon doesn't need to OHKO scizor anymore. If I had a Hidden Power Ice Celebi, I would bloody well want that OHKO with Fire blast, but the fact that Celebi can handle a weakened Scizor means that Flamethower and Fire Punch are options.

Oh, and I'd like to mention Meteor Mash on Metagross. I guess he hasn't got much else in the wa of options (Iron Head... ehhhhhh)...
 
Accuracy

Yeah, i would definatly go with accuracy over power, because if you think about it, just because the move is weaker, it doesn't mean it's not powerful. If you think about it, all up the powerful move and the accuracy move will do roughtly the same damage because when it misses, the acc one won't and get extra damage. plus you would still be able to easily KO with the weaker move if you have stab, for instance. My Arcanine has specs, flash fire. Now if i send it out, countless times it has taken 3/4ths of an infernapes health with a flamethrower because usually they would switch it in to take the blow, then since i'm usually faster i can do a quick kill, whereas if i had fire blast, if i miss any of those shots, it will have enough HP to take me out with a fighting move so i say accuracy all the way!!!
 
But sometimes the payoff of a power over accuracy move does make up for it and as has been said before, sometimes weaker Pokemon would need that extra bit of power to get the OHKO. If you can deal with the accuracy loss, go for it. Just don't start bitching hax when you lose a match because of it because it was your decision to take the risk.
 
Basically i use the vhpas(very high power attacks) on sweepers like salamence,gengar,goice scarfers. and the mhpas(medium-high power attacks)
on tanks and walls.
 
Damn Game Freak for not giving us a 100% accurate physical rock-type move! Even if said move only had 60 base power I'd still use that on my Steelix over Rock Slide or Stone Edge any day!

When it comes to accurate moves vs inaccurate moves, I say my sweeper is running expert belt or leftovers with the accurate move and wide lens with the inaccurate one, and then I see if the inaccurate one is still more powerful. It almost never is. In fact, the only time it ever was more powerful was when I ran Hydro Pump on my Starmie to 2HKO Rotom-A switch-ins. An unboosted Surf falls short of the 2HKO.
 
Generally, I stick with the more powerful move, unless accuracy is particularly bad (Thunder, Blizzard w/o hail Etc,) as it generally scores more important hits. It does miss much more often, but you should be able to deal with it, or at least call bad hax, like having 5/6 Stone Edge's missing in consecutive turns.

I think a balance is needed though, if you build a team centred around using high-risk high-return moves, it's inevitable that you're going to miss, and pay the price, but if you can keep a midpoint, for example running the lower power move where the superior base power isn't ultimately necessary, the drop in accuracy of the big moves, would become feasible.

What I find interesting though, is how often base 90/95 moves are overlooked, in terms of accuracy. People always class Low-Accuracy moves, as the Fire Blasts and Hydro Pumps, when moves like Leaf Storm and Draco Meteor can be much more devastating when they miss, as the player is usually expecting it will hit, pretty much every time. IMO, these are the moves that are more detrimental, purely down to the fact that the 90/95 accuracy are so often overlooked. More often than not, for example of Meteor Mash, people will be automatically attracted to the high power, and chance of an attack boost, and they won't take into account the drop in accuracy, which could prove costly to them, moreso than the use of Fire Blast, which is commonly known as a relatively inaccurate move.
 
something interesting to note i think is fire blast only "better in the long run" when considering a pokemon being hit from 100% or rather that isn't going to be ko'd by either move when it's used. if a pokemon is weakened enough to be ko'd by flamethrower, at the time of the moves use flamethrower is statistically a better move. i think when comparing the moves people only calculate the maximum damage potential for each which is rarely the case of application in pokemon
 
Precisely what Damanzi said. If either move would get the KO, the "average damage over time" doesn't matter, as both moves would do the same damage. This would make the less accurate, higher base power move inferior in situations of OHKOs or KOing weakened Pokemon. I can't believe that's the first time that's been mentioned in this thread.

Overall, which move to use all depends on what percent of the time the other move would have KOed the opposing Pokemon in one less turn. This can happen based on the extra power changing a 2HKO into a OHKO, or based on a miss doing the same thing. I believe "average damage over time" is an inferior and outdated concept based on games like MMORPGs, where each character heals so much that the last hit barely matters, and misses average out over the course of a single, long battle.
 
Well, a lot of people simply do what the analysis says. The Analysis says they have to run Fire Blast on their Heatran, Stone Edge on their Tyranitar and Surf on their Starmie, so they do so.

I'll have to admit I do this myself, too. It's only after some testrunning that I sometimes switch my moves for a more accurate one, if the misses really seem to be lethal to my team.
 
It's exactly this mentality that leads me to run the following set for Tyranitar:

Tyranitar (M) @ Babiri Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
- Rock Slide
- Fire Punch

Babiritar is used mainly to lure and kill Scizor, and while Stone Edge can do that, Fire Punch does it 100% of the time compared to 80%, while also providing more solid power against Skarmory. Because of that, I'm freed up to use the more accurate Rock Slide, which scores OHKOs on Zapdos at +1, and Salamence / Gyarados at +0 after SR. The set has less power against things like Jirachi and Metagross, which can be a pain sometimes, but all in all it "works" for what I need it to 100% of the time instead of just 80%.
 
I recently started using Scarf Moltres on Shoddy Battle, with Fire Blast. My hit rate with the move is literally under 50%, often missing 2, 3, or even 4 times in a row. Obviously, I switched it to Flamethrower, but then I found myself not doing as much damage as I was hoping for, often not getting kills that I otherwise would have (and it's not just OHKOs/2HKOs that matter, as finishing off a pokemon from ~70% health is also huge for something like Scarf Moltres/Heatran). Basically, all I can do is wait for my luck to improve.
 
It also matters if you're playing doubles or singles. I wouldn't really like Heatwave in singles because Flamethrower does nearly the same amount, but with better accuracy, but in doubles the chance to pwn both pokes and ignore stuff like follow me is worth the risk of missing once or twice here or there. It can really put your opponent in a tough spot. Just my opinion though.
 
Seven Deadly Sins said:
It's exactly this mentality that leads me to run the following set for Tyranitar:

Tyranitar (M) @ Babiri Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Crunch
- Rock Slide
- Fire Punch

Babiritar is used mainly to lure and kill Scizor, and while Stone Edge can do that, Fire Punch does it 100% of the time compared to 80%, while also providing more solid power against Skarmory. Because of that, I'm freed up to use the more accurate Rock Slide, which scores OHKOs on Zapdos at +1, and Salamence / Gyarados at +0 after SR. The set has less power against things like Jirachi and Metagross, which can be a pain sometimes, but all in all it "works" for what I need it to 100% of the time instead of just 80%.
Click to expand...

The downside being that you lose aqua tail. I don't know if its wortyh it because I want aqua tail almost 100% of the time I see gliscor or hippowdon (given that both have recovery).
 
The Plant said:
The downside being that you lose aqua tail. I don't know if its wortyh it because I want aqua tail almost 100% of the time I see gliscor or hippowdon (given that both have recovery).
Click to expand...


I don't know about you but these days I see scizor twice as much as I see gliscor and hippowdon COMBINED.
 
i am probaly going to say what everyone said,but here we go:it really varies on what the pokemon need to do,if its to counter a certain one like heatran VS scizor,then FB is no good,since the pokemon only job is to counter another,but if his job is to take care of a significant amount of pokemons,or try a sweep,then fire blast is better,since you will need all the power you can get,also,miss a fire blast on a scizor when the other move would also ohko is a waste,since FB can miss,when the other cant.
 
Don't forget that many players rely on Scarftran to check Lucario, which is far more potent a threat than Scizor after a Swords Dance. Missing a Fire Blast would mean gg.

Really, though, using low-accuracy moves like Sleep Powder is a bad habit to get into when you want to check something. I played a Quick Stall team in Ubers where the opposing player used a Sleep Powder/Encore/SubSeed Jumpluff to check threats. Well, the first time, I predicted his sleep and went to my RestST Giratina. The second time, Groudon had killed Giratina, and I came in with a Scarfed Dialga on the Jumpluff switch-in. His Jumpluff, having the sun, was far faster. He used Sleep Powder and missed, and Dragon Pulse scored an easy OHKO. He complained of being haxed and I decided to make fun of him for his naivete in expecting 100% accuracy.

High power moves are great on sweepers. But if you're relying on chance to check something, you're playing with fire. Use a redundant check, or expect the occasional hax. It is unfeasible to prepare for crithax (unless dealing with Absol in UU) but it is good practice to have a backup check to something in case you are relying on anything below 90% accuracy (and even then...I've lost games on the miss of Draco Meteor, and won them on the miss of a Spacial Rend).
 
Umbreon Dan said:
Oh, and I'd like to mention Meteor Mash on Metagross. I guess he hasn't got much else in the wa of options (Iron Head... ehhhhhh)...
Click to expand...

I've actually used Iron Head on Agiligross with a King's Rock :) It's a decent change from the usual LO/Leftovers/Lum Berry and the 40% total flinch rate is passable, works like a bulkier flinch jirachi with 1 turn setup instead of being choiced.

IMO this topic would be alot more illuminating with a poll. Accuracy vs power is almost strictly a matter of personal preference, it's not hard to see or argue the pros and cons of either position. Then again most people just copy the movesets from the site since those are what's tried and true.
 
On the flamethrower vs fire blast discussion, I always run flamethrower instead of fire blast. This is probably because I pretty much always run SubHeatran. When considering which move to use, you have to think about this: you paid 25% of your HP for a free turn. You have a 15% chance of letting it go to waste, as their faster sweeper Earthquakes you and leaves you crying.
On the Salamence issue: Salamence has a chance of getting 2HKO'd with Fire Blast. Well guess what? Scizor also has a chance of getting 2HKOd by Fire Blast. When Scizor has a x4 weakness to fire, that's sad. My Heatran carry Toxic, so Salamence isn't too scary for my team anyways. I would prefer a solid 30% over nothing any day. A 100% OHKO on Scizor is always preferable on a Pokemon that is a rock-solid Scizor counter.
 
ARandomDude said:
Salamence has a chance of getting 2HKO'd with Fire Blast. Well guess what? Scizor also has a chance of getting 2HKOd by Fire Blast.
Click to expand...

That might be most wit I've ever seen on smogon outside of Firebot.

On Specstran/LOTran, though, Fire Blast/Overheat would be superior just because the point isn't to check threats, the point is just to blast things.

It makes you wonder, though, where is Hydro Pump on Kyogre/Palkia?
 
I almost always use Fire Blast over Flamethrower, I never use Rock Slide, etc

The reason is because, as someone pointed out, Fire Blast gives you the extra power you need in some scenarios

this is especially true if the pokemon doesnt get Stab on fire moves, then Fire Blast is almost always the route to go

Flamethrower on Salamence just isnt going to cut it

Imagine that you had a scarftran out vs a Bronzong or something, and both are the last pokemon for their teams

Fire Blast will KO bronzong but flamethrower will leave bronzong with like 7% left and you will get earthquaked in return

by using fire blast, ur giving urself an 85 percent chance to win the game

so, my math isnt so good but if I win 5 out of 6 by using fire blast, then i will keep on using it

fortunately, scenarios like these arnt so common, i mean
tbolt vs thunder isnt even close
ice beam and blizzard

and on the other end, Megahorn has the same accuracy as Fire blast, but ur not gonna use megahorn on heracross and will instead opt for Xscizzor or something? Does heracross even learn xscizzor

and then, some scenarios dont even matter, like Aqua Tail vs Waterfall

EDIT: Also it depends on if a pokemon can afford to miss or not. Most Pokemon cant, but one of the more extreme examples is Azelf Fire Blast vs Scizor:
if you miss ur dead
 
@flyingsolo: but it also depends on how much certain pokemon are seen. Bronzong is way more rare now than it used to be. Scizor, otoh, is everywhere.

On Salamence, Flamethrower still easily 2HKOs Skarmory, and Fire Blast just OHKOs it, provided you hit. On something like Flygon (and by extension, Garchomp), you need Fire Blast for the 2HKO, I believe, especially if you don't want to invest anything besides a neutral nature.
 
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